#268482 - 01/11/2005 13:44
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Tim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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um . . . wow. They are sinking pretty low these days aren't they? I am rapidly considering if I really need to buy any more music from the RIAA.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268483 - 01/11/2005 14:20
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Tim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I guess that means my decision never to insert an audio CD without starting up EAC and disabling Autorun first now seems a little less paranoid.
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Bitt Faulk
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#268484 - 01/11/2005 14:40
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
...disabling Autorun...
Yeah, I have always left autorun enabled because it is so useful. I think it might be time to disable it now.
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#268485 - 01/11/2005 14:47
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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If you haven't already done so, I recommend installing TweakUI, a Microsoft PowerToy that makes setting this kind of thing much easier.
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#268486 - 01/11/2005 15:40
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: andy]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
...disabling Autorun...
Yeah, I have always left autorun enabled because it is so useful. I think it might be time to disable it now.
Disabling autorun is one of the first things I do on any new system or reinstall. It never picked the right application to play what media was on the CD (even if the defaults were set), etc. I always found it less of a pain to do it manually. That doesn't make me feel any better about this, though.
- Tim
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#268487 - 01/11/2005 16:29
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Tim]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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And, for all you system administrators out there, you can disable it enterprise-wide via a group policy setting in Active Directory.
-Zeke
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WWFSMD?
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#268488 - 01/11/2005 16:38
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
um . . . wow. They are sinking pretty low these days aren't they? I am rapidly considering if I really need to buy any more music from the RIAA.
I've been wondering this recently, but how do I go about finding out who isn't an RIAA artist? Do they have a logo on their CDs or something?
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Matt
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#268489 - 01/11/2005 17:24
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
I've been wondering this recently, but how do I go about finding out who isn't an RIAA artist? Do they have a logo on their CDs or something?
I don't know- it'd be good if there were a resource to find out exactly that. I'm pretty sure that noone on CD Baby is RIAA, but that's only because they are all independent artists hint, hint. Truth be told, I bought far more independent CDs last year than major artists. Even if I don't quit cold-turkey, I still feel good that I'm supporting the indie artists more than the record companies.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268490 - 01/11/2005 17:53
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
how do I go about finding out who isn't an RIAA artist?
RIAA Radar
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Bitt Faulk
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#268491 - 01/11/2005 18:25
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: wfaulk]
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new poster
Registered: 19/08/2005
Posts: 38
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
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Sweet. Thanks for the link. A little keyword search in Firefox and bam, I know if I can buy the album or not.
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Mark IIa -- #30103119 -- 70 gig w/ ext3 fs-- Eutronix Light Kit -- Greenlight buttons
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#268492 - 01/11/2005 19:27
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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You're the man, Bitt. And a big "WOOHOO!" for my favorite artist of all time, Mark Lanegan. Every one of his albums is safe. That's an excellent resource. I think I'll be using that often. Quote:
Truth be told, I bought far more independent CDs last year than major artists.
That's pretty much the case with my own listening habits. I'm rarely buying something from a big act anymore (except for the White Stripes).
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Matt
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#268493 - 01/11/2005 20:30
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
You're the man, Bitt.
Agree, thanks for the link.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268494 - 03/11/2005 01:13
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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That's a great link; thanks.
I will never buy another Sony/BMG CD after this incident. There is nothing lower than a rootkit on an audio CD (unless they made a hack to fool the firmware of your harddrive into not seeing the malicious code).
Yes, I disable Autorun during my install process. And thanks for the reminder to disable it enterprise-wide using AD. I'm sick of seeing proprietary media players and band fan links installed all over my work computers from Audio CDs.
So often, technology is the worst thing that has happened to technology.
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- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#268496 - 03/11/2005 21:03
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Tim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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I still refuse to call these things CDs. Instead, shiny discs with music. Guess I'll have to go out and look for this one and do another round of buying, opening, and returning.
While the consumer voice might be tiny to the major labels, the voice of the retailers is much larger. If they see a flood of returns, the retailers aren't going to be happy and make noise about it.
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#268497 - 04/11/2005 11:31
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: drakino]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
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Well, they did release an uninstall program for it. I guess thats a start. The problem is that they did it in the first place, and those without the knowledge to fix the problem would just blame it on Windows slowing down or their computer going bad. All in all, really irresponsible of them.
- Tim
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#268498 - 04/11/2005 13:24
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Tim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
...and those without the knowledge to fix the problem would just blame it on Windows slowing down or their computer going bad.
Make that "will just blame it...". How many man-in-street-type people affected by this have actually even noticed the furore over this? They've still got it on their PC, and won't even realise.
Oh, and someone's already started using this to hide World of Warcraft hack programs.
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-- roger
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#268499 - 04/11/2005 14:49
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Roger]
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addict
Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 434
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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F-secure has released a rootkit scanner kit (beta) to get rid of these things for non-technical people. Right now it is a free beta trial program but there are planning to add it to their Internet Secutiry suite for 2006. They have some commentary about this episode on their blog also. On a related note the RIAA is also trying to make devices like the XM MyFi illegal now... XMFan.com discussion
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#268500 - 05/11/2005 00:10
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Ezekiel]
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addict
Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
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Quote:
And, for all you system administrators out there, you can disable it enterprise-wide via a group policy setting in Active Directory.
-Zeke
Would you mind telling me where I do that and how I do that? I tried a search on Microsoft, but didn't find anything clear about it. Found something about NoDriveTypeAutoRun with a REG_DWORD of 0x20 to disable CDROM, but I didn't understand much of it... 
Stig
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#268501 - 05/11/2005 03:04
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: StigOE]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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I'll poke around when I get back to the office Monday & let you know. It sounds like you're looking at a registry entry. What I'm talking about is a network Domain, where a group policy is applied to a set of users. If you don't have a windows Domain, then using TweakUI is the way to go. -Zeke
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WWFSMD?
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#268502 - 05/11/2005 05:43
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Ezekiel]
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addict
Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
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Quote:
What I'm talking about is a network Domain, where a group policy is applied to a set of users.
Yes, so was I... I didn't see anywhere obvious to change it when I looked in Group Policy Editor in Windows Server 2003, but I thought I would have to set a registry value under the Registry "settings" there...
Hmm, seems like I might have found out how to do it. I had another look on the Microsoft site and had some more luck when searching... Time to see if I'm correct... 
Stig
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#268503 - 05/11/2005 14:03
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Tim]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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And the uninstall program isn't really an uninstall program - seems to be replacements for lots of the original files, plus a whole heap of other stuff.
Who knows what it now does? They are still denying the original software is a security risk, even though we have already seen exploits which take advantage of the $sys$ invisibility trick!
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#268504 - 05/11/2005 18:12
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Roger]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
...and those without the knowledge to fix the problem would just blame it on Windows slowing down or their computer going bad.
Make that "will just blame it...". How many man-in-street-type people affected by this have actually even noticed the furore over this? They've still got it on their PC, and won't even realise.
Thats what I meant, but worded it horribly. Depending on how much crap starts to piggy back off the $sys$, it might end in a lot of people taking their machines to techs to get flattened or maybe just buy a new one outright...
<paranoid>I wonder if it is a conspiracy between the record label and the computer divisions of Sony to increase their profits </paranoid> 
- Tim
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#268505 - 05/11/2005 19:49
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Roger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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I hate to see rootkits begin to elevate to "kiddie" status. First the overlong registry key name invisibility trick, now $sys$. Soon, anyone will be able to hide code from Windows.
Yet, no patches from Microsoft to fix this. They don't think its a problem. (someone please prove me wrong and show a link at least to the reg key name hack.)
I swear, the only hope for high security lies in hardware which monitors the hard drive, ram, and processor. If those components do something the hardware monitor doesn't expect (based on rule sets describing what the user expects), it logs and/or blocks the action.
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- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#268506 - 05/11/2005 20:56
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Yet, no patches from Microsoft to fix this. They don't think its a problem.
It isn't their problem. The user is the one that is installing stuff and in this case, it contains some drivers which affect how you see things. Go talk to Sony as it is nothing to do with Microsoft. If you think that Microsoft should prevent this from happening then you'll have to get them to ban all hardware manufacturers from releasing drivers.
Quote:
I swear, the only hope for high security lies in hardware which monitors the hard drive, ram, and processor. If those components do something the hardware monitor doesn't expect (based on rule sets describing what the user expects), it logs and/or blocks the action.
Uh huh... Are you sure you know what you're asking for? That's called Trusted Computing/Palladium and new equipment is beginning to have Trusted Platform Modules installed. They're aiming it for DRM however. If you don't have a totally legit PC with a totally stock installation of Windows with approved hardware and driverss then you're not going to be able to play your game, watch your film, use your word processor or whatever else they decide to "protect". The TPM can even prevent the OS from accessing certain parts of the disk and memory. Give it a few years and you won't be able to run any nonapproved applications at all and you as the owner won't have the ability to override it. Forget about trying to install any third party OS as well. Fun...
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#268507 - 06/11/2005 00:33
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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See this for a complete rundown on how to remove sony's rootkit including how to restore the CD to function.
edit: Ok I'd forgotten this whole thread started here. 
Edited by gbeer (06/11/2005 00:49)
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Glenn
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#268508 - 06/11/2005 06:01
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Quote:
Yet, no patches from Microsoft to fix this. They don't think its a problem.
It isn't their problem. The user is the one that is installing stuff and in this case, it contains some drivers which affect how you see things.
Well, there is one problem I can see here. Users are going to the store, buying what they think is a CD Audio disc, putting it into a stock Windows PC, and a few moments later they have a rootkit installed. Beyond putting in the CD, the user didn't do anything manually to install it. All thanks to technologies Microsoft built into the OS without thinking about the security implications. True, fault lies here with Sony, but it also does indeed also have some fault with Microsoft. As a counter example, my Mac doesn't auto run CDs put into it. And if a CD did try to install something like this, I'd at least see a warning sign in the form of an Administrator password prompt that something wasn't right.
Trying to make Microsoft seem innocent when they have a very long list of problems like this is silly. Should they be free of blame for the blatent holes in IE and Active X? I will admit I am glad to see Microsoft adopting a strong security stance now, but I cringe every time they make the same mistakes some variant of Unix did 10-20 years back. They don't learn from others histories. It took until Windows 2003 SP1 to decide that having full network connectivity and things like IIS running during the install was a bad idea. Even better, they still run things like printer drivers in the kernel level, allowing some bad code from some 3rd party printer driver to enable the entire system to come tumbling down. Imagine if your a small business running a single server as both a print and file server. One minor glitch in the print subsystem, and blam, the file server is down. Thankfully Vista is addressing this, but that means we all get to pad Microsoft's bottom line a little more to have security we should already have. It's a shame they are doing this, but at least they backed away from the idea of charging for spware protection, when it was the fault of their own browser and OS integration that spyware came to be.
Anyhow, to answer FireFox a bit, Microsoft does know of the issue, and does actually have a research project on it that had led to the release of software. The Strider Ghostbuster project was started in 2004 to help address the potential problems of rootkits. Hopefully they will learn the lessons of Unix here quicker, as rootkits have been a problem in the Unix world for nearly 15 years now. Quite a bit has been done in that world to help combat them, and hopefully soon the same can be said for Microsoft.
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#268509 - 06/11/2005 23:33
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
Beyond putting in the CD, the user didn't do anything manually to install it.
The user clicked "Accept" at the License Agreement.... which apparently stated nothing about the rootkit. Again, blame squarely on Sony.
Thanks for the rootkit research link.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#268510 - 07/11/2005 18:20
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Tim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Bitt Faulk
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#268511 - 07/11/2005 18:40
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Sheesh- looks like the days of bringing a CD to work to listen on your PC are over. Now Network Admins have to worry about store bought CDs containing viruses. Oh, wait, the days of bringing CDs to work was over when I bought my empeg . . .
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268512 - 07/11/2005 19:09
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: StigOE]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Stig,
The Group Policy setting is under:
GPNAME\User Configuration\Administrative Templates\System\Turn off Autoplay.
Screenshot attached.
-Zele
Attachments
268974-GPTurnOffAutoplay.gif (199 downloads)
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WWFSMD?
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#268513 - 08/11/2005 11:53
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: JeffS]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
Sheesh- looks like the days of bringing a CD to work to listen on your PC are over. Now Network Admins have to worry about store bought CDs containing viruses.
Oh, wait, the days of bringing CDs to work was over when I bought my empeg . . .
My company already started discussing prohibiting music CDs, thats where I got the original link (internal news server).
My only problem is that while my empeg is great for my desk, its not allowed in our labs. Since our labs are secured, there are no PDAs, laptops, cell phones, non-pressed discs, thumb drives, cameras (well, not even allowed on site), etc etc etc allowed. I have an awesome noise cancelling headset that I wear in there with the CDs that are actually allowed. If this change goes through, the choice is to either sit in the lab listening to silence, or take the headphones off and listen to the hum of all the computers, air handlers, etc. Thats a choice I'm really not looking forward to making.
- Tim
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#268514 - 08/11/2005 13:12
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Tim]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
If this change goes through, the choice is to either sit in the lab listening to silence, or take the headphones off and listen to the hum of all the computers, air handlers, etc. Thats a choice I'm really not looking forward to making.
Come on, now. Those are not your only choices.
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#268515 - 08/11/2005 18:04
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Tim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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the choice is to either sit in the lab listening to silence, or take the headphones off and listen to the hum of all the computers, air handlers, etc
Or... you could connect a wireless headphone setup to your empeg, sitting safely and "legally" on your desk, and listen to your empeg up to 300 feet away.
Would that work, or is your lab too great a distance from your desk?
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#268516 - 09/11/2005 05:04
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Ezekiel]
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addict
Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
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Thanks. I found it also under Computer Management. Would that be something different? I changed it in that place (found something on Microsoft, where Computer Management where mentioned).
Stig
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#268517 - 09/11/2005 06:29
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Sheesh- looks like the days of bringing a CD to work to listen on your PC are over.
For all intents and purposes, they already are, where I work. Not because we're worried about that (we're all linux on the desktop), but all our machines are locked away in a machine room with a big air-conditioner.  With the exception of driving in vehicles, I haven't listened to CDs or my Empeg in ages -- it's all streaming audio. Fortunately, they haven't clamped down on that, yet.
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#268518 - 09/11/2005 10:38
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: canuckInOR]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
it's all streaming audio. Fortunately, they haven't clamped down on that, yet.
Lucky you, that's not been an option at either of my last two jobs. I'd love to have streming audio as an option for finding new music while I work, but they are too worried about bandwidth and security.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268519 - 09/11/2005 21:11
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Tim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Article on msnbc. I don't really think this does a fair job of explaining what the problem with this is, but at least they mention some of the symptoms. My favorite quote from the article: Quote:
Jacobs says people just have to get used to music CDs behaving like software CDs.
NONE of my software CDs behave like this! 
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268520 - 09/11/2005 21:26
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: StigOE]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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This article covers the bases pretty well for disabling autoplay on a single machine.
-Zeke
NY Times article about antivirus companies taggining this crap (however not removing it, sadly).
Edited by Ezekiel (09/11/2005 21:45)
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WWFSMD?
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#268521 - 10/11/2005 04:32
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Ezekiel]
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addict
Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
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It wasn't Computer Management, it was Computer Configuration, the main branch above User Configuration in your screenshot that I changed. And I would like to do it domain-wise, instead of having to walk around to all the computers to disable it...
Stig
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#268522 - 10/11/2005 10:41
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Tim]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
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Its getting intresting now http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4424254.stmWhat really confuses me is if you read the article Why would you have to copy protect a celion dion CD? thats just too wierd
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P.Allison fixer of big engines
Mk2+Mk2a signed by God / Hacked by the Lord
Aberdeen Scotland
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#268523 - 10/11/2005 11:21
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: thinfourth2]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Quote:
Why would you have to copy protect a celion dion CD? thats just too wierd
Currently on a 3 hour conf call with a government department and 2 professional services suppliers.
They wondered what the choking laughter noise was...
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Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#268524 - 10/11/2005 11:21
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: thinfourth2]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Another interesting one in that list is Trey Anastasio's "Shine". Given his work with Phish, one of the bands that has always allowed taping and trading, it seems strange that he would approve any kind of viral copy protection.
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#268525 - 10/11/2005 11:58
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Another interesting one in that list is Trey Anastasio's "Shine". Given his work with Phish, one of the bands that has always allowed taping and trading, it seems strange that he would approve any kind of viral copy protection.
I doubt that the artists get much say in it. Taping a live performance is a very different thing from copying a CD that was paid for by the record company.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268526 - 10/11/2005 12:07
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: thinfourth2]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Its getting intresting now
Great link- thanks. I love that Symantec is releasing software to detect this thing. Kind of reveals its spots doesn't it?
I hope these lawsuits go somewhere- Sony & friends need to be held accountable for this.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#268527 - 10/11/2005 13:07
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Yeah, but Symantec is not removing it... Pity...
I hope the lawsuits go well, but I also really like the publicity this is getting. Remember - it is expensive for Sony to add copy protection to a CD title, due to the licensing involved. If all of their "protected" titles are publicly known and the sales of those CDs are less than expected, it might get Sony to think twice before using it.
Meanwhile, I just bought two new CDs from Sony (yes, shameful, I know) that do not appear to have the protection on them but still have huge FBI anti-piracy warnings all over the CDs and packaging. I so enjoy being made to feel like a criminal by the same people whose products I am buying...
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#268528 - 10/11/2005 14:08
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: pgrzelak]
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addict
Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
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Quote:
I so enjoy being made to feel like a criminal by the same people whose products I am buying...
And that right there is why I'm not wanting to buy anymore CDs, and DVDs from major labels.
I just bought a copy of Office Space, and when I put it in, the first thing that came up was that comercial about you'd not steal a purse...Copying a DVD is the same thing... Now if that would have not been skippable, I'd have been taking that DVD back.
Accusing the customer of being a thief is the best way of driving away business.
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--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.
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#268529 - 10/11/2005 14:59
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: BAKup]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
the first thing that came up was that comercial about you'd not steal a purse...
Yeah, that really pisses me off. I did buy the damn DVD. If they keep it up, I will go looking for it on some filesharing system somewhere, just to avoid the non-skippable crap at the start...
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-- roger
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#268530 - 10/11/2005 16:15
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Not to mention that the analogy is pretty lousy.
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Bitt Faulk
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#268531 - 10/11/2005 16:19
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: thinfourth2]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Its getting intresting now
All that lovely bad PR and now seemingly an LGPL violation too...
Peter
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#268532 - 10/11/2005 16:26
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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And in another happy development, a virus is now out that uses Sony's "protection" to hide itself.
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#268533 - 10/11/2005 18:04
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: BAKup]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Quote:
I just bought a copy of Office Space, and when I put it in, the first thing that came up was that comercial about you'd not steal a purse...
This is annoying in a further way.
One of the little jokes about the Office Space DVD (albeit somewhat dated now) is that it is supposed to look like you have a virus when you first insert the DVD, and you are supposed to be freaked out for about a second and a half until you realize it is bogus.
It was a little stupid watching this happen on a TV/DVD combo rather than a PC. But the "joke" is completely ruined if you have to watch a stupid anti-piracy commercial and/or some previews before the "virus problem" pops up.
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#268534 - 11/11/2005 01:50
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: StigOE]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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The screen shot I used was from a Group Policy which is applied to the entire domain. If you're not sure how to set a GP on the domain, I need to dig you up a link for some good basic Windows Domain info, since I'm sure that'd explain it better than I could. I'll see what I can find tomorrow, I'm just off to bed at the moment.
Edit: What's another minute or two? Here's a link from the good folks at MIT.
-Zeke
Edited by Ezekiel (11/11/2005 01:57)
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WWFSMD?
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#268535 - 11/11/2005 13:01
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Ezekiel]
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addict
Registered: 27/10/2002
Posts: 568
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Great. Thanks for the link. Looks like I have some reading to do... Stig
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#268536 - 12/11/2005 03:12
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: thinfourth2]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
XCP PROTECTED CDS
Our Lady Peace - Healthy in Paranoid Times
Haha, funny coincidental title. A shame, I would actually consider buying that CD. Rrrrrrrgh, not anymore. And it's sad to see those jazz guys on there. Oh well, Sony owns them, I guess.
Time for me to buy into digitally distributed music.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#268537 - 26/01/2006 08:28
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: FireFox31]
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member
Registered: 29/04/2002
Posts: 126
Loc: Virginia
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THIS IS WHY I PIRATE ALL MY MUSIC... or maybe more accurately all of Sony's music. LOL
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Build a man a fire-keep him warm for an evening-set him on fire-he is warm for the rest of his life.
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#268538 - 26/01/2006 12:08
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: stahimooney]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
THIS IS WHY I PIRATE ALL MY MUSIC... or maybe more accurately all of Sony's music. LOL
Are you sure copy protection is what's making you pirate music? When Macrovision was being used on VHS tapes, did that force you to steal the video somehow?
I own a legit copy of Healty in Paranoid Times. I had no trouble what-so-ever ripping it in a Windows environment. If you want to be a thief, that's fine. I just think it's too easy to blame copy protection for your lifestyle.
I don't steal music, but I'm not exactly holy when it comes to other content that can be shared over the internet. For that stuff, I can admit I'm a cheap ass (or lazy in some cases).
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-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#268539 - 26/01/2006 13:36
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Rob, if you walked in to a corner store, would you take a picture of a candy bar and walk out without paying a royalty to both the store owner and the confection's manufacturer? Stealing is stealing. Bruno
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#268541 - 26/01/2006 15:42
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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His point was that getting a copy of a piece of music doesn't deprive anyone along the supply chain of anything.
It's a semantic argument about what "steal" means. Namely, does it mean that you've taken something for free that someone wants you to pay for, or does it mean depriving someone of their property. If it's the former, illegal downloading of MP3s is stealing. If it's the latter, it's not. Then you can get into an argument about whether getting it for free is depriving the supplier of the cash they would normally have gotten for that service and if the consumer would have just not bothered if it wasn't free to him.
Of course, the publisher wants you to pay $1 for any given piece of music, whereas allofmp3 will sell it to you for much less than that. It seems to be legal (especially for Russian citizens), but it still might be considered stealing by the publisher, and by, my first definition above, is very close to it.
But that's all okay because people who want to download it for free are going to continue to do so regardless of any of these issues. And the publishers trying so hard to hang onto their status quo are going to try to prevent them, regardless of any of these definitions. On both sides, people are much more likely to speak in platitudes, gross generalizations, and inept metaphors than actually speak to the actual issues involved. And that makes those of us in the middle of the issue both irritated and, somehow, incapable of not using those same methods.
And the extreme stances both sides take tend to push moderates to one side or the other, like the repulsion of a strong magnet. While it's somewhat true that this is just a new argument for people who have always downloaded music without paying for it, every time the music industry goes on the offensive, it just pushes the moderates who would like more reasonable access to their music closer and closer to the freeloaders. Especially measures that they take to prevent people who have paid for the music to listen to it in the manner they desire, starting with the warning logos, to the copy protection, to the rootkits. All the while apparently ignoring the real issue of organized criminals making bootlegs to sell on the street corners.
It's really time someone sat down and had an honest discussion about the issues involved instead of just sniping at each other and trying to blur the issues.
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Bitt Faulk
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#268542 - 26/01/2006 17:18
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: wfaulk]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
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Would you consider sleeping in a hotel room that you didn't pay for as stealing? What if the room was vacant, so you just slipped in there? How about sneaking into the movies without paying by using the back door?
None of those situations are exactly 'stealing', since possession was never taken from the owner. Of course, you are benefiting and enjoying from something (call it 'content' if you want, especially in the form of the movie or music) that normally requires compensation. Stealing might not be the right word, but the owner is being denied a source on income - on top of any moral or ethical issues (which people like the guy Rob referred to obviously don't have). It can be couched or justified any way people want, but that doesn't make it right.
- Tim
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#268543 - 26/01/2006 18:45
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Tim]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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There is the problem, however, which Bitt mentioned, that the MPAA et al, through their heavy tactics of trying to liken breach of copyright to theft or piracy, are pushing the moderates to the freeloader side. What would appear (IMHO) to be the case, is that the MPAA have got their tactics sooo wrong. They can't successfully bring in any copy protection. Everything they do only annoys the user - the professionals (these days organised gangs) have minimal problems circumventing DRM, copy protection, watermarking etc.
MPAA/RIAA etc should get a grip and come to terms with the way the world is. The business model no longer holds true - which is good for artists and listeners. No middlemen needed, and listeners are more likely to pay for their CDs as it will be cheaper, and more goes to the artist.
a win all round in my book
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#268544 - 26/01/2006 19:57
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#268545 - 26/01/2006 21:04
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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It's really time someone sat down and had an honest discussion about the issues
Bitt, thank you for an excellent post.
FWIW, my attitude toward music piracy has changed dramatically in the past few years.
I used to be resolutely, nay, rabidly against downloading or otherwise acquiring music without payment (just do a search for my posts with key word piracy) but since the RIAA began their draconian and tyrannical persecutions, since Sony began installing rootkit viruses on my computer, since I am now being treated as a thief when I buy CDs and DVDs (with DRM and mandatory warnings)... I say FSCK them!
Probably by now 5-10% of the 2000 or so hours of audio in my empeg is not legitimately acquired.
I still sleep well at night.
tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#268547 - 26/01/2006 22:23
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
I used to be resolutely, nay, rabidly against downloading or otherwise acquiring music without payment (just do a search for my posts with key word piracy) but since the RIAA began their draconian and tyrannical persecutions, since Sony began installing rootkit viruses on my computer, since I am now being treated as a thief when I buy CDs and DVDs (with DRM and mandatory warnings)... I say FSCK them!
I don't disagree and I'm no fan of the RIAA. I really like music. A lot. Many times the quality of downloaded music is garbage... not to mention the tagging. I buy music on physical media because of this (I rip into FLAC then transcode into LAME -extreme MP3s). I also like having the artwork.
Truthfully, the RIAA almost never sees any money from me. I buy almost all my CDs from half.com and 75% of the time they're promos. Most of the other time they're used. I just bought 5 CDs today for about $40 (inclusive of shipping) and I think all of them were either gold-stamped promos or UPC punched.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#268548 - 26/01/2006 23:31
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Many times the quality of downloaded music is garbage...Many times? How about just about all the time! I don't download my stolen audio, I get it from friends who do a good job of encoding. tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#268549 - 27/01/2006 14:29
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Allofmp3.com - you define the quality. Yay! And This helps restore my faith in humanity
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#268550 - 27/01/2006 14:32
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: frog51]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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The quality of the tracks on allofmp3 could potentially be quite bad. Quite a few are uploaded by users as 320kbps MP3s which is then transcoded to whatever you select. Nothing stopping a user from transcoding a crappy 128kbps album they find on a P2P network into a 320kbps MP3 to get more download credit either.
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#268551 - 27/01/2006 14:38
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: tman]
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old hand
Registered: 01/10/2002
Posts: 1039
Loc: Fullerton, Calif.
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I breifly tried allofmp3 and half of what I got from them ended 5 seconds early.
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#268552 - 27/01/2006 14:39
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: frog51]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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Just noticed emusic.com seem to have got their hands on the Stiff records back catalogue
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#268553 - 27/01/2006 15:00
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: tman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Hmmm - all of the tracks I have requested have had to be encoded by them at my specified rates - usually VBR. For some it means I have to wait up to a week, but the quality is uniformly excellent!
Every time.
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#268554 - 27/01/2006 15:10
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: larry818]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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Quote:
I breifly tried allofmp3 and half of what I got from them ended 5 seconds early.
Never had any problems with allofmp3
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#268555 - 27/01/2006 15:11
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: frog51]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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What exact settings do you go for Rory?
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#268556 - 27/01/2006 15:33
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: frog51]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Hmmm - all of the tracks I have requested have had to be encoded by them at my specified rates - usually VBR. For some it means I have to wait up to a week, but the quality is uniformly excellent!
It has been like that for ages. They call it Online Encoding and transcode on the fly for you. I've never had to wait a week though, the most was a couple of hours. I can't find the upload system at the moment but they used to give you download credit by submitting albums that were requested. The compression system they wanted when I last looked at it was 320kbps MP3
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#268557 - 27/01/2006 18:53
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: tman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
The compression system they wanted when I last looked at it was 320kbps MP3
That was the one thing that always put me off allofmp3. Offering transcoding service from lossy files just isn't The Right Way To Do Things.
Matthew
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#268558 - 27/01/2006 19:49
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: matthew_k]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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hmmm - just run a test and downloaded two files I already have ripped myself, and they sound pretty much the same, both in the car and on my home setup....
And my friends typically reckon I am fussier about music quality than most.
YMMV
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#268559 - 28/01/2006 17:24
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
organized criminals making bootlegs to sell on the street corners.
I've never understood why I see SO many of these guys on the streets of NYC (most often selling bootleg movies). Maybe the law enforcement has more to worry about than this non-violient crime. So the bottom-line maintaining intentions of the record companies have no teeth on the street.
I've simply stopped buying, downloading, and otherwise obtaining new music all together. College radio and my collection suite me fine. This is a problem...
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#268560 - 28/01/2006 17:29
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: robricc]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
gold-stamped promos or UPC punched.
Isn't it illigal to sell / purchase promos? Trying to remember back to my days working at the local record store, I don't think we could purchase used promos from clients. I don't think we even sold the ones we received from publishers. The owners occasionally gave them to the workers for free!
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#268561 - 28/01/2006 17:32
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: tman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
to give you download credit by submitting albums that were requested
So, they have qualities of an illigal MP3 trading ratio FTP site? Maybe they justify it: they're "paying" you for your upload time/effort. We're still talking about allofmp3, right?
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#268562 - 28/01/2006 18:13
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
Maybe they justify it: they're "paying" you for your upload time/effort.
I think that was what they said. As previously mentioned, it seems to have disappeared from their website.
Quote:
We're still talking about allofmp3, right?
Yup.
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#268563 - 28/01/2006 19:33
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
Isn't it illigal to sell / purchase promos?
I have some large number of promo CDs that I bought from the used bins at Amoeba in the early 90's. I don't know if they're still there, but they certainly had them back when I frequented the place. Also, several of those used CD jewel boxes also had a slice cut out of their spine. I wonder whether this was / is analogous to the admonition you see in many books these days, e.g., "if you bought this book without a cover on it, then it's stolen property."
(Now, whether Amoeba was violating the law or not, I cannot say...)
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#268564 - 28/01/2006 20:06
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: matthew_k]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Quote:
Quote:
The compression system they wanted when I last looked at it was 320kbps MP3
That was the one thing that always put me off allofmp3. Offering transcoding service from lossy files just isn't The Right Way To Do Things.
More recent additions are now compressed from the original. Strangely enough, older stuff, transcoded from 320bps to lame -ap standard still sounds very good to me, and tags are resonably accurate (but still require checking, of course).
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#268565 - 28/01/2006 23:55
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Here's a step in the right direction.
Edited by mlord (28/01/2006 23:56)
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#268566 - 29/01/2006 03:45
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: bonzi]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
More recent additions are now compressed from the original.
Glad to hear they've come round. I doubt I could hear the difference either, it just makes me feel better. (Does worrying about quality I can't hear make me an audiophile? should I start investing in $1k sets of cables?)
Matthew
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#268567 - 29/01/2006 04:11
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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No, CDs with a slice out of the spine, or a hole though it, are the CD equivalent of cut-out records, which are effectively the same thing as remaindered books. That is, ones that have been returned to the publisher for a refund and are then sent back out to resellers at a discount.
Books that have had the cover removed are also books that have been returned to the publisher as unsold for a refund. Publishers aren't interested in having the whole book shipped back to them when the books are mass-market paperbacks (which are most of the smaller common paperbacks you see), so they just get the resellers to send back the cover and trust them to throw away the rest of the book. In practice, many of those stripped books go home with the bookseller employees. Magazines are often treated the same way. And this has been going on for at least 25 years, probably longer, so it's not a new thing. I know I've seen the notice in books for at least the last 15.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#268568 - 30/01/2006 11:37
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: FireFox31]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
Isn't it illigal to sell / purchase promos?
Every promo I have ever seen (quite a few of them, used to be the Music Director at the radio station at school) had writing on both the inserts as well as the CDs themselves that said it was illegal to resell them. Whether or not people actually pay attention to that is an entirely different matter. Based on how rampant piracy is, selling the promo copies probably isn't getting a lot of attention.
- Tim
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#268569 - 30/01/2006 19:51
Re: Fun DRM Software
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Thank heavens for Canada
At last someone with a clue in a record label
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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