#289487 - 08/11/2006 17:34
Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
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old hand
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 931
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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i have been having problems with the sunroof on my 1999 Pontiac Sunfire and found out there was a service bulletin for it (which just means that enough people have had problems with it that GM issued instructions on how to check it for problems.) I got ahold of a copy of the service bulletin and in it it says to "jumper" to pins that are on the "sunroof express module." It doesn't give any clarification of what 'jumper' means, but I assume they mean to connect a wire between the two pins. If so, does it matter what kind of wire I use? I checked the local auto store and they had some wires that had an in-line fuse, would it be a good idea to get that type?
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#289488 - 08/11/2006 17:57
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: burdell1]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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It's only 12V, so just about anything will do- even a bent up paper-clip.
I don't think you need a fuse for a simple test scenario.
If you notice the jumper getting hot, that's the time to pull it!
If this is a permanent fix, look to see if the power source they've recommended is already fused. If not, then, by all means, put a fuse in the loop.
$0.02 administered!
Good luck!
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#289489 - 08/11/2006 21:18
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: burdell1]
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old hand
Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
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If the results of the test are immediately apparent from the jumpering location (you don't need to jumper something under the hood and then go look inside the passenger compartment at a light or something), then a needle-nose pliers makes a great jumper. Just open it to the width between the pins and touch it to both pins simultaneously. If its a female connector you're jumping, then just use a paper clip and stick it in both sockets. Depending on how far apart the (male) terminals are, you can often use a paperclip in its original shape as a jumper across two terminals.
What you're doing is bypassing a switch (or relay) to determine if it is the switch (or the sensor that controls the switch) that is faulty. Anything that will short the connections together is fine. A fuse is not necessary.
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#289490 - 09/11/2006 12:29
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: Robotic]
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old hand
Registered: 01/10/2002
Posts: 1039
Loc: Fullerton, Calif.
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Quote:
It's only 12V, so just about anything will do- even a bent up paper-clip.
It's only 12v with a 500 amp supply behind it, so be careful. A sunroof motor may draw 25 amps, so an 18 ga wire would probably glow nicely.
See if you can determine the wire size already on the terminals and use that same size or bigger.
The circuit is probably already fused. Check the fuse box for one labelled sunroof.
Does the service bulletin call for this jumper to be permanently installed?
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#289491 - 10/11/2006 00:59
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: burdell1]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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I read the TSB (My neice works for the alldata call center) It's says that you are jumpering over the limit switch. So it's nothing to do with the motor power lines. The test jumper with the fuze inline will work fine. For this, a cheaper one without the fuse will also work also. Quote:
. Jumper Pin # 1 and Pin # 8 on the sunroof express module. If more access is needed, push the module towards the motor and unlock it from the bracket. Refer to the Illustration above.
Note: Avoid operating the sunroof glass to the full open position. Since the limit switch has a jumper across it, there will be no indication to the sunroof module to stop the glass at the full open soft stop. The glass can slide past the full open position, possibly damaging the sunroof assembly and/or the roof.
3. With the ignition ON, push the sunroof switch to the close position to fully seat the sunroof. If this action fully closes the sunroof, replace the sunroof motor only. Refer to the Sunroof Motor Replacement below. If this action does not fully close the sunroof, go to Diagnostic Starting Point-Roof in the service manual.
4. Remove the jumper and re-lock the sunroof express module back into its bracket.
_________________________
Glenn
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#289493 - 10/11/2006 01:31
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: gbeer]
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old hand
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 931
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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Thanks for the help! i greatly appreciate it.... I did the test, and it did close the sunroof completely (although the pins they told me to jump didn't work, but i found the two that did.) so it sounds like the motor is bad.do you think replacing the motor would be a relatively easy job?
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#289494 - 10/11/2006 02:24
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: burdell1]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
do you think replacing the motor would be a relatively easy job?
Reletive to what? I can say I wouldn't do it myself.
BTW the OEM price for the motor is $341, and it should be 7/10 of an hour labor.
_________________________
Glenn
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#289495 - 10/11/2006 20:39
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: burdell1]
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old hand
Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
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I don't follow. If you jumper two pins, and the sunroof closes, doesn't this mean that the motor closed it? Since you were able to make it move, I would suspect that the motor is fine and start checking different switches.
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#289496 - 10/11/2006 22:31
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: TigerJimmy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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The window motors in my truck have some kind of encoder built into them. The roof door module monitors it to determine when to stop raising the window. Whenever the RDM looses power (battery disconnect) it forgets where the endpoints should be. If a window is partway down when power is restored, the RDM assumes that is all the way up. Stays that way until you reteach it. A simple process, Run the window up, hold the down button down until the window stops and for a couple seconds more, then run it up till it stops, and hold for a couple seconds.
I suspect the sunroof motor is similar. Don't know why shorting the open limit switch lets the motor close the window fully.
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#289497 - 28/03/2007 11:16
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: gbeer]
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old hand
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 931
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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GBeer ....do you have access to the info on how to replace the sunroof in a 1999 Sunfire? Thanks!
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#289498 - 28/03/2007 23:52
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: burdell1]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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should have, Let me dig around a bit.
_________________________
Glenn
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#289499 - 29/03/2007 01:29
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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I've attached an image of the schematic. Here is the list of topics. GM's service info is a web based app. There isn't a global remove and replace the sunroof procedure. Is one of these specific to what you need? Select a document to view: Sunroof Switch Replacement t Sunroof Replacement Sunroof Window Height and Opening Fit Adjustment Sunroof Drain Hose Replacement Water Drainage System Replacement Sunroof Finishing Lace Replacement Sunroof Sunshade Panel Replacement Power Sunroof Motor Replacement Power Sunroof Module Replacement Edit:< http://gkb.servehttp.com/sunfire/s1.zip See included readme Power Sunroof Express Module Replacement Sunroof Drive Cable Replacement Sunroof Guide Replacement Sunroof Seal/Molding Replacement
Edited by gbeer (29/03/2007 01:56)
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#289500 - 02/04/2007 14:39
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: gbeer]
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old hand
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 931
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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Thank you very much!... i just hope he is able to do it cheap....I am debating whether or not to buy the part new (around $300) or to buy a used one (for around $50)..... normally, i would for sure buy the used one, but i am afraid that a year from now, i might have to have it replaced all over again....
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#289502 - 03/04/2007 00:13
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: burdell1]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
Thank you very much!... i just hope he is able to do it cheap....I am debating whether or not to buy the part new (around $300) or to buy a used one (for around $50)..... normally, i would for sure buy the used one, but i am afraid that a year from now, i might have to have it replaced all over again....
At $50/per you have 6 shots at getting a good one. I guess it boils down to how much aggravation you can stand.
_________________________
Glenn
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#289503 - 03/04/2007 14:49
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: gbeer]
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old hand
Registered: 09/01/2002
Posts: 702
Loc: Tacoma,WA
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Speaking of sunroofs and GM cars- do you have any info on replacing the sunroof motor on a 2000 Saturn SL2?
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#289504 - 03/04/2007 17:26
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: siberia37]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Should have, I need to look, won't know for sure till this evening.
_________________________
Glenn
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#289505 - 03/04/2007 17:45
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: siberia37]
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addict
Registered: 02/04/2002
Posts: 691
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I've printed the article from Mitchell OnDemand to a PDF. If you're interested PM me your email address and I'll send it along...
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Oliver
mk1 30gb: 129 | mk2a 30gb: 040104126
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#289506 - 04/04/2007 02:28
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: siberia37]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Is Oliver's PDF ok?
Otherwise I do have the info, but there are a couple things I need to know.
It's a sedan? (sedan/coupe/wagon)
Does it have a headcurtain (airbag)?
Is it what is referred to as a 1st or 2nd design vehicle? (some parts and procedures are different)
_________________________
Glenn
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#341378 - 20/01/2011 18:08
Re: Safest way to ''jumper" something on a car....
[Re: gbeer]
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old hand
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 931
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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I wasn't sure if I should bring this up in a different thread, but I was wondering gbeer if you could do me a big favor. I am having some trouble with the trunk lock in my 1999 Pontiac Sunfire GT and i might have to replace the trunk lock. I was wondering if you happen to have any of the diagnostics for this. Thanks!
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