#268153 - 27/10/2005 10:30
empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with click
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Help me please!!! My empeg isn't very well. I put it into the car and got the "Hard disk not found - contact support" error message. So I bought it into the house and tried plugging it into the power cable and nothing appeared on the screen and the drives didn't spin up And now it's making a ticking noise and the LED is flashing quickly in time with the ticking. I've got it apart in front of me and have removed the hard drives to ensure it's not them ticking and it still ticks without them connected. HELP!!!! Any ideas what could be wrong with it? I hope it's nothing terminal!! 
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#268154 - 27/10/2005 13:06
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with click
[Re: furtive]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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You have a power supply short somewhere. The clicking noise is probably the polyfuse blowing and resetting. Check you don't have any small metal objects lurking around on the pcb (screws, metal filings, crowbars, etc). Remove the power supply jumpers labelled +3V (one jumper) and +5v (two jumpers) and try again. If you don't get the noise, the short is in the main circuitry. If you DO get the noise, the power supply probably has a fault. If it's not a loose bit of conductive crap, you may have a fairly serious problem pca
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#268155 - 27/10/2005 13:10
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with click
[Re: pca]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Thanks
Do I remove the jumpers and apply power, or remove the jumpers, wait a bit, put the jumpers back and apply power?
And I'm not sure which jumpers you mean. I have the following:
1 x 3v (blue jumper)
2 x 6v (blue jumpers)
1 x 10v (red jumper)
1 x 5v (red jumper)
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#268156 - 27/10/2005 16:59
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Remove the jumpers and then apply power with them still out.
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#268157 - 27/10/2005 17:17
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: tman]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Which ones? 
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#268158 - 27/10/2005 20:14
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Right I had a play with the jumpers.
With all the blue ones removed (they are the ones nearest the power socket) I get no clicking and no flashing LED
With the 2 x 6v jumpers in place but the one 3v jumper removed, I get the clicking but the blue USB LED on the rear flashes rather than the blue LED on the front.
With the single 3v jumper in place but the 2 6v jumpers removed I get the clicking but no LED's flashing.
So which part of my empeg is termally ill, and is it dead forever, or will it be able to rise again?
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#268159 - 27/10/2005 21:11
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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What I would suggest is disconnecting your disks completely and repeating the exercise. I have once seen a drive with a seized motor that drew a lot of current and caused this "blow/reset" cycle you are seeing.
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#268160 - 28/10/2005 05:01
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: schofiel]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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The above test was done with the drives removed
If indeed this is termainal, is there anyone in the UK or Europe actually doing repairs these days?
Edited by furtive (28/10/2005 05:35)
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#268161 - 28/10/2005 08:12
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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Hi.
OK, this could be bad. It sounds like your power supply may be ok, but there is a short on both the main 3v and 5v (not 6v, the silk screen can be a little unclear) rails on the board, on the other side of the jumpers. Do you have a multimeter? If so, measure the voltage between each of the inner pins of the 3v and 5v headers with the jumpers removed and the power on, and ground (middle screw in the PCB is as good as anywhere). By inner pins I mean the pin each pair nearest the power supply chip (max1631). The voltage should be 3 and 5 volts respectively, to a couple of percent. Then, turn the power off, wait a minute or so, and measure the resistance between the other pin of each pair and ground. This should be quite high, on the order of several hundred to several thousand ohms.
If you find, as I suspect, that you have the correct voltage on the psu, but nearly zero ohms to ground on both power rails, you have a short linking both internal power planes to the ground plane. Normally this is caused by a foreign object somewhere, perhaps under the pcb.
pca
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#268162 - 28/10/2005 08:20
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: pca]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Thanks
I have a multimeter, but I'm no expert in weilding it. I'll have a crack though.
If there isn't a foreign object under the PCB am I looking at an unrepairable empeg or is there still hope?
A quick question - could having mismatched speakers or a short in the speakers somewhere cause damage to the unit (just want to make sure I haven't done something daft with my car!)
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#268163 - 31/10/2005 03:56
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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A quick question - could having mismatched speakers or a short in the speakers somewhere cause damage to the unit
No.
Your empeg is not driving your speakers. It is feeding a line-level signal to your amplifer(s), and the amplifiers will take the brunt of any wiring errors connected with the speakers.
tanstaafl.
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#268164 - 02/11/2005 15:42
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: pca]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Right, I've weilded my multimeter
Voltage on either of 5V pins = about 4.56V
Voltage on the 3V pin = 0.58V (but about 3V on the outer pin)
Resistance between all 3 >1000 ohms
So what's the diagnosis? 
EDIT: On close inspection of the MAX1631 chip I can see this:
Close-up
Could it be causing a problem or not? It looks like it's just a bit of solder so I would have thought if it was going to cause a problem it would have done so years ago? And how best to remove it if you think it could be causing a problem? And could it have done some permanent damage?
Edited by furtive (02/11/2005 16:18)
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#268165 - 02/11/2005 17:38
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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What pin numbers are they?
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#268166 - 02/11/2005 18:06
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: tman]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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I'm not sure - how do I tell? Here is the full chip if it's any help: 
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#268167 - 02/11/2005 18:12
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Doesn't that little circle on the top of the chip indicate pin 1?
If so, then the pins in question are 5 and 6.
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#268168 - 02/11/2005 18:17
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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They are supposed to be connected together.
Stu
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#268169 - 02/11/2005 18:26
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Have you removed the main board to see if there is anything loose in there yet? This is always the starting point.
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#268170 - 02/11/2005 18:44
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: schofiel]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Not yet.
I assume I just need to undo all the screws and lift it out?
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#268171 - 02/11/2005 18:48
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I assume I just need to undo all the screws and lift it out?
Well, slightly more complex than that. Click here for details on how to properly remove the motherboard.
Be super careful of the display board connection. If you get it off by one pin you blow stuff.
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#268172 - 03/11/2005 11:03
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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I would not worry about pin offsets when you are dismantling: what I am talking about is pulling the board to get a look inside the case and under the main board to look at whether there is anything shorting out tracks.
I would suggest doing this and powering up the board with no display or drives connected to reduce the scope of the problem. With a bare main board, pull the jumpers, measure the 4 voltage rails again, and then reconnect them to see what it does. At the moment, the shutdown circuitry on the PSU seems to be working OK and it's protecting itself, so you should be OK.
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#268173 - 03/11/2005 11:35
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: schofiel]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Ok, I've just dismantled it all and there was no sign of bodies - foreign or otherwise under the mainboard.
With a bare mainboard and jumpers pulled I get the same results as before when testing for voltage and resistance.
Voltage on either of 5V pins = about 4.56V
Voltage on the 3V pin = 0.58V (but about 3V on the outer pin)
Resistance between all 3 >1000 ohms
Does it look like I'm going to have to book a holiday in Amersfoort?
Edited by furtive (03/11/2005 12:11)
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#268174 - 06/11/2005 01:00
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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member
Registered: 20/02/2002
Posts: 158
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I had a major problem w/ my empeg, completely messed up the display connector from the MB to the display (pins gone, pads removed from the MB -bad-). A fella with the name of "farmtech" on here was able to give life back to my player, it was amazing. Took quite a bit of work, did a custom hardwired display cable from other pads on the mb, etc etc. It looks like he hasn't been on here in a while, but let him know I sent you. He has about 15 years of history as an electrical hobbiest. He didn't overcharge me or anything. If you aren't able to get ahold of him via here, PM me and i'll give you his e-mail address.
good luck
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#268175 - 06/11/2005 01:11
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: Narkotic]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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I think we had a crack at that didn't we? I believe we decided we didn't have enough time to mess with it.
Lately we have quite a bit of time, so you can contact me through the Eutronix link above if you are interested. We do a lot of the repairs in the US.
Stu
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#268176 - 06/11/2005 07:53
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: maczrool]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Thaks guys, although as I am in the UK it might be easier to get it fixed closer to home if possible.
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#268177 - 06/11/2005 21:38
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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That's right you did say that. Maybe Rob can help you then. I don't know what his backlog is like though.
Stu
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#268178 - 24/11/2005 16:36
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: maczrool]
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journeyman
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 59
Loc: Herts, UK
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Have you checked all the surface mount quick blow fuses?
I had the same type of problem and this was it.
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#268179 - 24/11/2005 20:30
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: Nobbie]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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How do I check them? What do they look like and how do I know if they are blown?
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#268180 - 24/11/2005 20:40
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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enthusiast
Registered: 18/12/2000
Posts: 342
Loc: South-West-Germany
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BTW:
In Antwort auf:
Does it look like I'm going to have to book a holiday in Amersfoort?
No need for that, RobS lives in Cambridge now...
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cheers, Thomas
new owner of the MK1 00123
MK2 12GB 090000815 (my first one)
MK2a 040103735 (from 303) and ???
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#268181 - 25/11/2005 07:44
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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journeyman
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 59
Loc: Herts, UK
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see here http://www.mrmunsell.com/EMPEG/Fuse_Replacement/fuse_replacement.htmlAlso in the pic that say it most likely to be this fuse, also check the cont on the fuse located in-line with the lower pins 3 and 4.
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#268182 - 25/11/2005 07:59
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: Nobbie]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Thanks.
You know you are bidding against yourself here though - If I fix it, I won't need to buy the one on ebay 
EDIT: Oooh, you are in luck. Those instructions are far more than my ham-fistedness can muster. I was hoping it would be as easy as changing a fuse in my car 
I will test the fuses though before sending the board off for repair (I must get round to doing that!) so that if one has blown I can point Rob in the right direction to fix it.
Edited by furtive (25/11/2005 08:02)
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#268183 - 25/11/2005 10:51
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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journeyman
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 59
Loc: Herts, UK
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Yeah i know, but hey i'm a nice guy. Do a cont test, and see, it it is the fuse i have some spares, and depending where you are could have a look at it, but either way do the cont check and then we will know for sure that it can be fixed.
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#268184 - 04/01/2006 18:07
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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Right I've tested continuity in the threefuses in question and they all seem to be fine.
I've packed the mainboard up and will be shipping it off for repair tomorrow...
Edited by furtive (04/01/2006 18:27)
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#268185 - 03/05/2007 18:54
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: furtive]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Right I had a play with the jumpers.
With all the blue ones removed (they are the ones nearest the power socket) I get no clicking and no flashing LED
With the 2 x 6v jumpers in place but the one 3v jumper removed, I get the clicking but the blue USB LED on the rear flashes rather than the blue LED on the front.
With the single 3v jumper in place but the 2 6v jumpers removed I get the clicking but no LED's flashing.
Did this player ever come back to life again? I'm afraid I'm not asking out of the usual Empeg attentiveness to customers, but because my own car-player, 80000211, has just gone down with exactly this problem. It was plugged-in and sleeping quietly upstairs, I unplugged it and took it downstairs and plugged it in, and it started with the tick, tick, tick problem.
I've removed the main board, and fiddled with the jumpers, and got exactly the same results you did above. No foreign bodies are anywhere in evidence
Peter
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#268186 - 06/05/2007 19:30
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Try unplugging the display board connector - maybe it's the 60v supply that has gone?
Hugo
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#268187 - 07/05/2007 08:29
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Try unplugging the display board connector - maybe it's the 60v supply that has gone?
It still does it even with an uncased, diskless, displayless mainboard. Removing loose screws or crap from under the board I could just-about have dealt with myself, but at this point it's definitely time for this player to seek the Schofield...
Peter
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#268188 - 08/05/2007 23:53
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Or I can take a look when I'm back in Cambridge next month? Will work for cider  Hugo
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#268189 - 09/05/2007 09:10
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
Will work for cider
So THAT'S how Jobs persuaded you over to the dark side!
Rob
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#268190 - 09/05/2007 12:21
Re: empeg dead - clicking noise and led flashes quickly in time with c
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Or I can take a look when I'm back in Cambridge next month? Will work for cider
Heh, I know how much you enjoy tinkering with car-players, and I was toying with the idea of sending it over with the boy Neil at the end of the month. But Rob's local, so that just seemed more sensible  and besides, he's got all the spares now -- Lucie rescued the last box of chips and what-not from the skip the other day, and we handed them to Rob.
Peter
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#268191 - 11/05/2007 07:35
Live from Teh Internets, this week's "I am a nitwit"
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
at this point it's definitely time for this player to seek the Schofield...
*cough* Dead power supply *cough* 
Peter
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#268192 - 11/05/2007 10:26
Re: Live from Teh Internets, this week's "I am a nitwit"
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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That sounds like good news!
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#268193 - 17/05/2007 12:58
Re: Live from Teh Internets, this week's "I am a nitwit"
[Re: mlord]
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member
Registered: 08/03/2002
Posts: 145
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Grrr... my Empeg Serial 30102889 got the same problem.
Took it partially apart but can't see anything foreign.
Do empeg still have support in the cambridge area?
C.
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#268194 - 17/05/2007 13:11
Re: Live from Teh Internets, this week's "I am a nitwit"
[Re: cookie_77]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Do empeg still have support in the cambridge area?
RobS is in Cambridge. He's still doing support, when he gets time.
_________________________
-- roger
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#268195 - 17/05/2007 14:11
Re: Live from Teh Internets, this week's "I am a nitwit"
[Re: cookie_77]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Grrr... my Empeg Serial 30102889 got the same problem.
Took it partially apart but can't see anything foreign.
If it really is the same problem, try a different power supply. That's all that was wrong with mine.
Peter
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#268196 - 17/05/2007 14:52
Re: Live from Teh Internets, this week's "I am a nitwit"
[Re: peter]
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member
Registered: 08/03/2002
Posts: 145
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yeah i suspected the power supply but i don't have another sutible.
12-15v 1amp is the required power supply?
C.
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#268197 - 17/05/2007 15:19
Re: Live from Teh Internets, this week's "I am a nitwit"
[Re: cookie_77]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
yeah i suspected the power supply but i don't have another sutible.
12-15v 1amp is the required power supply?
12-15V, at least 1amp, yes. More than 1 amp would also be fine. (The FAQ goes into more detail but that's basically it.)
Peter
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