#289507 - 08/11/2006 20:49
US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Discuss! This is the first time I'd ever voted straight Democratic slate. While I don't think my local Republican congressman was bad (in fact he was pretty moderate), I felt nothing would change without a divided government once again. Both NH house members were replaced with Democrats. It was pretty refreshing to hear Bush actually answering (in his own way) questions at the press conference this afternoon. I can't remember the last time he was asked anything but softball questions. I certainly don't believe a quick exit from Iraq is in anyone's interest, I do think that stirring the murky planning pot can only be a good thing, since I'm not sure how it could be worse at this point. I'll now step aside and let the thread chaos begin - gentlemen start your engines! (well Doug, you start your engine once you've tracked down your engine parts  ) -Zeke
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WWFSMD?
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#289508 - 08/11/2006 21:01
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: Ezekiel]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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Well despite my wanting Orrin Hatch out of office, other Utah voters re-elected him. This will be his 6th term, a new state record. When he first ran he focused on his opponent being in office for a long time. Of course our Democratic candidate wasn't the best choice which just helped Hatch. 
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-Michael
#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons
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#289509 - 08/11/2006 22:04
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I only just, moments ago, saw the Rumsfeld headline. WOW! Now there's a man who knows how to get outta the way when he's in the path of an irresistable force.
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#289510 - 09/11/2006 11:19
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
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So what does this all mean to an outsider? Bush is still in charge but has no powers to do anything, or what?
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Mk2a RioCar 120Gb - now sold to the owner of my old car
Rio Karma - now on ebay...
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#289511 - 09/11/2006 12:39
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: furtive]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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The US has three branches of government, the Executive, the Legislative, and the Judicial. We can ignore Judicial for this conversation.
The President, currently George Bush, is in charge of the Executive branch. He and it are responsible for the day-to-day running of the country, running the military, citizen benefits, collecting taxes, running foreign affairs, etc. The elections we just had didn't affect the Executive branch. (The president is somewhat equivalent to the British Prime Minister.)
These elections changed the makeup of the Legislative branch. The Legislative branch, or Congress, is in charge of making laws. These laws range from criminal offense laws to making budgets, declaring war, and so on. (Incidentally, the US has not officially declared war since WWII.) We have two subdivisions of Congress: the Senate and the House of Representatives. A proposed law must pass both divisions (or Houses) in order for it to become enacted. (Congress is somewhat equivalent to British Parliament, and the Senate and the House of Representatives somewhat equivalent to the House of Lords and the House of Commons, respectively.)
What's happened is that the Democrats have a majority in both houses of Congress, which means that it will be much easier for them to pass laws. Formerly, the Republicans had a majority in both houses. What this means to the President is that it will be harder for him to propose laws and get them passed. While the President has no lawmaking powers, it is in his interest to encourage Congress to pass laws that benefit, notionally, the country, but, in reality, his agenda. When the whole of Congress was controlled by his party, it was relatively easy for him to get laws passed, like the recent one that effectively gave him carte blanche to torture "enemy combatants" and declare anyone he wanted to as an "enemy combatant". Now that the opposing party is effectively in charge of making laws, he becomes hobbled in his ability to promote new laws.
It's also a signal to the Republican party that the US public is not happy with their performance.
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Bitt Faulk
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#289512 - 09/11/2006 13:13
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Excellent summary!
I would add that many in the US are not happy with the performance of either party, but voted specifically to create gridlock. Not as much gets done by government this way, but that could be considered a good thing depending on your point of view.
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Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#289513 - 09/11/2006 13:29
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Gridlock would work better when one party controls one house of Congress and the other party controls the other house, regardless of the affiliation of the president.
Of course, the notion that the Democrats control the Senate is a little iffy, as two of the "Democrats" are independents: Lieberman (who tends to vote as a Republican anyway) and Bernie Sanders, who votes pretty liberally.
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Bitt Faulk
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#289514 - 09/11/2006 13:34
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
I would add that many in the US are not happy with the performance of either party
I suppose if you asked very nicely we might consider taking you back under the crown...
Rob
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#289515 - 09/11/2006 15:52
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: rob]
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addict
Registered: 20/11/2001
Posts: 455
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
I suppose if you asked very nicely we might consider taking you back under the crown...
Absolutely not. We'd have to learn a foreign language.
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#289516 - 09/11/2006 17:56
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
This is the first time I'd ever voted straight Democratic slate.
I'm in an area that wasn't under any danger of electing a Republican (except for state governor), so I think the only Democrat I "voted" for was someone running uncontested for some minor seat of something or other. Everything else I sprinkled between Libertarian, Green, and Independent, in an effort to boost their vote counts to the point where they can qualify for funding in the next election.
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#289517 - 09/11/2006 19:41
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Following on to Bitt's post, it's worth getting a little more into the procedural aspects of how the Legislative and Executive branches intertwine.
Fundamentally, the Executive is "in charge" of the government, including defense, environmental protection, drug regulation, and more. One would argue that the President's primary function is appointing all the people who head all of the various government agencies that you've heard of. Meanwhile, the Legislative does more than just pass laws. The Legislative branch has a number of "checks and balances", including:
- Congress must approve all of the relevant Presidental appointments: the President's cabinet, Federal court judges, and so forth.
- Congress can call hearings, compel testimony, and demand that witnesses are sworn in. Lying in such a setting is grounds for charges of perjury.
- Congress controls the money and must pass legislation to authorize the budget, every year. Obviously, the government spends an awful lot of money doing all the things that it does. Congress has the power to reallocate money to anything they want, and can technically direct the President and his agencies to do a variety of things with that money.
- Of course, Congress can't pass any law they want, because the President can veto it. Congress can then attempt to override the veto, but they need a super-majority of votes to do it.
In short, expect all of these mechanisms, and more, to be leveraged in the next two years as the President and Congress jockey for power. Right now, both sides are talking of working together, but it's just a matter of time until they hit irreconcilable differences on some important issue. That's when all of this starts to matter. Without compromise, neither side will accomplish its agenda. And, if the Democratic congress feels that their agenda isn't making any headway, you can expect them to spend their time doing investigations instead.
The next two years are going to be quite interesting to watch.
(For the purposes of this discussion, I'm overlooking the distinction between the House and Senate. Had the Senate remained in Republican hands, with the House in Democratic hands, then things would have been much more complicated than they are now.)
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#289518 - 09/11/2006 20:31
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: wfaulk]
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old hand
Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
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Since this is a summary intended for non-Americans, I thought I'd point out that the President *does* have one law making power: any law passed by Congress must be signed into law by the president, or he can elect to veto the law. If he vetos the law, the congress can overrule the veto with a 2/3 majority vote.
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#289519 - 09/11/2006 21:10
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: TigerJimmy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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And, when he signs something into law, it now appears to be the norm for the president to add a signing statement which interprets the law they way he thinks it ought to really be. Thus, the "ban" on torture... except when the president feels like it.
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#289520 - 10/11/2006 02:36
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: canuckInOR]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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It's interesting that whole notion of a "signing statment" doesn't have any basis in law. It would seem to be a userpation of the authority of the court system. They have the responsibility to interpret the law. The signing statment would seem to be trying to preempt the court.
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Glenn
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#289521 - 10/11/2006 12:20
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: gbeer]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 351
Loc: chicago
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An activist executive?  --Dan.
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#289522 - 11/11/2006 18:27
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: DWallach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
The next two years are going to be quite interesting to watch.
It's sad this will only be the case for the next two years. I don't think the Republicans can rally enough religious votes to overcome the liberal negativity toward Bush and his party. Sadly, we'll be back to the "bad old days" of a one party system, this time laced with Democratic slickness instead of Republican stupidity.
That presidential vote is going to be a tough one. After Bush, I can hardly bare to vote my Republican party, but it may be necessary to "bring balance to the force".
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- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#289523 - 11/11/2006 22:22
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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I cannot think of anything the Dems did that was even in the same league of evil as what W has been up to for the past five years.
Oh, sure, Willy's willy got caught playing around. BIG deal. Oh, Dubya invaded an innocent country, killed tens of thousands, and fueled Islamic terrorism for the next hundred years. Bah.. a mere trifle.
Cheers
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#289524 - 13/11/2006 00:32
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Well, there was the Clinton underhanded business dealings, but nothing that Trickey Dick Cheney hasn't done, eh?
The most frustrating thing is that after we elect them, we have no control over what they do for the next 4 years.
Shifting gears to the other half of the thread title, I heard something on the radio about efforts to bring Rumsfeld to trial for war crimes, but the Military Commissions Act would grant him imunity. Ah, but only immune in America, so if he set foot in another country (the radio program mentioned Germany) that he could be tried for "crimes against all human kind".
Would be nice to hold America up to the standards that it has imposed on other countries over the decades. Was this program just sensationalism, or is this on target?
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#289525 - 13/11/2006 03:09
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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killed tens of thousands,
Increase that by an order of magnitude.
Last I heard the figure was more than 600,000.
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#289526 - 13/11/2006 03:13
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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efforts to bring Rumsfeld to trial for war crimes,
The hell with Rumsfeld. Let's start war crime charges against President Bush.
I hear the Iraqis are working on writing a constitution. Why go to the trouble -- let's just give them ours. It's obvious we aren't using it anymore.
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#289527 - 13/11/2006 04:18
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Okay, the other fun piece of fallout I'm seeing these last several days...
A host of republicans trying to distance themselves from Bush, saying that they disagreed with him all along, but that prior to Nov 7th, they needed to follow the party line in the name of strength and solidarity. And I'm not just talking about Rush Limbaugh, I mean lots of our elected officials are saying this (or something similar) now.
Just makes them look like rats fleeing a sinking ship...
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#289528 - 13/11/2006 05:13
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Pretty sad really. It just proves how the system revolves around being reelected instead of actually doing a good job. Now that it is very clear the American people are finally putting the war at the top of their dislike lists, the republicans are scrambling to try and appeal to those people so that they can reclaim the congress later, and try to push a republican president in 2008. It's a shame this change in priorities for the voters didn't happen in 2004. I'd personally never vote for any of these congressmen again if they are suddenly "flip-flopping" now, instead of standing their ground years ago. "Sorry, we needed a unified party" isn't a great excuse for the lack of a backbone, or to the soldiers and civilians dead in Iraq. Sadly I think most people won't research the decisions of their representatives enough come the next elections to prevent this from happening again. And who knows what it will take to regain any of the civil liberties that have been lost these past 6 years, also made under this "front of unity". I really hope that the people who are strong supporters of any political party rethink their votes from time to time. It's quite clear the republicans in power now aren't the same ones that promised things like the Contract with America and other conservative values. Repeatedly voting for the same party when it has dramatically changed and broken promises isn't going to fix anything.
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#289529 - 13/11/2006 08:14
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: drakino]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Some of y'all's statements make me sick. War crimes? The USA is the only thing holding this piece of shit of a world together. Maybe y'all want to live under Sharia law and see the batshit crazy muslims get nukes, but I don't!
Ten thousand people? Cry me a river. That's just the calm before a very big storm.
One fourth of the world's population wants to destroy the rest, and that one fourth isn't us. It's Islam. We're not the bad guys here. We built the world's technology. We discovered the knowledge of this world. We built all the roads and hospitals in Africa. We built the machines that run on the muslim's black gold. The USA and Europe. All the wealth in this world was created by us. We've done nothing but good in this world. And now we have to stop this evil cult known as Islam led by their anti-Christ cult-leader Muhammad, aka Satan, or else they are going to take everything we've worked so hard to create.
Make no mistake, Islam is now a greater threat to us than Nazism. For they are not led by the Führer, but by who they believe to be God Himself. This is the beginning of a great war, Christianity versus Islam, with the Jews caught in the crossfire. These are the forces of Christ and Satan, and they are at war with eachother for the hearts and souls of earth.
You will have to pick a side. Don't wait until it's too late.
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#289530 - 13/11/2006 12:11
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: ]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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That was almost as funny as Borat. But I still can't put my finger on why it's so funny. If it's because of the obvious content of bullshit or because you might actually believe any of what you wrote.
The greatest threat to the planet in the past few years has been the USA - in many more ways than one.
More people have been killed (read: murdered) in the name of Christianity than have ever (or will ever) be killed with any ties to Islam. And don't even get me started on how perverted most of the Christian sects have become. In the US there's at least two Chrstian sects for every Baskin Robins flavour.
But if you think this war has anything to do with religion, from either side or any angle, you're smoking some crazy stuff.
I will go so far as to say that despite how attrocious the attacks of September 11th 2001 were, I consider the US' attack on Iraq far more "evil" - and Mr. George Walter Bush should have to answer for that. And spending some time in prison finding out just how loose a wizard's sleeve is, might be a good learning experience. At least it would make me happy to know he was there.
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#289531 - 13/11/2006 12:52
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: ]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Quote:
You will have to pick a side. Don't wait until it's too late.
I have to choose between crackpot self deluded Christian fascists and crackpot self deluded Muslim fascists? Damn. I think I might just moved to France.
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#289532 - 13/11/2006 14:20
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Tony,
What really struck me during the press conference (where Rummy was axed) was that the media finally seemed to grow a pair and ask tough questions. Where the hell were they over the last six years? Or did 'Dub just give absolutely zero interviews where he allowed questions (excepting for election debates)?
It was glorious listening to the utter crap he spewed about looking forward to 'working together'. It was the best political moment I can remember since seeing Mrs. Al Gore standing terrified watching Al stumble around on stage half in the bag at the MTV inauguration ball way back when.
Rhetorical question: If GW went to Singapore and vomited on the president just like daddy did in Japan, would he be fined for spitting in public?
-Zeke
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WWFSMD?
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#289533 - 13/11/2006 15:21
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: rob]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Quote:
Quote:
You will have to pick a side. Don't wait until it's too late.
I have to choose between crackpot self deluded Christian fascists and crackpot self deluded Muslim fascists? Damn. I think I might just moved to France.
France? Portugal for me.
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#289534 - 13/11/2006 15:27
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: hybrid8]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Quote:
That was almost as funny as Borat
Agree, thanks Billy, now where's the "wet my pants cos I laughed so much" smiley?
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#289535 - 13/11/2006 15:45
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tahir]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12344
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
That was almost as funny as Borat
Agree, thanks Billy, now where's the "wet my pants cos I laughed so much" smiley?
Funny? I haven't seen anything funny in this thread. I certainly hope you didn't find the rest of his horrible post funny. It's one of the worst things I've ever read on here. I spent 10 minutes thinking of a way to reply to it, but decided it wasn't worth my time. I figured nobody else would agree with this bigot.
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Matt
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#289536 - 13/11/2006 15:49
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: Dignan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Quote:
Funny? I haven't seen anything funny in this thread.
You have to either laugh at his post or cry, personally I think laughing at it is the appropriate response.
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#289537 - 13/11/2006 21:04
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tahir]
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addict
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 658
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Quote:
You have to either laugh at his post or cry, personally I think laughing at it is the appropriate response.
QFT.
I still havn't figured out if this guy is for real or not. I still keep thinking he is yz3dd or whateverthehell is name was. It doesn't add up.
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#289538 - 13/11/2006 21:11
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: visuvius]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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He is dzz3y/d33zy/Paul Walton
Its too much like him!
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#289539 - 23/11/2006 10:29
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: Dignan]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
That was almost as funny as Borat
Agree, thanks Billy, now where's the "wet my pants cos I laughed so much" smiley?
Funny? I haven't seen anything funny in this thread. I certainly hope you didn't find the rest of his horrible post funny. It's one of the worst things I've ever read on here. I spent 10 minutes thinking of a way to reply to it, but decided it wasn't worth my time. I figured nobody else would agree with this bigot.
Dignan, I don't find it funny either. Not at all. I am not being a bigot. I am simply re-stating what the jihadists (which is the duty of all muslims to become, by order the "prophet" Muhammad, founder of Islam) are saying themselves.
You want to see bigotry? Go to the middle east. You'll see women routinely beaten, forced to wear a blanket over their bodies, and have their clitoris sawed off with a knife by their husbands. I'm not making this shit up.
You'll also see and hear "Death to the Christians!" and "Death to the Jews!". You'll see kids dressed up as suicide bombers (eg., "martyrs"). You'll also hear dictators claim that America, the world's great example of democracy, is the "Great Satan". Again, I'm not making this shit up. I'm taking it straight from their mouths.
Muhammad himself said that it's the duty of all good muslims to kill Jews and Christians. Islam is beyond bigotry. It's evil.
If you take off your politically correct blinders for a moment, then you'll see that.
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#289540 - 23/11/2006 11:07
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: ]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Quote:
Islam is beyond bigotry. It's evil.
Wow man, that's profound. I'd better round up some non believers and fulfil my obligations.
Better get myself a clitoris saw too.
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#289541 - 23/11/2006 11:10
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tahir]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Islam is beyond bigotry. It's evil.
Wow man, that's profound. I'd better round up some non believers and fulfil my obligations.
After all, it is Muhammad's instructions to you in the Koran.
And before anyone calls me a bigot again, do yourself a favor and read it for yourself straight out of the Koran.
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#289542 - 23/11/2006 11:16
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Also, I'd like to point out how, according to the USA-based, politically-correct crowd, that I'm a bigot for saying anything negative about Islam, yet those same people mercilessly trash the Bible and Christianity in other threads. So go ahead, call me a bigot, hypocrites.
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#289543 - 23/11/2006 11:18
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tahir]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Quote:
Better get myself a clitoris saw too.
None on eBay, any ideas where I can get one?
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#289544 - 23/11/2006 11:19
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tahir]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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#289545 - 23/11/2006 11:22
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Cool, I'll check later. They must have plenty of stock.
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#289546 - 23/11/2006 11:27
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tahir]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
The Muslims are the principal religious group that practice female circumcision. In Egypt, for instance, 97 percent of women are circumcised. Their clitorises are amputated. In countries like Sudan, meanwhile, the women-haters are not so kind: all the women’s external genital organs are completely removed. In a savagery called infibulation, the clitoris, the two major outer lips (labia majora) and the two minor inner lips (labia minora) are amputated.
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female circumcision is performed on girls anywhere from the ages of one month to puberty. Usually, it is done around the age of seven or eight. Anesthetics are never used. The child is pinned down by several women, while one of them attacks.
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A tiny piece of wood or reed is inserted to allow urine and menstrual blood to seep out. Extra narrowing of the opening is carried out with stitches, which remain until marriage. The victim’s legs are often bound together from hip to ankle and she is immobile for about a month or two.
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This violence has to occur because, in much of the Islamic world, the female’s genital area is considered dirty and unacceptable. For example, in Egypt the uncircumcised girl is called nigsa (unclean). Thus, it has to be made "clean."
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The terror of the circumcision itself tracks its traumatized victims down like a nightmare. Most, if not all, of these poor women end up suffering from serious sexual and/or mental distortions. The mutilation of their sexual being becomes the epicenter where sex and violence meet constantly in their lives – with them as victims.
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Wedding night is often quite eventful. In some parts of the Arab and African world, the husband assaults the wife after the wedding. In Somalia, for instance, the groom beats the bride with a leather whip. After this romantic apex, he cuts the sealed vagina with a sharp scalpel or razor in order to have intercourse. He then has prolonged repeated intercourse with her for a week – to prevent the scarring from closing the vaginal opening again. During this time the wife must lie still and not move. Meanwhile, the husband takes the bloody sharp object, which represents the virginity of his wife, and makes rounds around the community – showing it off for approval. Scholars such as Raphael Patai and Vincent Crapanzano have documented these phenomena.
After this honeymoon period, the woman is now, for the first time in her life, actually recognized as a person – because she has become the extension of her husband. Her status might even improve if she has a child (a boy). She will be humiliated and shamed, however, if she has a non-child (a girl).
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#289547 - 23/11/2006 11:30
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Thanks Billy, 97% of women eh? Better round up the other 3%. Do they do a flight to Cairo from Stansted yet?
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#289548 - 23/11/2006 11:32
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tahir]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Are you making jokes because you think it isn't true, or are you making jokes because there's no way to justify the actions and practices in the Islamic world?
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#289549 - 23/11/2006 11:33
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Quote:
She will be humiliated and shamed, however, if she has a non-child (a girl).
Do you think I should humiliate and shame my wife (mother of my 3 "non-children") before or after I circumcise her?
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#289550 - 23/11/2006 11:35
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Are you making jokes because you think it isn't true
Who's making jokes? You've just schooled me, I'm obviously deficient in my devotion, I need to rectify that.
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#289551 - 23/11/2006 11:39
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tahir]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I think you should reconsider your allegiance to Muhammad.
"Love thy enemies" -Jesus Christ
"Kill the unbelievers" -Muhammad
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#289552 - 23/11/2006 11:41
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Quote:
I think you should reconsider your allegiance to Muhammad.
"Love thy enemies" -Jesus Christ
"Kill the unbelievers" -Muhammad
Gee, I think you've converted me, go Billy, only another billion or so to go.
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#289553 - 23/11/2006 11:59
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tahir]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
You will know them by their fruits ... Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
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Therefore by their fruits you will know them."
Compare the fruits of Jesus (most of the USA and Europe) to the fruits of Muhammad (most of the Middle East and Africa).
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#289554 - 23/11/2006 12:03
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: ]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Billy what can I say, your finger is definitely on the pulse, I hope to be keeping sheep from next spring, and am currently planting an orchard of over 1000 trees, good advice, especially about the wolves and sheep, come to think of it the fruit advice is good too.
You are most definitely my guru, can I be the first Billyan?
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#289555 - 23/11/2006 14:58
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: tahir]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Yes - follow the Billy! He is the true prophet. He has the gourd!
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#289556 - 25/11/2006 02:54
Re: US Mid-Term Election Results & Rumsfeld 'Resignation'
[Re: ]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
"Love thy enemies" -Jesus Christ
"Kill the unbelievers" -Muhammad
- He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. -Exodus 22:20
- And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. -Mark 6:11
- Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. -Koran 2:190
- O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Informed of what ye do. -Koran 5:8
- For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth. -Koran 5:32
- The good deed and the evil deed are not alike. Repel the evil deed with one which is better, then lo! he, between whom and thee there was enmity (will become) as though he was a bosom friend. -Koran 41:34
- And he saith: O my Lord! Lo! these are a folk who believe not. Then bear with them (O Muhammad) and say: Peace. But they will come to know. -Koran 43:88-89
- Say: O disbelievers! I worship not that which ye worship; Nor worship ye that which I worship. And I shall not worship that which ye worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. -Koran 109:1-6
Note that I don't intend to imply that your paraphrases don't exist in those books, but, rather, that both books are equally schizophrenic.
Edited by wfaulk (25/11/2006 03:12)
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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