#239168 - 27/10/2004 14:35
Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I'm going to be getting an external drive enclosure for an extra 3.5" IDE drive I've got. The purpose of the enclosure is so that I can occasionally plug this drive into my PC and back up all my important data such as the My Documents directory and my downloaded Steam content. In other words, I won't be running any applications from it, but performance is still a consideration.
Ease of installation and plugging/unplugging is a factor as well. I'd like to be able to plug it in and not have to install any drivers or answer any prompts. I'm running Windows 2000 if that's a consideration.
Cost is also a factor. I don't want to spend a lot of money on something that's only going to be used occasionally.
So from my initial googling, I seem to have a choice between FireWire and USB2. Both are high speed, but I don't know whether I should be concentrating on one or the other, or if I'm going to see any difference between the two.
Anyone have any experience with these devices and can offer any advice?
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#239169 - 27/10/2004 14:57
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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If you're only ever going to plug it into that one system, there's not going to be a big difference. WinXP, certainly, (and 2k, too, but I have less experience there) supports FireWire in basically the same way it supports USB. For standard things (hard drives, CDROMs, etc.), there should be no additional config, but you mgiht want to check with the manufacturer to make sure they haven't done something wonky. I have this notion that FireWire hubs are going to be more expensive than USB2 hubs, but I could be wrong.
If you want to plug it into other things, there are differences. USB2 is a lot more common than FireWire these days, especially considering that it can work as USB1 as well. But FireWire doesn't have the host/device idea. You can plug host into host and device into device with no problems. (Of course, taking advantage of that may not be as easy.)
Also, note that the original FireWire spec is about the same speed as USB2. (Technically, it's 400Mbps for FW and 480 for USB2, but the greater overhead in USB seems to virtually negate that difference.) FireWire 800 is available and is twice as fast. That might be a consideration for later on.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#239170 - 27/10/2004 15:08
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
FireWire 800 is available and is twice as fast.
I wonder if the firewire port on my motherboard supports firewire 800. I'll check...
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#239171 - 27/10/2004 15:09
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Oh, you can also get combo enclosures that do both FireWire 400 and USB2. If you're totally unsure, you could pay a few extra dollars and get one of those. You can even buy enclosures with no drive if you want to make sure it'll be upgradable in the future.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#239172 - 27/10/2004 15:12
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Well, my motherboard specs say "IEEE 1394 VIA 1394 Controller supports 2 x 1394 ports" so I suppose it's not firewire 800.
Okay, here's a question. In windows 2000, if I have a USB flash card reader and I unplug it, I get that stupid "You have unplugged..." dialog box. Does that also happen with a firewire enclosure? If not, I'll definitely get firewire.
Side note: Anyone ever find a way to get rid of that dialog box in windows 2000?
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#239173 - 27/10/2004 15:13
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Combo empty enclosures for as little as $28 at NewEgg. They even listed at least one USB2/FW800 enclosure.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#239174 - 27/10/2004 15:17
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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If you're dealing with a hard drive, you're definitely going to have to tell the OS to remove it. It has the potential of having a lot of data unsynced. I'll agree that it should just do syncrhonous writes for small flash units, but there's no way around it for big mass storage. I know for a fact that WinXP doesn't complain when I unplug my FW DVD burner. Don't honestly know about Win2k, as I had a bug there that made my machine reboot when burning. (And I'm pretty sure that that had nothing to do with the FireWire.)
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#239175 - 27/10/2004 15:20
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I know for a fact that WinXP doesn't complain when I unplug my FW DVD burner. Don't honestly know about Win2k,
They changed windows XP so that it doesn't complain when you unplug a USB drive. So that might be why it doesn't happen in XP for you.
My problem is that the "Unsafe Removal" dialog happens in 2K even when the drive has sat there doing nothing for ten minutes. I'm smart enough not to unplug a drive that I just wrote data to. I just don't want the OS to warn me when I don't need to be warned.
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#239176 - 27/10/2004 15:25
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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so do the two or three clicks that will remove the device from your system before pulling the plug
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#239177 - 27/10/2004 15:25
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Combo empty enclosures for as little as $28 at NewEgg.
Link? I don't see one that low, I see $35.90... Maybe I'm just searching wrong....
Also, many of those don't seem to have cooling fans. I'd want one with a fan... (forgot to mention that!  )
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#239178 - 27/10/2004 15:26
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
so do the two or three clicks that will remove the device from your system before pulling the plug
No, absolutely not, I shoudln't have to do that, and I shouldn't need that damn icon in the task bar. That's just not right.
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#239179 - 27/10/2004 15:27
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I don't know much about how Windows implements its filesystems, but under many versions of Unix, it's possible for the drive to appear to be totally inactive, yet not have data flushed to it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Windows did it the same way. That is, there's no way to know if the writing is done except to tell it explicitly to finish. This is known as "lazy writing", and I've heard a lot of complaints about Microsoft's implementation of it, although I haven't investigated it enough to know what the complaints are specifically.
Regardless, just get one of the combo enclosures and buy two cables. That way you'll be able to see if one is better than the other (I doubt it), and have greater interoperability to boot.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#239180 - 27/10/2004 15:30
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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ok. deal with lost or corrupted data, then. they didnt just throw that button in there to annoy you.
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#239181 - 27/10/2004 15:35
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Shop By Category->External Enclosure. Set USB and FireWire to Yes. Click search. Then enter "fan" in the search within field and Go again.
They have an aluminum one with 40mm fan for $53. The Mapower KC51C1.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#239182 - 27/10/2004 15:38
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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I would go for USB 2 if only for the fact that if I wished to use it as a file shuttle at some point, it would still work with any computer that has a USB port (1.1 or 2).
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~ John
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#239183 - 27/10/2004 15:52
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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I have this one, which has options for both USB2 and FireWire as well as a fan. It's out of stock, but I highly recommend it should you find one elsewhere.
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#239184 - 27/10/2004 16:06
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Oo, that one looks good. A bit pricey, but looks worth it. Too bad it's out of stock.
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#239185 - 27/10/2004 16:15
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Firewire has enough power to run any 2.5" drive on any machine that has a 6-pin firewire port. USB2... Only on some systems. I also found firewire to be less CPU intensive than similar USB devices I've used. If the requirement is for an optical drive or a 3.5" HDD, then that's not much of an issue anymore since you'll need external power. I prefer cases with integrated power supplies and a standard IEC power cord (instead of wallwart)
I'd always choose Firewire over USB2.0 If you have a choice, an external enclosure with both is nice. You should also ditch 2K in favor of XP. Reality might dictate what you choose. if you need to share with people who don't have firewire, then you'll obviously need USB. Everyone I need to connect with has Firewire, so I'm safe there.
It takes 2 clicks to eject a device. Using the LEFT mouse button, click once on the tray icon and then once on the name of the device that pops up. It might take a third click to press OK *after* it's ejected on an information pop-up window.
2K and XP do not cache write operations to flash media. There *shouldn't* be a need to software-eject those volumes (but there is). At least they should make it easier, like being able to context-click on the device icon itself. Mac OS' way is a simple "eject" command on the device icon (from keyboard or mouse).
Bruno
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#239186 - 27/10/2004 16:21
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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Here's an enclosure that is a step down to the one I have. It has only a USB connection and the power switch is a bit different. Other than that, it looks to be the same quality design.
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#239187 - 27/10/2004 16:23
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Looks good. The picture of the "USB 2.0 Driver" disk scares me, though...
Do these things need drivers installed? I thought there was a USB Mass Storage standard. Do firewire drives ever need drivers installed?
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#239188 - 27/10/2004 16:31
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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"Things to know" about these gizmos:
(1) you have to tell the OS before unplugging a mass storage device (flashcard or harddrive).
(2) USB2 and Firewire400 are approximately equal in speed, and either of them will likely seem FASTER than the drive in most laptops -- performance is generally quite good, but not always as good as a desktop machine's built-in drive can be.
(3) Some enclosures have external power supply bricks. Avoid those.
(4) Some enclosures have built-in switching supplies, and just use a standard 3-prong supply cable. Go for this kind.
(5) My favourite here is a CAD$34 USB2 generic enclosure, with built-in fan and power supply. Cheap, light, snaps together, and I just love it.
(6) My other one here is a combo USB2/FW400 unit, with external brick. Equally good performance, but a pain to move around due to the brick. It was also pricier than buying two of the cheaper units. Live and learn.
(7) All of these generally work well under Linux.
(8) Linux firewire support sucks eggs. USB2 is far more reliable. Not to say firewire doesn't work at all -- just more the case that on some systems it works, and on others it doesn't.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (27/10/2004 16:31)
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#239189 - 27/10/2004 16:33
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Since you've got a firewire port, get a combo enclosure. Firewire is better in the sense that 10bT is better than USB1.1 on the empeg, even though USB has that 1 megabit on ethernet. However, usb is so much more compatible and cheaper than firewire, it's already won the battle for mass adoption and you'll be much better off having both in the end.
Matthew
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#239190 - 27/10/2004 16:38
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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More notes:
(1) Not all of these enclosures claim ATAPI compatibility -- ensure that you get one that can do both ATA and ATAPI -- my el-cheapo one does both, and so does my expensive one.
(2) One can mount a removable IDE drive rack into one of these enclosures, allowing the drives to be swapped in and out without dismantling it or fiddling with screws. The rack will project out the front by an extra .25" or so -- looks slightly ugly, but works and is quite versatile. For example, I sometimes remove a drive from an empeg and stuff it in to the rack to do direct drive-to-drive cloning.
(3) All of this is for 3.5" enclosures. There also exist 2.5" ones, that can optionally power the (laptop) drive directly from USB2. Sometimes this burns out the host's USB2 port due to excessive current draw on spin-up. Most of the time it doesn't.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (27/10/2004 16:39)
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#239191 - 27/10/2004 16:42
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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No good -- uses an external power brick. Pass.
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#239192 - 27/10/2004 16:43
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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The driver disks are for Win98(se) and possibly WinME.
Linux, MacOS, and probably WinXP all have generic drivers built-in to the OS.
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#239193 - 27/10/2004 16:46
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Here is my favorite -- mmm.. price is higher than what I paid in-store, but maybe my memory is faulty. This quote won't do you much good, other than for informative purposes: PC-Cyber near my house.
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#239194 - 27/10/2004 16:48
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Looks good, thanks for all that info. Since that unit has a built-in power supply, does it also have a fan?
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#239195 - 27/10/2004 16:50
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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Quote:
Do these things need drivers installed? I thought there was a USB Mass Storage standard. Do firewire drives ever need drivers installed?
No need for the drivers with WinXP.
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#239196 - 27/10/2004 16:54
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Yup. small fan inside the rear beside the PSU.
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#239197 - 27/10/2004 17:01
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Photo 1
Attachments
238462-img_1100.jpg (180 downloads)
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#239198 - 27/10/2004 17:01
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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photo 2
Attachments
238463-img_1101.jpg (135 downloads)
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#239199 - 27/10/2004 17:02
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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photo 3
Attachments
238464-img_1102.jpg (133 downloads)
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#239200 - 27/10/2004 17:11
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Looks good. Now I just have to find out how to locat a US distributor for it.
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#239202 - 27/10/2004 17:51
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Quote:
Sometimes this burns out the host's USB2 port due to excessive current draw on spin-up. Most of the time it doesn't.
Where were you BEFORE I did this to my PowerBook?  Luckily it only took out my right-side port. Unluckily, this cascaded into a problem that took out the driver controller on my motherboard 2 days later. Super-unlucky was that when this went, so did the built-in 80GB HD I had painstakingly set up and on which I had some original content that's not easily replaced... 
Bruno
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#239203 - 27/10/2004 17:59
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Damn, looks sweet (esp. at that price). Wish I could find one locally. I hate getting low-priced like that shipped. http://Tigerdirect.com also has a number of units available. They have a local outlet near me, but online variety is much greater. This is where I bought the 2.5" USB2.0 enclosure that took out my motherboard, usb port and two 2.5" HDD (one in notebook the other in enclosure). Bruno
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#239204 - 28/10/2004 00:24
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Delivery from TigerDirect.ca is pretty cheap. But I was in their store last weekend, and they certainly have a lot of JUNK there, much of it lacking any sign of a CSA (or even UL) approval. And no guarantee that the stuff that does have the label is actually "for real". Be afraid.. be very afraid..
Cheers
Edited by mlord (28/10/2004 00:25)
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#239205 - 28/10/2004 00:28
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Yeah, bummer on the powerbook.
The basic spec is that many 2.5" drivers draw 5W of power during spin-up. Since they're running off of 5VDC, that means 1Amp. USB2 ports deliver 0.5Amp.. thus..
Some 2.5" enclosures include a funky cable with TWO USB-A connectors, so that it can draw power from two ports instead of one, for a total of 1Amp.
Others include obscure wording and references to external AC adapters and PS/2 power sources and stuff.. but the one's I've seen have never really explained the basic problem/risk with powering them from USB.
Most of the time it works fine, though.
Cheers
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#239206 - 28/10/2004 01:55
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
Quote:
so do the two or three clicks that will remove the device from your system before pulling the plug
No, absolutely not, I shoudln't have to do that, and I shouldn't need that damn icon in the task bar. That's just not right.
The other reason for making those three clicks is to give the OS a chance to warn about not unplugging the drive holding opened but unsaved work.
Anybody. Do these drives (firewire/usb) always report under My computer as "hard drives", or do any report in as a device with removable storage? I think the latter is what Tony wants, if it exists. (There is, isn't there, a difference in how windows handles the two?)
edit: Good News Tony. After noising around XP, I found that the for the usb drive I have, there is a policy setting "Optomize for Quick Removal" "This setting disables write caching on the disk and in Windows, so you can disconnect this device without using the Safe Removal icon." This is in Computer Managment/Device manager/Disk drives/device>properties/policies tab.
Edited by gbeer (28/10/2004 02:16)
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#239208 - 28/10/2004 12:13
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Sounds like a somewhat lousy option, though -- performance is gonna suffer.
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#239209 - 28/10/2004 12:21
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Well, if he's just using it to stream data, it shouldn't be too bad. Well, no. I guess it won't be able to lazy-write the inode-equivalents, so it'll be seeking around constantly. Yup. It'd still be much faster to just click the right buttons.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#239210 - 28/10/2004 16:25
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I ended up ordering this one that Cybjorg linked. I wanted to get the one Mark recommended because of its built-in power supply, but couldn't find a US distributor and also was concerned about heat and noise. The one I ordered has a large quiet cooling fan instead of a small noisy cooling fan. Since I'm in the process of quieting down my system (I also just ordered this as the final step in quieting down my PC), I was concerned about that, you see.
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#239211 - 28/10/2004 17:20
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Okay, here's a question. In windows 2000, if I have a USB flash card reader and I unplug it, I get that stupid "You have unplugged..." dialog box. Does that also happen with a firewire enclosure? If not, I'll definitely get firewire.
Side note: Anyone ever find a way to get rid of that dialog box in windows 2000?
Fix the problem, not the dialog box...
In other words, the reason it is complaining is likely that write cache is enabled to that device, and no storage device in any OS or hardware storage box is hot removable with write cache enabled.
Regarding the Firewire/USB solution, my personal preference is powered Firewire. You can get 2.5 inch drive enclosures that can power themselves off the Firewire port.
And yes, if you have a 4/6 pin firewire port, it's 1394 A aka Firewire 400. Firewire 800 has 8 pins and is 1394 B. B is backwards compatible with an 8 to 6 pin cable.
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#239212 - 28/10/2004 18:01
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 12/08/2001
Posts: 175
Loc: Atlanta
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Quote:
I wanted to get the one Mark recommended because of its built-in power supply
Since the enclosure has a single barrel connector as the input, it should be relatively easy to get another supply. If the input is 12V, a car player supply may work.
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#239214 - 28/10/2004 19:13
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: Folsom]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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It's not that I wanted to get another power supply, it's that I wanted to avoid the wall-wart and just have a standard mains lead. But I can work around the wall wart.
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#239215 - 29/10/2004 02:38
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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The enclosure I recommended (with the apparently tiny fan) is much much quieter than any of the desktop drives in the house (a lot of them here).
Very quiet fan.
Cheers
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#239217 - 29/10/2004 20:37
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Ok, to hijack the thread a bit, I now am looking for a 2.5 inch drive enclosure. It will be used on both my Powerbook and my new Dell brick portable (Inspiron 9100). After having my USB port on the Powerbook fail once and Bruno with his horror story, I want 6 pin bus powered firewire for it. However, the brick lacks a 6 pin firewire port, though it does have a 4 pin one. It also has 5 USB 2 ports, but no PS/2 legacy port. So...
Anyone know of a 2.5 inch drive enclosure that is firewire and USB bus powered? The ones I looked through are either firewire only, or USB only with a PS/2 power port for use with the Firewire port. The goal is to just thow one cable in each respective laptop bag, and just use the drive on either when needed.
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#239218 - 29/10/2004 20:48
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Once again, my local corner store has it .
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#239219 - 30/10/2004 00:18
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
Sounds like a somewhat lousy option, though -- performance is gonna suffer.
Boy you weren't kidding. I tried disabling write caching on my laptop's main drive. It didn't seem to make much of a difference under my normal usage, but when I put the laptop into hybernate mode, it took over 2 minuets, normally hibernate takes less than 15 seconds.
_________________________
Glenn
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#239220 - 30/10/2004 00:45
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Yeah. The really worrisome part for *me* is that the lkml (Linux Kernel Mailing List -- aka. centre of the universe for Free penguins) has decided that in-drive write caching Is Bad, and are now instrumenting the (linux) kernel to defeat write-caching. Sure, it won't slow my systems down (much) since I regularly patch my own kernels, but..
Cheers
Edited by mlord (30/10/2004 00:46)
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#239222 - 30/10/2004 06:03
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
has it .
Hmm, can't find that product anywhere else except that store, and no solid confirmation "Bus powered" means both USB bus powered and Firewire bus powered. I can't even figure out what company makes it, but in a wild search off modified versions of the part number, I did find this that might work. The only bus power comment though seems to indicate only a dual USB solution though. I just sent them and e-mail and will see what they say.
Quote:
Here's another: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=624684&CatId=1204
Looked up the product on the manufactrers web site, and it is PS/2 powered.
Quote:
And a really nice one from Weibetech (though pricy): http://www.wiebetech.com/products/ComboGB.php
This seems to be perfect and could even provide use for the FW800 port on my laptop. But as you said very pricey.
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#239223 - 30/10/2004 13:11
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Well, PC Cyber is literally my local corner store.. I could bicycle over there and look at one, and buy it / ship it for you if you want.
EDIT: I just now rang them up to see -- not in stock at either of the two closest outlets. Bummer
Cheers
Edited by mlord (30/10/2004 13:18)
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#239224 - 30/10/2004 16:02
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Well, PC Cyber is literally my local corner store.. I could bicycle over there and look at one, and buy it / ship it for you if you want.
Thanks for the offer. If they do show up in stock again and appear to meet my needs, I would appreciate it. I'll make sure to post here if I find something else that works properly.
That FW800 one is very tempting, if only it wasn't over $100 US...
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#239225 - 02/11/2004 03:53
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
In other words, the reason it is complaining is likely that write cache is enabled to that device, and no storage device in any OS or hardware storage box is hot removable with write cache enabled.
Got the device, works great, looks great, love it.
However, unchecking the checkbox so that write caching is disabled on that drive does NOT rid me of the pester dialog. It still comes up even when the drive has been fully written and fully idle for an hour.
Also keep in mind that Windows XP rids you of the pester dialog by default, whether write caching is enabled or not.
The problem is not write-caching, the problem is the existence of the pester dialog.
Does anyone know how to get rid of it period?
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#239226 - 02/11/2004 04:25
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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This is interesting. My brand new SATA internal disk drive has the "Write Cache Enabled" checkbox disabled by default. And the external drive has it enabled by default.
You'd think that should be the other way around.
Anyone think of a reason I shouldn't enable the write cache on the internal disk drive? Windows warns me a blue streak when I do.
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#239227 - 02/11/2004 07:58
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Does anyone know how to get rid of it period?
In Windows 2000, I don't think you can. In Windows XP, it was removed, because by the time it's warned you, it's too late.
_________________________
-- roger
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#239228 - 02/11/2004 08:24
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Yeah, I found that page, too.
My next project will be to locate the Windows OS file that contains the resource data for that dialog, and hack it out of the file so that it can't put it up. Hmph.
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#239229 - 02/11/2004 13:23
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 12/08/2001
Posts: 175
Loc: Atlanta
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Quote:
Got the device, works great, looks great, love it.
How loud is the fan, and does the fan keep the drive cool?
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#239230 - 02/11/2004 15:25
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: Folsom]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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The fan is significantly louder than the "Silent" that it claims to be. In fact, it's decidedly loud in my opinion. Also, the design of the air ducting seems to not really allow a large amount of actual air flow around the drive. Although there is some airflow.
I have no way of measuring the runtime temperature of the drive (S.M.A.R.T. utilities only work on directly-connected IDE drives as far as I know), so I have no idea how truly effective the fan is.
Because the drive is only meant to be turned on when I'm actively backing up files, these are not issues for me. I just want it to get a little bit of cooling during the backup, then I shut it down.
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#239231 - 02/11/2004 18:18
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
My next project will be to locate the Windows OS file that contains the resource data for that dialog, and hack it out of the file so that it can't put it up. Hmph.
Wow. That seemed to work.
The file is "hotplug.dll" and the dialog box is there clear as day in reshacker. Delete the dialog, re-save the file, fiddle with the Dllcache and Service Pack Files backups of the file so it doesn't get overwritten again, and bingo. No more pester.
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#239232 - 24/11/2004 06:50
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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I did end up finally ordering this one from NewEgg. It seems to be the only one they sell capable of bus power off either USB or Firewire. The USB cable it includes has two plugs on one end (one for extra power), then a single USB mini plug on the other that goes into the device. Firewire is of course just the standard 6 pin (that my Dell brick can't be nice enough to include even with 4 usb ports). The enclosure isn't all that impressive, but it is functional. I just need to remember to plug in the USB cables to the computer first, as the drive will try to power off one USB plug.
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#239233 - 03/01/2005 20:27
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I have an external enclosure question and thought I'd just bring up this thread. Is it possible to put one of these in a standard USB2 or firewire enclosure? Would the data transfer rate be sufficient for the faster burn speeds? Would it even communicate properly? I've never used external enclosures before, and I'm only looking into getting one because my PC is now deep under my desk, and it's quite a strech to hit the eject button and put discs in. Any thoughts?
_________________________
Matt
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#239234 - 03/01/2005 21:21
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Yup, should be fine. You can get plenty of (like) drives already mounted in enclosures.
Bruno
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#239235 - 03/01/2005 22:40
Re: Which is better? Firewire or USB 2?
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Check that the bridge chip in the enclosure will work with non HD devices however. Some of the older ones didn't work properly with ATAPI devices and you'd get "interesting" problems.
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