We had some criteria for the connector: self-aligning (floating bushes on one side), recessed contacts for the player side, good power handling, gold plating, good docking action (positive docking, light pressure), good lifespan, pins could be machine crimped, etc.

Centronics connectors don't cut it unfortunately. Many others were ruled out on current, crimping, or size.

Hugo

Hang on, here's tanstaafl's solution.

Rob: Can we source empeg-side connectors and/or empty chassis? Yes, I know they'll be expensive, but it might we worth it. I know that the Mk.I connectors were available from Farnell.

Idea one: Storage box jumpers aux in to the empeg out to let a second head unit pass through to the amp. Good idea, Andrew, and inspiration for:

Idea two: Storage box breaks out the amplifier inputs (empeg out) and power (probably accessory) so we can slide a discman into the box. Most of us would be content simply being able to use said discman for the drive from the music store to our ripper/encoder machine, but tanstaafl needs to be able to play the IASCA CD. If you really wanted to do this nicely, you'd spend the extra time to build the DC-DC converter into the shell, and maybe mount the discman on a drawer slide.

So, no we won't think it's reasonable at first blush, but what would an empty empeg cost us, Rob?

-Zandr
Mk.I #150
Mk.II #39

The only way you'll be able to get connectors is through us; we have to buy several thousand at a time. They're not really suitable for hand assembly, and the plastic comes separately from the contacts. As rob has said, the price would make you go white.

In theory, we could sell you metalwork and a complete internal connector/wiring set (though we could probably get the bits separately, it's much easier for us to get the completed assemblies from the subcontractor). The phrase "not cheap" comes to mind, though... I suspect (but don't hold me to this!) it'd be in around $100 for harness, main box, lid, catches and handle.

Hugo

If $100 turns out to be the right price, I'll take one, specifically to build a Mk2 sled-compatible CD player for those long drives back from the music store.

I can't imagine anyone else is that nuts, though.

I'll even pick it up in Cambridge next month.

(and yes, I've realized that this won't help tanstaafl, since he was counting on using the parametric EQ in the empeg.)




-Zandr
Mk.I #150
Mk.II #39

Greetings!

Actually, you would not be alone. I would be interested in purchasing it as well...



Paul G.
Q# 15189
Status: In queue for a green 36GB Mk2

I don't think $100 is too much. It would save me a lot of time making something myself. I think it would be very useful for those with multiple vehicles. And when someone else is driving your car you probably don't want them messing with your EQ settings. So with a box that plugged in and powered the amp and passed through the AUX inputs would be very useful.

Reg #2845: Mark 1 #00173, Mark 2 #119

I don't think $100 is too much. It would save me a lot of time making something myself.

Actually, I got the impression that even with the parts Hugo supplied, you'd still have to build something yourself. The $100 would have been just for the connector and the metal frame. You'd still need to solder the connections and come up with something on the front that worked for your needs.



___________
Tony Fabris

$100 doesn't appear to be out of the question.

Calvin

We'll have to investigate then; unfortunately, we can't just pull the bits off a shelf, as they are all delivered direct to the manufacturers. You wouldn't believe how much paperwork is involved in getting unfinished units out of them (and this is the main reason that it won't happen unless we become much less busy!).

Hugo

(and yes, I've realized that this won't help tanstaafl, since he was counting on using the parametric EQ in the empeg.)

Actually, I've solved that problem.

First line of defense (offense, actually...) is when the IASCA judge gets in the car and hands me his CD, I just point to the empeg's Now and Next display and say "Oh, don't bother -- it's already cued up and ready to go. These are the buttons that advance to next or previous track." I let him assume there's a CD changer in the trunk or something. If the judge is alert, he won't let me get away with that. In which case, I go to option #2...

I have a portable CD player I got from Crutchfield. I have a cable set that feeds the line-out of the CD player into the auxilliary input of the Mark II sled, permanantly installed. That cable terminates inside the glovebox, where I also keep the portable CD player, wrapped up in a soft cloth to keep it from getting scratched. If the judge is unreasonable, then I grumble a lot, pull the CD player out of the glovebox, plug the cable into the line-out, switch the empeg over to EQ preset #6, and go on from there. The catch-22 is that the sound quality judge can't take away any points for bad ergonomics, and the install quality judge will never see the portable player. The sound quality of the portable is acceptable but not as good as the empeg (it has a warmer sound, not as crisply defined as the empeg, and has a more noticeable noise floor.)

I would be interested in hearing from people who know if some portable players have better sound quality than others.

I am going to try and lobby IASCA this winter to make a decision on how to treat the empeg, as I am sure there will be a significant number of them competing next year. I don't think there will be any good news forthcoming, however. IASCA makes a pretty good point when they say that a competitor who re-masters the official disk to hide the deficiencies of his own system would have an unfair advantage and short of having the competitor play the judges own disk, there is no way to guarantee a level playing field.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

We also don't have spare metalwork - we can't pull anything from the current batch because it will impact production. When we order the next batch we should be able to order some extra chassis, handles and looms.

Rob

Perhaps we'll be able to make a point about this in Oklahoma this fall. We have a booth at the IASCA finals, and it'll be interesting to see the reaction of the worlds more hardcore car audio maniacs.

Rob

Greetings!

What about wave (or raw pcm)? It would take a lot more space, but at least you could prove that it is exactly like the original...

Paul G.
Q# 15189
Status: In queue for a green 36GB Mk2

Nah, we had a thread somewhere mentioning that with most CD drives a rip is not quite the same as the output you get when you play the cd in a normal player...

Besides, you could have remastered the wave file in the same way as you could by burning a CD... (This was the problem in the first place... =)

(Also, I'm ignoring the lack of wave file playback at the moment, as I assume it's going to appear in V1.1 =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

I don't suppose the judge wants to sit around for half an hour or so while you rip his disk and convert it at 320k, huh?

Maybe you can lobby IASCA to provide official MP3s to play on your player. The empeg will not be the only MP3 player people will have in their cars.

-Trevor

-----
Mk 2, Green 12GB 080000349

Nah, we had a thread somewhere mentioning that with most CD drives a rip is not quite the same as the output you get when you play the cd in a normal player...

And in that thread, we came to the conclusion that the rip (assuming it had no problems) was no different than the original CD. A wave file played through the Empeg's DAC should sound identical to the CD if it were somehow fed through the same DAC. And the Empeg's DAC was made for CD reproduction, so, equalization differences aside, it should sound the same as a consumer CD player.

And in version 1.1, we'll actually get the ability to play .WAV files, so that'll even be possible.

Besides, you could have remastered the wave file in the same way as you could by burning a CD... (This was the problem in the first place... =)

Right. Even if there were "officially sanctioned IASCA MP3 files", the judges would have no way of knowing if the MP3s you're playing are re-EQ'd or anything.

___________
Tony Fabris

the judges would have no way of knowing if the MP3s you're playing are re-EQ'd or anything.

That's the crux of the issue. For those not familiar with IASCA judging procedures, you get one chance to set your stereo up as far as gains, loudness, bass/treble, EQ settings, etc. Then the judge takes over and the only things he is allowed to change are the volume and the power controls. The sound quality is judged across dozens of different tracks on the competition disk, so that a car might sound good on a bass-heavy track, and not so good on a track requiring good mid-range and treble response If a competitor could re-master the disk on a track by track basis, he could compensate for deficiencies in his basic system.

Now in my mind, there is a cruical difference between actually re-mastering the disk as opposed to playing an exact copy of that disk (in .wav format) with different equalizations on each track, provided that those equalizations are provided by the competitor's player and not by an external recording studio. In the first case, he is showcasing the versatility and power of his car stereo. In the second case, he is very decidedly "unleveling" the playing field.

Another way of looking at it is like this: there are CD players that allow users to store more than one EQ setting. Suppose a manufacturer took it one small step further, and let you pre-assign those EQ settings to different tracks. All it would require would be a bit of flash ROM to save the settings for each CD. IASCA would have no problems with that, because you would be playing the official CD and the capability of your CD player would optimize the playback -- which is the whole point of the competition. So perhaps it comes down to just finding a way to prove to the judge that the original data on the CD has not been compromised when it is stored in the empeg.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a way to do that.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

What about this:

1. IASCA releases the competion CD pre-ripped to whatever format on a data CD - that way, they can certify the contents.

2. Immediately prior to playing the track, the Judge can verify the copy of the track on the player by comparing it to the original 'licensed' copy (for example, by comparing MD5 hashes).

Note - step 2 is easier to do when the player is an MP3 CD head unit - pop the CD into a laptop, etc. I can't think of an EASY way to do it for the empeg at the moment, so I'll let someone else take a crack at it.

Bill B.
Mk.2 SN 080000183 - 18 GB / Green

Whether it sounds "worse" isn't the point. The point of a comparative test is to play the exact same source and judge the quality and capability of the equipment for reproducing equivalent source material. Until IASCA has an mp3 category, which they probably won't for a while, if the music being played is not the same source but a MODIFIED source then it invalidates the comparative test. Because to what extend has this source audio been modified, etc? Of course you can look at it as no different than using a lot of DSPs and so on...

Calvin

Headphone.com recommends the Panasonic SL-SX460.

Calvin

The point of a comparative test is to play the exact same source and judge the quality and capability of the equipment for reproducing equivalent source material.

Very well said, Calvin.

If the empeg could play .wav files, and if IASCA could provide a checksum (either track by track, or better yet for the whole CD), and if the empeg could display that checksum, and if IASCA could be convinced that the empeg-displayed checksum was tamper-proof, and if the .wav file went into the empeg absolutely bit for bit identical (would there be problems with that between tracks?), and if.... sigh.

If my aunt had wheels, she'd be a tea cart, I suppose. I think it's hopeless.

tanstaafl.



"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Headphone.com recommends the Panasonic SL-SX460.

Well, well... by an amazing coincidence, the one that I bought was the Panasonic SL-SX469. I am going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that the '469 is the same as the '460 but with the addition of the AM/FM tuner. (Of course, they probably ripped out most of what made the '460 good in order to squeeze in the tuner, but ignorance is bliss, you know)

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

BillB wrote:
1. IASCA releases the competion CD pre-ripped to whatever format on a data CD - that way, they can certify the contents.

Or provides the tune in WMA format, you cant change the tune, re-engineer the output of that tune, and its a pain in the arse to play more than once, or on more than one pc!

Maybe WMA is the way to go for competitions? Justa thought since, the requirements of the music's original integrity seems much like a copyright situation. IASCA
wants to keep the song/file integrity in place, WMA doesnt let you re-eng the track/file.


My two cents....

...you know what, maybe that explains my FIRST and ONLY break-in that happened three days after getting my empeg installed.

My logic: big gaping hole = nothing to steal.

Your (correct logic): most people are lazy...pull unit and hide somewhere in vehicle = even easier to steal.

In that case, if the insides of the car dock were BLACK, it wouldn't look so much like a gaping hole anymore as much as it would look more like a storage compartment.

I guess since its stainless steel, coating it with something is a losing proposition...

(at least my theives had the courtesy to reach something in to roll down the window, and didn't do any real damage -- and completely ignored all my loose valuables)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
MK2 #141, green, 12GB

...you know what, maybe that explains my FIRST and ONLY break-in that happened three days after getting my empeg installed.

They didn't get your Empeg, did they? I sure hope not.

We haven't heard any reports of stolen Empegs on this BBS yet, I hope we never do.

Good thing is, for the time being at least, Rob's got a decent database of every customer. So if a thief tried to order a car dock he could track it and report it.

By the way, I solved my "cover the hole" problem, see the thread titled "Disguising the empty sled" in General. Now I've got the same solution I had in the old GTI.

___________
Tony Fabris

Coincidentally, my car was broken into this weekend. Imagine my surprise (and delight) at finding the empeg sitting on the floor of the car! I guess the crooks decided they couldn't easily sell it somewhere and could find better things to weigh themselves down with. Unfortunately, they made it into my trunk where I had a brand-new and as-yet unopened Epson Stylus 870 printer waiting to be installed. Oh well, the printer is much easier and cheaper to replace.

Odd that I'd feel *lucky* after a robbery!

-Oscar

One question:

WHAT WERE YOU THINKING, LEAVING THE EMPEG IN THE CAR!?!?!?!?!

(Glad it didn't get stolen, though, phew!)

___________
Tony Fabris

Tony: No, nothing stolen...had a $200 amp loose in the back, $10 in loose change (stupid Canadian $2 coins!) a couple of the bigger Mag lights, etc. I'd never leave my empeg in the car overnight.

Oscar: they DIDN'T take your empeg? You've got some seriously un-wired theives in your area...

Tony: you think that might be a route an empeg could be recovered? (Rob's database, an order giving a serial #) I wonder if emplode could work like spyware, sending an IP address and serial # back to empeg every time its fired up...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
MK2 #141, green, 12GB

Tony: you think that might be a route an empeg could be recovered? (Rob's database, an order giving a serial #)

Well, I'm not saying it's Rob's responsibility or anything, or that he even has the ability to do anything in that situation. I'm just saying that if someone got their Empeg stolen and the thieves didn't take the sled, then the victim could call Rob and tell him the situation. Rob could then keep an ear open for sled orders, and see if any orders come in under names that aren't registered as owners. If one comes in, a simple ruse could get the thieves' phone number: "Our ordering computer is temporarily down. Can I get your phone number and call you back in five minutes when it's done rebooting?"

Rememer, this is only theoretical. And it would only work for a brief period in the very near future while the only empegs floating out in the market are the ones directly ordered from Empeg and the numbers aren't huge. Also, there are probably some e-bay buyers who haven't registered their names with Rob...

Of course, Rob probably has no desire to shoulder this kind of burden anyway...

___________
Tony Fabris