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It's a shame that the possession of handguns on campus is disallowed, otherwise the scale of the tragedy could have been averted. Hopefully this will motivate congress to get rid of the silly "gun-free zones".

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It's a shame that the possession of handguns on campus is disallowed, otherwise the scale of the tragedy could have been averted. Hopefully this will motivate congress to get rid of the silly "gun-free zones".

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It's a shame that the possession of handguns on campus is disallowed, otherwise the scale of the tragedy could have been averted. Hopefully this will motivate congress to get rid of the silly "gun-free zones".

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How many people would have been killed over the past couple of years if students at large carried guns like they carry iPods? Perhaps more than in this single tragedy.

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However, I am a little irritated at the news coverage.

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....But 33 dead in Iraq probably happens before daybreak. ....

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I especially like the fact that everyone in the media is looking for a scapegoat since about 10 minutes after it happened. How 'bout just blaming the gunman, hmm?

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Or the inability to carry fully-automatic pistols everywhere.

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I especially like the fact that everyone in the media is looking for a scapegoat since about 10 minutes after it happened. How 'bout just blaming the gunman, hmm?

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I think we all can agree it would have been nice if someone (police officer, student, pimp, nun …etc) would have capped the shooter's ass before he slaughtered the lambs.

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I think we all can agree it would have been nice if someone (police officer, student, pimp, nun …etc) would have capped the shooter's ass before he slaughtered the lambs.

Yeah. But what's with the macho posturing language?

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I especially like the fact that everyone in the media is looking for a scapegoat since about 10 minutes after it happened. How 'bout just blaming the gunman, hmm?

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I especially like the fact that everyone in the media is looking for a scapegoat since about 10 minutes after it happened. How 'bout just blaming the gunman, hmm?

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"It disgusts me," said Isaiah Triforce Johnson, a longtime gamer and founder of a New York-based gaming advocacy group...

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As Jim so ellegantly put it: if you ban guns, people will still get them. The best way to fight gun violience is not to be Big Brother like the UK (sorry guys), but to attack the manufacturers and distributors. Give them a taste of their own medicine, eh?

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I think if Cho had lived in this country it wouldn't have happened.

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I think if Cho had lived in this country it wouldn't have happened.

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The best way to fight gun violience is not to be Big Brother like the UK (sorry guys)

Bwah ha ha ha ha

ROFL!!!

I've still got the ink on my fingers from when I got fingerprinted for going to the US for a skiing trip - hey, no-one ever told me ... did the USSR fingerprint foreign visitors routinely?

Oh and what about the wiretaps for foreign communication?

The NSA? What with their [censored in transit] project and what about [censored in transit]? Answer me that.

Ah, "Homeland Security" - nothing Orwellian about that one eh?

The "PATRIOT" act - gosh, what a coincidence that those initials turned out like that - who woulda guessed! I'll bet an act like that is full of American values like apple pie, civil liberties and the like! Anyone not liking that must be real un-american.

TSA? Ok, that's a joke - or is it they're a joke - never sure.

No-fly lists? Don't you need to be a senator or a dead-terrorist to get on one of them?

And what about those "democratic" elections you have over there?

Puleeez Mr Kettle


There is no rational argument that supports public ownership of guns and prevents making chemical weapons or explosives in your kitchen.

Having said that, this was a statistical blip that was horrid for the families - almost, but not quite, as bad as having a child run down by a drunk driver. Maybe one who's had a DUI charge in the past. Or maybe one that just gets off totally free to drive around some more? How many of them do you have a year in the entire US, 10? 20? maybe as many as 40?

Or is it in the hundreds or thousands? More?

Actually - forget "almost as bad". It's nowhere near as bad.

Its simply that we like our media to put on a circus where they can entertain us with bloodbaths worthy of the Romans.

Oh, if anyone's interested this weeks New Scientist has an article talking about TV, gaming and the like and the relationship to violence. The scientific analysis behind these is complex and subject to media rebuttal (global warming, cigarettes=cancer anyone?) but there's a new tack...

They are analysing the *strength* of the analysis - meta-analysis. It shows that the evidence for TV/gaming to violence is not quite as strong as the evidence that cigarettes cause cancer but it is stronger than:
* Passive smoking causing lung cancer (2x stronger)
* Condoms reducing HIV (2x stronger)
* Calcium making bones stronger (3x stronger)
* Time spent on homework vs academic success (3x stronger)

So if you believe the science behind any of them then ask yourself why you don't (want to?) believe the science behind violence in society and the media.

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I think if Cho had lived in this country it wouldn't have happened.

I disagree. If he wanted one bad enough, he'd have found one. If I wanted a gun, I could easily get hold of one.

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Okay you've got my interest, how exactly would you go about that?

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I've still got the ink on my fingers from when I got fingerprinted for going to the US for a skiing trip - hey, no-one ever told me ... did the USSR fingerprint foreign visitors routinely?

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In this scenario, only the ruling elite will have access to these superior fighting tools.

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working their blue/white collar day-to-day jobs in the Big Brother Capital of the world, forfeiting 70% or more of the fruits of their labor to the Bank of England, the Queen, and the international coterie of insider financiers through their utopic Socialist system of control.

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I'll just point out that a comparison between the US and the UK in regards to gun control is invalid. There are far too many differences between the countries, politically, geographically, and socially, for there to be a reasonable mapping between the two. A much more realistic comparison might be between the US and Australia.

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Okay you've got my interest, how exactly would you go about that?

Mail order from the US?

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For air mail this is unlikely (everything is x-rayed), but for some surface mail or containerised freight it would be stupidly easy.

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For air mail this is unlikely (everything is x-rayed), but for some surface mail or containerised freight it would be stupidly easy.

Rio made the interesting decision to use "TNT" as the internal code-name for the product which became the Rio Carbon. That project occupied our attention so much at the time that, to us, it became the primary meaning of the word TNT. This resulted, on at least one occasion, in Rio Santa Clara sending over here to Cambridge a box clearly labelled on its customs declaration "TNT Samples" and containing (what to an X-ray machine would be) small, unidentifiable circuit boards. Customs hadn't even opened it.

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Don't forget that Britain elected its socialist government, despite the existence of a less socialist alternative. Gun control is also massively electorally popular.

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In fact, most taxation goes towards education, the national health service, and benefits for the disadvantaged. All those are things I'm happy to see my money spent on -- I can't make it add up to 70%, only 60%, but perhaps you're using out-of-date income tax numbers?

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In fact, most taxation goes towards education, the national health service, and benefits for the disadvantaged. All those are things I'm happy to see my money spent on -- I can't make it add up to 70%, only 60%, but perhaps you're using out-of-date income tax numbers?

Don't forget sales tax and excise taxes.

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I assume your house is lined with tinfoil to stop the government controlled signals getting in, right?

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Oh and what about the wiretaps for foreign communication?

The NSA? What with their [censored in transit] project and what about [censored in transit]? Answer me that.

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Anyone else getting the words above censored?

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I think it is humor guys.

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I have no need for a gun and I don't see what anyone else needs one for.

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Even with all the burglaries, car thievery, and drunken rowdiness that I often hear about?

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Why else would they need security cameras outside and inside every building and traffic cameras monitoring the movement of cars.

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I have no need for a gun and I don't see what anyone else needs one for.

Even with all the burglaries, car thievery, and drunken rowdiness that I often hear about?

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Ah, OK, I thought it may have something to do with CALEA or ECHELON

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I have no need for a gun and I don't see what anyone else needs one for.

Even with all the burglaries, car thievery, and drunken rowdiness that I often hear about?

I can't really see drunken rowdiness and widespread gun ownership being a great combination.

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I have no need for a gun and I don't see what anyone else needs one for.

Even with all the burglaries, car thievery, and drunken rowdiness that I often hear about?

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Being able to check traffic density before you head out is really useful. Every first world country should have it.

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Being able to check traffic density before you head out is really useful. Every first world country should have it.

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Being able to check traffic density before you head out is really useful. Every first world country should have it.

From what I understand, the use of CCTV was started by the Brittish government in the 70s, due to the IRA attacks of the time....
I do have to question why so much surveillance is needed though. One of the many differences between US and UK culture I suppose.

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Being able to check traffic density before you head out is really useful. Every first world country should have it.

Cameras do a pretty poor job of monitoring overall traffic. They can help focus in on what might be causing it (unreported accident, mass of animals in the highway, whatever)

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Just an actual honest questioning of the CCTV practices there that I thought could be answered here.

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So they don't have cameras covering pedestrian precincts in city centres and road interchanges in the US? Or were you assuming there's one on every street corner like in V for Vendetta?

I would've thought CCTV is no more prevalent in the UK than it is in the US.

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Just an actual honest questioning of the CCTV practices there that I thought could be answered here.

So they don't have cameras covering pedestrian precincts in city centres and road interchanges in the US? Or were you assuming there's one on every street corner like in V for Vendetta?

I would've thought CCTV is no more prevalent in the UK than it is in the US.

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You guys are practically Big Brother compared to us.

Don't start recursing in threads - you'll break the BBS

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Why anyone would have a problem with it is beyond me.... unless they've got something to hide.

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I would've thought CCTV is no more prevalent in the UK than it is in the US.

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According to the latest studies, Britain has a staggering 4.2million CCTV cameras - one for every 14 people in the country - and 20 per cent of cameras globally. It has been calculated that each person is caught on camera an average of 300 times daily.

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On the wall outside [George Orwell's] former residence - flat number 27B - where [he] lived until his death in 1950, an historical plaque commemorates the anti-authoritarian author. And within 200 yards of the flat, there are 32 CCTV cameras, scanning every move.

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Why anyone would have a problem with it is beyond me.... unless they've got something to hide.

This is always a terrible, terrible, argument. I realize that the UK gov't isn't nearly as advanced in its fascism as the current US gov't is, but if that infrastructure is in place and and it does head in that direction, are you still going to have the same argument when they decide that what you're doing is wrong?

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Assuming that that 20% number is accurate, compare that to the UK having less than 1% of the total Earth's population and less than 0.2% of the Earth's total land mass.

<dons tinfoil hat>You're assuming you can see all the cameras in the US</dons tinfoil hat>

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but once that infrastructure is there, it becomes available for abuse, both above and below board.

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The ones that are linked to a central control room are very much local efforts, with some spotty security guard sat watching them.

If some future government did decide to cross the line, it would only take an evening of direct action to disable all the cameras in the country.

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but once that infrastructure is there, it becomes available for abuse, both above and below board.

If some future government did decide to cross the line, it would only take an evening of direct action to disable all the cameras in the country.

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but once that infrastructure is there, it becomes available for abuse, both above and below board.

It isn't as if they are all central controlled, a huge number of the cameras are in fact privately owned, probably don't work and if they do someone has probably forgot to put a tape in the VCR.