#287463 - 30/09/2006 21:38
My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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I've decided that in the past, I was spending way too much on TV service for how little I actually watched it. The PVR helped, but it also revealed to me how focused my TV watching is. I don't miss channel surfing, and I rarely watched live TV, so why am I still chained to 250 some channels for too much a month?
So for the month of October, I am going to attempt to still watch what I want, in a legal way, and see how it goes. I have a Mac Mini hooked to the HDTV, and now have a multipass subscription to The Daily Show. I bought The Office DVDs yesterday, and will look at buying the shows I want to watch in October off the iTunes store.
My first impressions are going to be of The Daily Show files off iTunes. One episode ended up being 250 megs, and is now 640x480. Quality wise, it looked better then my old method of recording it on the ReplayTV. The nice thing with the iTunes file is that it has no commercials in it, so much like the ReplayTV, I'm not touching the remote at all during playback. With the multipass subscription, the next 15 episodes will auto download to the machine when they are released, so all I have to do is grab the remote to activate Front Row, and select the show. From what I remember of The Daily Show release cycle, 16 shows ends up being about how many they do in a month, so this is going to cost me $10 a month to see.
Thus far one downside appears to be that not all the shows I want to watch are available on the iTunes store immediately. For example, the episodes of Mythbusters appear to be quite old, probably mirroring the first season DVD releases instead of having the newer shows. I've written the Discovery Channel to see if they have plans to change this anytime soon.
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#287464 - 01/10/2006 03:59
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Drakino, Please keep us posted on how this experiment works out. I'd love to do this also, but I think it would be difficult based on this: On HBO: Curb Your Enthusiasm specials like the recent Dane Cook standup, some movies, and others Survivor (guilty pleasure) Lost (in HD, this show is THE REASON for having a big TV) 24 (just "met" Kiefer tonight - see http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonbauer/257000061/The Office Reno 911 The Daily Show (haven't missed one episode in 4 years or so now) Saturday Night Live (Dane Cook is hosting tonight, btw) Prison Break - not fantastic, but still fun to watch (and in HD) Superbikes (Speed Channel) All of the MotoGP races (usually on Speed Channel too) Check Please Bay Area (on PBS) Maybe a few others that I can't think of. So I REALLY dig TV - but I really don't think I could get a lot of this if I ditched my DirecTV. $75 a month is ridiculous, imo, but when you really think about the AMOUNT of entertainment you get for that, it's probably a pretty good deal. I'm still interested in hearing about your experience... - Thanx - Jon
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#287465 - 01/10/2006 04:06
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Wow, good timing. I'm doing exactly the same thing. At the end of Oct. I'm canceling DirecTV, and all TV will either be OTA digital or downloaded or Netflixed. I might have to find an old series 2 Tivo for the OTA stuff... but haven't started researching the free guide data possibility. Ultimately, I want to have a Mac Mini with a TV tuner and a big ass NAT drive that will do it all. But a new Macbook Pro will have to come first so I can rid myself of PCs all together (praying Maya will run decently on a boot camp setup when the core 2 duo version is released). I could just use my old shuttle as a Windows Media PC... just don't want the headaches... there are ALWAYS headaches with Win PCs.
I'm half hoping the whole thing will just make me watch less TV overall... and maybe get more art done. But damn... I can't miss Lost or Sunny in Philly or The Office..
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#287466 - 01/10/2006 04:45
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: jbauer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Quote:
Saturday Night Live (Dane Cook is hosting tonight, btw)
Awesome! Just tuned in.
_________________________
10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)
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#287467 - 01/10/2006 04:59
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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There was a thread (slashdot?) on how the iTunes 640x480 files are merely poorly upsampled copies of the cheaper 320x200 files from there.. Apparently upsampling yourself in quicktime may produce better quality.
Cheers
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#287469 - 01/10/2006 17:27
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Saturday Night Live (Dane Cook is hosting tonight, btw)
Awesome! Just tuned in.
Yeah, thanks for the heads up. I caught the whole show... first time I've watched SNL in YEARS. It was actually FUNNY! It tapered severely at the end of the show... but damn, the first half was pretty damn funny.
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#287470 - 01/10/2006 17:55
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Dane Cook? Really? His stand up seems pretty lame to me. I'll admit that I did laugh once during his opening monologue/stand-up routine (at the "you can drive through ghosts" line), but I found it otherwise totally unfunny. He kinda reminds me of Kenny Bania from Seinfeld.
Unfortunately, I had to leave shortly after the monologue, but I did see him host last season. As much as I find his stand-up lame, he did a good job on the show (other than the monologue).
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#287471 - 01/10/2006 18:50
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Yeah, the monologue was pretty weak (though the youTube bit was good), but I gotta admit I've laughed my ass off at his other stand-up specials. His CD's are good too but he's a pretty visual comic, so they play way better on a screen.
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#287472 - 01/10/2006 20:41
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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member
Registered: 31/12/2001
Posts: 121
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i have been doing this for over a year now. I download all my comercial free tv from newsgroups. [blanked].com is your friend.
Edited by drakino (01/10/2006 21:02)
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#287473 - 01/10/2006 21:05
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: spider]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
I download all my comercial free tv from newsgroups.
Quote:
I am going to attempt to still watch what I want, in a legal way, and see how it goes.
Such services are illegal in the US and as thus are out for what I am trying to do.
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#287474 - 18/10/2006 14:06
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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So far, it is looking like this might be the right direction for me. I don't really feel I'm missing much by not having 5000 unwatched channels, and I'm still seeing most of the shows I used to watch. The Daily Show is normally posted around midnight, so I am a day behind watching it. But it has been nice to just come home, grab the tiny mac remote and pull up the show. The best part is that I can either watch the show on my HDTV, or go watch it in my bedroom where I hooked up an older PC to my 27 inch monitor there.
My only big complaint so far is the varying prices on the shows off the store. Some are always $2 an episode no matter what, while others offer season passes for cheaper. I have been buying the episodes of Heroes as they come out, it looks like it is the only show in this fall lineup that I will try to catch close to release. Lost is still on my plate to buy on DVD one day and watch. Oh, and Battlestar Galactica, I'm going to be watching it at the Alamo every other week. They bought a PVR, and will be running the last episode then the new episode every week. So by going every two weeks I'll see that show in two hour chunks.
Quality wise, yes the files off the iTunes store aren't HD quality, but it's good enough for me. If Voom was still around I'd probably care more about HD, but really I watch TV shows for the content and story, not the ability to read some calendar on the wall in the background of shows. Being that I already have the Mini, I have a hard time justifying the cost necessary for me to go to HD with PVR capabilities with some other box like a Tivo Series 3. Besides, I'd then worry if the box is even going to let me record shows thanks to DRM in it.
I do wish the Front Row interface for TV shows worked the same way it does for video podcasts though. When a new episode of DL.TV is downloaded, it is marked with a blue dot in the interface till I watch it. TV shows just appear at the bottom of the list, and with "The Daily Show With Jon Stewart - 10/13/06" as the title, I only get most of the portion without the date. Something tells me though after seeing the iTV interface this will be cleaned up in the future.
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#287475 - 18/10/2006 14:37
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Thanks for the update. I'm going to pull the plug in a few weeks!
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#287476 - 18/10/2006 14:53
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I'm sorry, I guess I forgot. Why are you not doing anything OTA?
_________________________
Matt
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#287477 - 18/10/2006 15:57
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Seriously. Even where I live in the middle of nowhere (about 43 mi. from the closest broadcasting city), I can get two beautiful quality OTA HD channels on my TV with a standard antenna. With a long-range directional antenna I could get several more (all the networks + PBS). Seems like it'd be a cheap option to invest a few bucks in a decent antenna and get all the networks in HD. Go to Antennaweb.org to find out what's available from your house (you don't have to fill out the whole form...just your address.)
_________________________
~ John
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#287478 - 18/10/2006 16:58
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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addict
Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
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Quote:
Oh, and Battlestar Galactica, I'm going to be watching it at the Alamo every other week. They bought a PVR, and will be running the last episode then the new episode every week. So by going every two weeks I'll see that show in two hour chunks.
I hate you.  They don't do anything nearas cool as that here in Houston, and also the fact that the two locations are way out in BFE for some reason.
_________________________
--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.
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#287479 - 18/10/2006 17:21
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
I'm sorry, I guess I forgot. Why are you not doing anything OTA?
I lack HD PVR equipment. I suppose I should at least dig out my ReplayTV and see if I can get decent reception of the SD channels. But very little of what I am interested airs on the big networks. I do have my Voom box that still does HD OTA, but I am rarley in the mood to schedule my time around the networks and deal with seeing commercials.
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#287480 - 18/10/2006 17:42
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I guess I can see that. I'd probably just build myself a basic Myth box in that case, but I'm interested in how your plan works out. I could get away from cable and satellite for the most part, but I couldn't only go through iTunes, as it would get very expensive. There's also the fact that I despise iTunes 
_________________________
Matt
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#287481 - 02/11/2006 04:19
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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After a month, I have spent $36.70 on iTunes shows. They are:
Multipass to The Daily Show (16 episodes, still running)
Multipass to The Colbert Report (16 episodes, still running)
One episode of The Cobert Report before I got the multipass
Heroes episodes 1-5
South Park WoW episode
I also bought The Office season 1 and 2 on DVD, but have not watched them yet, costing me $69.26.
I've also been attending the showings of Battlestar Galactica at the Alamo Drafthouse. They are free to get in to.
Beyond that, I've watched a lot of video netcasts, including DL.TV, Command N, Ctrl-Alt-Chicken, Diggnation, and Cranky Geeks. All of them in the same Front Row interface that I use for the iTunes shows.
Right now the shows I miss are Smallville, Mythbusters, and just general information shows like Discovery tends to air. I did dig out the Voom box, but have yet to hook up my ReplayTV again. The local PBS station does broadcast in HD, so I've caught an episode of Nova that way.
For now, I think I'm comfortable with the arrangement I have. I'll probably look into an HD tuner PVR solution for the Mac Mini to record over the air shows, instead of investing in equipment with DirecTV or Dish Network. I may look at the price of the packages Time Warner has, but odds are the channels I want will be all over the place, resulting in an $70 bill. While I did spend more then that this month, the Office DVDs and the multipasses will carry me into November.
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#287482 - 02/11/2006 14:03
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
For now, I think I'm comfortable with the arrangement I have. I'll probably look into an HD tuner PVR solution for the Mac Mini to record over the air shows
I am building a MythPVR based on a PVR500 (dual NTSC) card and one HDHomeRun HD (dual ATSC) networked tuner. Cool device, that second one. Mine is somewhere in the postal system right now.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (02/11/2006 14:03)
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#287483 - 02/11/2006 14:29
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
and one HDHomeRun HD (dual ATSC) networked tuner. Cool device, that second one.
Indeed! I'm a little confused, though. You need to change channels on the device its self? If so, how do you watch TV "from all computers on your home network." If not, then why is there an IR port? I know I'm confused and missing something. I've very tired today for some reason...
_________________________
Matt
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#287484 - 02/11/2006 14:32
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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The tuner I am considering is this one from Elgato. I saw it at Fry's, so I may grab it on my next trip to see how it works. Looks like a good fit with the Mac Mini, since the software it comes with also works with the Apple remote.
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#287485 - 02/11/2006 15:40
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Wow, you are doing everything I'm planning to do a month or so ahead of me! I've been eyeing that tuner and a mac mini for a while, but I just plunked down the cash for a MBP Core 2 Duo so It's gonna have to wait a bit.
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#287486 - 02/11/2006 16:12
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
and one HDHomeRun HD (dual ATSC) networked tuner. Cool device, that second one.
Indeed! I'm a little confused, though. You need to change channels on the device its self? If so, how do you watch TV "from all computers on your home network." If not, then why is there an IR port? I know I'm confused and missing something. I've very tired today for some reason...
It has some kind of internal CPU to control the two tuners. Your computer just sends it commands to select the channels and sub-channels as needed. The latest Myth stuff knows how to do this already.
The IR receiver puzzled me a bit too -- it turns out it's just a simple consumer IR receiver, and whatever it sees is relayed out over the network. Your computer can then listen for IR packets and respond to them. Thus, a normal universal TV remote (or an Empeg remote) could be used with it.
I think they included it because (1) everybody needs one, and (2) most PC's don't have them built in. Still weird though.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (02/11/2006 16:13)
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#287487 - 02/11/2006 19:58
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: mlord]
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enthusiast
Registered: 21/08/2000
Posts: 346
Loc: Rochester, NY USA
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ALL RIGHT! Down with Timewarner!! I was just thinking about doing this too. I am putting together a mythtv box and upgrading my netflix and itunes allowance to offset. We will see if I can ween myself and the wife off the cable. Please keep us posted on your progress.
Edited by morrisdl (03/11/2006 11:43)
_________________________
Cheers,
-Doug Morrison
Mk2-32G Back light buttons, Neon red screen
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#287488 - 02/11/2006 21:13
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: morrisdl]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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What are you going to use to get on the internet ?
_________________________
Matt
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#287489 - 03/11/2006 04:49
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Move to mountain view like me and use google wifi  (currently with an allegedly 10dBi antenna getting a -83dB signal from one google AP - I am in theory in a no-coverage area... Etherdesigns Cantenna on the way...) Bit of a blast from the past at 500k-1mbitish (I was on 10mbit cable in the UK), but definitely usable. DSL to this building seems to max out at 1.5mbit, which is definitely not worth $60 - ie, what I paid for 10m in the UK. Hugo
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#287490 - 03/11/2006 18:43
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
DSL to this building seems to max out at 1.5mbit, which is definitely not worth $60 - ie, what I paid for 10m in the UK.
Yeah, it's a crime how much they restrict the data rate (deliberately, mind you) on home DSL connections here in the US. Some say cable companies are faster, but the last thing I'll do is pay a cable company for internet service. You might not have any personal qualms about doing so, so it might be worth investigating.
Some friends here in Seattle tried to add a wireless AP to their home LAN. Their internet connection is a cable company. The cable company keeps figuring out ways to alter the system so that the wireless AP stops working. I've redone its configuration twice, and it works for a few weeks, then it stops working and I have to go find out what else they did to it THIS time...
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#287491 - 03/11/2006 19:08
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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I'm paying $15/month for 3mbps ATT/Yahoo DSL... but then you have to have a land line account already.
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#287492 - 03/11/2006 19:23
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I apologize for continuing the tangent, but does anyone have any experience with FIOS? I can get it in my area and I'm wondering what people think of it. I have Cox Cable right now, and they continue to live up to their name in every way. Our internet connection slows down to a screeching halt at least every other day, the modem then needs to be power cycled, and it still isn't very fast (not as fast as it used to be). We've gone through two modems in the past six months. They've come out to the house twice. I just want to get rid of the company.
The one upside to having Cox Cable? It makes it so much better to shout "COX!" when your internet goes down.
_________________________
Matt
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#287493 - 03/11/2006 21:08
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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I've generally though of the phone companies as more corrupt then the cable companies. Here in Austin, I'm paying Time Warner $35 a month for 8mbit service. And quite often I use this, like my download of an ISO off MSDN last night was running at 800k/s. I think the best DSL in the area is around 3mbit, for more then what I pay. Reliability has been acceptable, with 2 short outages since I have used it starting in April. I really feel that if the cable companies hadn't decided to get into broadband, we would be lucky to even have 128k internet service. Especially after the phone companies stole $200 billion under the guise of nationwide broadband rollout charges.
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#287494 - 05/11/2006 03:14
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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So why is it that ADSL2+ hasn't got to the US yet? I guess the distances from the exchange are, in general, further than in Europe, but people who live next to the exchange in the UK can get 24Mb these days... are all the companies waiting to amortise the original ADSL investment?
Hugo
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#287495 - 05/11/2006 14:05
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: altman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
So why is it that ADSL2+ hasn't got to the US yet? I guess the distances from the exchange are, in general, further than in Europe, but people who live next to the exchange in the UK can get 24Mb these days... are all the companies waiting to amortise the original ADSL investment?
I think it's a question of incentive. Why *should* they deploy ADSL2+ ?
-ml
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#287496 - 05/11/2006 16:37
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: mlord]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
I think it's a question of incentive. Why *should* they deploy ADSL2+ ?
Competition? Ahh, yes, of corse, this is the US, where enough lobbying power buys you the license to print money...
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#287497 - 05/11/2006 21:58
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: julf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
I think it's a question of incentive. Why *should* they deploy ADSL2+ ?
Competition? Ahh, yes, of corse, this is the US, where enough lobbying power buys you the license to print money...
I'm really not sure what that means. Depending on your geographic location (not necessarily political boundary), There is a very large amount of choice. ADSL2+ sounds nice, but Verizon is currently do a large roll out of fiber to the premises (FTTP) in the NY metro area. They call it FiOS, and is currently capable of up to 50 Mbps downstream. I think the lowest teir you can subscribe to is 10 Mbps service, and it's actually less expensive than most DSL plans.
FiOS is also able to carry a large amount of high definition television channels in addition to internet access. If you want television service you can now choose from over the air, FTA satellite, cable (sometimes multiple providers), 2 different major DBS satellite systems, FiOS, and some other fringe operators.
In many areas, cable, DSL, and satellite (from two different providers) internet service is available. Then you have more populated areas that can offer point to point wireless, wifi, and fiber to the premises. Don't forget the ability to hop on a high speed wireless network. Verizon, Sprint, Nextel, and Cingular all offer all-you-can-eat plans suitable for laptop and home use.
This message is being sent through a Time Warner Cable line that's being billed by Earthlink ISP. Although the cable company (Time Warner) maintains the physical network, I have the option of choosing from a few different ISPs. Road Runner is the default and is a Time Warner company. Earthlink gives me an 8Mpbs service for $10 less, so I chose them.
Looks like there is a lot of competition to me. But what do I know? I just happen to live in the US....
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#287498 - 06/11/2006 07:51
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: robricc]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
In many areas, cable, DSL, and satellite (from two different providers) internet service is available.
Well, I can choose from 2 separate (physical) cable operators, and about 25 DSL operators, just waiting for fibre to the home. I'm sure I could get satellite if I wanted. But above all, all those providers are really competing, and try to outdo each other by offering even better deals. And yes, there are multiple choices for physical networks, not just multiple ISP's on top of one telco.
Of course, this is the Netherlands, that always has had a slightly protectionistic environment. If you go up to the Nordics, you get *real* competition...
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#287499 - 06/11/2006 12:41
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: julf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
Well, I can choose from 2 separate (physical) cable operators
There are well-populated areas (such as New York City) where multiple physical cable TV operators coexist. The choice of which operator to use is yours. This isn't typical, but it's obviously possible if there is enough demand. Competition in television is primarily between your local cable operator, DirecTV, and Dish Network.
Quote:
and about 25 DSL operators
When DSL was first being rolled out, this was possible in this area. Outside companies were setting up equipment in the telephone company's central office. I chose an outside company (can't remember the name). At the time, the telephone company wasn't even supplying DSL out of that exchange but a few independents were. They all went out of business eventually when cable internet DSL service from the phone company got better/cheaper. 786k DSL (which most consumers feel is acceptable) costs less than $15 a month here. That's less than an AOL dial-up subscription.
Choice of DSL providers exists in areas where the companies were able to survive the competition. Covad seems to still operate in northern New Jersey, but there was a time they had a far-greater reach in this area.
Quote:
I'm sure I could get satellite if I wanted.
C-Band satellite internet exists and I assume it's available internationally, but I doubt two companies have launched consumer-oriented services in NL. WildBlue and HughesNet are viable options even in the most back-woods parts of this country. Their higher cost and latency keep them from being popular when DSL or cable is available, however.
Quote:
But above all, all those providers are really competing, and try to outdo each other by offering even better deals.
I know it sounds crazy to you, but this happens in the US too. Being granted a license to provide a service doesn't guarantee success or an ability to "print money." There are two satellite radio companies that got licenses to broadcast in 1998. They're both struggling almost 10 years later.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the cable companies or the telephone companies. I think their service blows (except for cable internet). I chose to get service from their competitors who offer better service or better prices. DirecTV for television, Vonage for telephone, and Earthlink ISP as my billing agent/ISP for cable internet.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#287500 - 06/11/2006 14:46
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: robricc]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
When DSL was first being rolled out, this was possible in this area. Outside companies were setting up equipment in the telephone company's central office. I chose an outside company (can't remember the name). At the time, the telephone company wasn't even supplying DSL out of that exchange but a few independents were. They all went out of business eventually when cable internet DSL service from the phone company got better/cheaper. 786k DSL (which most consumers feel is acceptable) costs less than $15 a month here. That's less than an AOL dial-up subscription.
That is precisely what I was thinking of. That's where the lobbying power of the Baby Bells shows. Here the argument was that their local loop infrastructure was built while under protection of government-granted monopoly, so the local incumbents were forced to separate out their infrastructure business and sell the "raw" service to everybody for basically cost price. Not so in the US...
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#287501 - 06/11/2006 15:25
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: julf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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It really doesn't matter now for telephone service. VoIP from companies without a physical network (ie, Vonage, Packet8, etc.) and from cable television companies is gaining a lot of traction. Even AT&T is offering a VoIP service.
If you want DSL, most telephone companies will provide you with naked DSL. This is DSL without a dialtone or telephone service.
Without some people's need or desire for DSL, the physical telephone network is largely unnecessary for residential use. Mobile phones have become the only telephone for many of my friends.
I assume Verizon (a company formed from several Baby Bells) is rolling out their fiber to the premises service with television quickly due to pressure from the cable tv companies as most now offer TV, Internet, and phone over one physical wire and on one bill. Sounds like competition to me...
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#287502 - 06/11/2006 18:05
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
If you want DSL, most telephone companies will provide you with naked DSL. This is DSL without a dialtone or telephone service.
At least where I used to live, naked DSL carried a cost premium making it not worth it in most cases. And Qwest also had some sort of allocation system going for it, and "ran out of" naked lines they would hand out in the Colorado Springs area. So even if people were willing to pay more to not have the phone line, they still couldn't get it. One of my friends eventually gave up and decided to just deal with the cable company instead.
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#287503 - 06/11/2006 18:10
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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That seems counter intuitive. Naked DSL is not cheaper than regular DSL here, it just knocks the telephone service off the bill.
In any case, since your friend couldn't get his naked DSL, he went with cable. That's called competition and is what I'm trying to illustrate exists in the United States. To claim it doesn't is ridiculous.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#287504 - 06/11/2006 18:26
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
If you want DSL, most telephone companies will provide you with naked DSL. This is DSL without a dialtone or telephone service.
The "naked pair (line)" charge is often more than basic home telephone service, so that one's pretty much a non-starter for many areas.
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#287505 - 06/11/2006 18:46
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Cable and Phone in the US and Canada has always been anti-competetive. Still is, especially in Canada. For Satellite, both countries feature only two national providers. In the US you've got DirecTV and Dish Network and in Canada you've got Bell ExpressVu and StarChoice. Satellite TV in Canada stinks compared to what's available in the US (channel selection is poor and the equipment is always a generation or two behind). But paying for DirecTV and Dish aren't cheap either. "Competition" in the US between these two players and their CableCo counterparts hasn't dropped the price of TV very much.
I'm paying CAD$87 or so per month right now for Basic+something cable (Discovery Channel and a few other extras) and 6Mbit internet. From the single player that can provide it to me. There is no other choice. If I wanted to switch to a slower DSL connection I could go to Bell and also use their Satellite TV.
Rogers, my cable company, has seen fit to lower/alter service (dropped News feeds completely, dropped their own Mail in favor of shifting everyone to Yahoo and a few other things, put caps on downloading, implemented real-time packet inspection/filtering to combat p2p clients and bittorrent) AND increased their prices twice. All this depsite a signed contract for 2 years of a specific service. Of course I don't let service contracts tie me up anyway, I always just drop them when I want to move elsewhere, but I don't suddenlly just decide I want to start paying them a different amount every month.
All said and done, it's still cheaper to pay for Cable than to try and buy shows one at a time or even in series packs online.
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#287506 - 06/11/2006 18:54
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
since your friend couldn't get his naked DSL, he went with cable. That's called competition
Having one product available to him is called competition?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#287507 - 06/11/2006 19:12
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Yes. He didn't like the terms of having to pay more and wait for service availability so he went with cable.
In case you didn't notice, the country you live in is quite large. What goes for one area may not be the deal in another. Where I sit right now (Stony Point, NY), there is a large amount of choice and competition for a high speed internet connection. It's not my fault for not taking into account the situation in Colorado Springs, CO (in the past, mind you) which is over 1700 miles away. The point is that the problem is not at the governmental level. Companies are free to compete against each other and if there is enough demand, they will.
DirecTV isn't launching 2 new satellites because the cable TV and telephone lobbyists are letting them.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#287508 - 07/11/2006 07:28
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: robricc]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
That's called competition and is what I'm trying to illustrate exists in the United States. To claim it doesn't is ridiculous.
Yes, there is competition in the US. But compared to many other countries, big incumbents seem to enjoy a fair bit of protection. Been there, (sort of) worked for one.
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#287510 - 23/11/2006 15:13
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Okay, I pulled the plug on DirecTV about a week ago, but I've been out of town ever since. One thing I realized before I left though, is that my DTivo still works fine and plays all the stored content... AND... with tivotool I can upload downloaded mp4s to the DTivo and it plays them just fine. Now if I can just figure out how to tag them properly so folder sorting works, I'll be stoked. So for now, no need to get the Mac Mini as a media server I was planning on.
But, that's going to happen in the near future I think. Now that I've no need for a PC, other than as a slimServer, since I got a MacBook Pro and can animate with Maya on the XP boot, I can sell my desktop Shuttle and go all Mac. Or I can make the PC a media center, but I don't want the headaches. Mini with EyeTV and over the air HD seems like the best solution.
Anyone have experience with Macs and TV tuners??
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#287511 - 23/11/2006 16:04
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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I have the EyeTV hybrid now on my Mini, and it is working, though I've had some issues.
1. Enabling digital audio out in EyeTV caused the Mac to kernel panic over time, sometimes seconds after starting, others after several minutes. I disabled it for now, as I don't have a 5.1 setup anyway.
2. The EPG setup was a pain. The site enjoyed mashing Austin, Dallas, and Houston stations all together. Then in the EyeTV program, it showed nothing on the EPG until I manually mapped every channel to the guide. So digital channel 18-1 to channel 18-1 in the guide data and so on.
3. Stability. I've been using it more this week, and have had it hang after trying to record, or not output audio on a channel until a full reboot. So far is has always recorded what I wanted, but the hang when it tries to transcode it to h.264 is something I hope isn't common.
4. Apple remote integration. It only works if EyeTV is the front program, and if it somehow isn't, you have to drag out a mouse to bring it back. I'll probably load up Bruno's program again, now that I need to use the remote more outside Front Row.
Also, be prepared to have tons of storage handy. Since it records the normal MPEG2 HD stream, an hour show is around 6 gigs, and can fill up the laptop drive in the mini quickly. I'm experimenting with letting it record to the network storage, and so far that seems ok, but I may get a firewire drive instead.
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#287512 - 23/11/2006 17:08
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Interesting. Thanks a bunch for the notes. From all the reviews I've read I haven't seen those problems. Hope they aren't super common. 6GB for an hour... youch. No way to get it to convert on the fly eh?
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#287513 - 23/11/2006 17:37
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Nothing on the fly. The way I have been doing the h.264 encoding has been via the built in iPod option. The other problem that introduces is that on my Mini with a 1.6 Core Duo, it spends too much CPU time trying to do the encoding and will impact HDTV playback. It needs to set the priority on the encoding to a better level. I'd be happy with an option to just encode in the early hours of the night.
EyeTV does have a bunch of AppleScript commands, so I may tinker with Automater and see what I can do. I haven't poked much at the raw EyeTV files yet, but they seem to be containers with info for the program, then the .mpg file as well. Context clicking them gives you the "show package contents" option.
On the plus side, the program has been properly waking my mac to record when needed. Holding the menu button on the Apple Remote on the Front Row screen will manually sleep it, and I have mine set to sleep after 30 minutes of inactivity. It does wake up at 5am to backup to my server, and also quit and restart iTunes to trigger it to download new shows from the store or new podcasts.
Overall, the Mini as a PVR seems to be about the same as any other PC solution, it has some rough edges, but can work in the end. The Front Row bonjour sharing of video files works smoothly to my laptop, so I can watch most anything across that. Only thing I don't have is live TV streaming, but I don't mind since I always want to skip commercials anyhow.
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#287514 - 24/11/2006 03:37
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
I've no need for a PC, other than as a slimServer
SlimServer runs under Unix without a problem. It just needs Perl and a bunch of Perl modules. It might be a pain to get all of those modules installed, but I don't see any reason you couldn't get it working under MacOSX; it is just a version of Unix, after all.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#287515 - 24/11/2006 04:26
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Actually it will work under OSX, there's a prebuilt client if memory serves. I just meant there's no reason to keep it around NOW, pre MacMini, other than that I use it as a SlimServer. The scanner crashes everytime it runs though. Drives me nuts.
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#287516 - 05/12/2006 01:08
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Ok, followup on EyeTV, I can't recommend it anymore. Because:
1. The guide data has gone from working sometimes to not at all. It is downloading it, but not actually using it. I've purged the cache and it still won't display anything. This means record by name is broken, so only record by time works now.
2. Stability. The program has now crashed twice to the point of becoming a zombie program and forcing a reboot. kill -9 even failed on it. One crash resulted in a show not recording. I thought maybe a memory leak or something was causing it to occur, so I started having the Mac close it and re open it nightly, same issue. It also seems to crash if the live TV view is left on overnight.
3. No easy way to watch something being recorded. I came home tonight and watched a video netcast before watching Heroes, so that I could skip commercials. Went to start from the beginning, and the recording would instead dump me to live. Manually rewound all the way, and then 2 minutes in the playback would pause every 10 seconds for a second. Might be a sign that I need a gig of memory for the Mini though.
I was hoping this solution would allow me to just have a stable PVR platform, but for now, EyeTV is not ready for such duties. The nice thing is that the USB tuner I have works under Windows as well, so I might give Windows Media Center under Vista a try, and also the ReplayTV software. From my experience with Vista though on my old Inspiron 9100, I don't think that route will work for me either. The system can't even stay asleep on it's own.
If Tivo wasn't so interested in becoming evil, I'd almost be tempted by their over the air or cable card HD recorder.
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#287517 - 05/12/2006 02:12
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
a zombie program ... kill -9 even failed on it
You cannot kill a zombie process because it no longer exists. A zombie process is a process that has already exited but whose parent process hasn't bothered to read its exit status. The zombie process exists only in the process table, not in memory or anywhere else. There's only enough of it left to report back to its parent. The only way to get a zombie process to go away is to get its parent to "wait" on the process. Since zombie processes are usually due to a bug in the parent process, that often means killing the parent process, at which point the zombie's parent will become PID 1, init, which will reap the process.
What all of this means is that there shouldn't be a state where you really have to reboot. But that doesn't mean that it's not hopelessly broken.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#287518 - 05/12/2006 02:39
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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The process showed it was owned by WindowServer, and launchd (1) owned that. I didn't want to try killing WindowServer at the time, instead I just chose to restart. I'm not 100% certain that the EyeTV app did turn into a zombie, but OS X wasn't letting me relaunch it as it thought it was running, both via the Dock icon with the triangle below it and ps.
Overall lesson learned from this was that it was much simpler dealing with the ReplayTV hardware then it is a PC based solution for recording live TV.
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#287519 - 05/12/2006 06:16
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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That's super disappointing news. I was all set to get rid of my now serviceless DirecTivo, which I've been dumping shows to using TivoServer, and get a Mac Mini to use as a media server and get eyeTV on it with an ATSC HD Tuner. Bummer man. My DirecTivo has taken to crashing every night for some reason... I think I accidentally renamed a folder or moved a show or something that it really didn't like via TivoWeb. Grrr.
So what are the alternatives to eyeTV? From the few reviews I'd read it seemed like the best thing out there.
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#287520 - 06/03/2007 03:11
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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So I think at this point I'm done with attempting over the air HD. I haven't recorded a single show that has been good quality on 3 different stations in the Austin area now for the past 3 months. I try adjusting the antenna, and I get near perfect reception on one station, only to have to adjust it again later in the week for another show. And even if the signal looks good for a while, it craps out randomly. Watched Heroes tonight, and 75% of it was fine. Last quarter of it had many times of broken signal, or poor quality to where it introduced artifacts, and nearly made it completely unwatchable.
Really makes me wonder how DTV is going to replace analog broadcasts when I can't even watch the local digital channels without an amplified antenna that doesn't even work, all when I live well inside city limits.
At this point I'll finish out the season of Heroes and 24 via iTunes and the Alamo Drafthouse respectively, then just look into rental to get the shows on DVD later.
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#287521 - 06/03/2007 04:14
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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I had fully planned on going the OTA HD route, but am glad to report that I'm totally happy the way things are going now just using Netflix, bittorrent and an iTunes purchase here or there. With the advent of RSS feeds for torrents, finding shows has become incredibly simple. The Daily Show, Lost, The Office, and the one or two other shows that I HAVE to see, are almost always on the torrent network an hour or so after they air, in better quality that I'd have gotten with DirecTV that I had. I watch 'em, then delete 'em. I've watched Lost a number of times from the abc website as well, which isn't all that bad in a pinch.
I can't just go veg on the couch and disappear into the ether anymore... which I'm actually enjoying. Watching TV is now a treat and more anticipated, not just a way to procrastinate or pass time I should be using for something else. Plus, I've got $50 more a month in my pocket.
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#287522 - 06/03/2007 04:35
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
With the advent of RSS feeds for torrents, finding shows has become incredibly simple.
I'm still not willing to go that route either. I now know 3 people who have gotten nasty grams from this, and while none have moved into anything more serious, I'd rather not chance it. Especially since the parent company of my employer is one of the major TV producers. I like my job enough to avoid downloading a show off bittorrent. That, and I still feel it is wrong, especially now being part of a gaming company who also survives by producing entertainment that people pay for.
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#287523 - 06/03/2007 04:52
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: loren]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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#287524 - 06/03/2007 12:19
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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I wonder if the HD tuner you have mightn't have the best of receiver sensitivities ?
The two local HD (1080i) stations here are loud and clear with no amplification, using what is essentially a coat-hanger mounted 40' off the ground, with good RG-6 coax from there to the tuners (HDHomeRun).
Now our more distant 3rd HD station is just not reliable enough (about 80 miles away, I think), despite my best efforts thus far with exotic antennas and amps. But their analog counterpart is now nearly crystal clear 100% of the time with the new setups.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (06/03/2007 12:19)
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#287525 - 06/03/2007 12:33
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Loren, I don't think pirating is a good suggestion. It doesn't bother me that you get your shows that way, but it's not really a good alternative to Tom's experiment. I received four notices during the period that I was downloading shows, and frankly that was enough to get me to stop.
Besides, purely from a convenience factor, each of those notices were accompanied by a freeze on my internet access for at least a day.
I won't mind paying for FIOS TV when I move. I'm willing to pay $43 a month to avoid all the hassle associated with the other methods discussed here.
_________________________
Matt
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#287526 - 06/03/2007 13:41
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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I still download episodes I may have missed (due to PVR crash for instance). My last downloads were of unaired episodes of cancelled shows. The networks put them up for viewing on their web sites, but only allowed access to US-based visitors. I haven't received any notices when sniping just individual shows like this, likely due to the amount of time actually spent getting/sharing which is minimal.
I see no ethical problem getting programs in this manner considering I am a cable subscriber with access to those same programs on my paid subscription. Trying to download instead of subscribing to cable (or DTV) would be a huge pain and a massive time sink.
Bruno
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#287527 - 06/03/2007 14:42
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I completely agree with what you said. I was saying that Loren's method of downloading all of his TV content is not a valid alternative to Tom's experiment. Tom was attempting to see if it was feasible and economical to legally circumvent the cable and satellite providers. Besides the legal issues, of course it's possible to do this by pirating everything. But that's not the point of the experiment.
As for ethics, I agree with you, believe me. I'm pretty sure I had a post a long while ago in which I outlined all the reasons why I thought it was perfectly ethical to illegally obtain content that is otherwise unavailable to me. If there's a music video or TV show that is not being aired on TV and is not available for rent or purchase, I consider that a failure on the part of the content owner. But I won't argue that it's legal.
And no, I really don't think that you're going to get caught for what you're describing. Three out of the four times I got caught, it was downloading individual episodes, but it was for very recently aired programs. They caught me pretty quickly for that stuff. I had downloaded hundreds of gigs of older content that they never seemed to blink an eye at.
_________________________
Matt
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#287528 - 06/03/2007 14:44
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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You are safe (for the moment) regardless, as our country's laws are not yet overbalanced against the viewing public. Yet.
Cheers
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#287529 - 06/03/2007 18:30
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Here's a moral question: Lets say someone only torrents shows that can otherwise be had from free OTA sources. Say their option is either to record a show OTA onto a Tivo, and watch it time shifted while skipping commercials... OR... download the show off of a torrent network, watch the show, then delete it. The difference in the end result is the method of delivery and nothing else. If something can't be had OTA or from Netflix, that person can purchase it from iTunes. So where is the line? Do you have a Tivo? If so do you skip commercials? If so how do you separate that morally from downloading a show? Honest questions. Another question: How are people getting "caught"? From whom were the warnings and by what methods did the warner obtain the info? EDIT: After reading your last post I'm guessing you'll say the line is at the legal definition. I understand your point. EDIT 2: Quote:
That, and I still feel it is wrong, especially now being part of a gaming company who also survives by producing entertainment that people pay for.
And that is where I draw the line. If I can't obtain the same media for free legally by another method (like OTA), it gets paid for.
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#287530 - 06/03/2007 19:24
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Quote:
Another question: How are people getting "caught"? From whom were the warnings and by what methods did the warner obtain the info?
Not so sure about the "how" part, but I've attached the letter I got with all the personal information removed.
_________________________
~ John
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#287531 - 06/03/2007 19:30
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Wow, very interesting. Thanks for posting that.
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#287532 - 06/03/2007 19:33
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I bittorrent the occasional show but it usually falls into 1 of 2 categories. It's either a show that is currently not shown in this country, or a show that is available to the viewing public free of charge. The only exception to that is Lost, but to be honest I think they should be paying me to watch it at the moment.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#287533 - 06/03/2007 19:36
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
Not so sure about the "how" part, but I've attached the letter I got with all the personal information removed.
Would I be right in thinking that if I received one of those letters here in the UK I could tell them to go fsck themselves?
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#287534 - 06/03/2007 21:50
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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You could tell them to get lost just like I could in Canada. But it doesn't mean your ISP won't cut you off. It's the ISP that has to either provide them your email address or forward the note. If your ISP provided NBC (for example) with your email address, then I'd dump them anyway. That's more unethical than the download.
Most people who receive notices (I've received two in the past 5 years) do so because they're uploading content. In both instances the content in question was some crap file that I had simply forgotten to delete. Whenever I need to grab a show now, I remove it from the program I'm using to download as soon as it's finished. Yes, that's somewhat against the spirit of the P2P sharing principles, but I'd rather not get snooped and sent emails.
This is all possible because your IP is visible.
Anyway, I grabbed missing episodes of two cancelled shows and one cartoon that gets spotty timeslots here in Canada. Watched them and then deleted them (as I had no reason to keep them around). Morally and ethically the download and watching is, IMO, exactly the same as having watched them on TV as I would have recorded them with my PVR. The difference comes in the timespan where you're actually seeding the content to others. That distribution would never be a part of your normal TV/PVR watching experience. Unfortunately withotu someone uploading, no one can download. So someone has to be violating the spirit/laws, even if we feel justified in watching.
I intend to buy the cartoon I watched on DVD (all seasons) as soon as they're available. If the remaining episides for one of those shows ever make it out and wrap the show, I'll get that on DVD too.
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#287535 - 07/03/2007 00:09
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Here's a moral question: Lets say someone only torrents shows that can otherwise be had from free OTA sources. Say their option is either to record a show OTA onto a Tivo, and watch it time shifted while skipping commercials... OR... download the show off of a torrent network, watch the show, then delete it. The difference in the end result is the method of delivery and nothing else. If something can't be had OTA or from Netflix, that person can purchase it from iTunes. So where is the line?
I don't argue that morally/ethically. I have no problem with it. Every instance in which I got caught was when I was downloading a show that I could have watched on TV. So yes, I only argue legally. Like Bruno said, the problem is when I'm uploading to others.
Quote:
Do you have a Tivo? If so do you skip commercials? If so how do you separate that morally from downloading a show? Honest questions.
Technically I don't feel much worse than I did when I recorded shows on a VCR and fast forwarded through the commercials. From a moral standpoint, I would say that I never agreed to have commercials subsidize my programming. Besides, I buy most of the shows I watch on DVD. So, you're right, I'm skipping the commercials that bring me the content. The argument here is that so far, it's not against the law.
Quote:
Another question: How are people getting "caught"? From whom were the warnings and by what methods did the warner obtain the info?
At the time, my best guess was that the studio who owned the content I was downloading hired someone to monitor torrents and gather IPs. It's pretty easy to do. Then they notified my ISP and they suspended my account for a couple days until I called and "swore" that I deleted what I'd downloaded.
My favorite notice from my ISP was one in which they essentially told me that if I really had to download stuff, just don't share my downloads. Clearly this doesn't work with bittorrent, but I thought it was hilarious just the same.
_________________________
Matt
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#287536 - 07/03/2007 02:36
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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ISPs are in the business of promoting illegal file sharing. Just like gun manufacturers are in the business of promoting gun use (which may include roberies, killings, etc..)
Bruno
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#287537 - 07/03/2007 08:56
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: hybrid8]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Just to add this info - you guys know you can run bittorrent through the TOR network (the onion router) which apparently can perform a large amount of obfuscation and make it very difficult for anyone to find out the IP address.
I don't use it for that myself, but it is a great piece of technology:-)
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#287538 - 07/03/2007 11:07
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Quote:
... But it doesn't mean your ISP won't cut you off. It's the ISP that has to either provide them your email address or forward the note. If your ISP provided NBC (for example) with your email address, then I'd dump them anyway. That's more unethical than the download.
As a side note, my ISP did forward that message to me and did NOT provide my email address to NBC. They simply asked me to remove the infringing content and let them know when I had. They took care of it from there. I've no complaints about my ISP.
_________________________
~ John
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#287539 - 15/03/2007 14:29
Re: My attempt to avoid cable and satellite service for TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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I put togther a quick video (with no sound) to show how the setup works. If I could get the EyeTV features fixed up, this would be a nice solution for what I want to do. At this point I am likely to buy a newer Mac Mini next time they are revised, likely with Leopard, and use my existing one for a CarPC project. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8217507867243066142&hl=enI did find a good antenna position to pick up all the local HD stations except Fox with good quality, so when Heroes returns, I should be set to record it.
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#316251 - 11/11/2008 11:56
Warning: avoid 9thtee.com !!!
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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I am building a MythPVR based on a PVR500 (dual NTSC) card and one HDHomeRun HD (dual ATSC) networked tuner. Cool device, that second one. Mine is somewhere in the postal system right now. Well, here we are two years later. The PVR500 got resold (crappy Samsung tuners) and replaced by two PVR-250s (working very well). The HDHomeRun arrived promptly and has given supurb service for nearly two years. But just after SWMBO and I left for Italy (late September), it died. We ordered a new one from the same retailer the day we got back home. That was now 3+ weeks ago. The retailer, 9thtee.com, took full payment on the order date, but has not shipped the product, and does not respond to any enquiries. Googling about them reveals that I'm not alone in that regard -- over the past six months they've gone from being a reliable retailer to a deadbeat fraud for many folks. I'm certainly not the first one to have to initiate a Paypal claim action against them to try and get my funds back. So.. avoid them. They (well, "he" -- it's a one-guy outfit) were once the only place to purchase an HDHomeRun, but now there are lots of alternative resellers. Cheers
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#316253 - 11/11/2008 13:00
Re: Warning: avoid 9thtee.com !!!
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Wow, that's a shame. 9thtee was one of the very first Tivo hacking sites, and was very highly recommended back in the day. I think Weaknees really killed it and it was forced to sell lots of cheap crap like laser pointers and tiny rc cars and "pool noodles." Sad.
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Matt
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#316255 - 11/11/2008 13:30
Re: Warning: avoid 9thtee.com !!!
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Wow, fun look back at this. Quick update from my side.
Basically I still do the same thing, except the EyeTV sees near zero use. My TV watching has migrated nearly all the way to season based watching now, except for Battlestar Galactica. I've watched nearly every episode of that at the Alamo now since starting this. One that I did miss, I watched for free on Hulu.com, though the commercials reminded me of why I disliked cable/OTA TV. I also just recently started in on season 2 of Heroes since the BluRay box set was so cheep.
If I don't want to watch a DVD of shows on the main TV, I find it very quick to just use Handbrake to transcode the episodes to the NAS, and be able to then watch them on my laptop before bed, or on the iPhone when traveling. The Mac Pro that I have encodes to h.264 at around 120fps, so 4x speed.
The Mini is now running Leopard with the updated Front Row interface compared to the video above. Beyond that, it has pretty much remained the same. I still grab The Daily Show off iTunes, and it syncs the most recent 3 episodes to the phone automatically.
As for current events, like the recent election coverage, online streaming more then made up for needing a TV. All the debates were live on multiple sites, along with all the coverage on election day.
More then 2 years now without paying a dime to subscribe to a bloated channel package I never took advantage of. Instead, that money has gone to ensuring I have a good quality experience that I can enjoy whenever, and however I want without worrying about network schedules, commercial skipping, or even if the PVR was ok to record the show.
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