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#297006 - 14/04/2007 00:49 Don't Be Evil ?!?!
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456

Don't Be Evil? What?!

On what planet is buying DoubleClick "not evil" ?

If you look up "Evil" in the dictionary, it specifically mentions DoubleClick.

At the end of Time Bandits when he warns his parents NOT to touch the Concentrated Evil, he was talking about a small piece of DoubleClick which had broken off an ad banner and fallen backward in time!

I like the Googmeisters in general, but what in the hell are they doing here?

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#297007 - 14/04/2007 01:06 Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?! [Re: music]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
Um...I think I missed something...
_________________________
Matt

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#297008 - 14/04/2007 01:22 Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?! [Re: Dignan]
Shonky
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Google bought Doubleclick for 3 odd billion
_________________________
Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)

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#297009 - 14/04/2007 02:08 Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?! [Re: Shonky]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
Google bought Doubleclick for 3 odd billion

But they are not Microsoft so it is all OK.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#297010 - 14/04/2007 05:14 Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?! [Re: jimhogan]
adavidw
addict

Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Utah, USA
And Microsoft was rumored to be wanting to buy Doubleclick. So, it's possible that Google thought that the combination of Microsoft+Doubleclick would be more evil than Google+Doubleclick, and extended their "Don't be evil" credo to also mean "Make a potentially very evil situation a little less evil when time and 3 billion dollars permits".

Or, they could be buying Doubleclick just to shut them down... Not very likely, I know.
_________________________
-Aaron

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#297011 - 14/04/2007 10:03 Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?! [Re: adavidw]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
Quote:
it's possible that Google thought that the combination of Microsoft+Doubleclick would be more evil than Google+Doubleclick


Doubleclick probably isn't "evil" by modern standards now (but *I* still firmly associate them with evil, and block them at my firewall). Anyone who installs Google toolbar, desktop, or just "preferences" for the search page, is already being tracked at least as invasively as DC ever tracked them.

You do disable cookies for Google, right.. ?

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#297012 - 14/04/2007 12:46 Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?! [Re: mlord]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Most people don't see the wolf under Google's sheep's clothing. They are no more nor no less "evil" than Microsoft or Adobe. All three of them are less evil than Walmart.

I can't get over the price. $3B. More than AMD paid for ATI. More than the (also insane) price eBay paid for Skype. Wow.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#297013 - 14/04/2007 15:14 Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?! [Re: mlord]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Quote:
You do disable cookies for Google, right.. ?


Absotively!

Quote:
can't get over the price. $3B. More than AMD paid for ATI.


Yeah, and they got ripped off. But nVidia would have been much much more expensive. AMD definitely needed to by a graphics chip company and unfortunately for them there were only two real candidates. One good but super-expensive one, and one crappy but only very-expensive one.
AMD should have purchased nVidia 4-5 years ago, but hindsight is 20/20.

Anyway, back to DoubleClick and Google...
I read that when the bidding got to $2B, Microsoft said "too rich for my blood" and folded their hand. While Google is more like a 12-year-old who just inherited a fortune from a distant relative and is busy blowing it on candy and trinkets.

I suppose at $3B Google isn't getting very much "Evil per dollar"

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#297014 - 15/04/2007 02:32 Re: Don't Be Evil ?!?! [Re: music]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I don't work for ATI (anymore) but I still think AMD got the deal of the year for ATI. That needs to be taken in perspective of course. Based on the technology and promise the company had, I feel its stock was undervalued. NVIDIA's stock on the other hand was way overvalued. Even buying NVIDIA at the same price as ATI would have been a foolish mistake. NV is still far behind the curve where it counts for AMD - integrated and mobile graphics. They do much better than ATI with marketing and that helps pull the wool over many people's eyes, but most of their stuff is shite. I suppose AMD could have pieced-off NV and made quite a bit back...

ATI has plenty of issues on the desktop graphics side too, so don't get me wrong. NVIDIA was offered to ATI at what would now be considered a "gift" back in the Riva days. It wouldn't have been that big a deal to acquire them, but I'm not certain it would have been a good move as it would have changed the landscape in some pretty unpredictable ways. I don't know what the future will hold for AMD, but at this time I still think ATI got the short end of the stick (I don't feel they needed the buy-out and I haven't seen it grow their business in a big way yet).

Spending $2B on Skype was ludicrous, even if it has some decent buzz. Unfortunately that buzz has stolen some thunder from more meaningful (for non computer-based talking) VOIP providers.

Doubleclick still gets a lot of traffic and use by a lot of popular sites. If you have an otherwise "unlimited" pool of cash lying around I supposed "why not" spend $3B.

None of this is as mind-boggling as the amount of money being flushed down the toilet by the US government on military and defence spending year after year.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#297015 - 16/04/2007 14:37 Supplementary Evil [Re: music]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Today's News:

Google plus Clear Channel something something.

oh, man. must think happy thoughts, must think happy thoughts. fingers in ears. la la la la la.

Quick, here are 3 things I still like about Google.
  1. Uncluttered front page
  2. gmail
  3. Google Spreadsheet

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#297016 - 16/04/2007 14:58 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: music]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Eh, they're just buying advertising space on Clear Channel stations to resell to advertisers.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#297017 - 11/05/2007 17:27 Ancillary Evil [Re: music]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#297018 - 12/05/2007 06:17 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: music]
SuperQ
addict

Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
I'll add to that Maps/Earth

Even if a lot of what I want out of maps I get from yelp.. they do a very good google maps API overlay.
_________________________
80gig red mk2 -- 080000125
(No, I don't actually hate Alan Cox)

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#297019 - 12/05/2007 12:03 Re: Ancillary Evil [Re: wfaulk]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Wow, the synopsis of that proposal doesn't mention anything that should prevent them from operating google.cn. It seems to allow for the sensorship as a last resort, once the legal case has been established, so long as it is documented and made public. Seems totally reasonable and the right thing to do.

Personally, I've never felt Google is very much different than any other corporation, though I know a lot of people see them as some sort of white-knight company. They're here to make money in the end. Some freebies and goodwill might come along the way, but they're all going to help the bottom line in the end. Can't forget Microsoft also gave and still gives some freebies too.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#297020 - 16/05/2007 22:29 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: music]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Quote:
oh, man. must think happy thoughts, must think happy thoughts. fingers in ears. la la la la la.

Quick, here are 3 things I still like about Google.
  1. Uncluttered front page


I spoke too soon.
Today a "menu bar" appeared on the Google front page.

Is this simply a well-reasoned organization of a clean and simple interface?

Or is it the first stumble on a downslide leading eventually to a front page cluttered with Flash animations of dancing wombats, 32-point red blink tags, 19 layers of frames, slow-loading cascading mouse-over menus, an embedded sound-clip, a stock ticker scrolling across the bottom, and of course, the entire search box and search button embedded inside of a Flash or Java app that you can't even access until you click through two pages of interstitial banners. (I.e., think Yahoo or Ebay)

Time will tell.

Anyway, one down, two to go.

Or as we say on this side of the Atlantic: "Steeeerike One"

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#297021 - 17/05/2007 01:19 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: music]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Quote:
oh, man. must think happy thoughts, must think happy thoughts. fingers in ears. la la la la la.

Quick, here are 3 things I still like about Google.
  1. Uncluttered front page


I spoke too soon.
Today a "menu bar" appeared on the Google front page.

Is this simply a well-reasoned organization of a clean and simple interface?

Or is it the first stumble on a downslide leading eventually to a front page cluttered with Flash animations of dancing wombats, 32-point red blink tags, 19 layers of frames, slow-loading cascading mouse-over menus, an embedded sound-clip, a stock ticker scrolling across the bottom, and of course, the entire search box and search button embedded inside of a Flash or Java app that you can't even access until you click through two pages of interstitial banners. (I.e., think Yahoo or Ebay)

Time will tell.

Anyway, one down, two to go.

Or as we say on this side of the Atlantic: "Steeeerike One"


Wow. Yeah, I'm right there with ya. I can't fücking believe those evil bastards moved the "Web - Images - Groups - Etc." links from between the Google logo and the search field to the top of the screen. I'm tellin' ya, it's probably only a matter of moments until you hear the jackboots kicking in your door.

Isn't there enough negative in the world without all this "Me Too!" FUD?
_________________________
Dave

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#297022 - 17/05/2007 04:58 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: webroach]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Quote:
those evil bastards moved the "Web - Images - Groups - Etc." links from between the Google logo and the search field to the top of the screen. I'm tellin' ya, it's probably only a matter of moments until you hear the jackboots kicking in your door.


I hear ya, man! It's definitely one of the signs of the Apocalypse!

(Something tells me I forget to put a smiley after my earlier overreaction.)

Quote:
Isn't there enough negative in the world without all this "Me Too!" FUD?


I'm not following you on this one, though. What exactly am I "me tooing"?

Hey, as far as I know there isn't exactly a large army of people joining me on my solo crusade for simpler and cleaner interfaces. Just take a quick look around at the flash-encrusted web of today. Yep, I'm pretty much an "Army of One" (whatever that means).

OK, OK, I could probably convince Edward Tufte and Jakob Nielsen to be on my side. So maybe there's as many as three of us to "me too" each other.

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#297023 - 17/05/2007 14:05 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: music]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
But what if I *like* wombats?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#297024 - 17/05/2007 14:09 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: music]
cushman
veteran

Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
Quote:
Jakob Nielsen

Master of minimalist, usable, UGLY-ASS design.
_________________________
Mark Cushman

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#297025 - 17/05/2007 14:18 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: cushman]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Jakob Nielsen's web site.

It's certainly "UGLY-ASS". I don't know that I'd go so far as to call a nearly undifferentiated list of links "usable", though.

Edward Tufte's web site.

Has the potential of being better, but what with all the blurbs at the top, taking up prime real estate, and the completely undifferentiated links down the right-hand side, it turns lousy pretty quickly. He's more of a graphic artist than a web designer, though.


Edited by wfaulk (17/05/2007 14:22)
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#297026 - 17/05/2007 14:35 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: cushman]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Quote:
Quote:
Jakob Nielsen

Master of minimalist, usable, UGLY-ASS design.


I wanted to quickly point out here that I didn't mean to imply I was on board whatsoever with Nielsens' "UGLY-ASS minimalism." Nielsen has a lot of ideas, many of them rather terrible. I only cited him because he wrote an article once called "Flash: 99% Bad". Of course, he is also apparently somewhat of an arrogant jerk by many reports. Also, after he was hired by Macromedia, he wrote an article titled "Flash: 99% Good". So you really can't place too much weight on such a self-serving weasel.

Tufte, on the other hand, I am totally on board with his books and graphic methods for books and charts. However, I'm still a little bit skeptical of any of his web prowess, since I think he still says "computer displays are not dense enough to display information well" so I suspect any of his web-related efforts are somewhat half-hearted -- though I could be wrong on that count.
Also, he was one of the first people to go on a long extended "PowerPoint Sucks" rant, so I respect that!

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#297027 - 17/05/2007 22:33 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: music]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
Hey, as far as I know there isn't exactly a large army of people joining me on my solo crusade for simpler and cleaner interfaces. Just take a quick look around at the flash-encrusted web of today. Yep, I'm pretty much an "Army of One" (whatever that means).

Oh, I don't know. I joined the Anti-Flashturbation League in 2002. Does that count?

Call me paranoid. I liked Google's links just where there were, thank you, and am not sure I like what my fervent imagination thinks that could portend.

But here's what really troubles me: If you want to tell Google you don't like the change, how exactly do you do that? I am reminded of Klaatu's ship on The Mall.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#297028 - 17/05/2007 22:43 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: wfaulk]
adavidw
addict

Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Utah, USA
Quote:
Jakob Nielsen's web site.
...
Edward Tufte's web site.



Ow. I looked at those and they both hurt me.
_________________________
-Aaron

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#297029 - 18/05/2007 02:07 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: jimhogan]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
But here's what really troubles me: If you want to tell Google you don't like the change, how exactly do you do that? I am reminded of Klaatu's ship on The Mall.


Gee, I don't know... how about clicking on "About Google" then "Contact Us"?

Though that's probably a just another way they're being evil: giving people a simple way to voice their opinion.

_________________________
Dave

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#297030 - 18/05/2007 07:17 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: webroach]
frog51
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Or always use your personalised Google site - make it look however you want, and with Greasmonkey and a couple of other firefox plugins you can have it entirely without ads as well if you like.

I see no evil here...
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock

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#297031 - 18/05/2007 10:53 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: music]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
Today a "menu bar" appeared on the Google front page.

I use Google constantly, but I hadn't bothered until today to even look at the front page, as I use it exclusively via a Firefox keyword. As such, they can put anything they want onto the front page. I'll never see it until someone tells me to go look at it.

That said, it seems to me moving those links to a different location on the page is merely to match it up with the rest of their services. Unsurprisingly, Gmail, Google Calendar, etc. all have them tucked away up top, out of the way and unobtrusive.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#297032 - 18/05/2007 11:48 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: music]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
The UK site hasn't changed, but I much prefer the new US layout. It looks even cleaner than it did before, and it was already super cleany clean clean.

Rob


Edited by rob (18/05/2007 11:49)

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#297033 - 18/05/2007 18:12 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: rob]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Quote:
wfaulk: merely to match it up with the rest of their services. Unsurprisingly, Gmail, Google Calendar, etc. all have them tucked away up top, out of the way and unobtrusive.


Quote:
Rob: The UK site hasn't changed, but I much prefer the new US layout. It looks even cleaner than it did before, and it was already super cleany clean clean.


Yeah, I actually like it, too.
And I think it was a good user interface choice, and will allow them to layer in more services in the future without adding much clutter.

My original "Oh No! A Menubar!" post was intended to be a slightly humorous and self-mocking post poking fun at my paranoia about privacy rights in general and of Google's growing tentacles in particular. And perhaps somewhat mocking my general disdain of Web 2.0 Hype and "style over substance" web design.

As such, my post failed on pretty much every count.
It wasn't very funny.
It wasn't clear I was sort of mocking my foibles.
And some people took it as a personal attack on the kind of web design they like to interact with -- or get paid to do.

No offense was intended.

And I'll try to remember that I sometimes have difficulty conveying a light-hearted tone and humorous spirit when writing for online viewing.

It's just that I live very near the Googleplex. And sometimes at night when I'm sleeping, when my Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie gets knocked slightly askew, I can feel their Brainwaves searching for me, reaching for me, taunting me....

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#297034 - 18/05/2007 23:56 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: webroach]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
Quote:
But here's what really troubles me: If you want to tell Google you don't like the change, how exactly do you do that? I am reminded of Klaatu's ship on The Mall.


Gee, I don't know... how about clicking on "About Google" then "Contact Us"?

Aha! I see that you have fallen into my cleverly-constructed trap! He who dares to mock The Immense Hogan must perform nine Great Feats if he is to live....honorably.

Your first Feat: follow the link you so bravely boast about and find the simple webform or email address where Jim can simply, electronically say "I like the old menu placement better. Could that be a configurable option?"

Quote:
Though that's probably a just another way they're being evil: giving people a simple way to voice their opinion.



If you accomplish this feat, the other eight, easier feats will be waived.

And you get to dope slap The Immense Hogan.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#297035 - 19/05/2007 00:35 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: jimhogan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Damn, it wasn't easy...

Click here for a web form

Maybe there was a more direct route, but froom the initial Contact Us I had to do a big loop with no less than 10-20 clicks before I landed on that page.
_________________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#297036 - 19/05/2007 00:46 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: hybrid8]
cushman
veteran

Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
Quote:
Maybe there was a more direct route...

Yes. Search for "google contact form" on Google and it is the first hit.
_________________________
Mark Cushman

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#297037 - 19/05/2007 01:11 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: hybrid8]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
Damn, it wasn't easy...

Click here for a web form

Maybe there was a more direct route, but froom the initial Contact Us I had to do a big loop with no less than 10-20 clicks before I landed on that page.


So off we go:


http://www.google.com/
http://www.google.com/intl/en/about.html
http://www.google.com/intl/en/contact/index.html
http://www.google.com/support/?hl=en (maybe?)

....something...something..something...

http://www.google.com/support/bin/reques...Search=Continue

Now *that's* a URL!

But you have cheated Webroach of his dope slap. I appreciate the effort, though. I am less patient.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#297038 - 19/05/2007 01:23 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: cushman]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe there was a more direct route...

Yes. Search for "google contact form" on Google and it is the first hit.

That's cheating

And it also smacks of a company that is drunkenly in love with its own metaphor. (Ignoring some basic navigation aids for us poor linear thinkers.)

I don't have any conspiratorial notions about the Big G, but any feelings I might have had in the vein of hero worship have dimmed. Free food for Googlistas (grand. 'tho a two-pronged benefit) and they use Linux and do stuff like Summer of Code, but I think the paint faded on "Don't Be Evil" as the brand crossed the Great Wall into China. Just another company. Just another bigger-every-day company. How did certain tech companies treat their customers during the times when they felt they ruled the roost? IBM, Novell, Microsoft?

Time will tell.

I would find a simple "Contact Us" link reassuring.

And I liked the menu just where it was, thank you
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#297039 - 19/05/2007 02:04 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: jimhogan]
cushman
veteran

Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
Quote:
That's cheating

I found it interesting that the same search string on MSN produces the same result, but Yahoo points you to the main Contact Us section in Google.

Quote:
And it also smacks of a company that is drunkenly in love with its own metaphor. (Ignoring some basic navigation aids for us poor linear thinkers.)

I'm sure if you work at Google, it's hard NOT to assume that is the way it should be done. I don't think it's done on purpose (they actually have a Feedback teaser text on this About page which makes me think they had a generic feedback form at some point. Google isn't just a few people anymore, and they don't just have a single product. What are you going to contact them about? Maps? AdWords? Angry because your website isn't the first hit for "consultant"? Providing a generic feedback form is kind of hard to manage when you are growing like Google is.

Quote:
I think the paint faded on "Don't Be Evil" as the brand crossed the Great Wall into China.

I agree. I have been concerned about this, also. Wikipedia is not budging on their stance that they must not be censored in any way (I listened to Jimmy Wales give the keynote at an event last week and discuss this topic). I hoped that Google would head down this path. They've caved on this issue because they think they will be able to make a bigger difference if they are in China instead of being blocked. I can't help but think this might be a bit of a financial decision, though.
_________________________
Mark Cushman

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#297040 - 19/05/2007 03:13 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: jimhogan]
webroach
old hand

Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
But you have cheated Webroach of his dope slap.


DAMN STRAIGHT!

Sheesh, here I try to just get like 5 hours of sleep, and someone goes and swipes my Dope Slap®. It's getting so you just can't trust people anymore.

All joking aside, the " " in my original post (the one with "How about...") was intended as a single, overarching " ". But I still say that the mere existence of a feedback form somewhere on the site puts them ahead of quite a few companies who make it impossible to give them a piece of your mind.

_________________________
Dave

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#297041 - 19/05/2007 03:24 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: jimhogan]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
Haha, if you think emailing them is hard, try contacting them by phone sometime.

We had an amnesty deal at work where if you had an attachment out for your arrest for an unpaid parking ticket, you could pay the ticket without having to pay attachment fines. One of the higher ups thought it would be a good idea to list every person's name and address that had an attachment on a series of web pages, sorted by last name, so it would be easier to check and see if YOU had an attachment you didn't know about. It was public record anyway, so they didn't see a problem with it.

3 months went by and the program was concluded. Then we got a call from a lady that was mortified that her contact info was easily searchable in google. Since the pages did not require an logon, and since the genius that put up the page didn't tell the spiders not to cache it, her name was stuck in google's cached pages, along with her home address.

What makes this a big deal is that she was a victim in a spousal abuse case, and was currently hiding from her ex. Now, google has a tool to wipe http sites from their cache, but it's broken when you try to kill an https page. I called for 3 days and could get NOONE but extremely basic tech support, who had no idea how to get a hold of anyone with any power. Thankfully, the cached pages expired without her ex seeing them, or we could have been on the hook for a lawsuit that we should have, and probably would have, lost.

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#297042 - 19/05/2007 03:48 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: lectric]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
Haha, if you think emailing them is hard, try contacting them by phone sometime.

We had an amnesty deal at work where if you had an attachment out for your arrest for an unpaid parking ticket, you could pay the ticket without having to pay attachment fines. One of the higher ups thought it would be a good idea to list every person's name and address that had an attachment on a series of web pages, sorted by last name, so it would be easier to check and see if YOU had an attachment you didn't know about. It was public record anyway, so they didn't see a problem with it.

3 months went by and the program was concluded. Then we got a call from a lady that was mortified that her contact info was easily searchable in google. Since the pages did not require an logon, and since the genius that put up the page didn't tell the spiders not to cache it, her name was stuck in google's cached pages, along with her home address.

What makes this a big deal is that she was a victim in a spousal abuse case, and was currently hiding from her ex. Now, google has a tool to wipe http sites from their cache, but it's broken when you try to kill an https page. I called for 3 days and could get NOONE but extremely basic tech support, who had no idea how to get a hold of anyone with any power. Thankfully, the cached pages expired without her ex seeing them, or we could have been on the hook for a lawsuit that we should have, and probably would have, lost.

Holy farking Klaatu.

So, what's Morley Safer like in person?
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#297043 - 19/05/2007 12:35 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: lectric]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Out of curiosity, if it was a matter of public record then, doesn't it remain a matter of public record?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#297044 - 19/05/2007 16:17 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: lectric]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Now, google has a tool to wipe http sites from their cache, but it's broken when you try to kill an https page. I called for 3 days and could get NOONE but extremely basic tech support

Even if you had found success with Google, they wouldn't be the only search database you'd need to clean.

Genie. Bottle.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#297045 - 19/05/2007 17:15 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: tfabris]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
Genie. Bottle.

More like "Pee. Pool."
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#297046 - 22/05/2007 12:52 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: rob]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
Quote:
The UK site hasn't changed, but I much prefer the new US layout. It looks even cleaner than it did before, and it was already super cleany clean clean.

Rob


Could someone please remind me how to get Google to show the non-Canadian USA version for me here?

Thanks.

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#297047 - 22/05/2007 13:39 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: mlord]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Quote:

Could someone please remind me how to get Google to show the non-Canadian USA version for me here?


Doesn't http://google.com/ work ? From here http://google.co.uk/ takes me to the UK one, http://google.ca/ goes to the Canadian one and http://google.com/ goes to the US one.
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday

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#297048 - 22/05/2007 13:45 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: mlord]
CrackersMcCheese
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
Google.com takes me to .co.uk

Try www.google.us - that takes me to the USA site.

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#297049 - 22/05/2007 14:00 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: mlord]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
http://www.google.com/ncr will take you to the US one.

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#297050 - 22/05/2007 17:14 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: andy]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Quote:

Could someone please remind me how to get Google to show the non-Canadian USA version for me here?


Doesn't http://google.com/ work ? From here http://google.co.uk/ takes me to the UK one, http://google.ca/ goes to the Canadian one and http://google.com/ goes to the US one.


No, here google.com simply redirects to google.ca.

EDIT: Oops.. not now: they've changed it (today, since my original post here!) and now google.com takes me to the USA site.


Edited by mlord (22/05/2007 17:16)

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#297051 - 22/05/2007 21:22 Re: Supplementary Evil [Re: wfaulk]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
Quote:
Out of curiosity, if it was a matter of public record then, doesn't it remain a matter of public record?


Funny thing, public record law... Just because a document is created by the government does not automatically make it a public record. There are plenty of cases of public records requests being denied. Public records may also be redacted to prevent sensitive information from being disseminated, even if the document as a whole is public record.

Personally, I'm a little unsure that what they did in the first place was proper. It's very personal information, posted in a very public way. Granted, 95% of us have our number and address in the phone book, but there are plenty of people that choose to pay for an unlisted number. I assume they have decent reasons.

Also, even if a record exists, it's disbursement can be denied unless the request is extremely specific. "I need the document entitled $%^& created on #$%." "I need all your records about #$%^& company" will not suffice. If a record does not exist "I need a list of all businesses that paid more than $10,000 in taxes last year" it does NOT have to be created. Requests MUST be made in person or in writing. Email does not count. It's very interesting to see how it all really works.

So no, I don't feel that particular case was public record. Ever. As to the pee already being in the pool, you're exactly right. There was nothing we could really do to undo the damage, we were just trying to get the biggest risk out of the way.

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