I've got an alpha version of displayserver 2.0 for someone to try out. It is still not complete. It doesn't provide the applet yet, only a way to browse playlists, play m3u files, download MP3's, upload files and send serial commands to your empeg...
There's no easy install this time; in a few weeks I will have a more mature version
Try it, edit the HTML-files and be amazed...
You can download it from here

Have fun...

Frank van Gestel

Cool Beans!

Downloading now

I'll try it when it is idiot proof or as close as

I just found out that ie5 doesn't like one of the headers. Try using netscape if ie doesn't work.

Frank van Gestel

yeah... the new 2.0 version looks veeery nice !...

how about an link on each playlist-site to go one lever higher (instead pressing the back button in the browser)?

thanks for this one and i'm looking forward for the applet *smile*

KoS

ps.: i have still problems with the 1.1-applet... sometimes it's working and sometimes it isn't?? any idea on this ?

Hi Frank,

How is 2.0 going?

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 26GB blue)

Edited by Derek on 12/09/01 02:46 PM.

Busy, busy, busy...
Mostly with other stuff though; I was baffled and lost for more than a week after the twintower-incident.
I read your post a few days after you posted it and started modeling the alpha version in a usable beta version after that. Then someone launches a new virus, which forced me to do a lot of overwork ( digging around in a network of 7000 IP's isn't a small task ).
There were also some major changes in personal and professional spheres
Enough excuses... I've got a stable beta version and am currently developing a windows based installation tool, which I will release in the upcoming weekend. I've also modified blitmenu to use the empeg's own fonts and mimic the empeg menus. ( I guess I need to do some work for 2.0 )
The install will be different from others in that /sbin/init will not be overwritten. Instead it overwrites /etc/profile to startup blitmenu after selecting quit in the player menu. from there you could start all sorts of stuff. I was thinking of adding emptris in the package. Brian, if you're reading this, I hope this isn't a problem with you?
Another feature of the installer is the ability to flash the kernel from the empeg itself. As hugo suggested somewhere on the BBS, I wrote a simple program for this purpose. This would also allow switching bootup-logo's with blitmenu. Haven't tested yet.
The package I was thinking of would contain:
- displayserver 2.0 (applet included)
- blitmenu
- blitecho ( to display stuff like ps )
- emptris ( if that's okay with Brian )
- kernel with voladj, ir-hack and overlay hack for MK2 from drakino's site

Frank van Gestel

SWEET!

One other thing you could do is write a utility to allow fine adjustment of the parameters to voladj from blitmenu....

___________
Tony Fabris

In reply to:

---

One other thing you could do is write a utility to allow fine adjustment of the parameters to voladj from blitmenu....

---

Yeah, like turning it off completely...

-D

---
reg. #10798 - blue 40gig MK2 #764

A program like blitslider perhaps?

Frank van Gestel

Sounds cool Frank! I've upgraded my player and have been holding off reinstalling DisplayServer as 2.0 didn't seem to be too far away and there have be quite a few discussions about what should be installed where etc lately. Good to see you back on the BBS too!

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 26GB blue)

Sounds awesome frank - let us know if we can help you in any way with this..
-mark

...Still (barely, pending 1.1/2.0/TeAsE release) proud to have owned an Empeg since 00287

You can be a guinea-pig to test on other os'es. I've got win2k running here. I am going to publish the stuff after the last tests tomorrow. I cannot complete the tests tonite because of some synchronizationproblems with emplode

Frank van Gestel

version 2.0 beta 1 is downloadable at http://empeg.dyndns.org/empeg/displayserver2.0b1/


Frank van Gestel

Your installer is excellent, it will make installing future add ons very easy for linux newbies. Maybe im missing something here, but how do i pull up the html pages from the empeg? Just going to the ip with my web browser doesn't work like it used to. I also have some questions on the blitmenu. Why are there 2 displayserver on entries? is one supposed to be an off? If i choose voladj off, it just goes back to the voladj on choice, im not sure it makes the change.

Thanks,
Sean

I have to agree with Sean, the installer works great... however I seem to be having the same issues (i.e. nothing posted on the empeg's IP).

Thanks for all your work, John K

Riocar 40Gig S/N 010101929 - STOLEN
Riocar 30Gig S/N 010101622 - Replacement

All I can say is.... wow! Works great for me (didn't at first... I forgot to switch displayserver on from the menu system, and it doesn't seem to stay switched on between reboots - which would be nice).

Still, being able to remotely play songs on the empeg via a great web interface (rather than navigating through the empeg menus using the ir hack) makes this a serious home music server. I feel lucky to own one and be a part of this great community :-) Thanks Frank!

David, would you mind detailing that process 'turning on the displayserver from the menu'.

I'm sure it's not rocket science, maybe I've configured something incorrectly, but I don't believe I have that option.

Thanks for your help, John K

Riocar 40Gig S/N 010101929 - STOLEN
Riocar 30Gig S/N 010101622 - Replacement

there's a "quit" menu option you have to choose before you get to the custom menu.

Frank van Gestel

Why are there 2 displayserver on entries?
I looked over the "displayserver on" entries. the second one does shut displayserver down.
Since the installer doesn't replace /sbin/init, displayserver isn't started at bootup, so you must start it manually from the menu.
If i choose voladj off, it just goes back to the voladj on choice, im not sure it makes the change
You should hear the difference when playing some songs...

Frank van Gestel

kick ass stuff Frank. The installer works great!

When you release the full version i'll do some html templates, since that's about all the help i can offer that being something i'm good at. =]


|| loren.cox ||

I also don't have a 'quit' - menu option !?
So now, after uploading the ds2b1.mp3 via emplode, I run Empackager and this is what I see in the debug-window:

------------------------
q

Restored terminal settings

Remounting first music partition read-only

Remounting second music partition read-only

Player exited normally: 0

Switching to shell-player loop

Starting bash.

empeg:/empeg/bin# TMOUT=0

empeg:/empeg/bin# export ARCHIVE=`ls -lrt /drive0/fids/*0 /drive1/fids/*0 2>/dev
/null|grep 544539| sed -e '$!d' -e 's/.* //'`

empeg:/empeg/bin# if [ -n "$ARCHIVE" ][ -n "$ARCHIVE" ]; then

> tar xzfO $ARCHIVE empackager/install.sh | /bin/bash

> else

> echo "package not found"

> fi

package not found
------------------------------

What am I missing !?! It looks like the drives are not mounted read-write - shouldn't they ?

Weird, I had no problem installing 1.1... now everything is done by the Empackager, so I have no clue what the problem is...

Dr. Pupvogel
mk2 #080000169

the drives don't need to mounted read-write. you should check the size of the ds2b1.mp3. It should be 544539 bytes big. the shell script does an ls (list) of all installed FIDs. I think there are too much arguments to ls.
How many songs have you got on your empeg?
Shall change the ls command to :

ls -l /drive0 /drive1

Frank van Gestel

Ok, I managed to turn it on. It looks cool! When i run test 1 and hit the play icon, i get this stuff:

Empeg Debug
dsconn->request GET /ds-bin/sendserial?serialcmds=%231f0 HTTP/1.1
dsconn->auth (null)
var->name serialcmds
var->value %231f0

What does this mean?

Sean

the play icon sends "#[fid number]" to the serial port on the empeg. This will cause the empeg start playing the song/playlist
the checkmark-icon opens a playlist
the speaker-icon plays a song/playlist
the floppy icon causes the webbrowser the save the selected song

Frank van Gestel

the play icon sends "#[fid number]" to the serial port on the empeg. This will cause the empeg start playing the song/playlist
the checkmark-icon opens a playlist
the speaker-icon downloads a song/playlist and opens the associated application with it
the floppy icon causes the webbrowser the save the selected song

Frank van Gestel

here is a modified installer

Frank van Gestel

Edited by fvgestel on 02/10/01 03:44 PM.

I installed the beta yesterday and it works well, I like the new interface to browsing MP3's and such. I do have a couple questions though. I have a custom init script (/bin/init calls /bin/userinit) and I don't have (nor want) the voladj kernel. I also already have my menu system setup the way I want it. So I avoided using the installer so as not to mess up my existing setup. Can someone tell me what the installer does and if in the future I will be able to use the installer without changing any of my existing setup? I also don't have an /opt filesystem (the default location in the displayserver.conf file) is there a way during the install to choose this?

Also, I had heard there would be a more elegant backup solution in 2.0, is that ready for testing in this beta? I found that I could select individual files for download, but I saw talk of a new way of backing up an entire Empeg. Will that be coming?

Otherwise this is a very nice improvement on the original!

-Tony
MkII #554

I downloaded the beta. Before installing, one question:

I have 1.1 running. Should I uninstall or install over (Linux knowledge is weak). If uninstall is in order, can someone provide the dummies guide?

Thanks
Steve

I just reloaded the 1.03 developer image over what was already there. Then I installed 2.0. No problems

Sean

Sean,

I'll do that!

thanks for the fast response....

-Steve

It should be possible to run both 1.1 and 2.0b1 at the same time. 2.0b1 uses a configfile /etc/displayserver.conf where you can set the portnumber to use.
if you set it to 81, you can access the empeg through : http://[ip of empeg] for 1.1 and http://[ip of empeg]:81 for 2.0
The installer doesn't change the init script. the only files affected are /etc/profile, /empeg/var/config.ini, /etc/displayserver.conf and the /opt structure



Frank van Gestel

The installer itself doesn't do anything special on the empeg, not even mounting disks read/write. it starts a script called install.sh which is in the mp3/tgz file. This script does the following :
- mount relevant partitions
- create directory /opt or symlink it to /drive[01]/opt
- untar the install.tar file from the mp3 file
- backup /etc/profile
- write new /etc/profile
- write new /etc/displayserver.conf
- add the quit=1 line to /empeg/var/config.ini if it doesn't exist
- ask to install the kernel ( it is optional )
- install kernel if wanted
- reboot



Frank van Gestel

Frank,
Is there a known-bug list for displayserver? It seems to crash every time I select a playlist larger than about 12 members. A lot of messages go to STDERR when this happens. Would it help to show you these?
Sorry if this has been discussed; I just got a Mk2, and this is my first experience with ds.
Thanks,
Jason

_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."

- unzip the zip file
- use emplode to upload ds2b1.mp3 to the empeg - Done (Uploaded to Unattached Items)
- hook your empeg to a serial port on your pc - Done
- run the included program empackager.exe - Done
- select 'quit' int the empeg menu (Where is the Quit?)

Having trouble installing...Must be the lack of sleep over the past two weeks...

- unzip the zip file
- use emplode to upload ds2b1.mp3 to the empeg - Done (Uploaded to Unattached Items)
- hook your empeg to a serial port on your pc - Done
- run the included program empackager.exe - Done
- select 'quit' int the empeg menu (Where is the Quit?)

Having trouble installing...Must be the lack of sleep over the past two weeks...

It would help if you send me your exported CSV-file and info on which playlists cause problems. email

Frank van Gestel

I tested the initial installer with 12Gb disk. a new version of the installer, which I suppose is working with larger empegs is at http://empeg.dyndns.org/empeg/displayserver2.0b1/Empackager.zip
I haven't had any feedback though, so I don't know if this is causing the problem.

Frank van Gestel

If it helps... the first installer you released worked fine on my 42GB empeg. 12GB on the primary drive, 30GB on the slave.


|| loren.cox ||

You have to go to a shell prompt on the player, mount rw, and then per tony's directions -
- Add the "Quit" option to the empeg player's menu by
editing the config.ini file:

echo "[Menu]" >> config.ini
echo "Quit=1" >> config.ini

Sean

Greetings!

I have two requests for Displayserver 2.0. I have not had a chance to install the beta yet, but I hope to very soon. So, you might have a chance to say the famous words "it is in 2.0"...

1) When using the browser to download tracks, there are potentially illegal filename characters or HTML characters in the URL. This happens when the tags contain characters, like ?, ", # and /. These cause the HTML to be malformed, or to give an illegal filename in the Wintel world. You can save the link location, paste it in and edit it, but it would be nice if this was automatically done for you.

2) Is there a way to have the download URL contain information from the Track Number tag? I know it is part of the database. The reason is that, while the display on the browser is in tracklist order based on the playlist, saving the files locally forces an alphabetical sort. The default information for the fields appears to be artist - source - title. Can this be changed to artist - source - tracknumber - title?

Thanks! Just some thoughts. It might even be possible to do this manipulation in the templates for 2.0, but I have not had a chance to look yet.

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (96GB Smoke)

Your last statement is correct, the pages are generated in javascript, so you could choose how to display your data yourself :
urls looks like this :
http://empeg/ds-bin/getfid?output=js&file=test1.html&fid=xxx for displaying playlists/song info
http://empeg/ds-bin/getfid?output=raw&savefile=[filename]&fid=xxx for downloading playlists/songs
http://empeg/ds-bin/getfid?output=m3u&fid=xxx for generating m3u playlist
http://empeg/ds-bin/sendserial?serialcmds=%23xxx to let the empeg play a certain song/playlist

the getfid method with js output generates a javascript array, which is iterated in the html-templates and generates tables on the fly

Frank van Gestel

Cool! Thanks!!!

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (96GB Smoke)

It just occured to me that you could also suffer from javascript errors, due to illegal characters in song info.
Look at the source of the generated page. If the array on top contains all playlist info, then this could be the case.

Frank van Gestel

Also, I had heard there would be a more elegant backup solution in 2.0, is that ready for testing in this beta? I found that I could select individual files for download, but I saw talk of a new way of backing up an entire Empeg. Will that be coming?


I'm just testing the new empegbackup util. It doesn't need the CSV-file anymore; just give a destination directory and displayserver URL.
It's at 150Mb now. I've got 12Gb of free diskspace, so I should be able to store a complete backup. I let you know later.

Frank van Gestel

I just succesfully backup up my complete empeg (10.5 Gb). I wil test a restore tonight

Frank van Gestel

Hi Frank,
I'm still having trouble installing; but it looks different with the new installer:

----------------------------------------------
q

Remounting first music partition read-only

Remounting second music partition read-only

Player exited normally: 0

Switching to shell-player loop

Starting bash.

empeg:/empeg/bin# TMOUT=0

empeg:/empeg/bin# export ARCHIVE=`ls -lrt /drive0/fids/ /drive1/fids/ 2>/dev/nul
l|grep 544539| sed -e '$!d' -e 's/.* //'`
----------------------------------------------
(now it's sitting there for about a minute)
----------------------------------------------

empeg:/empeg/bin# if [ -n "$ARCHIVE" ][ -n "$ARCHIVE" ]; then

> tar xzfO $ARCHIVE empackager/install.sh | /bin/bash

> else

> echo "package not found"

> fi

tar (child): 305b0: Cannot open: No such file or directory

tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now

tar: Child returned status 2

tar: empackager/install.sh: Not found in archive

tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
----------------------------------------------
Could it be I have too many songs on it ? I think there are about 12000 on it right now.
The size of ds2b1.mp3 is correct, 544539 bytes.

Dr. Pupvogel
mk2 #080000169

I think I found a solution. ls /drive0/fids generates different output than ls /drive0/fids/*0
Will put a new installer up this evening....

Frank van Gestel

Cool, thanks !!

Dr. Pupvogel
mk2 #080000169

Sorry, I don't really get it. I must have skipped Tony's instructions.
I do the following:
- Upload the ds2b1.mp3 to the unattached items
- Attach mpeg to COM1
- Run Empackager
- I assume I have to power off and on the empeg after checking the DEBUG oprion on Empackager, because that's the only way I can find to interact with that. Am I correct?
- If I am, what happens is that I see the boot procedure of empeg on the screen as I woulkd see it in any terminal program (Hyperterminal, for example).
- At a certain point of the boot, I get
Press 'q' now to go into development mode. You Have Zero Seconds To Comply...
which does not allow me to enter the development mode. What should I do at this point?

Also, I already have Displayserver 1.1 running.

Help! :)


Taym
_________________________
MK II BLUE/RED 12GB #923

I didn't think Empackager allowed you to type anything in the debug window. I think it's just to see/copy the text for debug reasons. You shouldn't have to reboot the empeg yourself at all during the installation. Empackager should be started with the player already running on the empeg, as the first thing empeckager does is send "q" to the empeg, thus quitting the player.
HTH,
Jason

_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."

Oh. So, where is teh "quit". I know this has alreadty been asked, still I did not get where it is.

Taym
_________________________
MK II BLUE/RED 12GB #923

- connect serial cable
- power on empeg. Make sure player is running
- start empackager.
- click debug checkbox
- select serial port
- click start-button

empackager should send "q" to the empeg after reboot and start install-script.

If you want to run 1.1 and 2.0 at the same time, you should modify /etc/displayserver.conf and change the listenport to something else than 80

Frank van Gestel

Thank you Frank. Simply, the player was not running.
Now, though, I get this:


----------------------------

Remounting first music partition read-only
Remounting second music partition read-only

No secondary hard disk

Player exited normally: 0

Switching to shell-player loop

Starting bash.

empeg:/empeg/bin# TMOUT=0

empeg:/empeg/bin# export ARCHIVE=`ls -lrt /drive0/fids/ /drive1/fids/ 2>/dev/nul
l|grep 544539| sed -e '$!d' -e 's/.* //'`

empeg:/empeg/bin# if [ -n "$ARCHIVE" ][ -n "$ARCHIVE" ]; then

> tar xzfO $ARCHIVE empackager/install.sh | /bin/bash

> else

> echo "package not found"

> fi

tar (child): a130: Cannot open: No such file or directory

tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now

tar: Child returned status 2

tar: empackager/install.sh: Not found in archive

tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
--------------------------


Help!


Taym
_________________________
MK II BLUE/RED 12GB #923

The "quit" menu option does not appear unless the file CONFIG.INI has been edited on the player to add it.

Frank, you might want to consider having your installer program do this automatically.

Also, in case someone hasn't figured this out yet, you can't use displayserver (or any third-party stuff like it) unless the empeg has the DEVELOPER image installed on it. Just in case anyone was wondering why the serial commands weren't working on their consumer-installed player.

___________
Tony Fabris

FYI, this is from Frank earlier in this thread...

The installer itself doesn't do anything special on the empeg, not even mounting disks read/write. it starts a script called install.sh which is in the mp3/tgz file. This script does the following :
- mount relevant partitions
- create directory /opt or symlink it to /drive[01]/opt
- untar the install.tar file from the mp3 file
- backup /etc/profile
- write new /etc/profile
- write new /etc/displayserver.conf
- add the quit=1 line to /empeg/var/config.ini if it doesn't exist
- ask to install the kernel ( it is optional )
- install kernel if wanted
- reboot


Sounds like the installer already takes care of this.

-Tony
MkII #554

add the quit=1 line to /empeg/var/config.ini if it doesn't exist
Sounds like the installer already takes care of this.

Then why did somebody say they didnt get the "quit" option?

Possibilities:

- User was running Consumer build an installer didn't work at all?
- Bug in installer preventing it from working?
- quit=1 is added, but "[Menu]" section above it is not added?

___________
Tony Fabris

Frank, you might want to consider having your installer program do this automatically.

It already did. There is a problem with the detection of the uploaded file.


Also, in case someone hasn't figured this out yet, you can't use displayserver (or any third-party stuff like it) unless the empeg has the DEVELOPER image installed on it.

I though everyone reads readme's

Frank van Gestel

I definitely had the developer image and did not get the quit. After much time trying, I went with the option at the end of the readme, which worked great.

- User was running Consumer build an installer didn't work at all?
- Bug in installer preventing it from working?
- quit=1 is added, but "[Menu]" section above it is not added?

- people applying power after starting the installer

If you press the start-button, the player app is stopped and the shell is used to start the install-script
if you power on after pressing the start-button, the player doesn't get interrupted

Frank van Gestel

So, I finally got it installed and noticed a few issues:

1) Does not continue to run after power removed (1.1 Did)
2) When trying the Test Index 1, showed playlists, but when clicking on the play button, it returns an error. (I commented this option out of the HTML I modified, but can provide if needed)
3) When I first tried to run the Index 2, I clicked on a song and it returned an error. I replaced the raw with mp3 in the HTML and now it works.

All in all, nice work. I did some minor template modifications addressing number 3, and also changed the font color to a magenta (easier contrast to see), and changed all background colors to black. If anyone wants the html files, let me know and I can email them. Send an email to my email address.

-Steve

1) Does not continue to run after power removed (1.1 Did)

Correct; I didn't want to modify the init script, because of a lot of problems resulted from it. The way it is installed now doesn't affect the player app, only when it is started in the menu.


When trying the Test Index 1, showed playlists, but when clicking on the play button, it returns an error

If you looked at your empeg, you would have noticed that your empeg started playing the selected song/playlist. The errorpage is some debugging info.
icons:
checkmark : select playlist
floppy : save mp3
speaker : stream to pc and play through mediaplayer/winamp/etc
triangle : play playlist/song on empeg


3) When I first tried to run the Index 2, I clicked on a song and it returned an error. I replaced the raw with mp3 in the HTML and now it works.

test2.html was just an example for the first alpha version. Some things have changed and the links don't work anymore


Frank van Gestel

ds2b2 is downloadable here

- The installer was modified to handle some install problems
- The readme.txt was modified with extra installation steps
- backup/restore functionality ( client soming soon )
- added emptris to menu



Frank van Gestel

Hello Frank,

I have a question about that:

>--------
Correct; I didn't want to modify the init script, because of a lot of problems resulted from it. The way it is installed now doesn't affect the player app, only when it is started in the menu!
>----------

That means, If I connect via WLAN from my home office to my car I can't use the Displayserver 2.0? I start my Empeg remotely! Is this missing feature only during the beta? Or can I modify the init?

Sorry for this questions. But for demostrations it was beautifull to have the Displayserver running after booting.

bye


CrazyMelki

well then this could be even cooler!
First install 1.1, then 2.0b2 and use the applet from 1.1 to startup 2.0. I've added a dialog in 2.0b2 to specify the portnumber to use for 2.0.
1.1 : http://[empeg ip]
2.0 : http://[empeg]:[portnumber]

If you want to replace 1.1 woth 2.0, you can edit the init-script to do

/opt/bin/rc.displayserver start

instead of

cd /usr/local/displayserver

./displayserver

to clean you can remove 1.1 completely :

# rm -R /usr/local/displayserver

Frank van Gestel

Frank!

Thanks for the tip and effort!

Other question:
Can be there a problem If I have already installed picker and voladj to install the DS2 with the Empackager...I did really everything step by step from your readme! I moved the ds2b2.mp2 also from unattached items to a new playlist.

Here the debug info:

q



--- Running Picker... ---



The fourth option was chosen.

Vol-adj is on.



--- Picker Complete. ---



Press q now to terminate to a shell prompt.



Running Player...

Using non-standard cache size 168 (adjustment 12)

empeg-car 1.03.

Sorry for all this questions. But I wanna help you to make a good product!

bye

CrazyMelki

You could hit the start button after picker exits and before the player app starts, but the installer expects strings 'Starting bash.' or 'Switching to shell-player loop' to send the install-commands. You can also start a shell from hyperterm and install in the way described at the bottom of the readme. You could even close hyperterm after the first dialog-line has appeared and start empackager from there. You would only miss the welcome-dialog.


Frank van Gestel

I'm having problems installing b2. I installed b1 earlier (though not with the packager, but from command line) and have since reloaded dev image 1.03 back on to start over.

As per the instructions:
- unzip the zip file
- use emplode to upload ds2b2.mp3 to the empeg
Uploaded to "Unattached Items"

- hook your empeg to a serial port on your pc
- start the empeg. make sure the player is running
- run the included program empackager.exe
- push the start-button
- wait a few seconds
- answer the questions asked
Selected system partition for install location.
Answered "80" for port number (wasn't sure whether or not I could just leave this null)

Then..it seems to stop. I get the following lines in the debug window
/bin/bash: line 105: syntax error near unexpected token `['
/bin/bash: line 105: `if [ -n "${REPLY#1 }" ]'

I get the same thing when installing from command line. I guess that is to be expected.

--Chris Willenbrock
MK2 | 12GB | Queue Registration # 2 (really!)

I pressed the wrong buttons in vi... There's a new version available.

Frank van Gestel

BTW, both empackager.exe and ds2b2.mp3 have changed...

Frank van Gestel

everybody who has downloaded beta2 more than half an hour ago, should download it again; there was a slip of vi in the first one. both files must be used

Frank van Gestel

Yes..much better. Thanks!

--Chris Willenbrock
MK2 | 12GB | Queue Registration # 2 (really!)