#246219 - 11/01/2005 17:30
Mac Mini
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I've just been reading about the Mac mini. A box measuring 16x16x5 cms with DVD drive, Bluetooth, USB 2.0, Firewire, Ethernet and it's silent too. All for £399! It seems really cool, am I missing something? Is it too good to be true?
I can see one of these things being the frontend for my Myth setup.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246220 - 11/01/2005 17:39
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Quote:
It seems really cool, am I missing something? Is it too good to be true?
Not according to Cringely. (Prediction number three...a little ways down the page.)
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#246221 - 11/01/2005 17:44
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Sounds like a typical VIA mini-ITX system, but in a smaller case than usual!
EDIT: Oh, that kind of Mac. Very nice!
Cheers
Edited by mlord (11/01/2005 17:51)
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#246222 - 11/01/2005 17:52
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Bluetooth costs extra, but everything else sounds about right. It's not really cheap for a computer when you comepare it to cheap PC's, but it's definitly a cheap mac.
"iPod Shuffle" is the one that amazes me. Flash players were crap that ends up in a drawer, and now they're the greatest addition to the ipod family? Especially one without a screen and with battery life shorter than a carbon? (And apperently with the lanyard running through the usb cap to make sure you only lose the player, and don't lose the cap)
This was a very odd keynote for apple, seeing as they killed three of their biggest myths at once (headless imac, flash ipod, apple phone(which perhaps doesn't really count))
Matthew
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#246223 - 11/01/2005 18:38
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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The mini mac is gorgeous - definitely my new living room system. I'm sure a lot of them will end up in cars also.
The iPod shuffle is a trivial piece of hardware (though quite cute) but if the rumours of 5 million pieces to meet initial demand are true then I guess Jobs is expecting to pull off one of his legendary strokes of marketing genius. I doubt any other manufacturer has ever sold 5 million of any one player, let alone as a channel fill. I'd guess their software effort was near zero, compared with three years of painful DSP development on the same platform at Rio.
Rob
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#246224 - 11/01/2005 18:50
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Yes, I'm ordering a Mac mini just as soon as their estore comes back up  The flash I'm sure will sell very well - it's priced very keenly, no doubt related to the next step decrease in flash prices - but in my opinion such a big player with no music navigation is a stretch. I'm not sure how much it will cannibalise the market for higher-functionality, expandable MP3 players, but if I was making an mp3 plug player... ouch! Hugo
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#246225 - 11/01/2005 19:02
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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How are the specs on this? Is it lacking something it should have (like a faster processor)? I assume the hard drive is a laptop drive based on the size of the device and space options. That will probably be a bottleneck.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#246226 - 11/01/2005 19:05
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Spec wise, it sits about the same as an eMac, or the iBooks. Considering I have been just fine on my 1.25 G4 Powerbook for most everything, it is an awesome little system.
The only thing that will really make you see how slow it is compared to a G5 is doing video processing on it. But still the speed of it isn't bad.
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#246227 - 11/01/2005 19:29
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
and it's silent too
The Apple site only says "purrs" and "whisper-quiet". I think I'll wait and see how quiet Hugo's is before buying one -- though if it's fanless, or the fan is only there to cool the winchester, I hear you can TFTP boot modern Macs, at least into Linux.
Peter
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#246228 - 11/01/2005 19:59
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I don't know about the HD but the CPU is either 1.25GHz or 1.41GHz
My iBook is 1.25GHz and for normal every day stuff, it flys. Even a small fan would be better than my XP3200 hovercraft sitting in the living room at the moment.
I can see well-heeled people buying several units at a time. It also looks seriously sexy (without trying to sound too sad) Mini-ITX systems that look as cool seem to cost a lot more.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246230 - 11/01/2005 20:32
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Why, WHY could they not have it dual-display capable?!?! I would have alrady hit "BUY".... 
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Dave
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#246232 - 11/01/2005 21:33
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
I hear you can TFTP boot modern Macs, at least into Linux.
For quite some time. They use the same ... uhhh ... boot loaders (?) that Suns do -- OpenBoot/Open Firmware, which is described in IEEE 1275. (It's really so much more than a boot loader, but I have no better term right now.)
You can get into it on (I think) any modern Apple system by holding down Command-Option-O-F during poweron. OF for OpenFirmware, IIRC. Or maybe it's Command-Option-O-B? Something like that, at any rate.
Edited by wfaulk (11/01/2005 21:39)
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Bitt Faulk
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#246233 - 11/01/2005 21:37
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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They need to make some nice jukebox (not itunes blah) software and a remote.
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Matt
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#246234 - 11/01/2005 21:40
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Please excuse the probably really stupid question...
If I got one of these things can I see the shares I have on my windows network ???
If I can, this will be a very cheap upgrade for me, using my existing 2 (well 3 really) PC's for all the downloading/storage and server stuff while having a nice mac for web browsing etc...
Cheers
Cris.
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#246235 - 11/01/2005 21:42
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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Yes you can.
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Matt
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#246236 - 11/01/2005 21:42
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Yes.
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Bitt Faulk
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#246237 - 11/01/2005 21:48
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Here's how powerful OpenBoot is:
On a Sun, you can drop to OpenBoot via a key chord. If you type "go" from there, the OS will resume. This is usually 100% safe, even though your OS doesn't get run at all for the time you're in OpenBoot.
OpenBoot has access to all system memory. It has write access.
You can get ps to tell you the address of a running process. You can figure out where inside that running process the uid is stored. You can drop to OpenBoot and change that value. If you do that with, for example, a shell, you have nearly instantaneous root access.
Nifty. Much easier than shutting down the OS (usually hard) and booting off of a CD when you've screwed something up very badly.
Of course, that doesn't show how powerful it is outside the realm of being able to tweak your OS. But it implements a Forth interpreter and knows about most of the computer's hardware, third party stuff sometimes, but not always, excluded. It even implements TFTP and DHCP clients.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#246238 - 11/01/2005 21:58
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Dammit! Now I really hate Mr Jobs! He has taken away every excuse I had for not owning a mac!
I mean I hate Mr Gates too, but I can get my hands on most things he does without parting with too much cash if you know what I mean 
Now anyone want to buy a pinball machine so I can pay for this sucker
Cheers
Cris.
Edited by Cris (11/01/2005 21:59)
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#246240 - 12/01/2005 02:46
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: rob]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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Quote:
definitely my new living room system.
Same here. I have a feeling they will sell gobs of them to geeks as little utility boxes. It will be interesting to see if they can really make a push into the mass iPod buying general populace with them.
-Mike
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#246241 - 12/01/2005 05:10
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Oo oo oo I want one! My first impression when I saw this was (see if you geddit) "IPX!"
Now I know.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#246242 - 12/01/2005 05:19
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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I messed with OpenFirmware a bit on a 6400 with linux. Not all OF implementations are created equal. Some of the stuff in the 6400 was broken and you couldn't get linux to boot straignt from OF. Newer machines don't have that problem.
iRCC, The 6400 even had enoughtfree programmable memory for short custom program. One I recall was to let you select a display modes other than the default. How many pc's do you see booting at resolutions above vga?
The 6400 only let you drop into OF during the post. Not like the Suns where stop-1a would take you the OF monitor mode anytime so long as it hadn't been passworded.
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Glenn
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#246244 - 12/01/2005 09:08
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: altman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Well that did it! They did it on 6 months interest free! Couldn't resist! It arrives early Feb(ish)  Cheers Cris.
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#246245 - 12/01/2005 10:25
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Which one did you get Cris? 6 months interest free sounds like I'll be getting one too!
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246246 - 12/01/2005 13:29
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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True, but the 6400 was quite a while ago, and they've mostly got all the bugs worked out now.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#246247 - 12/01/2005 13:36
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Yes, I'm ordering a Mac mini just as soon as their estore comes back up
And the best of it is, you can carry it around in an Empeg bag...
Peter
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#246248 - 12/01/2005 14:05
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
Which one did you get Cris? 6 months interest free sounds like I'll be getting one too!
On reflection, I think Jobs has sucked me in !!!
I ended up getting 1.42Ghz model with the following upgrades... 512Mb, bluetooth, DVD writer and Wireless KB and M total price £608ish (with my discount! only approx £16 this time as it's a new product ) It kinda defeats the idea of a "cheap" mac. It is very very very well priced. They will sell allot of these I think, but people will end up thinking "How did they get me to spend that much?"
I think a good example of this was that I wanted a 80Gb drive, and the next model up was "only" £26ish more, and that goes for almost everything else, the memory upgrade was down to the sales guy, deff got sucked in there!
If you want the interest free offer HURRY !!! it ends on the 15th and I'm not sure if the mini is inthe deal, but they have told me my paperwork has gone in the post already. See here for details.
Cheers
Cris.
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#246249 - 12/01/2005 14:22
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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They want £290 extra to go to 1GB of RAM, ouch !
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#246250 - 12/01/2005 14:24
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I think I'd get the 1.42 model but skip on the bluetooth, dvd writer and keyboard. After having the iBook I'd say 256MB was enough. The only time I've had thrashing discs was when I was trying to run Virtual PC on it.
Just read the T's and C's, in order to qualify the computer has to have been available for purchase on the 25th of Nov 2004. So it looks like the Mac mini might be excluded.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246251 - 12/01/2005 14:24
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Ok, an iPod Mini + an M-Box (which I just happend to purchase) is a very compelling combination. You'd just need some kind of small monitor and you'd have a portible recording studio! Too many toys, not engouh $$$.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#246252 - 12/01/2005 14:51
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
Just read the T's and C's, in order to qualify the computer has to have been available for purchase on the 25th of Nov 2004. So it looks like the Mac mini might be excluded.
Yea, that is what I meant. But the guy on the phone said "We haven't been told you can't do it yet so I will put it through" The finance guy was more than happy. It is one of those deals that actually takes money from you every month, not a buy now pay in 6 months, which I prefer, as no matter how hard I try I never put the extra into the savings account to settle the full amount at the end of the period.
I don't think I should have gone for the extras either, but I like the idea of a wireless desktop, and I was buying a newer DVD soon anyway.
Cheers
Cris.
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#246253 - 12/01/2005 16:21
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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addict
Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
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It looks great (as most Steve Jobs stuff does), but the low cost part really starts to drop away when you start adding the so called options.
$425 for 1G - as this is single memory slot Apple get to keep your 256M
$58 for a keyboard and mouse
$100 to add a (wait for it) 4x DVD writer - NewEgg have the 16xNEC3500 dual layer burner for $64
That makes it $1082 without a display which is not exactly bargain basement any more.
_________________________
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the chewtoy for the dog of Life
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#246254 - 12/01/2005 16:34
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: ashmoore]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Purchase the extras elsewhere. Nothing stops you from doing that. Apple's upgrade prices are gouges to say the least. Memory, hard drive and keyboad+mouse are no-brainers. I just don't know where to get a (compatible) slot-load DVD burner for little $$. You should also be able to use third-party WiFi PC-Card. I'm not too certain about BT - maybe a CF card (but then you might be SOL for driver support).
Bruno
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#246255 - 12/01/2005 16:43
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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addict
Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
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But according to Apple, all of the internal options can be fitted by an authorized dealer.
So getting market value stuff from elsewhere will instantly invalidate your warranty
Regular usb keyboard and mouse combos are supposed to work though, but you can imaging the support call.... you mean you are not using an apple keyboard sir.......I'm sorry, the extra mouse buttons aren't supposed to work sir, Mr jobs has declared them illegal......
Edited by ashmoore (12/01/2005 16:43)
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the chewtoy for the dog of Life
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#246256 - 12/01/2005 16:54
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I know that the WiFi card in my iBook cannot be replaced with an aftermarket one. There's simply not enough space. It's about two-thirds the length of a normal PCMCIA card. And it was awkward enough to attach the antenna when it was designed to fit that particular card.
Apple also claimed that it wasn't really a PCMCIA slot and that normal cards wouldn't work anyway. I never tested that out, though.
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mac Mini was the same way.
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Bitt Faulk
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#246257 - 12/01/2005 17:42
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: ashmoore]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
Mr jobs has declared them illegal......
Today was the first time I ever had to ring Apple, I thought it was funny how the sales guy spoke about Jobs like he was some form of God. I got the impression they all sat around together to watch the keynote speech, hanging on ever word. Nice guy though, one of the best sales experiences I have had in a long time. It took me a whole hour to realise what I had just done, very very good (not so good for my bank balace of course ).
Overall I am happy. I have always wanted a mac, I have never really been interested in a full blown G5 type of thing and the laptops are out of my reach, but the mini will sit in well with my existing hardware, which I think is the market Jobs is after.
Imagine if they make a decent Media Centre front end for this thing, then Mr Gates will have something to worry about. Does Jobs have the same vision for the future as Gates? A mac under every TV in the world? He's already got 10million music players in our pockets already, I don't think that would eb too far away.
Cheers
Cris.
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#246258 - 12/01/2005 18:07
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: ashmoore]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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From someone who spoke to an Apple rep at MW on this: "Apple "does not recommend" that users upgrade the memory themselves - you're supposed to have a service provider do it if you want to add more after purchase - but doing it yourself does not void the warranty unless you damage something. A booth person told me the memory slot is easily accessible once you get the case open. " And yes, I didn't escape my quotes, so that won't parse
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#246259 - 12/01/2005 19:16
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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So let's say I wanted to use a Mac Mini as a home theater PC. If I had a TV with DVI or HDMI input, then I'd be all set on the video front. What about the audio side? The computer only has an analog headphone jack for output. Do I need an external USB audio device that understands Dolby Digital and DTS?
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#246260 - 12/01/2005 19:46
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I've been looking on the MythTV mailing list about this, after all that's what I want it for. Apparently there are a whole swathe of USB audio cards that will do Dolby Digital and are compatable with OS X.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246261 - 12/01/2005 20:40
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Also, if you believe Think Secret, AppleInsider, or Gizmodo, Apple will soon be announcing "Asteroid", which is some kind of Firewire audio device with XLR and other connectors on it, although I suppose you could always go overboard and use an Airport Express.
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#246262 - 12/01/2005 21:23
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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Andy, were you going to try doing video with MythTV, and if so what capture device? I have a hacked series 1 TiVo, but have wanted to give MythTV a try.
edit: Wanted to ask as well if there is a linux driver for the 9200 that someone else has written or what you will do there? ATI does not have a PPC linux driver. Excuse the questions, but I haven't used a Mac since high school, and even then it was just using programs there. I never got into configuration, and the hardware. I am just now diving more into Linux than I previously had with my empeg. (In fact tonight I start a new Linux class at my college with a RHCE  )
edit2: Oh!!! I see now you can run MythTV on OS X. So that negates the first edit, but the first question remains.
Edited by Waterman981 (12/01/2005 22:21)
_________________________
-Michael
#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons
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#246263 - 12/01/2005 22:24
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Waterman981]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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it will probably be used as a frontend for MythTV. the pc with the capture card will be elsewhere, capturing.
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#246264 - 12/01/2005 22:30
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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Yeah, I just found mythtv.info. I had only looked at mythtv.org before. I must say wow! MythTV is really cool! I'm really thinking now about one of these Mac Mini's as a frontend like Andy is.
_________________________
-Michael
#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons
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#246265 - 13/01/2005 00:03
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Waterman981]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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I'd like a link to MythTV for OS X... I'd like to see how they managed to get a capture driver working from scratch. I have a guess as to what they're using, but that means that you won't be able to use but a small percentage of hardware devices. Personally I think MythTV is crapola anyway, but no one has done anything (decent or otherwise) for Mac OS yet (unless you were looking around the cubicles near my own, but you didn't see me write that).
Bruno
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#246266 - 13/01/2005 00:25
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
in my opinion such a big player with no music navigation is a stretch.
Not at all. For all the fancy features you folks put into the empeg, in the two and a half years I've owned mine, 99.9% of the time I'm on shuffle, down-down-down. Every now and then, I use the "next" button. I'm not so much into the "music navigation" as I am into not having to put up with the crap* that's on the radio.
I still have crap on my empeg, but at least it's hand-picked-by-me crap
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#246267 - 13/01/2005 02:18
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: canuckInOR]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Quote:
in my opinion such a big player with no music navigation is a stretch.
Not at all. For all the fancy features you folks put into the empeg, in the two and a half years I've owned mine, 99.9% of the time I'm on shuffle, down-down-down. Every now and then, I use the "next" button. I'm not so much into the "music navigation" as I am into not having to put up with the crap* that's on the radio.
I have found radio still enjoyable, when I travel. But as far as the empeg, I often queue a song, or an album, because I want to hear it, or let people browse the master playlist to find something they like. Do I use *all* the features? No. Have I used most? Maybe not. But I use a lot. Just not frequently.
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#246268 - 13/01/2005 04:32
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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The page I found is: http://www.mythtv.info/moin.cgi/MythOnMacOsxI didn't see anything about what they are using for the capture though.
_________________________
-Michael
#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons
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#246269 - 13/01/2005 05:42
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Waterman981]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Nightmare. Enough reason to buy something pre-built. Myth users make the mistake of thinking because something is open that it's someehow more powerful than something that isn't. Infinite "configurability" isn't always a good thing - most pre-built solutions have already figured out some of the things that don't work and removed them.
It also amuses me that for a "program" supposedly centering around TV, there's no mention of what TV hardware you'd use with the Mac. Plus a mySQL install when someone could write something with SQlite instead... And then you're left with something that will only frustrate the hell out of you if you've ever used a finished/polished product like a TiVo or ReplayTV - or even BeyondTV or SageTV for Windows.
I suppose it's a suitable alternative for the 0.5% of people who like to roll their own - with a baseball bat while wearing baseball gloves (yes on both hands - implying it's not at all an elegant solution).
Bruno
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#246270 - 13/01/2005 06:43
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Waterman981]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
The page I found is: http://www.mythtv.info/moin.cgi/MythOnMacOsx
I didn't see anything about what they are using for the capture though.
Currently Myth on Mac is frontend only. The backend will compile, but there isn't the code in there to talk to Mac compatible capture hardware. All I'd use the Mac for is as a silent (nearly anyway) frontend to sit under my TV. The PC would live in my study with the two DVB-T cards in it.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246271 - 13/01/2005 06:55
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I'm not familiar with SQLlite but does it network? I was under the impression that it didn't, which is of no use when you want to have the same configuration across three frontend machines and one backend. Myth was never built to be used on a Mac, and very few people use it on one. Therefore documentation for it rather thin on the ground.
In the UK buying TiVo or Replay is not an option and I used windows applications like Showshifter and SageTV and found them lacking the features that I wanted. Also paying $80 for software that can found on other platforms for free. I'm sorry I'd rather just cvs, ./configure and make and have a free solution that I can lift the lid myself, and that's being continually improved by people with much more programming expertise than myself.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246272 - 13/01/2005 07:33
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: ashmoore]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
You should also be able to use third-party WiFi PC-Card. I'm not too certain about BT - maybe a CF card (but then you might be SOL for driver support).
I don't think a non Airport card will work in the slot for wireless lan (Airport Extreme moved away from PCMCIA like slots to miniPCI like slots). Even if it did, drivers may be a big issue. Lastly, the antenna connector on my Airport Extreme card is completly different then the typical miniPCI card PCs use.
Bluetooth on Apple systems is usually done the same as Bluetooth on PC systems, it's hooked internally somewhere to a USB port. Finding the right module to keep it internal is going to be a challenge though, and again drivers are a concern. Best bet for Bluetooth as an addition is a USB Bluetooth device compatible with the Mac. There are quite a few out there as I have a DLink one on my Cube, and a friend has a differen vendor one on his eMac.
Quote:
Regular usb keyboard and mouse combos are supposed to work though, but you can imaging the support call.... you mean you are not using an apple keyboard sir.......I'm sorry, the extra mouse buttons aren't supposed to work sir, Mr jobs has declared them illegal......
Right from the Apple site:
And yes, Mac mini will take advantage of your two-button USB mouse with scroll-wheel and your favorite USB keyboard. Just plug them in.
I don't think Jobs has ever really harped on the one button mouse thing since returning to Apple. He did after all start NeXT and NeXT boxes all shipped with two button mice. I think the one button thing is just a holdover from the old Apple days where having two buttons wasn't necessary. By sticking to that, applications have to expose functionality that may be hidden. Even Apple learned this with 10.3 adding a lot of "extras" menus in programs that used to contain items hidden in context menus.
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#246273 - 13/01/2005 08:21
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Oh well, it's a £500 minimum spend to qualify for 0% finance. I didn't feel the need for any of the upgrades so finance would actually cost me £100 which doesn't really seem very cheap at all.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246274 - 13/01/2005 09:49
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: ashmoore]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
the so called options [...] $425 for 1G
So how much memory do I want to specify on this thing for MacOS use (and possibly development)? If it were Windows, I'd probably go for 1G, but for Linux I have to really try hard (make -j4 kde) to get a 512M box to swap. I don't have any feeling for how much MacOS needs...
Peter
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#246275 - 13/01/2005 11:07
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: canuckInOR]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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Quote:
I still have crap on my empeg, but at least it's hand-picked-by-me crap
Hey, those Olivia Newton-John tunes are your own business.
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#246276 - 13/01/2005 11:28
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: peter]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
So how much memory do I want to specify on this thing for MacOS use (and possibly development)?
I would go 512M and I think you'll be comfortable. I have 1G on my laptop, but then I AM a Java developer I think I'm going to go 512M just because the $ jump to 1G is pretty crazy -- I'll buy the 1G myself and put it in if I find that I need it.
By the way, if you have access to an Apple Enterprise Rep via your company or something, you can get some pretty decent discounts (up to 30% on the memory, about 10% on the Mini itself). iLife 5-pack under Apple Enterprise costs less than the single user license non-Enterprise.
ms
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#246277 - 13/01/2005 12:05
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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_________________________
Brad B.
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#246278 - 13/01/2005 13:00
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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When doing kernel development, I often run recursive diff on a pair of similar kernel trees. With 768MB+ of RAM, both trees get cached, and subsequent diffs are VERY fast. With only 512MB, there's some thrashing, and the diffs take much longer.
For the Hijack kernels, I've stripped the trees of unneeded architectures, so that my 512MB laptop machine can diff them from cache.
My only other big motivation for more memory, is running VMWare. It can pretty much chew up whatever I throw at it. I imagine that virtualization programs on the Mac platform would benefit similarly.
Lacking the need for either of those scenarios, I imagine 512MB would be fine for today's stuff.
Cheers
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#246279 - 13/01/2005 13:09
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
My only other big motivation for more memory, is running VMWare.
Yeah, I can't comment on OSX (or VMWare), but I run MS Virtual Server on my box here, and I'm using something like 1.8Gb of RAM (admittedly, that is 4 W2K3 virtual servers).
_________________________
-- roger
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#246280 - 13/01/2005 13:32
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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A 1GB DIMM for the mini from Crucial is £130 - half the price of Apple.
Rob
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#246281 - 13/01/2005 13:40
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
A 1GB DIMM for the mini from Crucial is £130 - half the price of Apple.
But it doesn't sound like minis are easy to take to pieces. Again I think I'll wait for Hugo's to turn up and then the about fifteen seconds he'll be able to resist taking his to pieces, to see how easy it is...
Peter
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#246282 - 13/01/2005 13:43
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: peter]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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By the way, it's actually kind of hard to get a good read for memory usage is OS X, because it will almost always allocate all your RAM (except for a 3 or 4 meg safety net) with various file caches etc. However, at the moment, I've:
1) got Mail app open
2) got Safari open (doing this)
3) stripping DRM off iTunes music and converting to MP3's w/ JHymn
4) got a Terminal open running top
5) running Stickies
6) running Eclipse (pretty massive Java IDE)
7) always running QuickSilver (baddest-ass mac app ever, by the way)
8) running FrontBase (database)
9) running Apache, and all other misc services
My memory stats are:
PhysMem: 108M wired, 403M active, 448M inactive, 959M used, 64.3M free
So that's 108M wired, which means it can't be moved in memory, 403M active which means it's been touched relatively recently, and 448M inactive, which means it's just chilling and is a good swap candidate. So what you REALLY care about is wired + active. Used = wired + active + inactive, but inactive is really misleading since it's almost always going to roughly equal total - (wired + active).
So basically I have a pretty heavy load going right now and I'm right about at the 512M mark, so I would think 512M should be sufficient. 768M is probably a little bit better sweet spot for a REALLY used dev box, but they don't offer that config. So yeah, I would go 512.
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#246283 - 13/01/2005 14:14
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
then the about fifteen seconds he'll be able to resist taking his to pieces
LOL. The first empeg I ever saw was a mark 2 (no a) that I believe was opened up and the guts exposed before it was ever plugged in by the excited new owner. The whole office who'd been ridiculing him for spending > $1K on an mp3 player (myself included) was looking on as he studied every component, nodded, and smiled. Then he put it all back together and plugged it in. Needless to say we had to eat our words.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#246284 - 13/01/2005 14:37
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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On Solaris, a good metric for if you need more memory is the "sr" field in vmstat. This says how hard the kernel is looking for pages to swap out. If it's consistently high, that means that the kernel is under constant pressure to swap and is having a hard time finding appropriate pages.
Maybe there's something similar in MacOSX?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#246285 - 13/01/2005 14:46
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
Maybe there's something similar in MacOSX?
"vm_stat" on OS X, but I need to read up on how to interpret the values ... I suspect they're also "since the machine restarted" which is a really long time in my case (it usually just goes to sleep), so these might not be fair numbers (i'm sure i've done some mean things to this machine in the past week or so).
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#246286 - 13/01/2005 15:04
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Try giving it a number as an argument. It should then loop every that many seconds, reporting stats for only that time period. And ignore the first line because you're probably right about the "since the computer started" thing, and that first line will always be that.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#246287 - 13/01/2005 15:38
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
but doing it yourself does not void the warranty unless you damage something
So I ran that blog quote by our Apple Enterprise Rep and he asked about warranty to the people actually responsible and there is some bad news:
"I don't know if we have an answer to is it easy or hard, I assume it's hard, but the service manuals don't seem to be posted yet. But it will void their warranty.
Ed"
So much for trusting random blog entries and/or booth people.
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#246288 - 13/01/2005 15:57
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
"I don't know if we have an answer to is it easy or hard, I assume it's hard, but the service manuals don't seem to be posted yet. But it will void their warranty."
A bit odd considering the G3/G4's were designed to be easily upgradeable, with the neat handle that cracks the case open.
Gareth
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#246289 - 13/01/2005 16:45
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: g_attrill]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
A bit odd considering the G3/G4's were designed to be easily upgradeable, with the neat handle that cracks the case open.
G5's too. I think this is just more like the desk-lamp-iMac where it's more about form factor and price than upgradeability.
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#246290 - 13/01/2005 16:59
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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addict
Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
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My brother has the "desk lamp" mac (is that the iMac G4 with flat panel?). It does look way cool, as usual.
He is a photographer and is constantly whining about the perfomance out of 512M system, especially with lots of edited pics open with his ever changing customer albums. Of course he is always running iTunes and other stuff at the same time.
He is also whining now because he wants a mac mini but has no display for it because each of his last three macs had integrated displays
Edited by ashmoore (13/01/2005 17:03)
_________________________
==========================
the chewtoy for the dog of Life
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#246291 - 13/01/2005 17:25
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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The reps I overheard at MW yesterday said that opening it up voids the warranty, and that they had designed "special tools" just to access the RAM in the mini. Take that for what it's worth. It's damn sexy... I found myself trying to figure out what I needed it for. They aren't super speedy. My Powerbook feels more responsive than the maxed out minis i was playing on. Should be perfect for most people though.
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#246292 - 13/01/2005 17:44
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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The photograph on apple.com clearly shows the SDRAM dimm in a very accessible location on the perimeter of the innards. I wonder how difficult it is to open the case to reveal it?
Cheers
Edited by mlord (13/01/2005 17:45)
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#246293 - 13/01/2005 19:14
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
The photograph on apple.com clearly shows the SDRAM dimm in a very accessible location on the perimeter of the innards. I wonder how difficult it is to open the case to reveal it?
It also shows nine sort of peg clip things that look to me very similar to the things that make the Rio Central so hard to open -- and that has only four of them and is plastic and three times the size.
Peter
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#246294 - 13/01/2005 19:18
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mlord]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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_________________________
Donato MkII/080000565 MkIIa/010101253 ricin.us
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#246295 - 13/01/2005 19:48
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: ricin]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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According to that article the hard disk is a 2.5" drive, but only 4200 RPM.
_________________________
-Michael
#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons
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#246296 - 14/01/2005 03:14
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mlord]
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addict
Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Utah, USA
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Quote:
The photograph on apple.com clearly shows the SDRAM dimm in a very accessible location on the perimeter of the innards. I wonder how difficult it is to open the case to reveal it?
With Dremel or without?
_________________________
-Aaron
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#246297 - 14/01/2005 04:52
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
On Solaris, a good metric for if you need more memory is the "sr" field in vmstat. This says how hard the kernel is looking for pages to swap out. If it's consistently high, that means that the kernel is under constant pressure to swap and is having a hard time finding appropriate pages.
Maybe there's something similar in MacOSX?
I remember an article in Sun Expert saying that anything over about 15 was a heavly loaded machine. Mine was running in three digits. It took a long time to convince the holder of the purse strings that there was economy in reducing that number.
_________________________
Glenn
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#246298 - 14/01/2005 15:41
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: adavidw]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
The photograph on apple.com clearly shows the SDRAM dimm in a very accessible location on the perimeter of the innards. I wonder how difficult it is to open the case to reveal it?
With Dremel or without?
Just to add another confirmation, the Screen Savers had* someone at MacWorld, and he asked a rep on air if it was upgradeable. The rep didn't say whether or not it would violate the warranty, but he did say that only those authorized should upgrade it. Overall this machine doesn't impress me past its size.
*yeah, they had someone. They also sent him to CES. I believe the combined coverage of both mega conventions was about 20 minutes. 20 minutes of a show that's live for an hour every weekday. Oh how I hate G4. Hate it with a passion. I don't know how many of you still watch TSS but the one good thing remaining is how little it seems the people who survived the layoffs care about their jobs. It's entertaining.
_________________________
Matt
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#246299 - 14/01/2005 20:10
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Whilst we're on the subject of upgrading memory. If I wanted to upgrade the memory in my iBook where can I get it done in the UK without screwing my warranty? There's only one apple store in the UK and that's in London.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246300 - 14/01/2005 20:21
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Anyone listed here under "Find Service" can do it with Apple's blessing. Expect the additude to be not so friendly about Apple though, since it seems they are now starting to screw over the independant resellers in the UK much like they have here in the US. The same resellers that kept Apple alive in the early to mid 90's now get to compete with Apple stores that have nearly unlimited money to make a nice store. The best idea I saw as in Amsterdam where Apple worked with one of the resellers to remodel into a "Pro" store. It looks much like an Apple official store, but still is owned by the reseller and the employees with years of Apple experience.
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#246301 - 14/01/2005 20:21
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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Seriously, Andy? One Apple-branded store or one brick-and-mortar retailer selling Apple, PERIOD? Either way, makes one question the corporate U.K. commitment, doesn't it?
_________________________
-- DLF
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#246302 - 14/01/2005 20:26
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: Dignan]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
Just to add another confirmation, the Screen Savers had* someone at MacWorld, and he asked a rep on air if it was upgradeable. The rep didn't say whether or not it would violate the warranty, but he did say that only those authorized should upgrade it.
Just seen this linked from /.
http://tuaw.com/entry/1234000917027372/
Gareth
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#246303 - 14/01/2005 20:57
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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You can upgrade memory and disks and airport in any Apple machine without voiding your warranty. I suspect this will also be the case for the new Mac Mini, regardless of what some people are being told. They simply suggest the upgrades be done by authorized reps. Too bad most authorized reps are completely clueless tools who may or may not completely f*ck your toy. I know I have to take my PowerBook in for repair specifically because the asshats at TRG Computers (Newmarket, ON Canada) screwed up my enclosure and keyboard. (You may notice a lot of doublle characters in what I type as ony one symptom of this problem.)
Confirmed upgrading memory doesn't void the warranty (unless you break something): http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300572
They wouldn't (and can't) use a word like 'should' if they had a warranty voiding policy in place. it would be mandatory to have this clearly spelled out.
Bruno
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#246304 - 14/01/2005 21:14
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: DLF]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
One Apple-branded store or one brick-and-mortar retailer selling Apple,
PERIOD?
One Apple branded stored, it opened in November last year. They are opening another one, just outside London (at Bluewater) this year.
http://www.apple.com/uk/retail/regentstreet/
But heh, they have a genius bar !
http://www.apple.com/uk/retail/regentstreet/genius.html
Macs are sold lots of other places now, even in normal high street stores. Back in the nineties they were pretty much only sold by independant Mac specialists.
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#246305 - 17/01/2005 15:36
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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Good find, Bruno.
_________________________
-- DLF
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#246306 - 17/01/2005 21:48
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
7) always running QuickSilver (baddest-ass mac app ever, by the way)
I finally installed this after having a Powerbook owning coworker tell me a bit about it. Now I have it bound to my F16 key (Since Apple decided to add another F key on the newer keyboards). The quick access to web bookmarks alone is worth it here.
One thing it made me realise, the site icon for here could use some work instead of being the UBB lightbulb.
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#246307 - 19/01/2005 18:05
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: drakino]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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You could at least color it to be more like an empeg. Not that I even own one, but bright BLUE would be pretty....
_________________________
-- DLF
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#246308 - 19/01/2005 20:58
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: DLF]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Presumably the future mac-mini owners here have now found and downloaded the short video showing exactly how to open the case (for upgrades) in 20 seconds flat?
Cheers
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#246309 - 19/01/2005 21:09
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2616
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
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_________________________
Riocar 80gig S/N : 010101580 red
Riocar 80gig (010102106) - backup
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#246310 - 20/01/2005 01:06
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mlord]
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new poster
Registered: 12/03/2002
Posts: 33
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...and for those that are wondering, it can be found here, at least for the time being. It appears that the video could be part of Apple's official 'take-apart' guide. Interesting. -Randy
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#246311 - 22/01/2005 14:13
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Well I got one, and the good news is the AC adapter is auto ranging so the weak US dollar came in handy (the higher end model ended up costing about the same as the lower end model would have in the UK, after tax).
Oh it's cute... now to work out how to take it apart!
Rob
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#246312 - 22/01/2005 17:38
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Here's another Cringely article on the Mac Mini. He sees it as the ultimate home theater PC and suspects Apple is cooking up some kind of HD movie downloading scheme as part of some future iTunes variant. Cringely feels that this will be part of the big roll-out surrounding OS X 10.4. He also feels that it's all about movie downloads, not prime-time HD. It would be extra cool if I could rip my DVDs into iTunes just like my CDs.
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#246313 - 22/01/2005 17:58
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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I have several problems with that article. First off, any movie file is going to be a minimum of a gig or more of data if it doesn't comprimise heavially on quality including subtitles and 5.1 surround sound tracks. So downloads are not going to be quicker then just going to Blockbuster.
The Mac Mini also lacks 5.1 surround out, and a component video out. He seems to think DVI will be good enough, but many US TVs still only have analog inputs. Sure, an optional adaptor can add composite and S-Video, but the 5.1 problem has to be addressed via a USB sound card.
Lastly, the 40 or 80 gig hard drive could be a limiting factor as well. If they release HD movies, it could be a minimum of 4 gigs per movie. And since not every Mac Mini comes with a DVD burner, people would have no way to back up these files.
I guess some people expect something more then a basic computer. I guess everyone expects Apple to follow Microsoft since MS seems to be hyping Media Center systems every chance they get, even though the media center boxes aren't selling all that well.
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#246314 - 22/01/2005 18:45
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Tom, your points are pretty much on the money (except the sub-title part* ). This system is not intended to be the next big thing in the living room. It wasn't intended for the living room at all. If it had been, the requests would have been different for the support and hardware we supplied. The chip in it cannot do analog component output, even with an adapter. But anyone familiar with the product line knows there are other chips that would fit the form-factor and power requirements that can. Just wouldn't fit the same price. Everyone also knows Apple has digital audio output on other computers as well as higher-speed ethernet (which would be a good idea for moving HD content around). I'm not saying that a revision won't make these things happen, nor that software isn't around the corner, but all this would be based on all the interest in the current machine and lateral thinking. It wasn't conceived to fullfil that need and it's not being marketed that way (yet). As far as I've heard, this was actually a project that had the support of only *some* people at Apple, and actually lacked that of Mr. Jobs himself. Look how much time he gave the system during the keynote. Look how the iPod Shuffle commands the vast majority of front-page time at the website. Bruno *you can compress the video without affecting the subtitles.
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#246315 - 22/01/2005 19:27
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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With appropriate component upgrades, it's not too far-fetched to imagine a "Mac Mini AV" of some sort or another. The engineering problem for Apple will be keeping the price tag down. Still, even in its present, minimal configuration, you get a machine that can usefully replace a DVD player and add other useful features (iTunes, iPhoto, gaming).
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#246316 - 25/01/2005 14:59
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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And now someone's working on the missing piece for using the Mini with a TV: A Media-Playing front-end. http://mrzippy.org.uk/macmediacenter/ Bruno
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#246317 - 26/01/2005 05:32
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#246318 - 26/01/2005 08:48
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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I think whoever updated the prices on the UK store got things very wrong. It used to cost £290 to go from 256MB to 1GB. It now costs £561 !
(this is on the lower spec machine, on the higher spec machine the same upgrade is now listed as £220)
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#246319 - 26/01/2005 15:53
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: schofiel]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
Dear Apple Store Customer,
Thank your for your recent Apple Store order.
Today Apple unveiled a price reduction and we are pleased to report that the price of the product you purchased is less than previously indicated.
Accordingly, we are delighted to revise your recent order and offer you a refund of the difference in the new pricing.
If you are paying by credit card, loan, or leasing, the price will be adjusted automatically.
Kind regards,
The Apple Store
I am impressed
Cheers
Cris.
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#246320 - 28/01/2005 16:09
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Better than the video is the PDF of (I assume) the dealer service guide. It's big (22MB) so here's a torrent link.
Rob
Attachments
247188-mac_mini_pdf_from_smashsworld.torrent (246 downloads)
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#246321 - 28/01/2005 18:45
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I find it quite amusing that a putty knife is a required tool and can even be ordered from apple. I'd always assumed the knife was a bodge.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246322 - 29/01/2005 14:05
Re: Mac Mini, Now shipping to UK...
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Looks like Apple have started shipping for the UK today, I got my shipping confirmation from the UK Apple Store this afternoon CAn't wait for it to get here now! Eventhough there isn't any where to put it yet, as I still haven't managed the time to build my desk yet, I best get them woodworking tools out and make a start... Cheers Cris.
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#246323 - 29/01/2005 17:05
Re: Mac Mini, Now shipping to UK...
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Cool, if you want to upgrade to 1GB give me shout, I had to do some polyfillering a while ago and I've still got the appropriate apple memory upgrade tools. 
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246324 - 01/02/2005 12:10
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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So what is the first thing I do with my new Mac mini ??? Post on here durrrrrrrr! I can hardly get my head around the fact this is a fully functional computer system, it's tiny! Doesn't seem all that quick to me, but it is installing all the latest updates as we speak. I will post some pictures if anyone is interested, and if I can figure out how to load pictures onto this thing Cheers Cris.
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#246325 - 01/02/2005 12:29
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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What's the noise level like, does it have any fans ?
_________________________
Matt
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#246326 - 01/02/2005 13:29
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
What's the noise level like, does it have any fans ?
Looking at the service manual it certainly has one, wether it runs at full speed all the time I'm not sure.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246328 - 01/02/2005 13:36
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: msaeger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
What's the noise level like, does it have any fans ?
I think it does have a fan, it kicked in while I was installing iLife 05. It's very very quiet, the harddrive noise and DVD Spin Up are much louder. During normal use it is almost silent, the fan must run at very low RPM, there is almost no wind rush, you are just aware there is something moving inside when you put your ear close to it.
The DVD drive is quite noisy, I have the superdrive so maybe the Combo may be a little quieter, this doesn't bother me as it will only be used for the odd archive disk.
I had about 1 1/2 hours playing about time with it until I had to get back to work, first impression is very good. OS X is very slick, it's going to take some getting used to, are there any good (read: cheap) welcome to mac books out there???
Cheers
Cris.
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#246329 - 01/02/2005 14:04
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: Cris]
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addict
Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
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I got one myself last week with the combo drive, and it's also pretty loud reading discs, so it's not just the superdrive that's noisy.
So far after playing with it for almost a week now, I'm loving it, I'm also a PC person who decided to get a Mini since the price was right, and now I'm starting to drool over those Powerbooks since I'm really starting to like OS X.
I'm just amazed that I'm able to do stuff like plug in my camera and it just works, or connect to my bluetooth phone, and was able to sync with the address book without tearing my hair out like with the PC.
Who knows I might just switch, my Mini is able to play World Of Warcraft, well, much slower than my AMD64 system.
I did pick up Mac OS X Panther Hacks, it's not an intro book, but it's got a lot of neat tricks in it.
Oh, and another thing, Mini + GarageBand + GuitarPodXT == Nice little recording studio.
_________________________
--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.
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#246330 - 01/02/2005 19:23
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: msaeger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
What's the noise level like, does it have any fans ?
Ok, I have now been using my Mac mini all evening, having just loaded 1500 photos into iPhoto the machine must be running very warm, because the fan has kicked upto full speed for the first time.
At first I thought I had left a DVD in the drive, but it is the CPU fan, it is about the same volume as my PC at idle at this point. I can hear the RPM dropping as the machine cools, so it is very hot on reducing fan noise as much as it can without frying itself.
iPhoto alone makes the purchase worth it. The new book templates are just what I have been looking for.
Cheers
Cris.
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#246331 - 01/02/2005 19:27
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Pictures, we want to see pictures!!!!
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246332 - 01/02/2005 20:15
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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The good think is Apple learned from a few mistakes on the Cube. While the case looked good, the acrylic shell often transferred drive vibrations from both the hard disk and cd-rom right into the desk it was sitting on. Most people who had problems with this isolated the cube base with rubber. Seems Apple paid attention to that with the Mini, since the base is rubber.
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#246333 - 01/02/2005 20:48
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
Pictures, we want to see pictures!!!!
OK OK
You will have to excuse the lack of a desk in the photo, but I have included both the empeg and Karma for scale. A desk is being built this weekend, final plans are being made at the moment, some changes are being made so I can show off the mini
Just for info, if you include the dock connector on the back, the mini almost sits INSIDE the empeg's footprint (hangs over the back by approx 10mm).
Loving iPhoto5, plugged in the card reader, in goes CF Card, creates a roll and uploads photos to HD! Great!
Cheers
Cris.
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#246334 - 03/02/2005 19:45
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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#246335 - 05/02/2005 00:25
Re: Mac Mini - 1969 MacNova
[Re: BartDG]
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new poster
Registered: 12/03/2002
Posts: 33
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Here's the latest example of a MacMini being installed in a car, a 1969 Nova. Not too many details at this point, just that they're using a 7" touchscreen and a usb hub to facilitate the car's owner being able to record musical ideas (I presume via MIDI adapter) to the Mac. There is a short video of the iTunes visualization on the installed screen and more details to be added in the coming weeks. This is looking like a very cool setup for an In Car Entertainment. Don't get me wrong, I love my Empeg, but maybe in my next vehicle (in another 4-5 years) I'll be installing a MacMini that will somehow emulate the Empeg software- version 3 or 4, of course. 
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#246336 - 05/02/2005 11:52
Re: Mac Mini - 1969 MacNova
[Re: RandallFarr]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Hope the finished version looks better than the photos.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#246337 - 23/02/2005 03:10
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
Here's how powerful OpenBoot is: ...
Bumping this... I've just discovered a cool feature of the Apple implementation of openfirmware. Holding down the T key durring boot will cause it to go into Firewire Target Disk Mode, making it pretend it is an external firewire drive instead of a computer... Convenient should you hose your OS install, I would think.
Matthew
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#246338 - 24/02/2005 00:33
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: BAKup]
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addict
Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
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Well, this is not fun, I stopped by the local Apple store asking to get the bluetooth and airport installed since I didn't get those when I bought it. They told me that they have no way to install Wireless or Bluetooth after the fact. The salesperson even told me the only way to get it that way was to ebay the old one and buy one with it already installed.
I'd like to call *censored* on this, and would like to know where I should go to find out if this is possible.
_________________________
--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.
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#246339 - 24/02/2005 00:49
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: BAKup]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Hmm. Apparently the service manual that was leaked contains details on how to perform the upgrade and specifically states that Apple will provide an upgrade kit for service techs.
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#246340 - 24/02/2005 00:50
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: BAKup]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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From the dealer service guide linked by Rob V. in this thread:
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#246341 - 24/02/2005 02:53
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: tman]
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addict
Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
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Thanks for pointing that out, I just snagged a copy myself, and read over it...It seems the salesperson was blowing smoke up my...
Ok, if my local Apple store isn't being helpful, should I go straight to 800-My-Apple and find out what it'll take, or does anyone know of a good Apple dealer in Houston.
_________________________
--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.
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#246342 - 24/02/2005 04:55
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: BAKup]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Thanks for pointing that out, I just snagged a copy myself, and read over it...It seems the salesperson was blowing smoke up my...
Ok, if my local Apple store isn't being helpful, should I go straight to 800-My-Apple and find out what it'll take, or does anyone know of a good Apple dealer in Houston.
Go back to your Apple store, and talk to a manager. Tell the manager what the sales person told you (and who the sales person is, if you can remember). Then tell the manager that you did a little research, and found this in the service manual, and that you're extremely disappointed that you feel the employee was blowing smoke up your wazoo to get you to buy a new machine. Keep talking long enough, with threats to escalate to Apple HQ (or wherever), and you might be able to get the upgrade/installation for less than normal. Let the manager try to fix the problem before jumping ship.
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#246343 - 24/02/2005 09:27
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: BAKup]
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addict
Registered: 05/05/2000
Posts: 623
Loc: Cambridge
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Quote:
Well, this is not fun, I stopped by the local Apple store asking to get the bluetooth and airport installed since I didn't get those when I bought it. They told me that they have no way to install Wireless or Bluetooth after the fact. The salesperson even told me the only way to get it that way was to ebay the old one and buy one with it already installed.
While this is completely wrong, it is understandable that if he had only received basic retail training on the product why he thought this.
While an Airport card can be purchased separately, on Apple's other machines, the Bluetooth adapter is a BTO option and isn't usually available separately, even to authorised dealers to do upgrades. It seems that Apple have made an exception in the case of the mini as they are probably aware that many people will buy one off-the-shelf and then realise they want the upgrade.
If he didn't know about this upgrade kit, then he might have assumed that if you wanted internal Bluetooth, you'd need to buy a new machine.
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#246344 - 24/02/2005 12:19
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: canuckInOR]
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addict
Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
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Let me add this in, forgot to say it at the time, but when I asked him, he went to the back, came back a minute or so later, and that's when he told me the only way to get bluetooth and airport in a Mac Mini was to buy one with it already installed.
I did tell the salesperson that I wanted both the airport and the bluetooth, so I don't think it was any confusion on his part thinking I only wanted one, and the upgrade only has both.
I think I'm going to take a long lunch today and stop by the store and get some real answers.
_________________________
--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.
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#246345 - 24/02/2005 13:32
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: BAKup]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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It is possible that Apple changed their mind about offering an upgrade kit after the service manual was written.
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#246347 - 24/02/2005 14:35
Re: Mac Mini, It's HERE !!!
[Re: tman]
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addict
Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
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Ok, I just got of the phone with another dealer, they had to call me back, but before they did, he did say they can do it, but the don't have the part yet. He then called me back about 20 minutes later and said that Apple isn't going to be shipping them out until Early March, but he will get back in touch with me when he gets a firm date.
So, it is possible, but the upgrade kit isn't out yet.
_________________________
--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.
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#246348 - 26/02/2005 07:53
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: rob]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
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Okay could someone tell Mr thicky exactly what kind of ram i want to be buying to upgrade mine when it arrives To me memory is the green strips you shove inside the machine.
_________________________
P.Allison fixer of big engines
Mk2+Mk2a signed by God / Hacked by the Lord
Aberdeen Scotland
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#246349 - 26/02/2005 10:09
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: thinfourth2]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#246350 - 26/02/2005 16:21
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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To put it plain and simple: PC2700 (DDR 333) [or better] 184-pin DIMM. This is all Apple specifies - they mention nothing about unbuffered nor CAS timings in their own documentation.
The RAM can be bought from any number of sources and can usually be found for quite a bit less than Crucial's online prices.
Bruno
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#246351 - 26/02/2005 23:43
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Fair enough. Years ago I used to keep on top of the whole "what memory goes with what processor" thing. I got bored at some point and now rely on Crucial to provide me with the correct memory for a particular system.
I know I probably pay a premium, but I trade that off with the fact that I could say "you dummies, you sent me memory that doesn't work this this system" if things didn't work out.
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#246352 - 27/02/2005 13:00
Re: Mac Mini
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
I know I probably pay a premium, but I trade that off with the fact that I could say "you dummies, you sent me memory that doesn't work this this system" if things didn't work out.
Same here. It's guaranteed to work and if it doesn't then I get to bitch at them.
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