Need some help with upgrading with 2nd HD (error)

Hi all!

Tonight I finally bit the bullet : I've received my IBM 48gig travelstar a figured I'd install it.
So I opened up the player, hesitated somewhat when I saw the warranty seals, broke them, removed the IBM 10gig that was already there.
Put the second HD in it's place like the FAQ states.
Attached the serial cable, created the hyperterminal profile (which worked).
The I uploaded the "car2.builder.upgrade" file to the player, and that's where things turned sour.
The empeg did some stuff, finishing with "finding pump (preparing first HD)" and then produced an error after that : "Bad pump response to device select, occured during stage 0x20"
DAMN!
Oh well, I figured. Maybe it's a DOA drive (I hadn't -heard it spin up till then), so I figured I's upload the 1.03 player software again and re-connect the original 10gig HD.

When I uploaded that 1.03 soft however, that 48gig came alive. The player recognised it so I guess there wasn't something wrong with it after all.

So I tried it again, uploaded the HD builder image. Same thing happed as described above (at least it's consistent...)

So what am I doing wrong here? I'm following the FAQ completely as it's described. I was VERY careful when I removed everything. I'm very sure I didn't damage anything.
(though I know the Empeg is something different, I've been building PC's for more than 8 years now, so I AM somewhat knowledgeable in this area)

Am I missing something obvious here?

HELP!


Riocar 10gig (for now) S/N : 10101747 red

I only had one disk attached at a time, when I uploaded car2.builder, ran through that, and THEN uploaded 1.03 ( again with just one disk attached at a time ). You just then need to add a jumper to whichever HD will be SLAVE.

Sounds like you know what you are doing so maybe you have already tried this ?

- --
Rod ,UK Mk2a Sn:1911 Mk2 64gig S/No:341

There is only one disk attached, the 48gig. I haven't added any jumpers yet, because when I prepare the hd's they should always be master. (according to the FAQ - and it's the same with a PC)

Is it normal that the hd does not spin up during this stage? (when I add the car2.builder?)

Does the HD have to be put on the connector closest to the motherboard, or doesn't this matter? (I have connected it to this one, figuring that was the one the original 10gig was connected to)

Any ideas?

(I will watch this thread for about an hour an replie immediately, thanks!)

Riocar 10gig (for now) S/N : 10101747 red

Check to see if no jumpers means cable select on that hard drive. Maybe that's the problem and you need to force it to master.
Sounds very much like a jumper issue though.

I don't think so. The 48gig is an IBM drive. Those are master by default when there are no jumpers attached to it (I've just checked the IBM site to be sure)
The jumper setting is correct.

Riocar 10gig (for now) S/N : 10101747 red

I used the 30gig IBM drive and had the same issues that are are having...

I think I ended up not using that hard drive image ... it never ever worked for me, I got the same errors you did.

If I remember right, I brought it up under the freshly installed kernel as is .... I might have attempted an fdisk on it, but I don't think I had to...

give it a try and see if you can boot as is at the moment...

--
Rio Car (40Gig) Blue/Red/Green/Amber Face (Looking for 2.0!)
'01 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro

I'll give that a try right now. I'll try installing the developer image and see what happens.

OK, I've just re-uploaded the consumer image 1.03 ('cause that was the one that was on the initial drive in the first place), re-attached the original disk and everything plays a-ok. This proves that there is nothing wrong with the player and that I didn't damage anything.

It just won't work with this new 48gig drive!
Maybe this car2.disk.builder thingie was never meant to be used on such big HD's?

I've actually found that Andygjones on this board posted the exact same error.
SMU speeded to his recue with a home-made procedure, but if possible I's rather not use it. Not because i don't want to but because of the disclaimer on the end.
You can read it here (I want to use the new HD as primary hd and the 10 gig as secondary)

Anybody else got a suggestion?

ps, can I install the developer image over the consumer image without ruining my hd's data?

The builder image has a known bug with drives larger than 30 gigabytes.

There has been some discussion that the empeg team might put up another builder image which solves this problem as part of the 2.0 release, but I am not certain if they will be able to do so right away or not. You have reminded me to prod Mike about it, though, so I will go and do that now.

___________
Tony Fabris

I had problems at the start too. Seems that the first disk builder image I downloaded was corrupt. Downloaded it again and everything went well after that. Oh the empeg was getting stuck at pumping ...(or whatever) and would eventually time out.

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 26GB blue)

Thanks Tony, could you keep me updated on that one?

Derek,
I've read that post you made, but it's not the same error. If I remember correctly you got a 0x10 error, and mine's a 0x20.
But also, I've tried re-downloading . I'm willing to try anything!
Thanks anyway!

So it seems my best bet is to wait for v2.0 which should come with a new disk.builder.upgrade file? I guess I could do that, or one of you kind people may guide me through the manual process step by step. (I don't know *** about Linux, but I do have years of dos experience, so I don't think it's that hard)

Thanks!

Riocar 10gig (for now) S/N : 10101747 red

How about trying Sven's manual procedure you are refering to, but insead of creating just music partition, replicating partition structure of your old disk? Linux fdisk is as easy to use (and easy to destroy data with ) as its DOS counterpart...

Of course, to apply the complete SW image to the new disk you should reinstall it as primary after partitioning it, but you intended to do that anyway.

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Well, I want to do that, but I don't know how. I'm not familiar with the Linux commands.
Also, are those commands integrated into the player or does it need 1.03 developer version of the software to do that?

The next question is then : can I install the developer version of 1.03 on top of the consumer version? I need the developer version for the access to the commands, but I don't want to risk ruining everything on the drive. Well, not yet anyway. I want to clean it entirely when this procedure has ended, but not as yet.

If I understand you correctly, you advise to :
use Sven's procedure by :
1) adding the 48gig as a slave to the 10 gig
2) booting from the 10 gig
3) fdisking the 48gig after switching disks (in software)
4) i should the configure the slave disk as a primary disk, so that I then in fact have TWO primary disks on the same chain. (I know this is possible in dos, but does this work in Linux?
5) format the 48gig in 'primary' mode
6) turn power off, remove the 10gig, jumper the 48 gig to master. Applie 1.03 to the 48gig (now master drive)
7) When finished, jumper the 10gig to slave and add as the secondary drive.

Is this correct?

Also, when all else is finished, Is there an easy way to erase everything off the 10gig drive, without going through the entire procedure of formatting and reloading the 1.03image onto it? I just need it to be empty.

If there's not, then I'll just go through the entire procedure again for the 10gig. OR I'll give that HD builder another try. According to Tony it should work OK for HD's smaller than 30gig.

Riocar 10gig (for now) S/N : 10101747 red

Greetings!

I installed two 48GB Travelstars. I did not run into too much of a problem... Let's see...

I agree that there may be bugs with the builder software. One comment, though, is that I did not have any problem with it. What bugs there are, I do not know, but I have not seen any yet. I would like to get an official builder that is large drive ready, though.

I do remember trouble with the builder, but of getting a bad copy. The one I downloaded seemed to have problems, so I downloaded a fresh copy, and it worked fine. I have a copy that I know worked - I keep a series of tools on the music partition, so I can reinstall at need. The builder is one of them. I can post or email if you need it.

I strongly recommend you use the builder, if possible, over manually creating partitions. Especially if you are not very familiar with Linux. It will do some disk checks and burn in for you automatically.

You are correct in doing one drive at a time. No jumpers for the IBM is "master", so the cable position should not matter. When I did mine, it was in the position nearest the controller on the cable.

I did not notice anything with the drive spin. Sorry. I would assume it should be spinning, though.

As to wiping out the old drive, if you want it completely clean you can wipe the partitions. If you want to just remove the music files, just delete everything in the /fids directory and resync.

You can load developer or consumer over each other as needed. It will not affect the music partitions.

Give me a shout if you run into problems or would like that version of the builder.

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (96GB Smoke)
SN# 030103046 (10GB Blue - Emergency Spare)

Yeah, another possible cause for pump errors is a bad "upgrade" file.

If you get a pump error, definitely re-download the file with GetRight before assuming it's a bug.

___________
Tony Fabris

Well, almost...

Install developer image (you can install consumer and developer images one over another as many times as you wish; the only thing that will disappear are your hacks in root partition). The only disadvantage of not having the developer image all the time is slightly less memory available to the player for caching.

Install your new disk as slave.

Run fdisk /dev/hda, type p to obtain the partition table listing, write it down, then q to quit without saving. (Be careful: /dev/hda is your first disk!)

Now run fdisk /dev/hdc (that is, repartition the new disk) and replicate partition structure of your old disk. 'Excess' space should be allocated to partition 4, as it is going to be mounted as the music partition. fdisk has m command that displays help. Note that Sven recommended making partition 4 only. I suppose this was just because it is a bit simpler, and secondary disk doesn't use others (as yet).

As per Sven's checklist make filesystem on partition 4 (mke2fs /dev/hdc4), but also on partitions 2 and 5 (i.e. all Linux partitions).

Prepare swap partition (mkswap /dev/hdc6).

Mount the new music partition (mount -n -o rw /dev/hdc4 /drive1).

Create necessary directories there (cd /drive1; mkdir fids; mkdir var)

Copy files from /drive0/var to /drive1/var (cd /drive0; cp -R var /drive1/var)

Remount read-only (ro)

Reboot looking at serial console output. Both disks should be recognised and both music partitions mounted.

Remove your first disk, mount new one as master.

The unit won't boot. Apply development image. Reboot. You should now have an empty, functioning empeg.

Add your old disk as slave. Reboot. You should see both disks and your old music.


Now, the part of these complications is due to your wish to have new disk as primary, and the old one as secondary. If it is OK to have 48GB unit as secondary, Sven's instructions are adequate (or, if you want to be on the safe side, mine up to first reboot).

Compare this to Sven's instructions and try to catch my errors (they are bound to crop up here and there ). Also, let's give Sven, Frank, Brian, guys@empeg and others time to spot any mistakes before actually doing this, since a typo can lead to, say, wiping out your music...

Good luck!

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

OTOH, heed Paul's advice and try whatever you can to make builder work...

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

pgrzelak :

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate it! I would very much like it if you could email me that build that worked for you. I've sent you a private message and also a small email with my email adress. Thanks!

Tony,

I've tried re-downloading with getright. Didn't do much good though. Same error. So I guess that online file IS no good. Or at least no good with HD's > 30gig. (I've only tried it with my 48gig)

Bonzi,

Thanks so much for all that info! I'll wait for Paul to send me that file, and if that also fails I'll try what you're suggesting. It doesn't look too hard. Much like it would be in dos, except for the mounting part.
I will take you up on your advice however and let other check what you've wrote. Better safe than sorry, and I'm not in THAT big a hurry to get this going.

But what do you mean by "Sven's instructions are adequate (or, if you want to be on the safe side, mine up to first reboot)."
What do you mean by that? Does this mean I won't be able to use the 48gig as master and the 10gig as slave?

Thanks all!



Riocar 10gig (for now) S/N : 10101747 red

I think i had the same problem when adding an IBM 30GB disk to mine. It turned out that the builder software had actually got as far as creating the partitions before giving the error. i just formatted and mounted it and it worked fine.

RioCar 10GB RGB - can never decide

Greetings!

I just did a binary diff between the file I used and one I just downloaded. They were identical. It must have just been a glitch in the download. I can still send the file, if you would like, but I do not think it will matter.

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (96GB Smoke)
SN# 030103046 (10GB Blue - Emergency Spare)

But what do you mean by "Sven's instructions are adequate (or, if you want to be on the safe side, mine up to first reboot)."
What do you mean by that? Does this mean I won't be able to use the 48gig as master and the 10gig as slave?

Exactly. If you follow Sven's instructions, 48G disk will have to be slave (and it also assumes that software will never use partitions other than hdc4 - music partition - from the slave disk; I think this is pretty safe assumption: otherwise, there would have to be separate versions of SW for single- and dual-disk empegs). If you want to be able to run the new disk as primary, you have to build all those additional partitions (in correct order, types and sizes). Finally, to actually use it as primary, you have to upload consumer or development software image to it.

BTW, why are you insisting on using it as primary disk? Is it going to be the only disk in the system? If so, then you should move everything in /driveX/fids (tunes, playlists and their tag files) from old disk ti the new one.

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Hi Bonzi.

I can't find any mistake in your instructions. Just a minor addition I would like to make: You don't need to format all "linux" type partitions, just the music partition, all others are formated by the upgrade process (i.e. application of a .upgrade file) or actually: simply overwritten completely by an ext2 formated partition image.
The /dev/hda2 and /dev/hdb2 partitions are currently not used at all, at least not by the original software.

cu,
sven

proud MkII owner (12GB blue/green/smoked, was #080000113 is #090001010)

Thanks. I forgot that installer simply uses an equivalent of dd on root partition.

One minor point, though: you mention /dev/hdc as second disk in your original manual installation recipe, and in this post /dev/hdb. I see from my MkII boot sequence that it expects second drive on /dev/hdc. Was it /dev/hdb on MkI?

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Hi Bonzi.

No, it is actually /dev/hdb on the MkII, but there is a symlink (actually many of them) in /dev/ that maps the old /dev/hdc (that was used on the MkI) to the correct /dev/hdb file(s). Or equivalently there might just be duplicates of the /dev/hdb* files. I don't have my empeg here at the moment, so I can't check to make sure.
Remember: The MkII uses a single channel IDE controller while the MkI used two channels. /dev/hdc is the first drive (master) on the second IDE channel, while /dev/hdb is the second drive (slave) on the first channel.
So, in general, /dev/hdc works on both, MkI and MkII, while /dev/hdb only exists on the MkII.

cu,
sven (122 posts to go)

proud MkII owner (12GB blue/green/smoked, was #080000113 is #090001010)

Mmm. This may very well be the case. I'll give that a try now.

If I get the commands right, all I should do is format partition 4
mke2fs /dev/hda4

and then mount the thing :

mount -n -o -rw /dev/hda4 /drive0

correct?
(I'm just guessing here)


Riocar 10gig (for now) S/N : 10101747 red

Interesting... ls -al /dev/hd* on my single-drive MkII yields only /dev/hda (3, 0), /dev/hdc (3, 64) and their partitions 1-9. No /dev/hdb, no symlinks, and only two device number ranges: 3, 0-9 and 3, 64-73.

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Hmm,

From /usr/src/linuc/Documentation/devices.txt (transfered to a nice HTML table):

major	type	minor	usage
3	block		First MFM, RLL and IDE hard disk/CD-ROM interface
		0 = /dev/hda	Master: whole disk (or CD-ROM)
		64 = /dev/hdb	Slave: whole disk (or CD-ROM)
			For partitions, add to the whole disk device number:
		0 = /dev/hd?	Whole disk
		1 = /dev/hd?1	First partition
		2 = /dev/hd?2	Second partition
		...
		63 = /dev/hd?63	63rd partition
			For Linux/i386, partitions 1-4 are the primary partitions, and 5 and above are logical partitions. Other versions of Linux use partitioning schemes appropriate to their respective architectures.

22    block       Second IDE hard disk/CD-ROM interface

                      0 = /dev/hdc          Master: whole disk (or CD-ROM)

                     64 = /dev/hdd          Slave: whole disk (or CD-ROM)

                Partitions are handled the same way as for the first

                interface (see major number 3)

Now what that means is that the /dev/hdc* files on a MkII device actually refer to the kernel driver for /dev/hdb (or in other words, to the kernel driver for the second drive on the first IDE channel).
What makes me wonder though is that your device does not have the /dev/hdb* files on it, because mine does. I was at least able to use "fdisk /dev/hdb" when I had a second drive installed in my empeg (it sadly failed shortly afterwards). I might have added some device files by myself though at some point of the upgrade process.

cu,
sven (121 posts to go)

Anyway, device numers are OK, and boot-time SW seems to try to use device filenames that are really there.

(Interesting: your HTML was all over the page in normal thread view, but neatly formatted when replying; sigh, another BBS SW bug...)

Thanks!


Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Hi.

(Interesting: your HTML was all over the page in normal thread view, but neatly formatted when replying; sigh, another BBS SW bug...)

Might be that you happened to hit the reply button just after I edited my post to fix the formatting.

proud MkII owner (12GB blue/green/smoked, was #080000113 is #090001010)

Still garbled in normal thread view. Perhaps some kind of 'interference' with my 'empeg large fonts' display preference... Never mind, the mail with it is quite readable...

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Andygjones was correct. The partitions were made by the disk builder before it showed the error.

It was only a matter of formatting the music partition and creating the fids directory.

I've had a huge amount of help from pgrzelak. He guided me patiently step by step though the process.

Again, thanks A LOT Paul!

It's now only a matter of uploading 46gigs of Mp3s to the player. That should keep it occupied for a fair amount of hours...

Riocar 58gig (48gig + 10gig IBM travelstar) S/N : 10101747 red

Before you do the upgrade...

It's best to format with:

mke2fs -i131072 -m0 -s1

....this uses less inodes (it doesn't need them), no root reserved space, and a sparse superblock table (fscks take less time). This is what the builder does.

Hugo

Greetings!

No problem at all!

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (96GB Smoke)
SN# 030103046 (10GB Blue - Emergency Spare)

Cool! Could you put that in the Repair Guide under development? Great piece of information.

Can we get an updated builder, also???

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (96GB Smoke)
SN# 030103046 (10GB Blue - Emergency Spare)

Good to know Hugo, but the formatting has been done now, and I'm already uploading the mp3's onto the unit. It's already been busy for 11hrs now, and it's almost done. I have no intention of reformatting now! I may loose a small amount of space that way, but I don't really care. I still got more than 8 gigs left, which leaves me with PLENTY of breathing space!

The info is good to know for future use. But maybe by then we'll have an updated disk builder?

Riocar 58gig (48gig + 10gig IBM travelstar) S/N : 10101747 red

Any word on an updated builder image yet? Maybe my copy is old, but I can't seem to run the builder on my new 48gb drive. I'm going to try Hugo's advice, but I'm worried that other issues might pop up...

Also, a note of this might be needed in the Disk Upgrade Guide... ?

The builder images linked from the FAQ are the latest ones that should work fine on your 48gb drive. They are clearly labeled as old and new at the site.

If you can't run the builder image on your 48gb drive, I would suggest that you're either using the wrong builder image, or something else is amiss.

Greetings!

Correct. The updated builder worked fine on the 48s I had and the 60s I currently use. No problems at all.

The problem with the old builder was that it didn't work with disks bigger than 30gig on a Mk2a. (it did work on a Mk2 though).

This has all been resolved with the new builder.

This is just crazy.... I've formated my hard drive and changed computers, but somehow I had the old builder on my computer! I never noticed it because I only had used up to 30gb drives before. w e i r d. haha

thanks guys!

Hey, these kind of things happen. Glad it worked!