Just got me one of them newfangled "Darkfield" mice by Logitech. Super impressive. Every surface I've tried it on, including a the side of a drinking glass, including the laptop's own LCD screen, tracks perfectly.

Flywheel scrolling is also awesome.

Very very impressed.

Agreed. That's a great mouse. I've always liked Logitech's stuff, too. I have the VX Nano notebook mouse with the fly wheel, and it's great for scanning long pages.

I'm hoping that my MX1000 doesn't die any time soon, though. I freaking love this mouse, and I've used it for at least four years now. I have very specific button mappings that help productivity. My problem with the newer Logitech mice is there are fewer buttons. The MX1000 has five programmable buttons, whereas it looks like that new "Darkfield" mouse essentially has three usable ones, plus that little button behind the scroll wheel. Or is that the button that switches the flywheel on and off?

Anyway, I'm considering ordering another MX1000 just in case mine dies

I'm still wondering why no one can make a usable BlueTooth mouse. I have an MX700 and MX900 which are essentially the same mouse except for the radio. The BT MX900 sucks big time.

I just bought a new MS mouse, which I promised myself I wouldn't do, but I'm treating it as disposable since I picked it up for only a few bucks from Monoprice. Haven't received it yet.

The VX Nano is the mouse I've been wanting for a long time. But I'm not going to pay the ludicrous price most retailers want for it. Truthfully, I haven't bothered to keep an eye on any deals over the past year, so I might have missed some opportunity to get it at a reasonable price.

I'm pretty sure Logitech still has the worst mouse software in the industry though, so that's something that I'd never let touch my machine.

The button behind the flywheel is the new Middle Mouse Button. Clicking down on the flywheel now toggles it between flywheel mode and notched rotation mode.

Grr. Your going to make me type out one of my Logitech rants...

So yes, I love their products. And I'm thinking about one of the newer Darkfield ones, probably the newer Performance MX. They have me hooked on the flywheel to the point I made sure to buy one for work as well.

The rant comes in because they continue to refuse to make their desktop mice in Bluetooth varieties, except when bundled with a keyboard. I don't really care about the dongle on my desktop, but I want to take a full sized mouse with me when I travel with the laptop. And with only one USB port on my current system, it gets frustrating to have to fill it with a mouse, when Bluetooth exists for this reason.

As for the flywheel toggle, it's different on their different mice. My Revolution MX (pre Darkfield model) uses the click on the wheel to toggle. My friends Peformance MX (same thing with Darkfield) moved the toggle to that button below the scroll wheel.

I, too, went to a lot of trouble to make sure I got a bluetooth mouse because I didn't want a dongle.

And after using one for a while, I, like Bruno, have decided that bluetooth sucks for mice. Reasons:

- When saturating the wireless connection with a large file download, the bluetooth mouse performance drops to an awful, choppy mess.

- When first activating the mouse or when first waking up the laptop from sleep or hibernate, it takes far too long for the thing to make a connection.

- Sometimes after waking up, bluetooth doesn't connect at all (this might be the laptop's fault).

The dongle mouse has none of those problems: No dropout during large file downloads, instant-on, and no trouble with connections.

The new flywheel scrollwheel is a step backwards IMO.

My MX Revolution can be software set to be freewheel or clicky. The default is to be clicky until it reaches a certain speed and then it will switch over into freewheel mode. Once it stops then its back to clicky.

I actually like this feature because it is clicky for precise scrolling but if I want to scroll through something fast I can just spin the wheel and go into freewheel mode.

I recently ordered some spare MX Revolutions because they've discontinued this model and replaced it with the Performance Mouse MX which has the scrollwheel that Tony mentions and its missing the side wheel/button.

Argh. I've already made my complaints about bluetooth, so yeah, I hate it. Who cares if there's a dongle? Besides, I built my computer, so if I wanted bluetooth I would have to have a dongle anyway.

I guess it's one of those experiential things. I know that the last time I complained about bluetooth, Trevor called me crazy because he's never had problems with it, but a couple other people agreed that they've had problems with it.

Personally, I've never had much luck with the technology, and I, for one, have always been fortunate with RF keyboards and mice. I have never had an RF mouse flake out on me or drop its connection.

Also, for some reason, after the MX1000 it seemed to be a long while before Logitech made another rechargeable mouse. That bugged me. I can't imagine buying a mouse that takes batteries these days, given how fast you go through them. And I prefer the way the MX1000 recharges to the new mice from Logitech. When my mouse runs low on power, I just pick it up and drop it in its cradle.

You said that Bluetooth was a failure on the whole because you've had issues with it. You're completely writing it off because of that and claiming that it is a failure and then expecting everybody to agree with you. The couple people who agree with you will have to argue against the millions that successfully use Bluetooth every day.


My MX Revolution uses a regular RF link and I've had it act oddly occasionally. The AP for my desk is actually near where I use my mouse so if I'm transferring a large file, the mouse cursor will suddenly get very jerky. I've learnt to live with it but I'm not too disappointed or annoyed about it since I know it is close to the AP.


The downside of that is the built in battery is difficult to replace. I assume that the MX1000 uses a similar battery to the one inside my MX Revolution. It is a small LiIon battery pack which is replaceable but you need to dismantle the mouse to do so. This means peeling off some of the plastic glide feet off the bottom of the mouse since they didn't intend for you to replace it yourself.

The new mice however take a rechargeable AA battery and there is a hatch on the bottom to replace it.


The lack of a cradle in the newer wireless Logitech mice is actually a feature they list. The more fiddly charging method is offset against the alledgely vastly improved battery life of the new mice. I've not actually tried the charging cable on the new mice as the demo unit at the store didn't have it out.

If it wasn't for the changed scrollwheel and the missing buttons on the side, I'd be quite happy with the new features and changes in the Performance MX.

I've seen some issues with Bluetooth, but not enough to make me dislike it like Tony and Matt. It's all about how well (or poorly) the desktop/laptop in question supports it. For me, it's well worth having over losing my 1 USB port to a dongle (and having to constantly plug it in when getting the laptop out). In any case, I'd like to have the choice to buy their mice in Bluetooth varieties without a bundled keyboard.

As for charging, I have to say I prefer the newer method as well. I've forgotten to drop the mouse at work in the charger before, so I have to fallback to a wired mouse while waiting on it to charge a bit. With the newer Performance MX, I could just cable it to the computer using the MicroUSB cable it comes with, and keep working.

Okay, okay, cool down. Perhaps you're right. I think that comes from the impression that I get that everyone is feeling the exact same way about RF. I never hear anything but negative things about the RF when compared to bluetooth. So yeah, I feel there's nothing wrong with bringing my own experience into it. And it's not just my own experience, I'm also thinking of everyone else I know of that has used bluetooth, and they all have nothing but annoyances with it. I did concede in my post that this could be an experiential thing, you know, so I've already conceded that yes, many people use bluetooth without problems every day. But don't get so PO'd at me just because I don't know anyone personally who has used it without issue.


Yes, the battery is not replaceable, but I've never considered that to be a problem. Like I said, I've used this mouse for a few years now and I don't have any battery issues.


I'm sure that's true, but then it becomes an issue of how much this matters to you. To be honest, the charge on my MX1000 lasts so long I can't even remember how often I have to recharge it. Maybe every one to two weeks? Whatever it is, I've never once wished that it was longer. If anything, I've always been amazed at how long it lasts. And when it does run low, like I said, it's so easy to just literally drop it into its cradle. I don't ever think about battery charge.


Please don't mistake me, I love my MX1000, but I am not at all suggesting that the new Logitech mice are bad. I'm not a certain other poster here I'm actually a bit of a Logitech fanboy, and I think their new mice are fantastic. If it sounded like I took a negative tone towards the new mice, I'll let you in on a little secret: it's probably because I'm jealous!

There's so much I like about the new mice, but I've become so ingrained with the control method I've set up with my MX1000 that it would take months, perhaps a year, to get used to a new mouse with different/fewer buttons. Combine that with my slight preference for my current charging method, and all I'm really saying is that there's not enough to get me to upgrade when I have a mouse I'm perfectly happy with.

The MS mouse I just bought does proprietary RF using a dongle *and* Bluetooth. You just flip a switch to your preference. It can also charge its battery using a magnetic connector that can be plugged into a USB port.

Bluetooth has sucked for mouse use in my experiences with Logitech products under both Windows and Mac OS. For the most part Bluetooth has simply become a synonym for "wireless mobile headset." The technology promised a lot more while it was being developed and previewed.

I don't have any issues with the Apple BT keyboard I've been using though. Seems quite adequate for that.

I've had reception issues with Logitech's proprietary RF at times, even when the charging base station was within a meter of the mouse. Same with the MS mice - and in fact with the MS stuff I had a hell of a time using two of their products (different models) at the same time. I had to resync one product, and if I was using a Logitech wireless keyboard, then it was a complete show-stopper. Seems the mice could only pick two specific to cycle between, each conflicting with something else.

My apologies, I just wanted to address this quickly. I agree that it's not the best, but I still find it to be pretty good, though I have no experience with the Mac software. I'm able to fully customize my mouse and its buttons, and there's not really anything additional I'd need to do that the software is incapable of doing.

Additionally, when I traded in my Logitech RF wireless keyboard for my Dell bluetooth wireless keyboard (it was free, and was technically a better keyboard, but now I regret switching every day), my Logitech software saw the Dell and brought it into the software just like any of their own products! It added a keyboard tab, and I even have a little picture of my keyboard, and selecting different buttons to customize brings up little images of those buttons. I'm amazed by how much effort they put into supporting someone else's product in their own software.

So yeah, I used to complain about Logitech's software, but SetPoint has seemed pretty darn good to me. And compared to the days when Logitech shipped different software for each product, it's nice to be able to download one package that will support any Logitech device.

You made a blanket statement that said that Bluetooth was a complete failure along with further posts that expressed skepticism when I said that I didn't have any problems with it and knew of others who similarly had no problems. I never said that I didn't know of people that didn't like Bluetooth and had problems as well. Completely writing off Bluetooth as a failure is too extreme of a statement :P


Yeah. I've never personally had any problems with it but there are quite a few reports online about some Logitech mouse battery issue with the models we've got. It is a Lithium Ion battery anyway and will eventually degrade enough through repeated cycles that the battery will need to be replaced.

If you're okay with peeling off the glide feet and poking a hole in the label, it is apparently fairly easy to replace the battery if you can find another of a similar size/shape with the correct connector.


Oh I'm not saying their new mice are bad either. I'm just disappointed that they changed the scrollwheel from what I am used to and like to the newer system. The rest of the mouse features are things I'd like and do think they're an improvement.

I either use Microsoft or Logitech mice and generally recommend to friends/family that they use them as well. The build quality is normally good and they're not going to fall apart after a few months unlike some of the cheap brands out there.


Pretty much the same with me. I like the current model enough that I bought 2 spares. The new features would be nice to have but the current model is better suited to my needs.

What Dignan said. SetPoint works fine for me and I've not had any problems with it in years.


If it is the same Dell Bluetooth keyboard that I've used before then it is actually a rebranded Logitech so it isn't too surprising that it is supported in the software. Other manufacturers sometimes have deals in place that intentionally make the generic driver package refuse to work for rebranded hardware so it is nice that they still allow it. nVidia and laptop graphics chips are an example of this.

Logitech software has always been buggy for everyone I've known for both Windows and especially Mac OS. In Mac OS it interferes with other software on the system and you'll often see reports about it. It also used to be a memory and CPU hog for something that should be of relatively minimal impact.

For Mac OS I only use one mouse program, which works with all mice. It's the best program of its kind, Steer Mouse. Everything else has had problems with either system incompatibilities or mouse incompatibilities.



Even though I just bought another MS mouse, my position is that MS retail mice physically fall apart faster than any other brand I've seen. Their old mice, though shite because of the ball, lasted much longer. Logitech Mice, at least up until the MX900 lasted much MUCH longer. MS hasn't used quality materials in their products. Poor plastics, rubbers and polymer, as well as really bad and reactive paints and adhesives.

I've kept a portable Laser Mouse 6000 around just so I can take some photos. It deteriorated while in use, but most of its deterioration came while not being used. It was just sitting in a drawer and apparently, like perishable food, it just started decaying.

Apple outclasses both MS and Logitech in mouse hardware quality and have for at least 10 years. The problem is that generally speaking, Apple mice have had terrible features and ergonomics. Frankly, the only Apple mouse I've actually been interested in since their 1990's single-button tank, is the new Magic Mouse. I still have to test one to see if it'll work for me though.

I read that and immediately had to go check it out.

For any other Unix users out there, the new, separate, middle mouse button seems to be about the size of a grain of rice.

So nevermind.

FWIW, I'm now using a Contour Mouse, solely because it has three damned buttons. The scrollwheel on the side is actually pretty nice, too. I do not have any (or very few) carpal tunnel problems. If you're in the same boat, ignore their sizing chart and get the smallest one. It's still a little too big, but the others are just freaking massive.

Yeah, that's one of the things I don't like. The size, and especially the location, make that button essentially useless for me. For those of you with this mouse, is it at all possible to actually use it? It seems like you'd have to move your entire hand to hit it.

Again, on my MX1000, it has buttons directly above and below the scrollwheel. I have them remapped for functions other than they were originally intended. The top one is my middle button, Bitt. I used it constantly to open links in new tabs.

I know nobody is interested, but here are the button mappings on my mouse, which I could not use my computer without:

Thumb buttons on the side:
Ctrl+W
Ctrl+Tab
Double click

Buttons above and below the scroll:
Middle mouse button
J

That last one is the only one I could probably live without. It's there purely for my Google Reader obsession All the rest, aside from the double click, of course, are for web surfing.

I'm probably completely off-base here, but if my mouse is BlueTooth, it works just fine. However, I don't know what technology it is. It is a Microsoft "Model 1008 wireless optical mouse", it has a receiver that feeds mouse movements into a USB port and keyboard* data to a PS2 port. The mouse fits my hand perfectly, and it's just amazing, the cursor on the screen moves in synchronization with the mouse on my desk when I move it. It has a left button that clicks and lets me select things, it has a right button that clicks and selects other things, and a scroll wheel that scrolls the screen up and down when I move it. I can even click the scroll wheel if I want, but haven't found any compelling reasons to do so. It runs on a pair of AA batteries and the first set lasted the better part of a year. (The receiver is powered by the USB port)

So, the question is... what more could I want from a mouse?

*I don't use the keyboard that comes with this setup, I will never give up my Gateway Anykey programmable keyboard -- see the attached list of macros I have stored and use pretty much daily!)

tanstaafl.

I don't have a problem with the new middle mouse button that sits slightly below the scroll wheel. I don't think it's "too small", and I don't have to re-adjust my hand to use it any more than I have to re-adjust my hand to use the scroll wheel.

However, I could understand that when using software with frequent middle-mouse usage (very few of my day to day operations use middle mouse) it might be less convenient than a true three-button mouse.

On the other hand, having the scroll wheel's "click" be the middle mouse button is much worse for all the mice I've tried. The amount of force required to click down on the scroll wheel is always too much, and you end up rolling the wheel when you intended to just click. An example would be, if you have configured your browser so that middle-click is "open in new tab": If I tried to do that with most mice, I'd be scrolling off the desired link before the middle click even registered. So having the middle mouse button be a separate button is an improvement, in my opinion, even if the button's location is a hair awkward.

The ideal situation would be to have a proper three button mouse, with a full size middle button, and the scroll wheel placed slighly lower and inset into the middle button.

That's not bluetooth.

Bluetooth products contain this logo and, quite specifically, do not require a receiver in the USB port.

That's the point of bluetooth: The receiver is a universal receiver already built into the laptop, and then you can have multiple cordless bluetooth devices connected at the same time (mic-headsets, stereo headphones, mice, cell phones for WWAN internet connections, etc.) and none of them need a receiver dongle to be plugged in.

The advantage is, you take your laptop to a meeting, pull the mouse out of the laptop bag, and you're done; no fishing for a dongle and plugging it in.

The non-bluetooth Logitech mouse I just got uses a very very small receiver dongle that is supposedly designed to be left plugged into the laptop at all times. Even with this design, it juts out from the laptop more than I'd like it to, and I fear that it will still strain the USB port as I yank the laptop in and out of its carrying case. Only time will tell if it eventually damages the port.

It isn't Bluetooth. It is 27MHz RF link so won't get interference from WiFi or Bluetooth devices nearby.

That's essentially what I have on my mouse. I think it's pretty clear that the middle mouse button is the least used, so I don't want a mouse that gives equal space to that button. That's why I have the middle mouse button mapped to the button you can kind of see in this picture on the far side of the scroll wheel.

I don't have anything mapped to the scroll wheel click, specifically because of the reasons you mention.

I looked at a photo. It still seems far too small, like the size of a lentil.

I'm surprised they don't sell the Contour Mouse by volume. At least they include a free cord with every mouse. It probably helps to swing it around when you're attacking someone with it.

With the new Logitech mice, can't you just give up one of the side buttons and use that as your third button? Seems like problem solved to me. I haven't used a mouse for any significant amount of time in probably two or more years. The only thing I'm really interested in one for is design work, since web browsing and other similar tasks are best done with the keyboard and trackpad for me.

Though I'll end up using a mouse for all functions while my notebook is parked on a stand as a secondary display. In that case I do appreciate some extra buttons, but I don't really need the "third" one to be between the left and right. I'd probably never use the mini button on the new Logitech mice, just like I completely ignored the useless mini buttons on the MX700 and MX900. Anything behind the scroll wheel is an ergonomic nightmare I'm afraid - especially when so far back as on the two models I just mentioned. And the button in front of the wheel? They may as well have put it on the back or bottom of the mouse, that's how useful it is.

Of course the most dumb-ass thing in their BlueTooth MX900 is not including an on/off switch. If they expected people only to use it with their base, they shouldn't have bothered making it BlueTooth at all. It's exactly the same product as the MX700 with the exception of the radio.

Why, opening links in new browser tabs, of course!
Tabbed browsing FTW!!

Say I am looking at a list of things- could be the results of a search on google, amazon, a forum, ... whatever.
I keep the list loaded in one tab and open all the links I'm interested in by clicking on them with the scroll wheel.
That way I never have to 'back up' and reload my list and I have all items next to each other for easy comparison.
As I finish with each tab I close it, finally getting down to my starting list again. It's easy to edit my search, too, if I'm not getting the results I want.

Under MSWindows, maybe, but under X-Windows (that is, Unix), it's very important. The left (and often the right) button is used to select text and the middle button is used to paste. There are various ways around this, but the default is to press on the scroll wheel, which, as Tony points out, is incredibly fiddly.

Don't you guys use the keyboard when web browsing? I always just find it easier to hold down a key, like the command key, when clicking to open things in a new tab. I've also got the browser set to open new tabs instead of new windows when sites want to roll that way.

Yeah, I could. There's no requirement that Button 3 be any particular location, but I personally find it awkward. The way I tend to use my mouse is to toss it about to focus windows and when I press a button, it frequently doesn't need any mouse movement, so I just press it without grabbing the mouse, which would be very hard to do with a side-mounted button, as I'd just end up moving the mouse.

How is holding a key while pressing a button easier or more efficient than pressing a single button on its own?

I'm not telling you how to operate your browser (unless I'm looking over your shoulder and you're extremely slow), but implying that your method is somehow better is … weird.

It's easier and more efficient when your mouse doesn't have a third button. Isn't that what we're talking about? Mice that don't have the ideal third button (or one at all)?

Trying to press down a scroll wheel as a third button seems to always be an exercise in frustration as has been mentioned. As I'm still moving the mouse cursor around, I'm already moving my left hand to the key, so that by the time I click, it's all a single action.

I'm also fond of using the key modifier method when using a trackpad that doesn't have three dedicated buttons. It's easier/faster than having a special gesture or region because I can move both hands, each to an easy target, faster than one hand to a specific point on the pad.

LMAO
When I sit down at a Mac I am baffled how anyone can use the things.
Total frustration.

But it's all about familiarity, so you keep your whacky keyboard glyphs and neutered mouse and I'll stick to Windows.

(In fairness, I don't know where to start when faced with a Linux desktop, but at least I know my way around the interface hardware.)

I'm not talking about any particular brand of computer nor OS. I do the same thing on a Windows machine if the mouse doesn't have a third button.

But to bring up current Mac portables, the current iteration of the track-pad is infinitely more usable than anything found on an Acer, Sony, Dell, etc... Both for cursor movement as well as button presses. But looking at it, it appears to have no buttons at all.

Wait... Is tabbed browsing even supported in Windows?

I've never owned a single-button mouse by the way. Every mouse I've ever used in Mac OS has always had multiple buttons and a scroll wheel - and all the buttons and wheel have always been supported.

Matt, you may want to look into the older Revolution MX mouse if you want an upgrade from your MX1000. While it doesn't have the Darkfield tracking, it does present you with more buttons to map then the newer Performance MX.

On the top, you only have the tiny button below the scroll wheel, along with the normal left and right click. However the scroll wheel does tilt to the left and right, mappable to non scrolling functions if you want.

Then on the thumb side, you get two normal buttons, and a fixed scroll wheel like thing. It doesn't actually do continuous scrolling, instead it acts as 3 more buttons. forward, back, and then click in for the third.

The Revolution MX still has a charger base station too if you don't like the corded charger method. (irritatingly different then the MX1000 one by just enough to not charge both devices).


Indeed it is. I'll take an Apple touchpad above any other now, due to the large area, and scrolling/clicking gestures. Screw having a dedicated scrolling area, I want the entire pad to allow that function. And the weird keyboard glyphs are actually really nice when you get used to them. I find I use the keyboard way more for functions on my Mac, since it's much more consistent. Terminal window, or Safari, it's the same key combo to cut and paste. None of this "Well, here Ctrl-C copies, but here it sends an interrupt" nonsense.

Yeah, I guess, but it's not like opening links in new tabs is the only use for Button3. It's handy, but it's not my primary concern.

Are you sure you're looking at the right part? It's the part at the top of the picture, above the scroll wheel, not in the middle of the mouse. That's not a button. It's definitely smaller than a mouse button, but certainly big enough. I like it because my middle finger usually rests on the scroll wheel anyway, and all I have to do to press it is to sort of push forward with finger.


You know, I keep forgetting I can change that on the MX1000 too. I really should do that, as I've found horizontal scrolling to be pretty much useless. Perhaps I just need to up the scroll speed, but I'm sure I can find better uses for those two directions. Probably better Google Reader control


Anyway, I apologize for helping to get this discussion onto the finer-grained issues of mouse control

That have an up and down icon silkscreened onto them? Yeah. Too small. The middle mouse button is far more important to me than the wheel.

Following up on this darkfield mouse (Logitech Anywhere MX):

It's been great for a long time, and I used it all day every day at work, both at my desk and in meetings, and its first set of batteries were still going strong as of a week ago. So, battery life is great on these things.

Gotten so used to the "Freewheel" scroll wheel that I hate to use anything else.

But its wireless dongle just crapped out on me. I was getting intermittent "USB Device Not Recognized" errors for a while, and they got more and more frequent until it just stopped working altogether. (On the internet, it says that powering off the system and removing the battery will clear those errors, but that's not the case here. This is a genuine hardware failure of the dongle, not a failure of the system's USB chipset. Confirmed this by trying the dongle on several other systems.)

On the good side, Logitech is being very nice about the return process so far. My first email to them received an immediate response, and the tech who answered the email, instead of just giving a boilerplate "reinstall the drivers" response, instead said, "yup, it could be defective. Please fill out the warranty information below..."

Wow, according to an email I just received, they're mailing me a replacement unit already. Without me needing to ship back the original first.

Impressive customer service.

Just following up. Got the replacement in a fairly short time after the support emails. They never asked for the faulty one back. Now I've got two working darkfield mice, and one working USB receiver dongle.

New mouse working great.

Still on the first set of batteries (transferred from the old mouse to the new one).