#254508 - 18/04/2005 03:22
Toy for the 13 steppers
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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http://www.brookstone.com/shop/product.asp?product_code=446344Just picked one up. Anyone remember the URL to the internet story by the guy who got one of those and tried to see how high he could make it go?
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#254509 - 18/04/2005 03:34
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 828
Loc: Texas, USA
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#254510 - 18/04/2005 03:53
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: Mach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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That's the one. I love this BBS. 
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#254511 - 18/04/2005 15:11
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Just read that Tucker Max story. Owch. Owch. Owch.
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#254512 - 19/04/2005 01:14
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: Mach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Is that site for real?
_________________________
Brad B.
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#254513 - 19/04/2005 03:59
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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old hand
Registered: 28/12/2001
Posts: 868
Loc: Los Angeles
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Quote:
Is that site for real?
Yep. Tucker is quite a character.
_________________________
Ninti - MK IIa 60GB Smoke, 30GB, 10GB
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#254514 - 19/04/2005 12:08
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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I dunno about these electronic BAC deals. For one thing, I can imagine that one of their primary uses, despite warning labels to the contrary, is so people can go out, have a few, and then check to see if they're "legal" in terms of BAC. IMHO, if you need the assistance of an electronic device to tell you if you're good to drive, then you're not good to drive. The other thing is, part of the fun of tying one on is the idea of not knowing how intoximicated you really are. The last thing I'm interested in doing when I'm drinking is finding out how drunk I am ("Honestly, ossifer, I'm not as think as you drunk I am.")
Actually, I've seen a *public* electronic BAC meter (complete with disposable mouthpiece thingies) outside a pizza shop near my college campus. Other than petty bragging about who's the most inebreated, I don't get the point.
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#254515 - 19/04/2005 12:22
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Other than petty bragging about who's the most inebreated
There used to be one of these in a pub I used to go drinking in. That's pretty much all we used it for.
_________________________
-- roger
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#254516 - 19/04/2005 12:27
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Where these devices could be useful are in the increasing number of jurisdictions that are trying to outlaw alcohol by legislating ridiculously low "intoxication" levels. In those cases, one may be legally "impaired" long before being actually impaired, and the only way to know is to test it. Prohibition returns.
Cheers
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#254517 - 19/04/2005 12:37
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
...legislating ridiculously low "intoxication" levels...
Yeah, but once you're over the limit, what are you going to do? Wait around for a couple of hours?
If you're going to drive home, don't drink.
_________________________
-- roger
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#254518 - 19/04/2005 13:02
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: ninti]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Wow, you think HBO's going to make a mini-series about this guy? Some of those stories are unreal.
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#254519 - 19/04/2005 13:23
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
Where these devices could be useful are in the increasing number of jurisdictions that are trying to outlaw alcohol by legislating ridiculously low "intoxication" levels.
This is a bit of a slippery slope though, is it not? I dunno about the GWN, but here in the States, the typical legal limit is 0.10, though some states go lower, and some play games by having another limit (say, 0.08) beyond which the police have discretion in declaring you impaired. Thing is, none of it means anything, because alcohol affects people differently, and everyone's ability to cope with intoxication in an, uh, effective manner is different. And it's clear you can't rely on common sense, because that's one of the first things to disappear when consuming alcohol. So, what, to you, would be a sensible limit?
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#254520 - 19/04/2005 13:51
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I dunno about these electronic BAC deals.
Well, I bought it for two reasons. The first reason was pure curiosity. I'd always wanted to know what "legally drunk" felt like. I suspect that I've never actually ever been anywhere near that intoxicated. The second reason is (hopefully) to help relax SWMBO pressure. She complains if I have a margarita or two and then drive, and I'm sure that I'm fine in those cases. It'd be nice to have a second opinion to back me up.
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#254521 - 19/04/2005 14:18
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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FWIW, here's a Blood Alcohol Content Calculator based on drinks, body weight, and time. Obviously it's an estimate, but it'll give you an idea. If you're the type that might have two margaritas with dinner, then I suspect that you've been legally drunk before. It's not very drunk at all.
Edited by wfaulk (19/04/2005 14:20)
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#254522 - 19/04/2005 17:38
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: wfaulk]
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enthusiast
Registered: 31/05/2002
Posts: 352
Loc: santa cruz,ca
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according to the calculator above, I can have 3 import beers in 1 hour and have a BAC of (only) .04.
no chance in hell I can drive after that. and don't get me wrong, I can drink like a fish. but beer puts me down, and fast.
even if it's right and I'm only 'half drunk', I know myself well enough to know that aint gonna fly.
I think such a device will only back up people that are unsure and give them a false sense of capability.
if I'm 50% drunk and I run someone over, they're still gonna be 100% dead.
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#254523 - 19/04/2005 17:56
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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I'm far from a teetotaler, but I have to agree with Bitt's assessment that, unless you your dinner is 3+ hours long, or unless those margaritas are exceptionally weak, you've, at least for a time, crossed 0.8, which is fast becoming the new national standard for legally intoxicated. Now, by the time you've finished the meal, hit the road, etc. I seriously doubt you're *signficantly* impaired when you drive, but at the same time, you never really know how strong they're mixing them, and it's a non-arguable fact that impairdness begins with the first drink. Having a device that proves you're at a certain BAC seems to just be a false sense of security. That's not to say you should call a cab if you have a single beer with dinner, but know that, even with a single beer, you're partially impaired (and the law recognizes this, by allowing you to have > 0 BAC.)
Edit: Incidentally, my new avatar has nothing to do with this discussion, but it is remarkably appropriate.
Edited by tonyc (19/04/2005 17:57)
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#254524 - 19/04/2005 18:05
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tonyc]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
Having a device that proves you're at a certain BAC seems to just be a false sense of security.
Maybe they made the device with the intention of selling it in Montana. You could check your BAC between beers to see if you should pull over.
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#254525 - 19/04/2005 18:08
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Wow. Now *that's* a little bit crazy.
(tonyc types "montana real estate" into his google toolbar)
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#254526 - 19/04/2005 18:30
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tonyc]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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You've got until Oct. 1 to take advantage of it! I think I'm up for a road trip.
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#254527 - 19/04/2005 19:25
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
0.8, which is fast becoming the new national standard for legally intoxicated
I think in order to get certain Federal funds for road repair, states are required to use the 0.8 limit and that's why it's becoming the standard.
I agree with Tony, I'd like to get one out of curiousity. I'm 30 years old and am not going to use it for bragging rights with my friends. I stopped that kinda stuff before I was even old enough to legally drink. The thing is, we can go on and on about 0.8 or 1.0 or 0.6, etc. But until you have some ways of measuring it, we'll never know how it feels. All of those estimates based on % of alcholol, body weight, etc are just guesses. And considering how expensive drinking fines are, simply knowing "I'm fine to drive" doesn't hold up too well in court.
Note, from what I've read, most of these are not accurate in cold weather.
_________________________
Brad B.
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#254528 - 19/04/2005 19:50
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
But until you have some ways of measuring it, we'll never know how it feels
Whah? You know how you feel at that moment. If you have any question about whether you should drive, such that you'd reach for a device to tell you what your BAC is, then you shouldn't drive. Not every time you blow a 0.4 will feel the same, because there are a lot of other factors that contribute to how drunk you feel.
Quote:
And considering how expensive drinking fines are, simply knowing "I'm fine to drive" doesn't hold up too well in court.
Neither does a BAC reading obtained on a $30 toy from Sharper Image.
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#254529 - 19/04/2005 20:23
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tonyc]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Quote:
A driver caught with an open container faces a $100 fine, and the offense does not show up on a person's driving record.
Wow, that seems entirely ineffectual. How often have you been pulled over and checked to see what you're drinking?
On a side note, I'm from Florida, where as long as I can remember, it's been illegal to have an open container in your car. Now I live in Louisiana, and only last year was an open container law put into effect. Then again, New Orleans still has drive-through daquiri shops. They give you a 32 OZ daquiri in a styrofoam cup with a lid and a straw. It's not considered "open" until the straw is inserted. Umm, what?
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#254530 - 19/04/2005 20:37
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
If you have any question about whether you should drive, such that you'd reach for a device to tell you what your BAC is, then you shouldn't drive.
So If I have two beers after having had a huge meal or with several glasses of water and I feel totally fine but wonder how close I am to 0.08 because 0.08 is such a low number, that means I'm suddenly not in any condition to drive regardless of the fact that I feel 100% sober?
Quote:
Neither does a BAC reading obtained on a $30 toy from Sharper Image.
(There are devices available for around $100-200 that are more than toys. Some even compensate for ambient temperature.) Are you proposing that if I ever have one drop of alchohol within a several hour timespan, I shouldn't drive because the accuracy of a handheld device isn't 100% and the fact that I'm even curious and want to quantify how much alcohol is in my system and compare that to the legal standards means that I'm shouldn't drive? Just like Tony Fabris, I'm curious.
The fact is, "0.08" is an abstract number. If I feel totally fine after only two beers during a hockey game but I then learn that regardless of the fact that I feel sober I'm in fact blowing a 0.07 it might open my eyes to how low the legal limit really is. (And would make that beer not worth getting the next time around). Or, I might blow on the thing and see I barely register on the scale. Then I'd know I was either being a little paranoid or there were other factors at play.
I don't binge drink nor do I ever drive if I feel that there is a real chance that I may have had too much to drink. But just because I want to compare what my sense of "fine to drive" is the legal definition of "fine to drive" doesn't mean I've automatically become legally impared. Curiousity isn't a good enough reason to call a cab.
_________________________
Brad B.
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#254531 - 19/04/2005 20:46
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: lectric]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
On a side note, I'm from Florida, where as long as I can remember, it's been illegal to have an open container in your car.
Wow, I thought that at least since the late 70's, open alcohol in a car was illegal in the entire US! I can only guess that states that still allow this have very low rates of alcohol related car accidents or the businesses that sell them have a strong lobby. Either way, it doesn't seem right.
It's funny you brought up Florida though. When I was there for my honeymoon, my wife and I couldn't get used to the fact that you could walk down the street with a drink and carry it from bar to bar. I guess it would keep people from finishing their drinks too quickly so they could leave, but it also seems like trying to control under-age drinking would be impossible. This was in Ft. Lauderdale, I'm not sure if it's a state-wide thing.
We only tried it once. The whole time we walked along the road watching the sunset, we couldn't relax because we thought we were breaking the law! 
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Brad B.
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#254532 - 19/04/2005 21:53
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
So If I have two beers after having had a huge meal or with several glasses of water and I feel totally fine but wonder how close I am to 0.08 because 0.08 is such a low number, that means I'm suddenly not in any condition to drive regardless of the fact that I feel 100% sober?
Wow. The fact that you think "with several glasses of water" changes your sobriety in any way, shape, or form tells a lot about your understanding of this issue.
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#254533 - 19/04/2005 22:01
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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ridiculously low "intoxication" levels.
So far as I am concerned, that is an oxymoron.
If you are gong to drive, there is no such thing as being intoxicated by a "ridiculously low" amount. If it is measurable at all, you have no business piloting a two-ton lethal weapon anywhere in my vicinity.
I have seen demonstrations put on by our local police department using volunteers: the volunteers drive through a course marked out by pylons, and their abilities are noted.
Then, they start feeding them drinks, and repeating the test. Long before the volunteers feel that they are impaired, they are running over pylons, and missing the course. The scary thing is, they are still well under the .08% BAC that would make them illegal to drive.
I have always thought it was the height of lunacy that that bars have parking lots...
Anyway, that's my hot button for the day, and I don't really expect much agreement. I don't drink at all, not because I have anything against alcohol, but because I just don't like the taste of it and the loss of control that goes with it. I have no problems whatsoever with other people drinking -- as long as they stay the hell off of any road with 100 miles of me.
tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#254534 - 19/04/2005 22:30
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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Agreed. 100% (or more).
_________________________
Donato MkII/080000565 MkIIa/010101253 ricin.us
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#254535 - 19/04/2005 22:30
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Ah, Doug, reason more for that Istria vacation! We have zero limit (0.00%, that is, anything over 50 ppm is illegal). Used to be 0.05%.
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#254536 - 19/04/2005 22:38
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
Quote:
So If I have two beers after having had a huge meal or with several glasses of water and I feel totally fine but wonder how close I am to 0.08 because 0.08 is such a low number, that means I'm suddenly not in any condition to drive regardless of the fact that I feel 100% sober?
Wow. The fact that you think "with several glasses of water" changes your sobriety in any way, shape, or form tells a lot about your understanding of this issue.
Will you please get off of your high horse and stop being so condescending towards me?
_________________________
Brad B.
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#254537 - 19/04/2005 22:59
Re: Toy for the 13 steppers
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
Will you please get off of your high horse and stop being so condescending towards me?
I haven't meant to be condescending towards you before. I try to stick to the issues. The only gripe I have about your actions here on the board is that often times, when someone disagrees with you or points out a flaw in your logic, you take it as a personal attack, or say "why do I even bother?" implying that the rest of us aren't even worth your time in explaining your side of the story, or more perplexingly, state that a large group of people has a personal vendetta against you.
I enjoy hearing different points of view, and responding to them, because it sharpens my own knowledge of whatever is being discussed. That being said, it's a real downer when someone comes in who is more than happy to poke holes at others' arguments, but throws up his hands or runs away pouting when it comes back the other way.
In any event, I'm sorry to offend you. I was just pointing out your inaccurate portrayal of water as something that affects sobriety in any way. If you'd like to explain that, I'll be happy to continue our discussion in a non-adversarial manner.
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