Just a note to say that there will be a European Wide three minute silence tomorrow 14th at 11:00 (BST)

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

I am still angry, and want swift action. I do not literally want to go in to Afganistan and level the place, I do want military action. I think that the United States is fairly certain that he is personally responsible for this horrible action and I want him dead.

This does present some problems. Killing him will likely not change much. He is well connected, and has many well trained recruits in some two dozen other countries. It is unlikely that terrorism will simply go away with Bin Laden gone. Their way of thinking will still exist.

The only way we can be sure would be to wipe out the entire 'species' and the United States would be no better than the Nazi's, back in their day with the hallocaust. So that option is out.

If I understand their way of thinking, then the only way to end all of this is to pull our troops out of that region of the world. That is one main point that angers them, that Western influences are 'disrupting' the Muslim world. But we can't do that either and survive with our own way of life. Madmen like Sadam would then control the worlds supply of oil, and many of us westerners rely heavily on that oil.

My point? I dont see any end to this. Maybe thats why I am not an elected political official.. but killing that madman will make me feel better. I still want his head on a stick, complete with an apple in his mouth.

Carl

080000506 12gb-green

I am one of the fortunate people that didn't lose a loved one or friend in the recent tragedy. I am, however, still feeling a lot of anger about this.

My heart goes out to those who have suffered in this time.

I am not saying bin Laden was behind this, we'll leave that to the professionals. Stating that, I thought I would pass this along. Someone posted the following on the i-Club:

rm -rf /bin/laden

Moderators: Please feel free to delete this post if you feel it is inappropriate.

-Trevor

-----
Mk 2, Green 12GB 080000349

NL: The entire country just stopped again today. An eerie, dead silence; almost every house we have driven past today had either the Dutch or the American flag at half mast - even more than would be normally seen here on the Queen's Birthday. There is no doubt there is genuine sorrow here.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

In reply to:

---

I was going to add to my previous message a link to a BBC News page on the Ardoyne/Holy Cross conflict, in which a leading figure said something like "The curse of Northern Ireland is whataboutism, the reaction to any concession that starts 'But what about...' and names some violent event of years ago."

But I couldn't find the page again when I looked. Anyone got a reference?

---

Peter, I think that this is probably the page you meant.

I have no wish to get into any discussion about Northern Ireland, since I live here, and could not even begin to pretend to be objective about the place!

I flew over to Manchester on Tuesday morning, and was sitting in a training room on a course when my brother started sending SMS messages to my mobile. The first one said that two planes had crashed into the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon (by way of explanation, my brother breaks bad news to me via sms, and it is a shockingly blunt way to do it - I heard that Douglas Adams had died in much the same way) My first thought was that they were small single seater planes, as I had recently been reading of such a collision with the Empire State Building in the past. I think the next message read (and I am quoting as best I can from memory) "Jesus, one tower of the World Trade Centre has collapsed" At this point I have to admit that I thought he was pulling my leg, and I replied asking if he was watching 'Thunderbirds'... I just couldn't believe it was possible that that could really be happening.

On a coffee break I phoned home to see if he was being serious, and he assured me it was all real and was unfolding as we spoke. A few minutes later I got two messages... "The other tower has collapsed" and "Another plane heading for Washington" That last message was just about the most chilling five words I think I have ever read, and I wish I had never had to read them.

When I got to my hotel room later, and turned on the television, only then did I realise that it had happened and I had to believe everything I had learned in what has to have been the most bizarrely detatched experience I can ever recall, getting news like that in sub-160 character chunks is just plain scary. I was glued to CNN & the BBC news for the rest of the night, and indeed every night this week, from 5pm until at least 2am every day. My heart and my prayers go out to everyone across the world who has been directly affected by this (except the bastards who caused it - if they rot in hell for eternity it won't be long enough!)

Relating this whole disaster to events close to home is probably unavoidable to me, but I can't seem to get it in any sense of scale that makes sense to me. I have lived through many years of atrocity piled on atrocity, one side attempting to outdo the other in a seemingly unending cycle, so perhaps I am somewhat numb to it here, but to see those huge towers crumble, and worse, to see people who obviously felt they had no other alternative but to leap from over 1000ft to their certain death was something I will never forget...

My final comment can only be that I firmly agree that whoever planned and carried out this act must be tracked down and removed from the planet with all speed. However, it worries me somewhat to hear my prime minister, Tony Blair, say that he is going to be tough on terrorists so soon after he released bombers, murderers and similar terrorist scum from our prisons to walk my streets, serve in my government, and possibly join my police force... well, I'll believe it when I see it, to be honest... I just hope the American people don't learn the painful lesson that Tony Blair says one thing if it makes for a great speech, but doesn't seem to have the actions to back it up...

Geoff
---- -------
Got one of the first Mark 2 empegs...

I live in Chile, where 11 september is a very difficult day, for political reasons. People in my country are still against each other for things happened some 30 years ago, some full of hatred, some not so. But then again, 11 septembre is a very violent day around here.
But this year, it was kind of peaceful , for everyone was so impressed with the atrocities happening in USA.
My prayers go , especially for the victims and their beloved ones, and for the perpetrators too, may the Lord show them their wrongness. And for all of us, who now will live in a different kind of world. I mean, it was not the best world possible by three days ago, but now it will be way worse.
Terrible.

Here in the USA, we have been inundated with news of our immediate situation. It has been very difficult to hear any kind of world news. Can you tell us what has been happening in Chile?

___________
Tony Fabris

Oh, wait. I re-read your post. I thought you were saying that THIS sept 11 was violent in Chile. Now I understand that you meant that sept 11 is USUALLY violent but it wasn't this year.

___________
Tony Fabris

For those who don't know, Chileans commemorate death of president Salvador Allende, killed in a military coup on Sep 11th, 1973. The fact that sympathy with America in WTC tragedy quelled usual disputes is even more significant when one knows that many Chileans blame USA for the coup and resulting brutal rule by general Pinochet. Obviously, the sheer magnitude of this terrible, mindless act of violence overshadows all historical issues and differences one might have with USA.

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Very well informed, very precise indeed. Good to see people having a decent knowledge about some issues long forgotten by others. Thank you.
One final comment, just FYI : It's now been established very clearly that president Allende shoot himself. But the point about that sad day is how things reached to a point of no return that no one believed would happen. And now the world, and that's my fear right now, is heading to such a point.
Oh well. We'll see how this evolves.

As a way of reinforcing my point, I offer this CNN article:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.mesa.shooting/

On initial reports, it seems (although this is a very recent happening and the details may not be fully accurate) that an innocent man in Arizona was murdered by a redneck who didn't know there was a difference between a Sikh and a terrorist.

It now seems that the simple act of wearing a turban can get you shot in this country. I am ashamed to be an American when I read these kinds of reports.

___________
Tony Fabris

I agree 100% with the above post. One of the greatest assets of the United States is our diversity - but at the same time so many people here have a problem with it. Never having been persecuted because of my race I can only imagine how it must feel.

I have never supported anyone that hates, and it pains me when I hear about it now, especially in this time or mourning. These ignorant people need to learn that there is a difference between a Muslim and a common terrorist.

On another note, as each day passes and I talk to more and more people, I suppose it was inevitable that I would meet someone who lost a loved one in the tradgedy.. and that day came. The news only stirs my anger more. I still call for military action - only now I am calm enough to want to wait and do it right. Rushing in will only get a lot of innocent military personel wounded or killed needlessly. I say plan it out, set it up, and then pave them over strategically. Vengence is a dish best served cold.

Carl

080000506 12gb-green

Pictures are, indeed, worth a 1000 words:

http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?q=Y&a=tpc&s=50009562&f=34709834&m=4640913172&p=1

For the whole of last week, I was completely away from the empeg board due to the tragic course of events. I was in Los Angeles attending a business conference when I awoke in my hotel to the news. The L.A. convention center was quickly evacuated and all events canceled. I was able to acquire a rental car for the long 6 hour drive home. I am from new york city, so am more directly affected than others. So far I made accounted for most of everyone I knew, including my mother who works a few blocks away from the world trade center.

The WTC holds special meaning because I used to work on Wall Street, and would travel through the concourse every day, eat there very often. Even before that, because the WTC contains one of the cities largest train stations, I must have spent a good portion of my life traveling through the building. For the past 6 or 7 years I would make a yearly pilgrimage back to NYC to collect Broadway tickets from the world trade center TKTS, and go for food and drinks at the restaurant on top. To give you guys an idea of the immensity of damage done, each building is considered to be a small city of its own. Each building has its own zip code. There is an entire shopping mall along its concourse. The atrium ceiling is tail enough to fit many multi story buildings inside the lobbies!

So when I made it back home, I went into work. My company tracks real time information, including real time positions and movements of flights in U.S., Canadian and Mexican airspace. Our engineers quickly pulled the relevant information on the four flights from our databases and released the initial raw data to the New York Times. (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/national/13LOGA.html) we followed by by reconstructing all four flights into animated AVIs which we released to the press (CNN, CBS, etc). We're doing what we can to track these bastards down.

Calvin

The WTC holds special meaning because I used to work on Wall Street, and would travel through the concourse every day, eat there very often. Even before that, because the WTC contains one of the cities largest train stations, I must have spent a good portion of my life traveling through the building.

I know what you mean. I spent only a week with a company in John street and lodging in Hilton within the WTC complex itself (New York Vista, I think - I am trying to figure out from satelite images what happened to it). Yet, the Center has grown to me in that short time. I enjoyed watching crowd hurrying to their workplaces, men and women in business suits wearing sneakers, with dress shoes around the neck or high heels peeking from the bag. I ate excellent cheesacake in an Italian fast food in the mall, spent hours admiring NYC panorama from the roof...

I never expected these memories might become so irreplacable and sad....

I surely hope they rebuild it, stronger and safer if possible, all insurance and other concerns aside. Not doing so would mean acceding a victory to terrorists.

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

In reply to:

---

I surely hope they rebuild [the WTC], stronger and safer if possible, all insurance and other concerns aside.

---

Funny - I think the opposite. It should be replaced by a World Peace Gardens, an island of green low-rise to escape from the tumult of Manhattan. I think that would make a better memorial, and frustrute the terrorists' desire for chaos and disunity amongst ordinary people.

--
Toby Speight - 040103385

The outside of the building had steel supports every 1 meter apart. This kept the building from falling over on the spot, and when it finally collapsed, it collapsed straight down instead of horizontally. The internal supports were well insulated and held up for 40 min before the heat from the fire melted them.

Sean