Looks like Empeg has some competition. I think the Empeg is still way cooler (the custom display helps plus Empeg is its own unit meaning it can do more) but this is not a bad alternative. I wish they had built their own headunit so they could give you a custom experience like Empeg, but I think this is good competition, nevertheless. Maybe in the process everyone's products will get better - PhatNoise already has better industrial design.

Marketing fluff below

What happened when a bunch of electrical-engineering students at UCLA got totally frustrated about the limited options they faced when they wanted to bring digital audio from their computers into their cars? Well, two guys took the matter into their own hands and converted their apartment into a working lab — and the company PhatNoise was born. Their premier system includes the PhatBox, a portable plug-and-play unit controlled by your car stereo's source unit. It plays music stored on the PhatCart, a palm-sized cartridge that stores the equivalent of 100 albums. The PhatBox can be installed into systems in places where a CD changer might go. ($499; 310-785-0397; www.phatnoise.com)

I think that if you have the money, there is no equal to the empeg. I have owned the neo35 and although it lacks quality construction, I think it is a better alternative than the PhatNoise system and it's less expensive.

However, I think that car manufacturers could use this thing as an alternative to a cd changer.

-Rob
-----
12GB MK2 Blue 090000736 (6166 in the queue)

Phatnoise is one I looked at also, different approach than Empeg however doesn't seem as sophisticated. Phatnoise was supposed to come out late summer but as of a week ago you still couldn't get one, they have almost missed the boat as far as I'm concerned.

#090000695 Mk2 BLUE 12Gig

We already did a CD-bus based changer, which we shipped (a limited number to an OEM) in August 1999. These have been shown extensively worldwide.

Of course, the empeg-car is a flagship product; we believe it offers many advantages over CD-bus based units. That's not to say they don't fill a niche, but I'm certain we could do a better job than Phatnoise on a CD-bus box ;)

Hugo

hmmm I used to follow that phatbox. but just decided to go with the empeg. I really needed an in dash solution. Welp, after looking at this thing it seems pretty neat. Though it seems that its price has come up. Its now 549 + any accesorries. Heck, I would just save my money and get the empeg if you have room in your dash.

The problem with Phatnoise is that it relies on the UI of a head unit that was never intended to accommodate such a huge volume of music. We're very familiar with these issues as we designed a similar product almost two years ago (I think there are some prototype photos on the geek site).

It could be argued that the UI on some of the head unit products isn't much better, but I'd have thought that even the Neo would be more useful. The Phatnoise may come into its own for cases where there is absolutely no possibility of fitting a new head unit, though.

Rob

Personally I don't like the memory stick players just another thing to lose and not know what's on them. I still have VHS tapes that have never been titled and have no idea what's on them. More clutter is what I see.

#090000695 Mk2 BLUE 12Gig

These are all (Phatnoise & Neo 35) hard drive based products. The Phatnoise connects to a standard head unit via a CD changer bus, and thus has a very restricted UI. The Neo doesn't have that excuse

Rob

Ummm....it uses a cart & cart reader I was mistaken in saying memory stick. They say the cart holds 1000 MP3's (at my bitrates probably more like 4-500). You still have something that has to be loaded and carried one of the things I like Empeg over any other system.

#695 Mk2 BLUE 12Gig

Ask and I may tell you

Can you reassure me why I paid about four times what a Neo 35 would cost with comparable hard disk space (i have a 40 GB empeg II)? Of course the empeg has advantages like a fancy graphical UI and a fancy graphical management tool, but to me those advantages are not worth nearly as much as the price difference between my empeg and a Neo 35.

In other words: why does the empeg cost so much more? Is the construction and quality of the components really so much better that it justifies four times the price of a Neo 35?

In a word, yes.

For starters: the 40Gb neo uses a 3.5" drive. These are not designed for use in mobile environments and are much more likely to fail. The 40Gb empeg mk2 uses 2x20Gb 2.5" drives (you can't get 40Gb 2.5" ones) each of which is significantly more expensive than the 40gb drive in the neo.

The neo has very limited playlist and random support - for example, it can't do proper randomisation across all tunes on the disk (it doesn't have the ram to do this). The empeg, on the other hand, does do proper random shuffle/unshuffle, remembers the random playlist across poweroffs, and in 1.1 will even do things like shuffle biased towards tracks you've not heard recently (which no jukebox anywhere that I know of does). As for playlists, the empeg has hierarchical playlists & linking, the neo has limited size flat playlists.

Synchronisation on the empeg can be done via USB & Ethernet (some people even do wireless ethernet syncs); with the neo's PC bay, you have to power off your PC to load new tunes. They now have a USB bay (extra cost) which at least means you don't have to power it off.

The empeg's sound output is 4 ch (neo 2ch) with better output voltage and s/n than the neo - plus full parametric EQ too. The empeg has line in, which can then be processed by the EQ if required. The empeg has carphone mute, lights-on dimming, and a PSU which is happy with "normal" car power (unlike the neo which, at least in the first units, ran 12v 3.5" discs from about 10-11v and as such didn't work with many of them).

The empeg is smaller, and uses more advanced electronics - leading to more expensive construction and components. The neo is so deep it won't fit into most car's dashboards at all. We also provide industry-standard connections for power, etc in our wiring loom.

The empeg can be upgraded to play new audio formats - WAV and WMA, for example, are in 1.1. The Neo35 cannot support anything apart from MP2/MP3, as it uses a custom MP3 decoder chip. The empeg also supports things like VBR better (and even better in 1.1).

The neo isn't a bad solution, but it's a bare minimum solution. This BBS and its users show that many many people value the extra functionality highly. We also continue to support older models - the mk1 will run 1.1 too, for example. There are a lot more features coming which I can't mention, but I seriously doubt you'll be sorry you bought an empeg - many people who have bought Neo35's later upgraded to empegs; obviously they couldn't live with the Neo's shortcomings.

Hugo

Anyone else who dares to ask?

....and in 1.1 will even do things like shuffle biased towards tracks...
As you're talking about 1.1 - when will we get it?!

As I haven't read every post in the last time and my memory is a bit corrupt... will there be a possibility to configure the player to start up with the last selected visual in the car?

TeeMcBee
Got my Mk2! # 080000143

1.1 will come out when it's gone through testing; it hasn't gone out to testers yet. That's not to say there's piles of work to do on it, I've been running it for at least 3 months - just that there have been holdups.

No, we will not allow the player to start up with a visual in-car (and the reasons why have been discussed to death). If you really want this, I seem to remember someone did a kernel patch which basically held down the bottom button on powerup and so switched back to visual mode.

Hugo

No, we will not allow the player to start up with a visual in-car (and the reasons why have been discussed to death)

Yeah, I know. But I didn't know how they ended up...

If you really want this, I seem to remember someone did a kernel patch which basically held down the bottom button on powerup and so switched back to visual mode.

Yep, I know this, too. But I don't want to wait and upload a new, patched kernel every time a new version comes out...
Well - seems it doesn't help and I'll have to keep on pressing the bottom button every time...


TeeMcBee
Got my Mk2! # 080000143

While I'm really excited to use/see the new features in 1.1, I'm glad that empeg is as thorough as they are about making sure the software is solid enough to send to the masses. Kudos empeg! MSFT, you hear that?

- Jon

PHATNOISE and the NEO, heck NOTHING has ANYTHING on EMPEG. For anyone questioning their purchase and if its within, whatever the return period from EMPEG is, just return it. EMPEG is the leader in this market. Thats what you pay the dollars. You get the STANDARDS.

OK, you've reassured me... :-)

I wasn't having second thoughts or anything, I love my empeg. I was just curious about the price difference which seemed so large.

Does anyone actually have any experience with how long a 3.5" desktop harddisk in a Neo 35 lasts on cobble roads?

Well, I had a five or six year old (pull from a 486) 3.5 inch HD in a MP Shuttle with no real padding for about 6 months in a Jeep Wrangler which makes pretty much everything feel like a cobbled road. Does that count :-)

Of course I was prepared to sacrifice the hard drive to the MP3 gods. The drive still works fine, the MP Shuttle got upgraded to an empeg.

-Mike

you guyz area all gunna be sory when the phatnoize comes out. its gonna be better then the empeg cuz you can use the sames steteo you already got, and its gona be cheaper. Man I been reading this bbs and dont hear nothing but ppl complaning about bugz on the empeg here.

LOL

dosen't this board have a spell checker feature? i also have noticed that every post on the board deals with "bugz". even the forums like ICE and general are really bug report forums in disguise.

come on. the empeg always has been and will continue to be far superior to the phatnoise.

jeremy

12 gig, green...

Edited by jstrain on 16/01/01 12:34 PM.

bwahahahahahahahahahaha - *sigh* - bwahahahahahahahaha


He is a funny guy!
Dude, the "bugz" u r talking l33t about are crap, the empeg is by FAR the best product I have bought to date, I realised today that I havent listened to the radio in about 5 months (since I have had my Empeg).
CD's are so 20'th century, mp3's are the way to go, if you love mp3's like I do, then the Empeg makes sense. Yeah, it's expensive, yeah you need another (somewhat) expensive amp to run it, but you know what - it kicks arse on any car audio product out there!

so there...
How about them apples?
Neener neener, I like linux (cant really use it, but that is a different story), I like mp3's, and yes, I have the cash to drop on a fantastic product when I see one.

Smoker_Man
#080000449 MkII - 36Gb Blue

No way man tha Phat is gunna be Phat!!! besides I could build an mp3 playre myslef for less money!!!!!!!!

Rex

In reply to:

---

No way man tha Phat is gunna be Phat!!! besides I could build an mp3 playre myslef for less money!!!!!!!!

---

Then go ahead and do so...
I bet you can't put a player together that will fit in a single din slot and match the empeg's features...

Let me guess... You'd get a PC motherboard, soundsblaster live, mains inverter and bang it together in the trunk... Yawn, heard it all before...

Speaking of Phat Noise,

• Anything shipping yet??? Been about to ship for a while, yes?
  
• Can you take your dms cart out of your phatbox and play your tunes on a home stereo? Doesn't look like it to me.
  
• Check out this http://www.iomega.com/peerless/index.html. Looks quite like the dms cart. Maybe Phatnoise have sold some tech to Iomega?

I'm not slagging off the Phatbox, but until I see a shipping product, I'm not "gunna" be convinced by any of your arguments...

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

box in the trunk...lol

Did you see MaximimLinux's article for a "Car mp3 player"?
The call it the Route66, and is basically uses a 1u rackmount server (in the trunk), running fancy MySQL for the database, XMMS (i think) and a serial line to a VFD mounted in the dash. Not bad, considering PenguinComputing has a 1u rackmount unit for about a $1K US.

save yourself the headache and lost life productivity and buy an Empeg, to well, use it right out of the box!

PS I dont have the links available offhand, but I am sure MaximumLinux Magazine has a webpage, it is published 6-7 time a year, so the website should have the article for some time.

WTF is a PhatNoise (noize?) and why is was a given such a stupid name?
(Let me tell you a story about a lowered Jeep Grand Cherokee, with PHAT! emblazoned on the rear window, now that guy was cool (and 16years old, who got the cherokee from his folks as a grad present!)

Smoker_Man
#080000449 MkII - 36Gb Blue

I have read the phatnoise BBS and noticed some bugzz on pioneer head units. Strange...; there's only about 10 posts on the BBS and the product hasn't even been launched yet...

Frank van Gestel

hmmm I have to chime in again. The EMPEG is an EXCELLENT and the ONLY in-dash solution IN MY EYES... I've tried the kenwood cd mp3 and its limited! the phatnoise is a great clone of an empeg ( i wonder what photnosie's inspiration is, hmm maybe they got an EMPEG) that is meant for your TRUNK.

BTW- I can use my EMPEG with my current stereo.

Lastly WHY do you post idioic msg about the EMPEG.. I think you do it because

a. you never have seen one, used one or touched one. if you did you wouldnt be mocking it

b. your jealous

so save your time KID!

In reply to:

---

so save your time KID!

---

I feel the same, however I was a little reseverd in my dissin' (ha lol)

I would've gone along the lines of;
97 civic hatchback driving (nothing wrong with them)
slammed with shiney rims (ok now it starts to get bad)
stickers and "sponsor" logos everywhere (now a really crappy car)
an absurdly large spoiler (must I say more?)
or shall I point you to the rice boy racer???

I wont go any further, I cant type I am laughing far too hard!



Smoker_Man
#080000449 MkII - 36Gb Blue

Oh my god, that riceboy page is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. It should go hand-in hand with Mullets Galore.

___________
Tony Fabris

Oh dear, now those are some bad hair days! lol

I once had that issue in my life, but now I am follicly challenged , on purpose!

Smoker_Man
#080000449 MkII - 36Gb Blue

build one for yourself...great idea. how about strapping a big lcd display to your dash. lets not forget the keypad hanging out to pick out songs by some 4 digit pin. of course if you dont use a keypad you can always strap a keyboard to your sun visor or keep a clumsy x 10 remote on hand to fumble around with winamp. don't forget the desktop case you have to stow in your trunk to run everything. whatever you do however, make sure you mount the hard drive vertically so it wont crash. oh, you will also need your inverter to power the whole thing. lets not forget about setting up the turning on and off of the unit. gotta remember to disable scandisk after bad shutdown or you will add another minute to the already long enough boot time.

or you could buy an empeg, slide it into the dash, and listen to your music.

i'm incredibly tired of people comparing the empeg to homegrown solutions. of course some are pretty nice, but you the time you invest the time and money into it to make it as useful and easy as the empeg, you could have just bought an empeg. ohh, but i can build an mp3 player that is hundreds of dollars cheaper than the empeg. never mind that it is no where as useful as the empeg.

please excuse my venting.
jeremy

12 gig, green...

JERMEY im with you on ever word... DAMN THAT IS A GOOD POST

Thanks for that RiceBoy Link!! I laughed by butt off!!

-CHiP

<<(Let me tell you a story about a lowered Jeep Grand Cherokee, with PHAT! emblazoned on the rear window, now that guy was cool (and 16years old, who got the cherokee from his folks as a grad present!)>>


Where you that little 16 year old boy? :)

-CHiP

OMG, how many times have I heard that?

I have a buddy that said that 2 years ago when the empeg was still in concept, and just about ready to ship. He is a technical genius, and actually spent a few weeks developing software for his car mp3 player that he was going to "build for cheaper." So he strapped everything in his car, never finished the software, used someone else's software from the web, spent like $700 on parts, and there was no screen. You know, the old P-75 motherboard and chip, inverter, runs off a floppy. He even purchased removable drive bays for “quick release and fill.” To play the music, you had to punch in a number between one and 2,000 to play the song you wanted.... that’s it. How can you remember what the song number was? He could have purchased an LCD screen to view the computer output, but then would need some kind of mouse, like a small tablet, the kind you can use with your finger.. I think they’re like $40, but the screen alone would have been a few hundred bux more, plus time to mount it, etc. After driving around for a week or so with it the setup, my empeg arrived….he checked it out…. and a week later he said, "my set up sucks!" and ripped it out of his car, and ended up purchasing an empeg.

So save yourself $700…







-CHiP

Errr.. "Troll Alert!"

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Hab you god a code id de dose?

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

(Let me tell you a story about a lowered Jeep Grand Cherokee, with PHAT! emblazoned on the rear window, now that guy was cool (and 16years old, who got the cherokee from his folks as a grad present!)



i went to the university of delaware for four years, and in that time i saw some really stupid looking rice cars. stupid wings, stupid rims (or hubcaps if they were cheap), and lots of really stupid stickers. the worst one i ever saw was this. it was on some slammed domestic pickup with a cap on the bed. on the back window it read, "Low and behold, I'm just chillin". what that means, or more mysteriously why anyone would think that is cool is completely beyond me.

jeremy

12 gig, green...

There were a lot of posts on the hardware BBS, but as people started to complain about the delays the forum was pulled. Apparantly they don't have the time to keep up with the posts (dunno how we manage at empeg then!).

Rob

Umm, well I could remind folks that we developed a pretty similar product to PhatNoise about a year before PhatNoise even started out. It wasn't the direction we wanted to move in, the UI through a regular head unit is far too restrictive.

Visteon (a different division to the one we worked with) were showing their PhatNoise licenced player at CES and it did just what it claimed. That's fine if you don't mind accessing your 20Gb music collection by 4 digit PIN codes, and that's the advanced Visteon version with a Mach head unit. Regular CD heads (that you will use with the branded version of the product) only have disk 1-6 and track 1-99 selection.

Rob

heh, no, I'm no domestic rice, at that time I was driving an '88 Ford Taurus, 4cyl, manual. Pretty posh for a highschool kid!

Now I have graduated to a rather nice station wagon (my profile has that info).

If I bought a Jeep Cherokee, it would be the old Wagoneer, the brute of an suv, before there was such a term, you know, the one with faux wood panels on the side!
This unit is probably late 70's early 80's, about when the only others where Ford Bronco's and Chevy K-Blazers.

I live in a redneck town, where if you have a truck, dammit its a truck (a sky high lift is both cool and useful, but a truck should not be slammed, that is reserved for poeple in california, that's our attitude here, sorry Tony and other californai residents, no shots aimed at you)

Smoker_Man
#080000449 MkII - 36Gb Blue

Apparantly they don't have the time to keep up with the posts (dunno how we manage at empeg then!).

Apparently they've got time to sleep at decent times...

Frank van Gestel

howabout this one...

beaterz


|| loren.cox
|| 080000446

Hey, remember this? You Can't do That on Television
That has some pretty bad mullets too!

Smoker_Man
#080000449 MkII - 36Gb Blue

you had to bring up those horrible childhood memories

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

did someone say "i don't know"...

12 gig, green...

or water... or pie...

how about Barth: "Daaa, I heard that!"

Smoker_Man
#080000449 MkII - 36Gb Blue