#230346 - 10/08/2004 14:49
Empeg unsafe by design???
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addict
Registered: 18/08/2002
Posts: 544
Loc: New Jersey
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My little empeg now has about 9k songs on it arranged by artist/album in playlists
Listening the other day to Warren Zevon's "splendid isolation' i thought..gee this sounds a lot like 'changing of the guard' by bob dylan..which sounds a bit like 'i love you suzanne' by lou reed.
needless to say i had to search for these songs to confirm my suspicions...
the accuracy of my impression notwithstanding, i realized that i had my eyes off the road for a good half mile, then like waking up from a dream, i had to focus on where i really was...
having said that, given all of the attention the empeg requires for full use of its features, i wonder if some legislative body wouldnt make it illegal for use by the driver, as cell phone are here in NJ
so..the more songs you have, the more 'work' it will take to hear what you want, and the more distracted you will be from driving
...any thoughts???
Ed
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...One man gathers what another man spills
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#230347 - 10/08/2004 14:54
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: edsmiata]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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That is why I like random mixes - no looking required... And also why (by default) you will not see a visual when started in the car.
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#230348 - 10/08/2004 14:54
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: edsmiata]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 351
Loc: chicago
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Sure, don't do stupid things while you're driving. Seriously, doing a complicated search while driving is pretty boneheaded. Leave it to your passenger, if you have one, or set up you're playlists while you are not in motion.
--Dan.
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#230349 - 10/08/2004 15:03
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: djc]
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addict
Registered: 18/08/2002
Posts: 544
Loc: New Jersey
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True..but the point being is that it certainly offers the opportunity for distraction, especially given the large capacity...otherwise just keep the CD player which reads mp3s and call it a day Paul....i think that function is counterproductive for you have to take your eyes off the road to put the visual on! ..maybe 'bonehead' IS a bit harsh...dont u think?! 
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...One man gathers what another man spills
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#230350 - 10/08/2004 15:13
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: edsmiata]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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To be fair, that same level of distraction can occur with any in car device, from the empeg to the simple AM radio. It is all a matter of the degree of distraction. Passive listening is still distracting (as proven by studies with built in speakerphones).
As with anything else, it is how you use it. I posted a link to an article about an Alaskan driver being charged with murder for (allegedly) watching a DVD while driving... I can think of nothing more prone to abuse / distraction than that, even with safety features.
The big issue is to use common sense and to be careful.
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#230351 - 10/08/2004 15:26
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: edsmiata]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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<rant> It's clearly not the empeg that is unsafe, but the "bonehead" driver for making the decision to operate it while driving. And as for the distraction argument, what will be next? All pretty girls walking along any road side in the summer must wrap up in a full length coat, so not to distract drivers. I personally NEVER use the empeg while driving, it sits on random the whole time. Anyone doing anything while driving, and I include changing CD's, smoking, drinking, eating, doing makeup etc... deserves everything they get, and if that happens to be a tree in the middle of their bonnet then all the better. I just hope no one else gets hurt during their lesson. </rant> There that feels better  Cheers Cris.
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#230352 - 10/08/2004 15:27
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: edsmiata]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Cars are unsafe by design. You could decide to ram it straight into a brick wall or another car or a pedestrian. It's all in how you use it.
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Bitt Faulk
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#230353 - 10/08/2004 15:34
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I recently witnessed a young lady attempting to drive a Rav 4 (always a bad sign, don't get me started on them) whilst simultaneously talking on a phone and trying to get something from off the floor. I'd never seen someone swerve across three lanes of motorway until then, and she did it, twice.
People using empegs are the least of my worries.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#230354 - 10/08/2004 15:51
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: Cris]
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addict
Registered: 18/08/2002
Posts: 544
Loc: New Jersey
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Whoa...never expected this type of backlash!!!  Paul..i read that article and if i am not mistaken, the in dash dvd players/screens are to be wired such that they can only operate witht he parkeing brake on...but as you can see that safety feature is bypassed with the ensuing results the point i was making was that if the empeg is to be used to its fullest capacity...functionality...it only bears to reason that its operation would lead to problems ...no reason to rage over it...this is how wars start, ya know
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...One man gathers what another man spills
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#230355 - 10/08/2004 16:30
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: edsmiata]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I think most of the issue is based with the empeg being distracting "by design". This implies potential liability issues while shifting responsibility for the action away from the driver.
Any combination of tools, devices or circumstances can distract a driver with possibly dangerous results. It does not have to be an external device - some drivers (like that example with the RAV4) are dangerous without any help. The operation of the empeg can be distracting. Talking on a cell phone can be distracting. Listening to your passenger ask "Are we there yet?" for the 100th time can be distracting, sometimes enraging.
I will agree that there are some empeg functions that are best not done while actively moving on the road. But it is a matter of judgement - the driver's or, if something goes horribly wrong, a judge's and/or jury's...
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#230356 - 10/08/2004 16:49
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
"Are we there yet?"
Yes. Get out.
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-- roger
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#230357 - 10/08/2004 16:51
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
All pretty girls walking along any road side in the summer must wrap up in a full length coat, so not to distract drivers.
Hell yes. At least they only walk along the road in built-up areas, so the distraction time only equates to a couple of feet of road, rather than several hundred metres at motorway speeds.
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-- roger
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#230358 - 10/08/2004 17:08
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: pgrzelak]
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addict
Registered: 18/08/2002
Posts: 544
Loc: New Jersey
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Exactly my point Paul....in the land of litigation one could imagine one making an issue of the empeg...it was just an observation which obviously hit a few nerves on some of our members...and to be honest i didnt appreciate some of the comments
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...One man gathers what another man spills
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#230359 - 10/08/2004 17:24
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: edsmiata]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Sadly, the same argument could be made for any device or item that can be thought of. A hot cup of coffee in the lap of a moronic driver is as dangerous as any DVD player. I can only hope that (someday) common sense will prevail. (Yeah, I know...)
It sounds like a few nerves were struck on both sides. <traffic cop>All right people, move along... Nothing to see here...</traffic cop>
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#230362 - 10/08/2004 19:29
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: edsmiata]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
True..but the point being is that it certainly offers the opportunity for distraction,
On these grounds, I suppose that they should pass a law that men are required to don zipper-less pants when driving.
edit: At the risk of brevity and readabilty, and so that my humble attempt at humor may be made more robust -- yea, may be made more fault-tolerant in the face of flying points (finer ones) -- I do hereby amend this post to read, as follows:
"On these grounds, I suppose that they should pass a law that men are required to wear pants without zippers, buttons, or any other type of 'fly' opening when driving."
Edited by jimhogan (10/08/2004 20:33)
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#230363 - 10/08/2004 19:38
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Fine by me. I prefer button-fly anyway. The fewer metal teeth near my crotch, the better.
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Bitt Faulk
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#230364 - 10/08/2004 19:44
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Fine by me. I prefer button-fly anyway. The fewer metal teeth near my crotch, the better.
I'm sure Jaws is devastated to hear that .
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-- roger
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#230365 - 10/08/2004 19:52
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Why shouldn't he be?
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Bitt Faulk
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#230366 - 10/08/2004 22:43
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: Cris]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
changing CD's, smoking, drinking, eating, doing makeup
Cris, though I agree for the most part, it does look like you've never been a smoker. I was a smoker for almost 19 years when I quit last October, and it was NEVER a distraction in the car.
Now, to add to the things that one should not do in tthe car; when I was still working in IT, I saw the same woman on the road in the Denver Tech Center almost every day. More often than not, she would be driving her car while eating a bowl of cereal.
That said, anyone who does more than quickly glance at the empeg (or hit the right button to skip to the next randomly selected track) while driving is simply exercising their right to remove their genetic material from the pool. Problem is, the knucklehead is also likely to remove someone else's at the same time too.
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Dave
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#230367 - 10/08/2004 23:06
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Random quote from the (taped) Just For Laughs festival preview we watched last evening: Quote:
Okay, this is a stick-up.. everybody, down on the floor with your hands on your heads!!
Ooops... I hope that wasn't overy tit-a-late-ing by FCC standards.. not that I reside in unsaid country anyway.
Cheers
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#230368 - 11/08/2004 06:13
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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I was waiting for somebody other than I, to quote the Winnebago case: "Nobody told me I couldn't leave the driver's seat to make a coffee"
It makes me seethe when litigation leaves out common sense! The Empeg is no more dangerous than the Winnebago.
Those(few) of you of my age will remember the long running series, Highway Patrol, Broderick Crawford ended each episode with: "Remember, It's the driver that kills, not the car" - still true 50 years later!
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#230369 - 11/08/2004 07:10
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: webroach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4181
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
I was a smoker for almost 19 years when I quit last October, and it was NEVER a distraction in the car.
I guess it depends on whether you smoke roll-ups. I once saw a cyclist happily going along no-handed while making a roll-up -- ten out of ten for cool, but minus several million for road safety.
Peter
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#230370 - 11/08/2004 07:43
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: edsmiata]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
...any thoughts???
Memorize 9000+ song pin numbers?
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#230371 - 11/08/2004 07:47
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
And as for the distraction argument, what will be next? All pretty girls walking along any road side in the summer must wrap up in a full length coat, so not to distract drivers.
You may laugh, but...
When Ontario first allowed women to go topless in public (provided they're not being overtly sexual, or doing so as a form of advertisement), there were a few car accidents as a result of drivers being distracted by women walking along the road side in the summer.
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#230372 - 11/08/2004 07:50
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Quote:
All pretty girls walking along any road side in the summer must wrap up in a full length coat, so not to distract drivers.
Hell yes. At least they only walk along the road in built-up areas, so the distraction time only equates to a couple of feet of road, rather than several hundred metres at motorway speeds.
Hey, maybe that'll help cut down on the cruising john problems, too!
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#230373 - 11/08/2004 07:53
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: boxer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
I was waiting for somebody other than I, to quote the Winnebago case
That may be because it's an apocryphal legend.
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#230374 - 11/08/2004 09:36
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: webroach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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It has amused me for some time that people beep other people and get stopped by the police for using their mobile phone, but people smoke in the car as a day to day thing. I would rather drop my mobile phone to put my hands back on the wheel than drop a lit fag into my lap and end up crashing anyway due to either my leg or the car being on fire. Bitt - Ok Ok, so I press the skip track a few times  Cheers Cris.
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#230375 - 11/08/2004 10:31
Re: Empeg unsafe by design???
[Re: Cris]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
I would rather drop my mobile phone to put my hands back on the wheel than drop a lit fag into my lap and end up crashing anyway due to either my leg or the car being on fire.
A common misconception. Light up a cigarette and set it on a pair of jeans or a car seat. You'll notice a distinct lack of leaping flames. It smoulders. On the FEW occasions I ever dropped a cigarete while driving, I simply pulled off the road and recovered calmly. I think the worst damage ever done was a tiny burn on a fave pair of jeans.
All moot for me now, thankfully. Blech.
But for the sake of argument, consider this: You aren't able to subconsciously speak to someone on your cellular phone. You have to give it some of your attention. A smoker doesn't even have to give a millisecond of though to the cigarette (unless they drop it). Talking on your phone is FAR more dangerous (and something I will not do in my car. Period.)
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Dave
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