Backlit buttons are possible and can be seen on my site here. This is still a work in progress but I thought I would put up some pics for all to enjoy.

Brian

-See my empeg here-

Brian, that is so incredibly cool!

To anyone with the capability:
I will pay good money if you can cast translucent button and knob sets so I can do this properly!

(I'm sure others would, too.)

Brian/Hugo, what are the odds that (a) kernel control for this would become built-in to the official empeg code base, or (b) the LEDs could be wired directly to the car's headlight-sense line and simply be "on" when the headlights are on (bypassing the empeg electronics completely)?

___________
Tony Fabris

Too Cool!

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"

That would take the empeg beyond my favourite piece of kit.

___________________________

Steve - 18GB Mk II Sssmokey

Holy @#$%@#$. Man, I'd pay ya to do that to my empeg with some Blue LED's. Wow. Now if we only had translucent buttons!!! Argh... so close! That's still a damn nice hardware hack. I'm jealous!!


|| loren.cox ||

Brian,

My hat's off to you! Very illuminating!

Jim

Toby will be very disappointed that his is no longer the only empeg in the world with illuminated buttons!

Rob

We had a few sets of translucent buttons made - Toby has one set on his player, and I think the rest got thrown out when I decided the misc scrap plastic bin was taking up too much real estate.

They don't look that great - they need a different structure and texture to illuminate evenly.

Rob

Hmmm. We could add a "button LEDs on when light sense active" function, as this would have absolutely zero effect on people without LEDs fitted.

It's quite easily done as a kernel hack, though. Just note when the headlight sense changes and send the correct command to the display board.

Hugo

It's quite easily done as a kernel hack, though.

Yeah, but I load new software onto the Empeg so frequently, I don't always have a hacked kernel.

What about the other idea? Skipping the empeg electronics altogether and wiring the LEDs directly to the headlight wire?

What resistor value would I use, and would it affect the Empeg's sense circuitry?

___________
Tony Fabris

I molded some translucent buttons a whie ago but I don't know where they went. I will try molding some new ones and maybe somebody with lights can test them. I was going to swap mine out but wimped out for fear of warranty voiding.

Alex Lear

Wiring the leds directly to the headlight wire is probably ok in terms of current drain, but the PCB tracks/holes are already there for the "proper" automatic control of illuminated buttons.

It'd be much more messy (possibly involving cut tracks on the display PCB) to wire them to the headlight line.

Hugo

Argl,

fix that site, two routers are playing ping-pong there:

27 190 ms 191 ms 200 ms lin-router-e0-0.inebraska.net [199.184.119.18]
28 200 ms 201 ms 200 ms lin-dsl.inebraska.net [199.184.119.22]
29 190 ms 201 ms 190 ms lin-router-e0-0.inebraska.net [199.184.119.18]
30 210 ms * 200 ms lin-dsl.inebraska.net [199.184.119.22]

etc. etc.

I want to see the buttons, too!

Till

Its fixed right now and will hopefully stay alive.

Brian

-See my empeg here-

I would love to check them out if you get around to making some more.

Brian

-See my empeg here-

Congratulation!

Maybe you have to start a joint venture with Darkstorm...He can produce the faceplates and you the illuminated buttons....!

Of course faceplate and buttons must have the same color...

So we can buy a out of the box solution!

CrazyMelki

Of course faceplate and buttons must have the same color...

Actually, that might be possible. If DarkStorm could make small inserts for inside the buttons, you might be able to fit them in. They would need to be real thin, though...

Perhaps some photographic filter material...

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (96GB Smoke)

Oh, and I wanted to say... if anyone does make translucent buttons...

If you can... make them mostly opaque, with only the slightest transparency. That way, the light distributes evenly, but they still look good in the daytime.

And you could make them gray, they don't have to be colored. If someone is hacking the LEDs into their empeg, they can choose the color of the LEDs (they don't have to be white).

___________
Tony Fabris

but the PCB tracks/holes are already there for the "proper" automatic control of illuminated buttons.

True, but then the buttons wouldn't light up unless the Empeg was turned on.

One of the things that's nice about factory car stereos is that their buttons are lit even when you've turned off the radio. This makes the unit blend into the dashboard more nicely, and allows you to find the buttons to turn it on.

Then again, if the buttons were lit even when the unit was on Standby, I guess that would be OK.

I'm actually getting excited about this. I wonder how hard/expensive it is to cast plastic buttons?

___________
Tony Fabris

The buttons would be lit during standby, yes.

You could hack the kernel to have the buttons on dimly during standby, and bright when the unit was on if you wanted, there is a dimming control.

Hugo

Hugo,

Can we get the info needed to replicate the above hardware hack? That's way cool. I see that a resistor pack of some kind is needed. What about the wiring diagram with polarity on the display board? I assume the button light signals are "off" by default?

Why didn't you move ahead with lit buttons for the production units?

Cheers!

______________________________________
Queue 351, Now Mk II #60000022 18gb, Blue

A resistor pack is needed, yes. I suspect something like 330 ohm would be fine.

Anode (small terminal inside led) goes to the resistor pack end. You need 3mm LEDs, this will fit (with a bit of bending) inside the buttons, there are holes for the legs to go through - you can actually buy the switches with LEDs in place, but they're just the normal switches plus a normal LED.

LEDs are normally on ISTR. We didn't go for them due to problems getting clear mouldings to look good with backlighting, the fact that the rotary control couldn't easily be lit (and just the buttons would look a bit strange) and the fact that they didn't make the buttons with white LEDs, which would be needed if we were going to have buttons that matched the display.

Hugo

I second that request... a wiring diagram and full instructions would be GREATLY appreciated by the non electrically/programming oriented of us who REALLY want to do this hack. I'm ancy just thinking about it!!! Exciting stuff.


|| loren.cox ||

by the non electrically/programming oriented of us who REALLY want to do this hack

Just looking at the size of the necessary solder points on the surface-mount resitor pack, I'd say that if you're not "electrically-oriented" (i.e., you're not a whiz with a soldering iron), then you shouldn't attempt it. Looks to be reasonably difficult. And since you're working around the display board (probably the most expensive single component in the empeg), the chances of making a fatal mistake are high.

___________
Tony Fabris

Yeah, i was looking at those solder points... thats just insane. I'd have to get someone handy with the soldering iron to do that bit for me, as there's no way i could do something that precise in my limited soldering experience. *sigh*




|| loren.cox ||

Oh, I'm sure you could do it with a little practice. I just wouldn't recommend practicing directly on the Empeg as your first project, that's all.

___________
Tony Fabris

In order to do some soldering, you had to bend back the VFD to gain access to the solder points. If I ever tried this, I would be worried that I would break one of the pins if I tried to bend them.

Can the VFD be slid off the pins & removed instead? I was one of the unfortunate ones that had the upper-left-corner-visibility problem & I ended up sliding the VFD down the pins more, which solved my problem. Does the display just slide off & on?

Mk2/40GB/Blue

I ended up sliding the VFD down the pins more, which solved my problem. Does the display just slide off & on?

Are you sure you were sliding and not just bending the pins?


___________
Tony Fabris

Good point. Not really sure.

-Jeremy

Mk2/40GB/Blue

So how many people out there actually have created backlit buttons and who is now trying it?

___________________________

Steve - 18GB Mk II Sssmokey

I'm not going to try it myself, but I may try and have a friend do it... I work for a company that has an electronics manufacturing floor & there are some very skilled solderers here.

I took of the face & checked it out. It seems pretty straight forward. There are two places for resistor packs. One of them (the upper one) seems a bit tricky. It is behind the VFD a bit. I'm not quite sure how the rotary LED fits into the picture though. That one seems a bit 'hacky'.

-Jeremy

Mk2/40GB/Blue

I would lurve to do it but I neither have the skills or the equipment. Ditto for anyone I know

___________________________

Steve - 18GB Mk II Sssmokey

I'm not quite sure how the rotary LED fits into the picture though. That one seems a bit 'hacky'.

Yeah, there aren't any tracks for the rotary LED, Brian hacked that one himself. I hope that Brian can provide details of how he went about that particular part.

___________
Tony Fabris

The resistor pack is about 3 x 1.5 mm and has 8 solder points. Adding that also involves bending up the display board to get access to the traces. And to put in the leds you have to first unsolder the filled in holes. I would not recomend anyone doing this who hasn't hand soldered surface mount components before.

Brian

-See my empeg here-

The rotary knob light is a complete hack. The holes by the rotary knob that look like they are for an led are either turned on the same or exactly the same traces as the standby led. To hook up the knob led I ran some fine wire from the traces by the buttons along with an inline resistor and glued the led in place.

Brian

-See my empeg here-

Steve, I am making buttons but the molding process will take another week or two. Then I can make buttons in about a day. I plan on making a bunch of colors and shades. I'm also molding the faceplate for fun.

Alex Lear

COOL !!!!

How much do you plan to charge for the buttons?

Are you also molding a translucent knob? Will the knob be modeled after the new-style knob (fixed so it doesn't slip on the shaft)?

/me drools...

___________
Tony Fabris

if it is like the new style knob then it won't work on the old mk2 right ?

32Gig MK2 In 2001 VW Golf TDI

if it is like the new style knob then it won't work on the old mk2 right ?

They made a batch of "fixed" knobs that would go onto the original Mk2 round shaft. It simply grips the shaft better.

And by the way, all the knob/shaft comments have already been made, so just forget about what you were thinking of saying.

___________
Tony Fabris

what I was trying to say is if alear made a knob to fit the new mk2 it wouldn't work on the old one because the shafts on the pots are different

32Gig MK2 In 2001 VW Golf TDI

what I was trying to say is if alear made a knob to fit the new mk2 it wouldn't work on the old one because the shafts on the pots are different

Right. I was afraid he might be going on an even older knob, the first version, where the shaft was round instead of keyed, but the "vanes" inside the knob were weaker and prone to slippage.

Ideally, he'd mold two kinds of knobs, the fixed-second-revision-mk2-knob, as well as the keyed-riocar-knob.

So what's your knob like, Alear?

(Get your mind out of the gutter, people! )

___________
Tony Fabris

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about my molded buttons. These are not going to be that precise. It is tough to do a 360degree box mold which is what is required to get the inside of the knob and buttons. An accurate shape of the button can be molded then I have to go back and drill out the hole on the back. A little dab of glue is required to keep the buttons on the switches. My buttons will probably be free or maybe a buck if I get thousands of requests( I doubt it).

Here is exactly what I am using:
Castin' Craft Mold Builder Liquid latex rubber (for mold)
Castin' Craft Clear liquid plastic casting resin and catalyst (for actual buttons)
Any coloring for colors ( I actually bought the coloring from the same company.

You can do it yourself but it takes a while and there is a learning curve to making the molds.

Alex Lear

Ah, cool. I see.

I guess it doesn't matter if the back side is perfect, as long as the front looks OK, the LEDs fit, and the buttons stay in place.

I did do a little research on how this sort of thing is done, and I see that the process is a little messy and not a very exact science.

As far as colors go, do you think you could make the knobs translucent gray? That way they would look similar to the existing ones, then I could put green LEDs behind them and they would match my car (well, kinda close anyway).

___________
Tony Fabris

Yep, gray will probably be first up. I was planning on some translucent gray ones because then they will hopefully look somewhat normal in daytime.

Alex Lear

Wow what an interesting thread did I skip!
Well, just wanted to say that I'll buy those translucent buttons and knob, if you sell them! That's a way to good idea... :)

Taym
_________________________
MK II BLUE/RED 12GB #923

I finished my first set of buttons. I decided to do green because I had the coloring. I don't have LED's in my buttons so I just put it up to my monitor for the picture. You can see with back lights off, the buttons look almost black. And when on, green. The buttons came out good but I haven't drilled the holes in the back yet to mount on the actual switches.

Alex Lear

Wow! That's awesome; count me in for a set of buttons.

Wow, looks great!!! Where do I send the money for a set of Green ones?

-Doug
Mk2-12G Blue (Now A/R Green)

Just curious - have those people who are after translucent buttons converted their empegs for backlighting or is it just for something different?

___________________________

Steve - 18GB Mk II Sssmokey

Fantastic!
Now, how hard would it be to produce some kit that allows anybody with no soldering expertise to turn his/her empeg into a botton-lit empeg?

Taym
_________________________
MK II BLUE/RED 12GB #923

Just so everyone can see it, here is Marvin with his illuminated buttons.

This mod doesn't involve the rotary knob at all, and the blue leds used are too bright, so when driving they can be a little dazzling.

Toby.

And without the front panel on

The "no soldering expertise" will be a hard one to overcome. Someone would have to be willing to do the work for you, and you'd have to be willing to put the expensive, fragile display board into their care...

___________
Tony Fabris

Just curious - have those people who are after translucent buttons converted their empegs for backlighting or is it just for something different?

I can't speak for anyone else, but here's my feeling: If I can get a set of decent-looking translucent buttons, I will do the backlighting hack. Without the translucent buttons, there's no point. I'm not interested in the hole-drilling method-- for me, it's all or nothing.

So as soon as the buttons are available, then I will begin work on the hack. Where do I sign up for the queue?

___________
Tony Fabris

WOW.

Where do I send the check, and how much?

___________
Tony Fabris

Cool pictures! Got me itching for one of my own!

___________
Tony Fabris

cool stuff!

bye........

CrazyMelki

I am going to experiment with a better mold, different materials, a full front back mold (?), opaque back layer to disperse the light better.

Also on a differenet note, there isn't a major current limit on the LED circuit is there? I have a PCB prototyper so I was going to create a printed circuit board in a ring shape with surface mount LED's around the ring for the knob area. This would require about and extra 100mA for 8 LED's. Shouldn't be a problem but I wasn't sure if it was being driven by a uP/CPU ouput pin or something silly like that.

Alex Lear

Holy crap man... Sign me up as well... especially if you get a board for a ring around the rotary knob. I can't wait to see blue!! Nice work!


|| loren.cox ||

I'm interested in buying some blue and/or gray buttons and knobs. I don't know what is driving the LEDs but I do know what ever it is drives all four so there should be a pretty good limit on it.

Brian

-See my empeg here-

In reply to:

---

Toby will be very disappointed that his is no longer the only empeg in the world with illuminated buttons!

---

I am surprised that no empeg employees have made a similar mod, or have a prototype with illuminated buttons. Or were you just referring to end users. I can imagine lots of cool variants in Hugos NSX . Especially since the hardware was so close to having this feature. Are there any other partially completed features lurking on the PCB (like a 1/2 completed USB master port or digital audio outputs).

Please dont contrive any criticism about 'missing' features from this post, I am completely happy with my player as is. I am just excited (as is everyone else) that the buttons can be 'upgraded'. This is so cool!!

Great Job Alex, I would never have though of this...


-Doug
Mk2-12G Blue (Now A/R Green)

Sorry, I can't take credit, even though I had the idea, somebody else brought it up first

Alex Lear

They're being driven from a PIC output pin (PIC16C54 I think). You need to be careful with current if you're adding lots of LEDs, or add a buffer.

No problem if you want to wire them to the PSU direct, but you'll loose the dimming ability.

Hugo

I'll buy!

Marius (Escort Cab + Mark II)

Very COOL I have the soldering skills & have worked with LEDs just need buttons made for me, count me in on interested in a button set if someone is doing it. I don't seem to mod things like I use to or I'd probably have already done this to mine.

#695 empeg-car Mk2/Green/Amber/Neon Red/Clear/Smoke-12Gig needs tuner,2.x, VR

"No buyers regret"

Okay - so it's been 3 weeks without any more messages on this thread. I was at a computer fair today and whilst watching someone mod a PS One I had an idea form in my 'ead. This is someone who is used to soldering chips onto a circuit board so surely a set of bulbs would be no probs. As mentioned by someone earlier, I'd be putting my beloved empeg in the hands of a man with a soldering iron, but it's a damn sight better than trying it myself. I don't know the specifics so if someone could give me the right info I could approach this person and see what they think.

How are other people's projects progressing?

One final thing, I take it the heat from the bulbs so close to the buttons doesn't have any adverse effects?

___________________________

Steve - 18GB Mk II Sssmokey

I think there's a key flaw in your logic. The people who've done backlit buttons seem to be themselves extremely proficient with soldering and electronics knowledge, and would be able to blame themselves if they goofed something up. Someone who can put in a Playstation mod chip is NOT necessarily qualified to solder LED's and resistors into the Empeg's circuitry to allow for backlit buttons. I've seen a PS mod performed, and I've also seen where the backlight LED's are to be connected on the Empeg, and there is DEFINITELY more involved in the Empeg modification than putting in a mod chip. If your PS modding buddy screws it up, you've got to send your Empeg across the pond, absorb shipping, etc.

If you ask me, the apparent coolness of backlit buttons is far outweighed by the possibility of fux0ring up a $1000-$2000 piece of electronic equipment.

But if it works, tell us all about how it went. :)

-Tony
MkII #554

And LEDs don't get hot. Appart from the fact that they also emit light they are nothing like bulbs.

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 6GB blue)

How are other people's projects progressing?

I'm waiting for someone to offer transparent molded buttons for sale. Those green ones looked great. Any word on when they'll be ready for public consumption?

One final thing, I take it the heat from the bulbs so close to the buttons doesn't have any adverse effects?

They are LEDs, not bulbs. LEDs don't emit heat.

Well, OK, I'm sure they do emit some heat, but it's such incredibly small amounts of heat that it doesn't matter in most applications.

___________
Tony Fabris

First off, to put the leds in you have to completely remove the display board, which entails removing the hard drive(s) , not hard but for someone who hasn't done or heard about it before they could f up the display board. Next you have to actually bend the display out of the way to get access to the pads for the surface mount resistor pack. Once you have obtained four T-1 leds of the desired color you have to determine the correct polarity for them by looking at the traces and assuming they are tied to +5v, or use a multimeter after you have run the correct program to turn them on. Once you have that you install the resistor pack, which I don't have the type offhand, for the current you want. Then if you want to add in an led or leds near the knob, you need to run wires over to it and attach the led however you feel. Now bend the display back and reassemble. And remember to plug the display board in correctly or you can blow a fuse, or compoenent, I don't remember offhand like others before empeg and co. told everyone about that.

I'm probably making it sound harder than it really is. But an empeg costs a little more than a PS1. And I know I wouldn't trust anyone but me or the manufacturer to do this type of work, but I do have more experience than the average person, and wouldn't trust a lot of people to do things I know how to do.

Brian

-See my empeg here-

I as well am waiting for a type of transparent/translucent buttons. Just so everyone knows, the reason I said the backlit buttons was a work in progress is this. Because I received one of the early MK2s I got a new facia and buttons. So I used the old buttons to drill the holes in, and kept the new ones for safe keeping. That way I can always revert back to normal. The drilled holes were only a quick hack to get some results.

Brian

-See my empeg here-

I made a few more sets. A nice blue set but I don't know if it matches the exact color of the blue screen because I have a green screen.

Overall, buttons aren't ready for distobution yet.

Does someone have exact digikey (or whatever) part numbes for the parts needed?


Alex Lear

You should put together a little kit! i'll be the first in line to order one =]


|| loren.cox ||

Not quite sure if this is what you mean or not.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Guess he meant the part numbers for the LEDs...
Personally I think it wouldn't hurt for future and current projects to mention for which model (MK1/MK2/MK2a) it applies, that stops the confusion.

Edwin de Vaan
mk2 rev.7 # 080000263 (queue 1232) 6+20Gb blue/red

Sorry about that, yes I meant part numbers for the LED's and the resistor pack.

Alex Lear

In reply to:

---

Someone who can put in a Playstation mod chip is NOT necessarily qualified to solder LED's and resistors into the Empeg's circuitry to allow for backlit buttons

---

I was not belittling the soldering on an empeg by saying that someone who can solder chips to a games console would have the ability to work on an empeg. If I have offended then I apologise. Based on the responses to my post, it looks like I won't be getting my empeg upgraded unless someone like Brian is going to be offering it as a service. But, I wish Good Luck to those who will try.

___________________________

Steve - 18GB Mk II Sssmokey

Can we order these buttons yet?

Proud Owner of MK2 080000558 - 18gb Blue

I really haven't put too much time into them but I have been slowly improving on them. At this point I will make a few sets for those people who have made the LED modification. With their feedback and pictures I can improve on the design and get a few more sets for everybody.

If you have already made this modification, email me.

Alex Lear

Alex, those green buttons are awesome! I have a green screen, and those would be perfect...

So, how is the Backlit Hack effort going these days? Has anyone put together a "Package Deal"? IE, a set of translucent buttons, the correct leds, instructions, etc.

I would definitely purchase a set like this if somebody made it!

Hi, I stopped mucking around with my empeg when I found out the product was not being produced anymore. The button modification is easy and the player was actually designed for it. I stopped right before I ran a prototype of a printed circuit board ring with surface mount LED's for the knob illumination. This is not as easy of a hack because you can't run it off the same power as the other LED's, so you have to look else where in the player for power. I'll let you know if I make any more button and/or finish the LED ring.

If you don't end up doing any more work on it... I'm sure we'd all really appreciate any info or pictures of the work you've done thus far. =]

Anything we could do to talk you into working on the buttons some more? Quite a few of us are ready to order!

thanks.

I'll let you know if I make any more button and/or finish the LED ring.

Sounds cool! I'll try to keep my ears open.

I think you got the knob backlight figured out pretty cool. That sounds like that would work just fine. If you ever make any of those, I would definitely be interested. Right now, I'm thinking about adding the leds myself, but it really depends on whether or not I can get some buttons that will work cool, and your home made ones look like they would work perfectly.

I stopped mucking around with my empeg when I found out the product was not being produced anymore.

Yeah, that does suck that they aren't going to make the units anymore. It's kinda depressing, but at the same time, it makes having one that much more cool. The empeg might have a sort of cult following, but I think the empeg community is getting stronger, and the fact that they aren't going to make any more units doesn't seem to be slowing it down at all. Heck, just look at this board. Take Mark Lord for example, just came out of nowhere, and stirred the hell out the empeg world. You gotta love it.

I guess my point is, don't stop mucking around with it, just because they won't make anymore!

Don't loose faith, man!

Long live the empeg!

We will pay extra!!!

I'll see what I can do guys.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but if one were to fabricate a ring-type PCB for the rotary button using surface mount LED's, there shouldn't be a power problem so long as you wire the LED's in series. If I'm not mistaken, the current through the network would be based on the series resistor, not the LEDs; the LED's would only account for .7V drops across each of them. With a typical LED, Vt is around 2.?V, so that would limit you to 2 or 3 LED's per output pin from the PIC. Now, since the PIC typically can only source ~25 mA, so, set it up with 3 LED's and a 116 (or more) ohm resistor, and you should be good to go (provided those particular LED's will have a pin on the PIC all to themselves.) If you can find LED's with a transition voltage lower than say 2.9V, you might be able to add more LED's... but be sure to change the resistor value to prevent too much current from the PIC!

And while we're bringing up this backlit buttons thread, I would like to repeat an idea I saw in another thread:

One of the feelings I got was that casting the back bits (the parts that fit onto the buttons and knob shaft) is the hard part.

You could cast just the front faces of the buttons and knob in a translucent material. The back portions could be cut-off bits of the generic farnell button caps and an extra standard knob, glued to the translucent cast pieces.

I'm itching for backlit buttons.

That is a good idea, I want some backlit buttons as well.

I'm itching for backlit buttons.

Oh man ... count me in.

I'd be surprised if there was a high percentage of empeg owners out there that wern't "Itching for backlit buttons".

After all, it is the Holy Grail of empeg hacks.

I'd get some as long as they fit the same, and I can keep my original ones intact if anything goes wrong.

Mind you, you do get used to finding the buttons in the dark.

If somebody made good quality backlit buttons, I would buy in an instant. :-D

Calvin

But, as already said, it's not just the buttons that are needed. It's great if you know how to solder surface mounted ICs with an extreamly small pin seperation. But for the majority of people, they just can't do that. I have decent soldering expereince and I don't know if I could do that without screwing anything up. Isn't there another place that the backlit buttons could draw power from? What about straight from the DC power supply line with it's own voltage regulator? That way the backlit buttons will only be on in the car. I know that there are some people that will want to use the backlit buttons when plugged in at home. Maybe it could pull a high/low signal which corresponds to the display brighness to also control the button on and off. I don't know enough about the circuit to know if this is possible, and if it is would it be a location easy enough for the average person to solder to? But wouldn't this make it easier to "hook up" the new circuit this way? Wouldn't it avoid micro-soldering?

Can we not make the buttons out of that 'glow in the dark' material that is used for some remote controls ...

If we can ... does it come in the different 'glowy' colours, as the only one i've seen is sort of greeny. That would be OK, but bluey would be even better.

Glow in the dark paint? hmmmmmmmmm!

Calvin

This has been discussed in previous threads about illuminated buttons. Can't remember what conclusion was drawn.

http://www.glo-net.com/glow/

Try them, they may provide an option

Now this I would like to see. The stuff can be used by injection moulding, though I'm not sure about injection moulding in plastic. And, according to them, lasts 10 years. Even so, this might be a good alternative. Wait, they have injection moulding pellets available. http://www.glo-net.com/glow/pellets.html

I'd pay to get a set of buttons to paly with. And it doesn't mean soldering. They have blue and yellow green. I'd love the blue.

Anyone else wanna get in on this and have someone do the injection moulding?

Even easier, they make epoxy paint. It's about $400 for 1kg, but that would paint a LOT of buttons (and knobs too) with zero modifications....

Of course, I'd probably go in on a group deal if someone knows an injection moulder too...

I might of mentioned this before but how about having on the screen of the empeg two little dots one either side right next to the buttons and the knob giving you a visual guide towards the buttons. They are well designed so it is east to know what each one is.

Painting the buttons would be a bad idea I reckon as

1. It would slightly alter the shape / fit
2. The paint would wear off

I found this too ...

Now, once the powder is mixed with inks and painted or silk screen printed, the lifespan is over 5 years if used indoors and 1 to 2 years in an out door environment. Plastic molded products have a longer life span of over 10 years.

You have to order 5kg which will cost about 115$, but they can get sample batches.

Does anyone have the right experience / facilties to make up the buttons from this material.

As mentioned, no soldering, and personally I think they would look OK.

I'm getting some price quotes on short run injection moulding now. We'll have to see how they turn out. My guess would be kind of expensive, considering the material alone is quite expensive. Does anyone have any connections, at colleges maybe?

Have you approached the guys@empeg about using their mould for these? It would certainly bring the price down considerably compared to getting a mould made. These things cost thousands to manufacture.

This came to my email box this afternoon. If anyone has computer (surface or solid) models of the buttons I could get a quote. The upside is that there's no molds (it's essentially 3-D printing) but the piece part cost can be high. The material ought to be sufficient, although I don't know how good the color dyes are. Accuracy is about +/- 0.003" with some slight stair-stepping which is usually fixed with a light bead blasting.

I assume that empeg/Rio have the files, but I don't know if they'd be willing to share...

I've also attached a picture of some sample parts that was along with this email.

-Zeke




SciTech Solutions
The Newsletter of SciTech Plastics Group


Welcome to SciTech Solutions, the e-mail newsletter of SciTech Plastics Group. Our intent is to periodically inform you of capabilities, solutions, successes and changes that may be of interest to you.

Brookfield Rapid Solutions offers
Somos 10120 WaterClear Resin


Brookfield Rapid Solutions, now part of SciTech Plastics Group, is pleased to announce the availability of a new stereolithography material, DSM Somos WaterClear 10120, in the SLA-7000.

Somos WaterClearä 10120 is a composite of many desirable engineering properties, mimicking the flexural strength and modulus of optically clear polycarbonate, the notched Izod impact strength of Nylon 66 and the tensile strength of transparent ABS.

As indicated by the name, parts created from Somos 10120 can become transparent with special post-processing procedures and achieve a refractive index of 1.51 compared to a refractive index of 1.52 with transparent ABS. The transparent clarity is especially useful for fluid flow analysis, to visualize internal mechanisms and to mimic the appearance of parts that will later be manufactured from glass or clear plastic.

Tinted plastic parts can also be simulated with Somos 10120 resin by dying the parts.

Somos 10120 is also a good general-purpose resin. It is a rigid material with tough enough properties that allow for drilling, milling and tapping directly into the stereolithography part. Overall, Somos 10120 is an excellent addition to the other materials offered by Brookfield Rapid Solutions that include Somos 7120, Somos 8120, and Somos 9120. To identify which resin is best for you contact Brookfield Rapid Solutions at (603)577-9970, or select the attached link for material properties.

Somos Properties



Prototypes, Tooling and Production that
Get You to Market Faster

Agree that painting buttons wouild be less likely to produce long-term happiness, though if no other illuminated button option solidified, I might try it. Illuminate buttons of *some* sort are high on my list.

If the cited "glo" product works even moderately well, it seems like the least painful way to go. I looked at their web site and MSDS. It seems like they are for real. I was going to call them until I saw that they are in Singapore. Would one person like to take the lead and contact them? (I will if noone else wants to, but I'm going to be away for all of next week) Perhaps they can provide samples in translucent injection molded materials; I'd chip in to pay for samples if that is what's required.

One other big question is just how many folks would want them, in what colors, and just how much would they be willing to pay. Perhaps another poll to start once more info has been obtained.

One other twist -- might 2 (or even 3?) different knob molds be needed to cover Mk2/2a shaft varuiations?

Agree that painting buttons wouild be less likely to produce long-term happiness,

Well, it's not like you're painting the floor in a busy hallway. I mean, these buttons only get touched, and by a non-abrasive fingertip, a few times a day. I would think a good epoxy-based paint would last years and years. And how hard would it be to take a small paint brush and touch them up once in a while if necessary?

tanstaafl.

tanstaafl: these buttons only get touched, and by a non-abrasive fingertip

You've obviously never seem my fingertips!

I would consider the paint route, but always enjoy exploring the more complicated, more expensive route first! Seriously, with paint one question I have is whether the luminesence would be as uniform -- would it look as nice. Another thought I had -- and this may just be another baseless flight of Jim -- was that, if you completely impregnated an otherwise translucent/transparent plastic with these tiny glow bits, it might absorb more light during the day, and shine brighter at night (than a necessarily thin coat of the paint product).

Oooooh, I just want to GLOW!

From what I gather, the ability of the luminesent paint to radiate light is directly related to the amout of the stuff (to a point of diminishing returns). Of course it also depends on, for powder, the grain size. The larger the grain, the longer and brighter it will glow. After looking at the powder it might be a viable option. But you'd have to cover it with epoxy, as they suggest, which would produce a glossy button. Not bad at night but might look tacky in the daytime. Also, you have to remember that the color of the stuff when it's not glowing is white. So you'd have a white button durring the day.

Well, actually, on that subject.. why don't you paint the *inside* of translucent buttons? Then you wouldn't scratch them at all

But once again, we're back to the point of, do we have any "good" traslucent buttons to try this with? And by good I'm talking about direct replacement for the original.

But once again, we're back to the point of, do we have any "good" traslucent buttons to try this with? And by good I'm talking about direct replacement for the original.


Sorry for the double post, I have no clue how it happened. Darn UBB :~)