Ok, my empeg needs some new music. I have about $50 worth of replay certificates to spend, and am open to suggestions on how I should spend them.

Overall, I like a lot of the music in the Paulway techno mixes, various popish/rock artists, some heavier music, and bits of classical as well. So, feel free to suggest.

Current enjoying The Eels' Shootenanny

Well, if you don't already have Moving Pictures . . .

Someone you may not have heard of is David Wilcox. His album Big Horizon is the most played CD on my Empeg. You have to like folk music, though.

Some of my favorite albums of late include Interpol's Turn On the Bright Lights, Longwave's The Strangest Things, and Sparta's Wiretap Scars.

I know I've suggested it on the board before, but I'm still listening to it regularly, and I'm seeing the band in July for the second time this year:

Rilo Kiley ~ The Execution of All Things

I LOVE THIS ALBUM. But hey, not everyone will like it. They're one of the groups on upcoming Saddle Creek label. I'm not too much of a fan of the other artists, but Rilo Kiley are just fantastic.

Puressence - 'Walking Dead'
Doves - 'Last Broadcast'

Doves' first album 'Lost Souls' is cracking too and well worth a listen.

I strongly recommend Lemon Jelly - Lost Horizons.

Oh, and I also tend to get an album and listen to it non-stop for a week or two. My current round-the-clock listening consists of:

The Flaming Lips ~ The Soft Bulletin

I think that between now and two weeks ago, the tracks on this album have reached at least 15 plays on my empeg

Interpol's Turn On the Bright Lights,

Yours is maybe the third mention of this that I'd seen, so on a lark I put it on reserve at the library, and in the time before it showed up I heard one track that got my attention on the radio.

Well, I've had it for two weeks now, and, while most of it isn't my cup of tea, I am still really hooked on what might be the simplest cut -- Untitled. So here I am in the classic quandary -- buy an LP for one song?

Must get a Mac, eh?

How about Creed!

/me fans the flames...

If you like Stand up Comedy,
Dane Cook is releasing a new CD worldwide on July 22nd that was previously only available on his website and at his shows.

He is the funniest stand-up comedian right now.

-=- Warning -=-
He uses a lot of vulgar language, especially the F-Word.

I love Dane Cook. I would say that there are funnier out there. Mitch Hedberg is fantastic, and David Cross's album is a must-have for angry people , but Cook is hilarious too

it may be too late! well, maybe you happened to buy it anyway. highly recommended = spoon - kill the moonlight. skip no tracks . . . quality for start to finish. check allmusic.com for more info. indie-pop beauty.

Ok, to report back, I picked up:

Interpol ~ Turn On the Bright Lights
Sparta ~ Wiretap Scars
Rilo Kiley ~ The Execution of All Things
Doves ~ Last Broadcast

Overall, I have enjoyed the Doves and Interpol. Sparta is still the active playlist, and seems to be more rockish then the other two. Still deciding what I think about it, but so far it's pretty good. Rilo, not really an entire album I enjoyed. The last parts on a few of the songs were weird, and didn't seem to really fit.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'll keep the others for a later time, as I am mostly happy by the 4 CDs that I picked from the list.

Damn. Sorry

The good news is I just though of someone who would probably like it, so I'll give it to them for their empeg.

Two of my suggestions, huh? You should really think more about taking my word for anything.

Seriously, though, I think this is the exact reason music sharing is good. If you could have just listened to Dignan's copy of that Rilo Kiley album, you'd need not have wasted your $15 on it. Or maybe you'd have been inclined to like something that you thought you wouldn't.

See, I think we're (mostly) all friends here, and letting friends borrow music you've got is part of American (if not worldwide) culture, and I don't see anything wrong with that. If we were closer, I'm sure I'd have let you borrow my albums (including the Longwave one, which after seeing your impressions of the other albums, I have the feeling you'd like more than the Sparta album -- it's more mellow), and the internet allows me to do that without needing to be physically close. And it's not like either of us would gain anything, anyway, as I hardly ever touch my CDs once they're on the empeg, and I trust you enough to buy it yourself if you thought you'd buy it after hearing a CD you'd have to return to me.

Anyway, rant done.

I totally agree with everything you're saying. "Try before you buy" is good for everyone involved because it allows the buyer to spend money more effeciently and therefore be more pleased with the product. This, in turn, is good for the record companies because it means happier customers.

But it's worse for ``musicians'' who should have chosen a different field. Who are the same ones that don't want for folks to pay for and download songs individually.

This, in turn, is good for the record companies because it means happier customers.

...as if they care...

But it's worse for ``musicians'' who should have chosen a different field.

Or maybe were in the correct field but should have gotten out a while ago . . .

The last few comments in this thread have me thinking about the future of the album in modern music. Is the concept of an album still relevant in a day and age when people want to buy single songs? I don't know a whole lot about the history of recorded music, but I am reasonably sure that the single came first (on 78RPM and 45RPM records) and the album came later (on "LP" records.) If I'm wrong about this, then please correct me.

Anyway, one of the reasons I've heard cited for artists not wanting songs to be downloaded individually is a fear that the whole idea of an album as an artform will go the way of the 8-track tape. This begs the question: How many albums really have a cohesive musical or lyrical theme these days? And even for albums which don't have a discernable theme, is the idea of combining and arranging songs on an album a good idea from an artistic point of view? Clearly, some songs on an album are going to be hits, and others aren't. Will the disappearance of the album hurt music in the long run by putting even more pressure on musicians to make "hit" records? The album allows musicians to "sneak in" some more experimental songs which might not have as much hit potential... With people buying individual songs, are record comapnies going to waste time recording and producing individual songs that might not sell?

This is, to me, a very interesting concept. Were albums just an outgrowth of the physical limitations of the distribution media (records, tapes, CDs) or do they serve another artistic purpose? And as a follow-up, do the record companies and musicians actually have a point when they show a reluctance to sell songs as individual units, rather than as albums? Of course singles have been available at an inflated price for a long time on tape and CD, but with things like Apple's iTunes, it seems there's a coup going on where listeners want individual songs cheap. Is this good for music?

Is the concept of an album still relevant in a day and age when people want to buy single songs?

Is that really common? I deal in whole albums, only, which is typically why I end up buying things. I also tend to shy from compilations. There may be only one song on the album I want to hear, but the thing is, I might someday care about more, and it's better to have it now, available...

but with things like Apple's iTunes, it seems there's a coup going on where listeners want individual songs cheap. Is this good for music?

Probably not. Even now there have been hits which were late coming, or songs with cult popularity which weren't hits. I'm not sure that will still happen.

To touch only a few of your points, my thought is that the hit single is just a marketing technique for selling albums. As a consumer, I prefer albums, as I'm likely to be more interested in the stuff that a radio station would never play. That being said, I can understand the desire of some consumers to just want to buy a single, especially at a reasonable price. I remember when I was younger and you could still buy singles at the local record store on cassette, 45, and even, occasionally, CD form, they cost about 1/3 to 1/2 the price of the album, so it made sense to me to just get the album and hope that there would be one or two more songs on there that I'd like. Of course, it helps that I usually have the preternatural sense to spot a single that has nothing else good on the album. The last time I was wrong about this (to my knowledge) was with Fastball and their album All the Pain Money Can Buy, about which I had come to that conclusion based on their first single off the album, but then they released a second which was also good. It turns out that the rest of the album is crap; they just happened to have two good singles instead of the more usual one.

Anyway, I know that with artists that produce good albums, I tend to prefer the non-single tracks more, and I don't want to see that go away. On the same note, it might help the one-hit wonders to be able to effectively sell individual songs, as I think many folks lose their taste after buying the album and finding that they only want to listen to the one song. If that's the only song they've got, then the desire for more might linger until they can produce another good song.

I find that good albums are cohesive these days. Maybe not so much as Dark Side of the Moon, etc., but stll a good amount. However, I think this is due to the fact that it's all made at one time with one producer and engineer than the similar artistic merit of the music behind it. Not that that's inherently invalid, but I usually find albums to be more entertaining to listen to than random songs. Three minutes isn't enough to cure me of my fix for whatever; I usually need 45 minutes or so. I also think that there's a real art in song placement on an album. The songs may not have a lot of inherent interrelation, but the pacing and flow from one song to the next can make or break an album for me. Also note that a lot of the big singles acts albums are an inchoerent mess, even if most of the songs themselves are good, and I think that's due to the mishmash of different production styles, as almost every song has a different producer/engineer credit from the others.

Personally, I also hate it when bands release songs that are only available in a specifc, non-album manner. I only have so much money to spend on music, and in the choice between buying something new for $15 versus spending $8 on a bunch of stuff I already have plus one new song, the new wins every time. Maybe this is the way that bands could release individual non-album songs -- have me download them for $1. I could do that.

I'm sure I've got more to say. I'll come back later.

For a local artist nothing beats having a CD for people to buy when they’re “in the moment”. I think it will be a long time before we go totally digital, and even the musicians are going to have physical copies of their wares. Add to this the simple economy of scale to recording an album vs. 10 separate “singles” and I think the “album” concept will persist in at least some form.

my thought is that the hit single is just a marketing technique for selling albums

I think Tony's point is that this is the way it is now, but in the past and possibly in the future, media formats will yield a more single oriented market.

Yes, Tony, that history is correct, as far as I can remember. And dbrashear, I have the same listening habits. I only listen to whole albums, and stay away from singles and compilations.

It's my impression that artists and groups create albums as a part of the art of making music. It doesn't have to be a concept album, but most of the time there is a logical flow of tracks throughout the disc. Perhaps the most basic pop artists don't do this (the boy bands don't even write their own music, so how could they?), but when I listen to Superunknown by Soundgarden, an album over 70 minutes long, I want to listen to it as a whole.

I tend to think that a shift towards a singles market is bad for music. Like someone said, the "filler" tracks can sometimes be your favorites, or even prove to be great hits ("No Rain" wasn't the first or second choice for Blind Melon).

The other thing I wonder is how you deal with live recordings. I don't want to have to piece together a bunch of songs from every which-way in order to get a full concert off of iTunes or something.

Ah boy I'm rambling again. What do I know, nobody even listens to or likes the same music I do

This begs the question: How many albums really have a cohesive musical or lyrical theme these days?

As a side to this thread... I just picked up the new The Mars Volta album (Omar and Cedric of At the Drive-In's new group). The entire album is Cedric's interpretation of what he thinks his friend is experiencing while in a coma after a failed suicide. Pretty cohesive, and highly recommended, especially if you were an At the Drive-In fan.

Out of curiosity, have you listened to that Sparta album (they're the others from At the Drive-In), and, if so, what did you think? I was surprised how different it was from AtDI, but I happened to like it a lot, even more than AtDI, as it turns out, but I can see how an AtDI fan might not like it at all.

Yeah, i actually liked the Sparta stuff a lot as well. Part of the reason ATDI split in the first place was because they wanted to go in different directions, and that absolutely shows with the two resulting bands. The more emo soft style of Sparta against the more experimental mish mash of The Mars Volta. I like them both... very talented groups. Sparta isn't anywhere near as good live however... i mean energy wise. Musically, great, but they definitely aren't ATDI on stage... but then again, most of the insanity that ATDI presented on stage was all Cedrick and Omar anyway. Some of the best live shows i've ever seen.

The more emo soft style of Sparta

Hmmm. I'd hardly call them soft. There's definitely that emo styling still to the song, but it rocks a lot more than any AtDI album ever did. Maybe you meant something else by soft -- non-experimental?

Unfortunately, I never saw any shows.

Question: what do you guys think of Dashboard Confessional?

I haven't heard a whole album, but the videos I've seen were a little bland, but not offensively so.

I see a lot of good responses to my questions, but I think everyone's approaching it from the "based on my listening habits" or "the artists I like to listen to" angle. But what about the population at large? Since we all know this boils down to dollars and cents, what if the pay-per-single mechanism becomes more profitable?

True, artists nowadays go into the studio to record an album, though I think a lot of "fudging" goes into that process.. A lot of times, an old track will find its way onto a new album, and bands will often record two or three other songs at another studio a few months later to "fill out" an album. The album is also the vehicle for creating live tours, but that could evolve into a "we tour after we've released enough singles to generate interest" process, or even "we release 10 singles at one time and tour on the strength of those" process. I guess my point is that there are other logistical reasons why the album concept works, but none of them seem like showstoppers.

For instance, in response the "same producers and engineers" angle, wouldn't it behoove record companies to put out singles first, to find out which producer/artist combinations yield profitable tracks, and then keep going to the well with that combination?

I totally agree with the art of song placement, even on non-concept albums. And I personally am with all you guys who are defending the concept of the album as art... I just think that the artistic angle is the ONLY angle that's really holding it up. Well, that, and the big labels' refusal to ever try anything new... But really, it's one of those "what's old is new again" things, because music started out with singles... I was just seeing if anyone else thought that electronic distribution might be signaling a return to those days.

I, for one, was not applying my personal listening habits to the entire population. I agree with what you're saying, I was just stating my concerns based on how I listen to music. I don't like how any of it is going.

Well, I hope they aren't indicative of what all emo is like, because I saw them in concert (why they were opening for Beck I'll never know), and bland was certainly the word I would use, except I thought it was pretty offensive.

Oh well, a friend of mine promises me there are some good emo groups. I'll believe that when I hear it.

Apparently The Used are labeled as emo. I think they're pretty excellent.

Okay, in the style of the gentleman pictured in my avatar, I seem to have missed a memo regarding this "emo" music. I've heard people mention it, and knew it was associated with punk in some way, but what elements make up "emo" music? I did some homework on AMG's emo page which has done nothing but confuse me more. The most confusing part for me was their notion that Sunny Day Real Estate's early albums are considered defining recordings for the emo style... I own both of their first two albums, and just consider them alternative/pop rock albums. What makes them emo? The AMG page mentions a bunch of tangible elements that I can find in many other styles of music... So is this just another case of someone inventing another style of music to fit around a somewhat arbitrary group of bands that they like?

All I know about it (or was told) is that emo is short for "emotional."

All I know about it (or was told) is that emo is short for "emotional."

Ah! So finally someone has been clever enough to combine emotions and rock music! What a superb idea! I better go dig into those artists some more.

im way late jumping into this but.. some albums ive been listening to lately are

My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult - The Reincarnation of Luna
review
Hate Dept. - Technical Difficulties
amazon reviews

when suggesting these albums i must keep in mind that not much of the music i listen to ever gets radio play, so it may not be what your into after all. meh, thats what makes us human i guess.

Apparently sometimes it can go wrong. That band I was talking about is pretty bad. The guy (I think it's one guy) seems to combine random words to make the songs sound more emotional. My personal favorite is "Screaming Infidelities." Wow.

I was just going to give a couple more examples, but the entire album is great:

1. Swiss Army Romance
2. The Best Deceptions
3. Remember to Breathe
4. The Good Fight
5. The Sharp Hint of New Tears
6. So Impossible
7. The Places You Have Come To Fear The Most
8. Turpentine Chaser
9. Living In Your Letters
10. For You To Notice
11. The Brilliant Dance
12. Screaming Infidelities
13. Saints And Sailors
14. Again I Go Unnoticed
15. Hands Down


Like I said, I've been assured that there are better bands than this out there, but I was led to believe that while other bands can sometimes fall into the category of emo (I wouldn't have picked Sunny Day...), Dashboard Confessional is all emo. I mean, just look at this guy. He's trying to get the ladies.

Good points Tony. There are some other factors to keep in mind here as well: Increasingly the record companies are loosing control of this business, and it’s not just due to mp3s. I am working on an album right now that we are recording in my best friend’s spare bedroom, and the quality is absolutely stunning. Now granted he has quite a bit of hardware, but the barrier to having a quality studio is MUCH lower than it was even ten years ago. Why does this matter? Well, the truth is that you can get a good recording for much cheaper now, which makes you start wondering: what do we need the record companies for anyway? Oh right, they can get you played on the radio. But see, this is becoming less of a factor too. I’ve scoured mp3.com and found a lot of really great independent stuff as well as even more really terrible stuff, but the point is I don’t have to waste time listening to DJ’s and commercials to find good bands. So maybe being on the radio isn’t such a great big deal anyway. So soon we may be able to cut record companies out of the equation all together (not that they won’t still exist, but possibly they will become more “optional”).

If this all happens the way I think it will, then we may end up seeing a lot of “singles” getting promoted on the radio and becoming “one-hit-wonders.” And “albums” may bite the dust. But then we’ll get something else entirely. For those who just record their own high-quality homegrown stuff (and like I said, the technology is almost here), they’ll just start putting out a TON of stuff with no intention of ever getting “single” type radio play. They may not have “albums”, but you won’t have to worry about not getting the occasional “experimental” track. In fact, what you’ll probably see is the cutting out of a lot of the “single” garbage that bands put out just to get noticed (then again, maybe not. Even on the Internet something has to point you in the direction of a band). The point remains that people will just be able to record whatever they want and stick it out there.

So I think that you might be right about the death of the album. But I don’t think it will be a bad thing. The only thing we’re going to really need is a way to filter through all the stuff that’s about to be available. It used to be we could rely on the record companies for that, but they’ve forgotten their purpose. Now something else will have to rise up, whether is like mp3.com or something I haven’t conceived of. Sorry to ramble, but that’s where I think this is all going. But who can tell at this point?

in general, i think the market today doesn't have the attention span for whole albums.

25 years ago, when the album was king, there were technological factors that made it more likely that you'd listen to the whole album, in order, each time you played it. how easy was it to skip a track on a turntable or tape deck if you didn't like it? not very.

after several listens, maybe some of those tracks would grow on you in a way you didn't expect. today, it's so easy to skip past those tracks, that if it doesn't have the right hook and the right sound the first time around, there's no real need to give it another chance.

end result: singles will dominate. music will be tailored to the extremely short attention spans of the market, and grow ever less sophisticated so it can be easily consumed by the most people on the first listen.

--dan.

we may end up seeing a lot of “singles” getting promoted on the radio and becoming “one-hit-wonders.”

I don't think it's singles that makes one hit wonders, I think it's just a lack of instantly catchy tunes. I would predict that there will be fewer one-hit-wonders, since artists would probably be focusing on making those fewer songs as pop as possible, thereby giving them more hits.

I'm not saying this is a good thing, though.

What makes them emo?

If you heard a bunch of emo albums in a row, you'd get it more, I think.

Okay, I just read that AMG page, and while they're probably technically accurate, it's a little too encompassing for what most folks these days would refer to as emo. (Personally, I'm not a big fan of pigeonholing things, but I understand the need to draw similarities.)

SDRE is defininitely one of the big names in emo. Most of the music that's called emo these days is going to be musically similar. Usually distorted guitars, almost whiny singing, often almost cloying melodies, but melodies nonetheless, and often very pop-oriented at the core.

Lyrically, it originally involved a lot of depressed teenager diary material, but most of the bands that are still around have gotten past the juvenilia, but still speak about the same sorts of personal reflections. There are some bands considered emo almost solely for the music, though. (That is, the lyrics don't have the same personal quality.) Even some geek rock (Weezer, Nerf Herder, Ozma, etc.) can fall in the emo category.

There have been a few popular acts in recent years that might fit the category, if on the very edges, like Blink-182, Jimmy Eat World, the aforementioned Weezer, uhhh, I feel like there's some I'm missing.

There are also some hardcore bands whose lyrics are emo-like, but the music is not. These can be categorized emocore. Snapcase comes to mind. I supposed I can see how Zen Arcade (referenced in the AMG article) might be a progenitor of this in a way, but only as much as you might call Neil Young grunge.

Really, like most such things, it's hard to define in words. Personally, I'd ignore everything in the article before it mentions SDRE and you'd be closer to reality.