Do either of you guys need an IR receiver for those systems?

Nope. Built in. Though I probably need to modify the receiver "window".

Thanks Bruno, but I don't think I'd use it. I'll probably pick up a PS3 Sixaxis gamepad and use that with QTSixA. Should work okay and it'd be fun to play some PSX games in emulation with it too.

Talking about controllers, ones that seem interesting after a few minutes of searching are the Logitech diNovo Mini, Lenovo N5901, and the Boxee Box Remote amongst a sea of other cheap little keyboards.

The Logitech one is pretty nice, backlit, Bluetooth but kinda expensive. The Lenovo and Boxee remotes use 2.4GHz dongles, shared with the Playstation Bluetooth, Wifi G, DECT Phones all in the same room so not ideal.

Anyone have any tips for a small inexpensive neat and usable bluetooth keyboard with a trackpad/trackball? I'm leaning towards using the Lenovo for messing around with the HTPC and the Sixaxis for watching stuff and playing.

Logitech makes a nice lightweight (nearly fullsize) combo "Cordless Mediaboard for PS/2" with touchpad. Works fine with PCs as well as the PS/2.

I have the non-bluetooth version (link) here, two of them, and it's fantastic -- works with the BIOS Setup and everything else, because it behaves exactly as a (wireless) USB HID.

The bluetooth version (link) is identical (but black), except for the bluetooth part. Not so sure about BIOS Setup with anything bluetooth.

Cheers

Currently there's only one half-decent product I know about, but I can't recommend it from personal experience. It's a Chinese ODM product that's being sold under many names, including "Rii" - you can look it up on Amazon.

Someone in the forum may be working on a better product already though.

Except that he was looking at "the Logitech diNovo Mini, Lenovo N5901, and the Boxee Box Remote amongst a sea of other cheap little keyboards." That Logitech is nothing like those and far bigger. Your household might be different, but over here a full-sized keyboard with trackpad simply wouldn't fly I also just don't want it myself. It seems like a bad form factor for a lean-back experience. The only reason for a full keyboard is if you plan on doing a LOT of typing, and that seems unpleasant on a home theater TV anyway. But hey, it's great if it works for you.

I can speak to at least two of those small keyboards, though:

N5901 - I bought one of these in an online sale Lenovo was running where it was something like half-off. I wouldn't recommend one. The plastic feels really cheap (the trackball especially), the keyboard is not at all fun to type on, and the keys all sort of blend together with no separation between them. It's really bad - avoid it.

Boxee remote - I own a Boxee, so naturally I'm a bit partial to the remote, but that doesn't mean it's without its problems. While I don't find myself pressing the letter keys when using the front of the remote, I do often accidentally click the d-pad when typing. The front of the remote also has a bit too few buttons for my taste. The last problem I'll talk about in the next paragraph. All that said, the remote works perfectly, and it's nice to not need line of sight.

Dinovo Mini - This is the one I can't speak to from having used it, but when I was looking at putting together an HTPC, this was my number one choice. The only reason I haven't picked one up is that it's the most expensive of the mini keyboard options that I've looked at. IMO it's the perfect form factor for an HTPC remote/keyboard, with a great set of controls. But the primary reason I'd recommend it without even having used it is the back-lit keyboard. After using the Boxee remote for several months now, this is its biggest problem. I often use the remote when the lights are dimmed, and unless they're very bright it's impossible to read the keys.

So there's my opinion, whatever it's worth. The only negative I'd have for the Dinovo (aside from the very high price), is that it's bluetooth, and I hate bluetooth (but we've gone over that before, and I seem to be far outnumbered in that opinion ).

Good luck!

Okay, I took "keyboard" literally there. If you folks want a remote-control with a quert[yz] pad, then that's something different.

cheers

I have a Rii and it's pretty nice, for what it is. The trackpad works well, and it seems well built. It's exactly the wrong size for efficient typing, though. It's too small to type normally (not to mention the fact that its keys are laid out in a grid instead of offset rows), and it's too big for thumb typing. But it's about the same size as an average remote control.

I bought mine from "Brando". They have a lot of keyboards.

That's what I took away from the product images online as well.

Oh, and in addition to what Matt said about the Boxee remote, its build quality is sub-par. Super flexible and fragile with really poor tactile response on the keyboard side and a symmetrical top side that you'll find yourself picking up upside down a lot. Not recommended as a purchase. I mostly use IR for my Boxee Box and only pick up the stock remote when I need to type something into it.

I think for most setup and real messing around with the HTPC, I would probably run a remote X session to my laptop, so a full sized keyboard just isn't needed. For those installation times when you do need to plug something in, the USB keyboard that comes with the Acer is small and neat, and it'd work just fine.

So, back to the small keyboard for day-to-day launching apps with gnome-do, typing search queries into Boxee and whatnot. The Rii looks cool, I did see it on my quick search, its definitely on my shortlist.

Its a shame that the Boxee remote isn't backlit, and yeah Matt I too think it would be better with just a few more buttons. I blame the Apple influence. Wish it had an accelerometer chip in there so it knows what way up the remote is and turn off the buttons on the bottom, that would be a neat feature. I think the lack of touchpad/trackball on there rules it out for me from a HTPC perspective rather than something that is a pure Boxee Box.

I've still got some time before the Acer ends up under a TV so I can think about it a bit. The diNovo is twice the price of the Rii (a third of the price of the Acer Revo!)... I think once its actually under a TV and I figure out how much I use it, I'll also figure out whether its worth it.

At first I thought you meant PS/2, but it seems you meant PS2 or PS3. Keyboards (including the smaller pads) are worth a look from the gaming side. This PS3 one works as both a keyboard and mouse over Bluetooth, though paring is a little odd and may need special drivers. Mouse wise, the chat pad has a toggle between keyboard and mouse. When mouse mode is activated, the entire keyboard surface turns into a touchpad for mousing. It's not the most precise experience but could work for a media system.


The Logitech Bluetooth keyboards and mice I've seen/used in the past come with their own USB Bluetooth dongle. If the keyboard and mouse is paired to it, it works for BIOS setup and OS setup. It does this by handling all the Bluetooth side inside the dongle, then telling the machine a generic USB keyboard and mouse is attached. Later on when the OS is fully booted and loads bluetooth drivers, control is handed over from the dongle to the drivers. Some integrated Bluetooth controllers will do the same, including the ones Apple uses in their computers.

Oh wow cool I hadn't considered those things, thanks Tom. I'm going to look into that chatpad thing more at some point, it looks really interesting!

lol at "sleek and elegant design" in the description

Wow, I spent way too long looking at this stuff right now. Okay, well the PS3 Chatpad looks kinda ugly, but the Xbox 360 Chatpad looks really kinda awesome.

Backlit keys, really nice looking and definitely something that I'd go for if there was hope of getting it working. The wireless Xbox 360 Controller requires the USB Wireless Gaming Receiver to connect to a PC, and this should all work okay in Linux... but there is no chatpad support. After pages and pages of people trying, there is an Alpha Driver available for Windows (supposed to be open source too), but it has the disclaimer that it is for Wired controllers only, and somehow the protocol for the wireless ones is significantly different. Oh well, I think it is a dead end for now at least.

Interesting, Tom. This isn't something I've seen before. My wife's previous desktop set, Microsoft's bluetooth keyboard and mouse, were unable to work in the BIOS. It's good to know that Logitech's stuff does. I can't remember if my old Dell keyboard (basically Logitech) keyboard worked in the BIOS...

Frankly, I wish these bluetooth products would simply work all inside the dongle. Installing a bluetooth stack in Windows is a nightmare, and always breaks for me. I'll stick with RF, thank you



I'll agree on the build quality and partially on the symmetrical issue. There's a definite, raised Boxee logo on one end of the remote, so as long as I make certain to orient yourself using that every time you pick the remote up, I never have a problem.

When it comes down to it, the Boxee remote is sufficient for me. It works for what I need it for. I simply DO NOT want to type a lot when I'm at my home theater, so I only need the most rudimentary keyboard. For me, as long as I can avoid using the on-screen keyboard with a d-pad (I hate that), I'm happy.

I just thought of another possible option, but I don't know if it would even work: the Tivo Slide. I just did about 3 minutes of searching, and it looks like it might be possible to use this thing with an HTPC, but don't quote me on that, and I don't know what OSs might support it. What I do know is that this thing is now my favorite remote of all time. It's the perfect compact size (about 2/3 the size of the "glo-remote"), and has a great feel to it. Every key has a nice, soft, equal backlight. Best of all, it's a Tivo remote, and I maintain that I've never used a better remote. I even don't mind that it's bluetooth. The range has problems, and I had to add a second USB extension cable to the one that came with it in order to get it to the VERY front of my TV stand, but once I did it's worked seamlessly.

Engadget: Motorola NYXboard surfaces from the dead, XBMC reclaims it.

POS. Everything on it seems like an afterthought. And some things like no thought at all.

Yeah...I'd have to hold one in my hand. I think it's lacking a number of useful buttons for every day operation. I also disagree with the writer that the Harmony remotes would compete with this. They seem like different animals to me.

They did seem to give thought to some issues, though. I like that it turns off the side that's facing down. My first thought when I saw this was that if I accidentally hit the small number of buttons on the other side of my Boxee remote, I'd hit all kinds of keys on this one. I do wonder what kind of angle it would work on, though. I tend to type on my Boxee remote while reclining, making the remote practically vertical.

I can't tell if the buttons are backlit. I don't think I could get another remote with out a backlight.

That's a bit premature as nobody knows what it actually looks like:

"we don't have any real pictures of the unit quite yet."

I suppose if it were redesigned 100%, so it looked and functioned nothing like what has been shown and announced, then it might merit re-evaluation.

My comments are based of course on the press coverage and what the renders look like. Everything leads us to believe what was shown is what's being produced.

To me, it might as well have been designed by Zenith back in the 1970's. Before anyone knew anything about the kinds of devices we'd be controlling today. It doesn't seem like they've taken any queues or learned anything from any other products that have come before it.

Anyway, just don't buy it because I'm working on something and you should all help to promote my product in the future.

If yours turns out to be anything like the Boxee remote, except backlit, then things could get very interesting.

Nothing like the Boxee remote, but that's a good thing. BTW, after having used the Boxee remote for a few months, I can tell you that it only looks good on screen in photo layouts. It sucks to use the top side almost as bad as it sucks to use the keyboard (and that's pretty bad).

I'm still in relatively early stages, having had a bit of a setback because a particular manufacturer I was in talks with to produce a few other projects, turns out can't handle this particular design. So now I'm in the process of reaching out to other contract manufacturers and parts suppliers (to confirm whether a few ideas are viable).

BTW, if anyone has any tips/recommendations or contract manufacturers they can recommend I contact, send me a PM. I'm concentrating on China/Taiwan and Korea at the moment.

I'd imagine Hugo would know of a couple, but they're likely staying pretty busy these days.

Well, I would hazard a guess that Foxconn would be far too large a partner for my company to work with. I don't think I'm going to be doing volume measured in millions. One can dream though, so maybe one day.

I'm in a bit of a quandary right now because of this, as I'd prefer to deal with one manufacturer rather than have the one I'm in contact with now start on some parts and then have to go to someone else for the other product. Especially since that product and another simpler product would share some molds.

Especially since it would also mean splitting my limited capital instead of using it for a better position/favor with one company. I'm contemplating going the Kickstarter route for one or more products, but I still have a lot to consider about that. If nothing else, it seems like a decent way to potentially get some publicity, which is what I think some other projects have been using it for.

Well no worries. Regardless of who in that region you end up going with, the knock-offs will be on DX.com for $10 (shipping included!) within a few weeks of it.

Cheers

Any idea which manufacturing/prototype company(s) Intrigue Technologies worked with in the early days of the Harmony Remote?

You might be able to connect with someone from Intrigue since they are 'local' to you.

I did have a chance to talk to someone from there back in 2005, but unfortunately I didn't keep in touch. It'd be kind of sneaky to probe for that kind of info though, wouldn't it?

The early Harmony stuff was pretty basic in construction and I'm sure the couple of companies I've dealt with over the past couple of years could both pull something like that off. I'd probably need to go to the same type of place that Logitech has producing their stuff now. Not necessarily their remotes though.

So true, on the same note it must be impossible to purchase a genuine jlink (jtag/swd device) in china because every factory over there appears to be knocking out bootlegs left right and centre. The situation is so bad for segger that they've had to introduce "serial number" checks in order to access the latest software, this appears to be their only form of security now! oh dear.

I don't want to link to engadget, so you'll have to click-through yourself.
http://www.xbmcfreak.nl/en/sigma-ultra-thin-set-top-box/

Ain't technology grand?

That's not so much ultra "thin" as it is just plain old tiny.