#246249 - 12/01/2005 14:22
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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They want £290 extra to go to 1GB of RAM, ouch !
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#246250 - 12/01/2005 14:24
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I think I'd get the 1.42 model but skip on the bluetooth, dvd writer and keyboard. After having the iBook I'd say 256MB was enough. The only time I've had thrashing discs was when I was trying to run Virtual PC on it.
Just read the T's and C's, in order to qualify the computer has to have been available for purchase on the 25th of Nov 2004. So it looks like the Mac mini might be excluded.
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Andy M
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#246251 - 12/01/2005 14:24
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Ok, an iPod Mini + an M-Box (which I just happend to purchase) is a very compelling combination. You'd just need some kind of small monitor and you'd have a portible recording studio! Too many toys, not engouh $$$.
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Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#246252 - 12/01/2005 14:51
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
Just read the T's and C's, in order to qualify the computer has to have been available for purchase on the 25th of Nov 2004. So it looks like the Mac mini might be excluded.
Yea, that is what I meant. But the guy on the phone said "We haven't been told you can't do it yet so I will put it through" The finance guy was more than happy. It is one of those deals that actually takes money from you every month, not a buy now pay in 6 months, which I prefer, as no matter how hard I try I never put the extra into the savings account to settle the full amount at the end of the period.
I don't think I should have gone for the extras either, but I like the idea of a wireless desktop, and I was buying a newer DVD soon anyway.
Cheers
Cris.
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#246253 - 12/01/2005 16:21
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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addict
Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
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It looks great (as most Steve Jobs stuff does), but the low cost part really starts to drop away when you start adding the so called options.
$425 for 1G - as this is single memory slot Apple get to keep your 256M
$58 for a keyboard and mouse
$100 to add a (wait for it) 4x DVD writer - NewEgg have the 16xNEC3500 dual layer burner for $64
That makes it $1082 without a display which is not exactly bargain basement any more.
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#246254 - 12/01/2005 16:34
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: ashmoore]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Purchase the extras elsewhere. Nothing stops you from doing that. Apple's upgrade prices are gouges to say the least. Memory, hard drive and keyboad+mouse are no-brainers. I just don't know where to get a (compatible) slot-load DVD burner for little $$. You should also be able to use third-party WiFi PC-Card. I'm not too certain about BT - maybe a CF card (but then you might be SOL for driver support).
Bruno
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#246255 - 12/01/2005 16:43
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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addict
Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
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But according to Apple, all of the internal options can be fitted by an authorized dealer.
So getting market value stuff from elsewhere will instantly invalidate your warranty
Regular usb keyboard and mouse combos are supposed to work though, but you can imaging the support call.... you mean you are not using an apple keyboard sir.......I'm sorry, the extra mouse buttons aren't supposed to work sir, Mr jobs has declared them illegal...... 
Edited by ashmoore (12/01/2005 16:43)
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the chewtoy for the dog of Life
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#246256 - 12/01/2005 16:54
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I know that the WiFi card in my iBook cannot be replaced with an aftermarket one. There's simply not enough space. It's about two-thirds the length of a normal PCMCIA card. And it was awkward enough to attach the antenna when it was designed to fit that particular card.
Apple also claimed that it wasn't really a PCMCIA slot and that normal cards wouldn't work anyway. I never tested that out, though.
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mac Mini was the same way.
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Bitt Faulk
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#246257 - 12/01/2005 17:42
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: ashmoore]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
Mr jobs has declared them illegal......
Today was the first time I ever had to ring Apple, I thought it was funny how the sales guy spoke about Jobs like he was some form of God. I got the impression they all sat around together to watch the keynote speech, hanging on ever word. Nice guy though, one of the best sales experiences I have had in a long time. It took me a whole hour to realise what I had just done, very very good (not so good for my bank balace of course  ).
Overall I am happy. I have always wanted a mac, I have never really been interested in a full blown G5 type of thing and the laptops are out of my reach, but the mini will sit in well with my existing hardware, which I think is the market Jobs is after.
Imagine if they make a decent Media Centre front end for this thing, then Mr Gates will have something to worry about. Does Jobs have the same vision for the future as Gates? A mac under every TV in the world? He's already got 10million music players in our pockets already, I don't think that would eb too far away.
Cheers
Cris.
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#246258 - 12/01/2005 18:07
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: ashmoore]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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From someone who spoke to an Apple rep at MW on this: "Apple "does not recommend" that users upgrade the memory themselves - you're supposed to have a service provider do it if you want to add more after purchase - but doing it yourself does not void the warranty unless you damage something. A booth person told me the memory slot is easily accessible once you get the case open. " And yes, I didn't escape my quotes, so that won't parse 
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#246259 - 12/01/2005 19:16
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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So let's say I wanted to use a Mac Mini as a home theater PC. If I had a TV with DVI or HDMI input, then I'd be all set on the video front. What about the audio side? The computer only has an analog headphone jack for output. Do I need an external USB audio device that understands Dolby Digital and DTS?
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#246260 - 12/01/2005 19:46
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I've been looking on the MythTV mailing list about this, after all that's what I want it for. Apparently there are a whole swathe of USB audio cards that will do Dolby Digital and are compatable with OS X.
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Andy M
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#246261 - 12/01/2005 20:40
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Also, if you believe Think Secret, AppleInsider, or Gizmodo, Apple will soon be announcing "Asteroid", which is some kind of Firewire audio device with XLR and other connectors on it, although I suppose you could always go overboard and use an Airport Express.
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#246262 - 12/01/2005 21:23
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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Andy, were you going to try doing video with MythTV, and if so what capture device? I have a hacked series 1 TiVo, but have wanted to give MythTV a try.
edit: Wanted to ask as well if there is a linux driver for the 9200 that someone else has written or what you will do there? ATI does not have a PPC linux driver. Excuse the questions, but I haven't used a Mac since high school, and even then it was just using programs there. I never got into configuration, and the hardware. I am just now diving more into Linux than I previously had with my empeg. (In fact tonight I start a new Linux class at my college with a RHCE  )
edit2: Oh!!! I see now you can run MythTV on OS X. So that negates the first edit, but the first question remains.
Edited by Waterman981 (12/01/2005 22:21)
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#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons
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#246263 - 12/01/2005 22:24
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Waterman981]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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it will probably be used as a frontend for MythTV. the pc with the capture card will be elsewhere, capturing.
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#246264 - 12/01/2005 22:30
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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Yeah, I just found mythtv.info. I had only looked at mythtv.org before. I must say wow! MythTV is really cool! I'm really thinking now about one of these Mac Mini's as a frontend like Andy is.
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#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons
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#246265 - 13/01/2005 00:03
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Waterman981]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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I'd like a link to MythTV for OS X... I'd like to see how they managed to get a capture driver working from scratch. I have a guess as to what they're using, but that means that you won't be able to use but a small percentage of hardware devices. Personally I think MythTV is crapola anyway, but no one has done anything (decent or otherwise) for Mac OS yet (unless you were looking around the cubicles near my own, but you didn't see me write that).
Bruno
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#246266 - 13/01/2005 00:25
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
in my opinion such a big player with no music navigation is a stretch.
Not at all. For all the fancy features you folks put into the empeg, in the two and a half years I've owned mine, 99.9% of the time I'm on shuffle, down-down-down. Every now and then, I use the "next" button. I'm not so much into the "music navigation" as I am into not having to put up with the crap* that's on the radio.
I still have crap on my empeg, but at least it's hand-picked-by-me crap
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#246267 - 13/01/2005 02:18
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: canuckInOR]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Quote:
in my opinion such a big player with no music navigation is a stretch.
Not at all. For all the fancy features you folks put into the empeg, in the two and a half years I've owned mine, 99.9% of the time I'm on shuffle, down-down-down. Every now and then, I use the "next" button. I'm not so much into the "music navigation" as I am into not having to put up with the crap* that's on the radio.
I have found radio still enjoyable, when I travel. But as far as the empeg, I often queue a song, or an album, because I want to hear it, or let people browse the master playlist to find something they like. Do I use *all* the features? No. Have I used most? Maybe not. But I use a lot. Just not frequently.
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#246268 - 13/01/2005 04:32
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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The page I found is: http://www.mythtv.info/moin.cgi/MythOnMacOsxI didn't see anything about what they are using for the capture though.
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#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons
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#246269 - 13/01/2005 05:42
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Waterman981]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Nightmare. Enough reason to buy something pre-built. Myth users make the mistake of thinking because something is open that it's someehow more powerful than something that isn't. Infinite "configurability" isn't always a good thing - most pre-built solutions have already figured out some of the things that don't work and removed them.
It also amuses me that for a "program" supposedly centering around TV, there's no mention of what TV hardware you'd use with the Mac. Plus a mySQL install when someone could write something with SQlite instead... And then you're left with something that will only frustrate the hell out of you if you've ever used a finished/polished product like a TiVo or ReplayTV - or even BeyondTV or SageTV for Windows.
I suppose it's a suitable alternative for the 0.5% of people who like to roll their own - with a baseball bat while wearing baseball gloves (yes on both hands - implying it's not at all an elegant solution).
Bruno
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#246270 - 13/01/2005 06:43
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Waterman981]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
The page I found is: http://www.mythtv.info/moin.cgi/MythOnMacOsx
I didn't see anything about what they are using for the capture though.
Currently Myth on Mac is frontend only. The backend will compile, but there isn't the code in there to talk to Mac compatible capture hardware. All I'd use the Mac for is as a silent (nearly anyway) frontend to sit under my TV. The PC would live in my study with the two DVB-T cards in it.
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Andy M
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#246271 - 13/01/2005 06:55
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I'm not familiar with SQLlite but does it network? I was under the impression that it didn't, which is of no use when you want to have the same configuration across three frontend machines and one backend. Myth was never built to be used on a Mac, and very few people use it on one. Therefore documentation for it rather thin on the ground.
In the UK buying TiVo or Replay is not an option and I used windows applications like Showshifter and SageTV and found them lacking the features that I wanted. Also paying $80 for software that can found on other platforms for free. I'm sorry I'd rather just cvs, ./configure and make and have a free solution that I can lift the lid myself, and that's being continually improved by people with much more programming expertise than myself.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#246272 - 13/01/2005 07:33
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: ashmoore]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
You should also be able to use third-party WiFi PC-Card. I'm not too certain about BT - maybe a CF card (but then you might be SOL for driver support).
I don't think a non Airport card will work in the slot for wireless lan (Airport Extreme moved away from PCMCIA like slots to miniPCI like slots). Even if it did, drivers may be a big issue. Lastly, the antenna connector on my Airport Extreme card is completly different then the typical miniPCI card PCs use.
Bluetooth on Apple systems is usually done the same as Bluetooth on PC systems, it's hooked internally somewhere to a USB port. Finding the right module to keep it internal is going to be a challenge though, and again drivers are a concern. Best bet for Bluetooth as an addition is a USB Bluetooth device compatible with the Mac. There are quite a few out there as I have a DLink one on my Cube, and a friend has a differen vendor one on his eMac.
Quote:
Regular usb keyboard and mouse combos are supposed to work though, but you can imaging the support call.... you mean you are not using an apple keyboard sir.......I'm sorry, the extra mouse buttons aren't supposed to work sir, Mr jobs has declared them illegal......
Right from the Apple site:
And yes, Mac mini will take advantage of your two-button USB mouse with scroll-wheel and your favorite USB keyboard. Just plug them in.
I don't think Jobs has ever really harped on the one button mouse thing since returning to Apple. He did after all start NeXT and NeXT boxes all shipped with two button mice. I think the one button thing is just a holdover from the old Apple days where having two buttons wasn't necessary. By sticking to that, applications have to expose functionality that may be hidden. Even Apple learned this with 10.3 adding a lot of "extras" menus in programs that used to contain items hidden in context menus.
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#246273 - 13/01/2005 08:21
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Oh well, it's a £500 minimum spend to qualify for 0% finance. I didn't feel the need for any of the upgrades so finance would actually cost me £100 which doesn't really seem very cheap at all.
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Andy M
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#246274 - 13/01/2005 09:49
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: ashmoore]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
the so called options [...] $425 for 1G
So how much memory do I want to specify on this thing for MacOS use (and possibly development)? If it were Windows, I'd probably go for 1G, but for Linux I have to really try hard (make -j4 kde) to get a 512M box to swap. I don't have any feeling for how much MacOS needs...
Peter
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#246275 - 13/01/2005 11:07
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: canuckInOR]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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Quote:
I still have crap on my empeg, but at least it's hand-picked-by-me crap
Hey, those Olivia Newton-John tunes are your own business.
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#246276 - 13/01/2005 11:28
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: peter]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
So how much memory do I want to specify on this thing for MacOS use (and possibly development)?
I would go 512M and I think you'll be comfortable. I have 1G on my laptop, but then I AM a Java developer I think I'm going to go 512M just because the $ jump to 1G is pretty crazy -- I'll buy the 1G myself and put it in if I find that I need it.
By the way, if you have access to an Apple Enterprise Rep via your company or something, you can get some pretty decent discounts (up to 30% on the memory, about 10% on the Mini itself). iLife 5-pack under Apple Enterprise costs less than the single user license non-Enterprise.
ms
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#246277 - 13/01/2005 12:05
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Brad B.
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#246278 - 13/01/2005 13:00
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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When doing kernel development, I often run recursive diff on a pair of similar kernel trees. With 768MB+ of RAM, both trees get cached, and subsequent diffs are VERY fast. With only 512MB, there's some thrashing, and the diffs take much longer.
For the Hijack kernels, I've stripped the trees of unneeded architectures, so that my 512MB laptop machine can diff them from cache.
My only other big motivation for more memory, is running VMWare. It can pretty much chew up whatever I throw at it. I imagine that virtualization programs on the Mac platform would benefit similarly.
Lacking the need for either of those scenarios, I imagine 512MB would be fine for today's stuff.
Cheers
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