The May 4 PC Magizine just arrived with a front-page showing that it has an article on Digital Music Players. There is NOT ONE Rio player reviewed. A whole lot of worse players are in it. It's not like this is a minor magazine. Perhaps the ZDNET bill wasn't paid?

Brands Reviewed:
(flash)
Auvi
BenQ
Digitaway
FID
Gateway
iRiver
Philips
TDK

HD based:
Ipod Mini
Creative MuVo2
Fronteir Labs NEX IA

Granted, no Creative flash player is reviewed either. But come on, Benq is there but Rio isn't?

WTF?

-Zeke

It's not only in the big magazines. Over here in Belgium the Rio brand isn't known at all. I've never seen any add from Rio or their players in the local computer magazines. I've also never seen a Rio player in a store or on the product list of a Belgian internet shop.
I mean, this is an entire country (granted, a small one) that for some reason they decided to ignore. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think so. If Rio DOES sell their players over here, then the quantity must be so little that I've never noticed them.
Meanwhile, all those other players like Creative's or iRiver's are getting all the press.

Heck, If it weren't for this BBS, I wouldn't even know there was such a brand like Rio (or DNNA)

In the UK, I have yet to see a Karma for sale anywhere other than amazon. Argos, Currys, Dixons - no trace. Whats going on????

In the UK, I have yet to see a Karma for sale anywhere other than amazon. Argos, Currys, Dixons - no trace. Whats going on????

Same here, most of the others available online in the UK are grey imports

So, it's what you might call a marketing opportunity really:
When I show people the Karma, the average reaction is: "I wish I'd waited instead of getting an ipod", but Apple got their first and hit hard, it's a hard act to follow. But it is curious that Rio products get so little promotion this side of the pond, makes you wonder if you're the only one in step.

I just don't understand why so much effort has gone into making such a good product, and so little effort is being made to actually get people to buy it.

I fear it's going to go the way of the empeg unless something dramatic changes.

Marketing only really works if the product is actually available. Where is it? I see the shops full of unknown brand mp3 players, competitors HDD players and iPods - but if I wanted to go into Glasgow now and get a Karma I would not be able to - I wouldn't even know it existed if not for this BBS.

Someone needs sacked.

Greetings!

If it is any consolation, I haven't seen all that much marketing in the US either...

No marketing in the US either? That's even more strange! The only place where you can actually buy them off the shelf, and they don't advertise there either?

I agree with Philip : someone needs sacked !

It's funny, usually electronics companies are all marketing - and little product. Rio's products are solid but there's no marketing, it's strange, especially in a field with so much direct competition.

Granted, I have no idea how PC Magazine decided on which players to review, but to not have a single model reviewed...it's a shame really.

-Zeke

The only place where you can actually buy them off the shelf

Sort of . . . Consider this conversation I had with an employee at Best Buy.

Me: I'm looking for the Rio Karma.
Him: ummm, I'm not sure I'm familiar with that. What is it?
Me: It's a hard drive base mp3 player.
Him: Oh, you mean an iPod!
Me: No, it's better than an iPod. Longer life, plays wma, ogg, and flac in adition to mp3. It also has cross fading and numerous other features, including gapeless playback.
Him: Really? That sounds cool.
Me: Yeah, you really ought to check it out. I have their car player and it's absolutely amazing.
Him:It plays CD-Rs?

Yup, when we're having to sell the sales people on a product there is clearly some kind of lack of marketing. Incidently I did get the guy pretty excited about the Karma and I think he actually picked up the box and looked at it.

The only Rio ads I've ever seen were before SonicBlue went under. They got some fairly big name recording artists for the ads. But the ads were closeups of these artists listening to headphones, obviously enjoying it, in front of a white background, and we couldn't hear what they were listening to. I don't believe that there was ever any picture or description of any Rio product, just a logo at the end of the spot.

Awful. Unless you were already familiar, you might think it was a headphone ad. Certainly there was no indication that they were advertising mp3 players. But, again, that was under SonicBlue. Now they're apparently not spending any money at all.

Marketing only really works if the product is actually available.

Exactly.. right now Karma is selling far beyond prediction (as are most other Rio players) and a lot of companies are fighting to buy up things like flash memory and hard drives. While we have more demand than manufacturing capacity it would be a big own goal to increase marketing activities.

Of course huge effort is going into increasing the quantity of product we can manufacture (which is already a not insubstantial figure - only Apple sell more MP3 players than Rio).

Rob

Wow! That is a bit of good news. It is far better to hear that there is no advertising because it is not needed than because there is no interest. Cool!

Consider this conversation I had with an employee at Best Buy

Of course, that's an example of every conversation with every employee at Best Buy. I actually like the store, but I do my best to avoid eye contact with the employees, so I don't have to hear "can I help you?" 500 times a visit. I wouldn't mind if they knew something, but they don't, so I don't want them speaking to me

I also have yet to see a Karma in the stores. The only thing I've seen for it was that Maxim (Stuff) article. But I can understand if advertising isn't needed.

Of course, that's an example of every conversation with every employee at Best Buy. I actually like the store, but I do my best to avoid eye contact with the employees, so I don't have to hear "can I help you?" 500 times a visit. I wouldn't mind if they knew something, but they don't, so I don't want them speaking to me

Sounds like PCWorld in the UK except they don't ask if they can help you

Sounds like PCWorld in the UK except they don't ask if they can help you

The worst thing is when you overhear them giving completely erroneous information to another customer and you wonder whether to get involved.
A pal of mine was recommended £1,200's of gear by them, the other week, to do some wordprocessing and email, with a dial up connection - he's more than happy at less than half the price from Dell once I stopped him.

They will be in high street stores soon in the UK (and I guess all over Europe). Takes a while to get this stuff set up, they only seriously started shipping to Europe in the last few months.

As for the lack of advertising (USA too)... well, I have no idea either!

Hugo

Rob,
I'm glad to hear the lack of marketing is purposeful (although wouldn't the 'rare' cachet be a helpful marketing spin?).

It rankled me that such good products as Rio's could have been missing from such a prominently placed review.

-Zeke

I had the same experience with Best Buy the other day. I sat there begging myself not to make a fool out the saleperson who was trying to explain what a motherboard does... I almost asked him what generation flux capacitor it had...

I had a fun conversation a couple years back with a Comp USA guy about his new dual processor Windows 98 box. He said the speed difference was night and day.

Were they selling them in the store like that or was it just a machine the moron built himself.

No, he built it himself. I really didn't know how to respond.

Some people were born for sales

Some people were born for sales

The negative sell is always good: One weekend years ago, I got fed up with my daughter hogging the video for cartoons, and went out to buy the cheapest possible video, entirely for that purpose.

When I got to the till, the salesmen didn't know I followed him and came out with: "I don't know what sort of arsehole buys this f****** crap, I make f****** peanuts in commission". Unfortunately his manager also overheard it and placated me with a free service contract, presumably on the basis that the crap I was buying would probably let me down.

The video still gave good service, without a single repair until 2 weeks ago, 16 years later!

I thought Sainsbury's would be a "no hassle" option for buying dirt cheap electrical goods (like the tight-wad I am).

*Until* the tube blew on my Turkish-made 28" widescreen. Several in-home repairs later they engineer said that tubes weren't available and I would need to return it for a refund. I initiated the repairs just inside the warranty so I thought it should be pretty straightforward.

Wrong! The duty manager said that after 21 days my contract was with the manufacturer and she wanted nothing to do with it. Over the course of the next 20 minutes I tried to educate her on the Sale of Goods Act 1979 without success. I left after she asked me (and my father) to leave the store.

The manufacturer is now going to repair the set, but in retrospect I would have enjoyed suing Sainsbury's so the manufacturer didn't have to take the hit directly.

I have drafted a stinking letter to the Head Office, directly attacking the duty manager and store manager for their unhelpful and clueless attitude. Anybody got any good throwaway lines that make complaint letters sound even better?

Gareth

Your employee is fuckwit..... is the only one that springs to mind.

I know someone who works on Watchdog.... is another.

I got fed up with my daughter hogging the video for cartoons

The video still gave good service, without a single repair until 2 weeks ago, 16 years later!

I thought your daughter was a bit old for cartoons....

Contact your local trading standards office:

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/

They might take a couple of days to get back to you but they'll be able to explain your options, and help formulate a response to Sainsburys

You're never too old for cartoons! It just depends on which ones you watch

I have drafted a stinking letter to the Head Office

This year has been a year of great success for me, in terms of writing letters to MD's and threatening 'Watchdog.

I've got the AA to pay up for work that they said they weren't responsible for, as a member of 40 years standing.

I've got the cost of a holiday returned after the insurance company wanted to argue the toss over whether we fitted the terms and concitions - plus an ex-gratia payment for the inconvenience.

I've got a colleague of mine full payment of an insurance claim from Tesco, for theft that they said that they weren't responsible for.

And only last week the MD's secretary of Comet phoned me to say that a full refund - together with some Comet vouchers - for a repair under extended warranty was on the way after their underwriters refused to pay. Together with the action taken by the Financial Director with their underwriters and by their Marketing Director with Sky.

Don't think I'm a serial complainer, but:

1. Always write first name terms to the MD.
2. Read his/her CV, if at all possible work a reference to that career success in to your letter.
3. Sound like a fellow business professional who understands organisational problems and sympathises.
4. Suggest how things could be done better.
5. Ask to be told what has been done to improve things, so that in future other customers don't have the same problem.
6. Get the letter typed professionally, so that the reader thinks he/she is dealing with a fellow business person of status.
7. Make a funny, but a mature one.
8. Don't threaten, substitute "If you don't ****I'll contact Watchdog" with "This is just the sort of thing Watchdog would love to get their teeth into".

My success proves it works. Oh and: "If you lose your temper, you lose tha argument" was always something that was drummed into you on my mother's side of the family!

I thought your daughter was a bit old for cartoons....

You're joking, the Anastasia DVD, twice a day - everyday!