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#302341 - 21/09/2007 15:42 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: hybrid8]
bbowman
enthusiast

Registered: 12/05/2002
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia, USA
I believe that the focus of hybrid8's question was on the cultural differences between the US and many others around the world as opposed to cash gifts at weddings.

My wife is from Laos and we do alot of entertaining. She is constantly shocked when an "American" guest asks if they should bring anything to the dinner. She believes that they should already know that there is an unspoken "list" of things to bring to such a function; wine, champaign, flowers, etc. She also doesn't understand why some people bring nothing to parties or dinners that someone hosts.

Our non-American guests (Europeans, Asians, middle-easterners) all seem to bring something to dinner. Elsewhere in the world, it is conisdered rude to not show some sort of appreciation for the effort that the host makes aside fom a simple Thank you.

In our wedding, we did not make a registry and we announced that if anyone wanted to give us a wedding gift, that it had to be in an envelope - a suttle reference to monetary-only gifts. Of course, we were already well-established, so a registry wouldn't have made sense.

It is mainly cultural (which is evidenced by some of the responses here). Imagine calling a Japanese man cheap for not leaving a tip in a restaurant here when it is rather insulting or irritating to tip in Japan.

The funny thing is that is seems to be a contemporary cultural thing, because when we invite older Americans (60+ years old), they always bring smething.

Personally, I like the idea of bringing something to dinner/weddings. It seems like the right thing to do.


Edited by bbowman (21/09/2007 16:35)
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#302342 - 21/09/2007 15:48 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: bbowman]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
She is constantly shocked when an "American" guest asks if they should bring anything to the dinner.

There's a lot of tradition in "covered-dish dinners" in the Southern US and probably in large portions of the rest of the US, too. This is not a query as to if they should bring something, but what they should bring. It's not unknown for guests to bring various side dishes, from vegetable casseroles to starches to desserts.
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#302343 - 21/09/2007 16:24 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: bbowman]
jmwking
old hand

Registered: 27/02/2003
Posts: 777
Loc: Washington, DC metro
Quote:
The funny thing is that is seems to be a contemporary cultural thing, because when we invite older Americans (60+ years old), they always bring smething.


I, too, was born and raised in the South (of the US). I was taught to always bring something. I usually bring a bottle of wine to friends' parties.

But always a bottle of bourbon to family parties.

-jk

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#302344 - 21/09/2007 18:08 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: Dignan]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Quote:
Quote:
Clue- it's *your* wedding that you are sharing with *them*.
They are paying you the respect of attending.

Why are you asking/demanding more?
WTF?

Do you also 'keep score' at birthdays and Christmas?

This all sounds extremely shallow. Let me know if I'm confused on that point.

Don't take this as rude, but have you gone through the process yourself? If so, did you have the traditional ceremony/reception type of event? I can definitely see where Bruno is coming from, having just recently gone through the process myself. What he's saying may seem kind of shallow, and sometimes I feel the same way, but this is a tricky business, this wedding stuff.

I just got married in August. I agree 100% with Robotic. We didn't invite people so that we could get prezzies, we invited them because we wanted to share our wedding with them. The only gift desired of them was their attendance -- and we made that clear in the invitation.

Quote:
But I really don't think a wedding is about the attendees. It is certainly nice of the guests to come, and I loved having so many of the people who were important to me in my life being there. But the fact is, they are getting a VERY nice free meal (at least in my case), and almost every tradition, common courtesy, and rule of etiquette say that it's polite to at least bring something, and most often to bring something that's likely to cover the cost of your plate at the dinner.

And since those people were so important to me in my life, the least I can do for them in return, is pay for the cost of their meal, and evening, without some sort of unwritten expectation that there should be any return.

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#302345 - 21/09/2007 18:14 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: peter]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Quote:
Quote:
bowls (each about two feet tall), and we have absolutely nowhere to put them.

...and in fact it was bowls that did my cousin in: all very nice bowls, mind you

Dang... we got bowls, too! What is it that makes people think, "hey, why don't I give them a bowl?".

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#302346 - 21/09/2007 19:19 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: canuckInOR]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
Quote:
I just got married in August. I agree 100% with Robotic. We didn't invite people so that we could get prezzies

I never said I did. That's a little insulting.

I guess I see a difference between expecting gifts (I wasn't), and thinking it's polite for people to do so (that's me). You're implying a third, that we practically put on our wedding in order to get gifts.

In this area, it is the standard thing to bring gifts. That's what you do, you bring a gift. I do, and so does everyone I've ever met around here.
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#302347 - 21/09/2007 21:05 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I should have totally done at least a minor in anthropology and/or sociology. This kind of thing fascinates me to no end. That's why I posted in the first place. Again, I was in a real hurry when I wrote the initial post - about to step out to pick up food for the evening as we were hosting a couple of friends who just returned from a year away. My fiancée was already giving me dirty looks before I got half way through.

In retrospect I could have worded the subject so it would have a little less impact since from the initial replies I think it took the focus away from what I actually wanted to discuss.

There are not only huge differences between any part of Canada and the US, but also within each country, both covering such an enormous landscape. In my experience however, the US does tend toward a more homogeneous society. I can still remember being in Cape Cod and going to a supposedly "Portuguese" style bakery that might as well have been anything but and the people at the counter were in fact a little offensive about the national/cultural implications/associations. In Canada even many second generation citizens will still link themselves to the roots of their parents/grandparents. Certainly nearly every first generation Canadian I've ever met also considers themselves "xxxxx" (whatever the nationality of their parents).

So many of the customs brought from Europe, Asia and Middle East stick around. And in fact some of them even rub off on the long established anglo population (at least those I know). I think it's important to consider discussions such as this in context. And again, perhaps I should have done a better job of outlining the context and/or asking about customs elsewhere. I believe in the end (or up until now anyway) the gist has been worked through and I certainly understand some additional viewpoints. I hope no one here thinks I'm any more shallow than before I had started this thread. Yes, I'm a wine snob, but really down to earth otherwise.

With regards to last night's dinner... My friend, of eastern european origin, did not bring cash to my place for dinner. He did bring an amazing bottle of wine however. If anyone appreciates a fine wine, I can whole-heartedly recommend the 1994 Rioja from Torre Muga (Spain). If you can find a bottle under $100 it's well worth it.
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#302348 - 21/09/2007 21:31 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: canuckInOR]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Is this where being "bowled over" comes from?

Hugo

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#302349 - 21/09/2007 23:49 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: altman]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
Surely that would be "over-bowled"?

Pca
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#302350 - 22/09/2007 02:22 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: altman]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
We has some amount of being bowled over. One of our guests went "off registry" and got us a hand-carved wood bowl. At least it was small enough to be reasonably easy to handle. A closer relative has some sort of mental short circuit and came to the conclusion that a desktop grandfather-ish clock contraption was just absolutely the perfect gift. They spent a sizable amount of money on it. It's never been out of its box. And never will be. And, they bought it from some obscure location where I can't return it. And where on earth could I ever re-gift it? One guy gave an ice cream maker (because "that's what he always gives"). At least it was easy to return.

In my Jewish family, cash gifts are quite common, particularly for bar/bat mitzvahs (implicit expectation: the money will be invested to send the kid to college) but also for weddings. Several people made sizable gifts. We also did a wedding registry (online at Bed Bath and Beyond) and got ourselves a nice dish pattern and so forth. One relative decided that she could find a better price on some of the bits elsewhere, causing us to ultimately end up with uneven numbers of side plates. Could be worse, but not really a big deal.

In my wife's midwestern family, buying from the registry seemed to be the common answer. I don't think anybody gave cash, but my memory is fading.

In our paper invitation, we said nothing whatsoever about gifts. On our web page (URL included on the paper), we had links to the registry.

We certainly had no expectation of anybody giving anything in particular. There are non-trivial differences in the purchasing power of some of our friends and relatives. In the end, we roughly broke even, but that's largely due to a, umm, long tailed distribution of gifts.

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#302351 - 24/09/2007 17:51 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: Dignan]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Quote:
Quote:
I just got married in August. I agree 100% with Robotic. We didn't invite people so that we could get prezzies

I never said I did. That's a little insulting.

I guess I see a difference between expecting gifts (I wasn't), and thinking it's polite for people to do so (that's me). You're implying a third, that we practically put on our wedding in order to get gifts.

Having thought about this longer, you're very right -- and I'm sorry to have insulted you. We invited people to our wedding, and told them no gifts were necessary -- yet we still expected that people would ignore our request, and bring gifts anyway. (In fact, I even had a friend tell me, "Dude, it's your wedding... I'm not showing up at your wedding without a gift.") Consequently, we also had a registry.

Going back to the original scenario, though, when the invitations contain envelopes in which people are expected to put cash, I think it's a little easier to make an assumption that the line of thinking there is "if you're coming to my wedding, you'd better put some cash in the envelope." I could easily see people being offended by that. It comes across as a "strings-attached" invitation -- if you accept this invitation, you must give money.

With the western-style invitation, the invitation is "no-strings-attached". While it may be tradition to give a gift, and it's probably rude not to give a gift, accepting the invitation is not actually an obligation to do so.

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#302352 - 24/09/2007 18:02 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: canuckInOR]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
In fact, it's worth pointing out that many people send gifts who do not attend the wedding at all. Usually that's people who would have attended but are unable to for whatever reason, but still. The wedding-as-event and the gift are not intrinsically conjoined; they are two leaves on the whole wedding tree.
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#302353 - 24/09/2007 18:10 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: DWallach]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Quote:
We also did a wedding registry (online at Bed Bath and Beyond) and got ourselves a nice dish pattern and so forth. One relative decided that she could find a better price on some of the bits elsewhere, causing us to ultimately end up with uneven numbers of side plates. Could be worse, but not really a big deal.

Too late to help you now, I'm sure, but when you have a registry with BB&B, they'll give you cash back on any returns for items they stock, regardless of whether or not it was on your registry, or purchased from them.

It's very handy, when you have to travel across the country to your own wedding. We took a number of items back to BB&B (even the stuff we wanted) -- with the intent to repurchase them on our return home, so that we wouldn't have to pack them in luggage.

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#302354 - 24/09/2007 18:13 Re: Are Americans as cheap as "Canadians?" [Re: wfaulk]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Quote:
In fact, it's worth pointing out that many people send gifts who do not attend the wedding at all. Usually that's people who would have attended but are unable to for whatever reason, but still. The wedding-as-event and the gift are not intrinsically conjoined; they are two leaves on the whole wedding tree.

True enough -- I've been shocked by the amount of money people, who didn't attend the wedding, have sent as, or spent on, gifts.

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