Hi! Could sb help me please???
My Empeg is full & I want to back it up. Know there's some copyrights problems but...
Is there already somewhere some software doing this through USB or Ethernet (u/ Windows, I'm not used with linux) ???
I'm OK for making a site for this problem, I think a lot of owners are expecting this -3rd part- feature (at least for keeping updated ID3s).
Tnx in advance.

David.
36G mk2 red / TM ordered...
Belgium

You might want to try reading through the FAQ section of this BBS.

___________
Tony Fabris

OR, after you read through the FAQ, you may feel the same way I do that the only easy option is Frank's backup tool that, from last I read, has a 2GB limit and there is still no way to back up the database or have database changes reflected in the ID tags of the MP3 files.

32GB Mk. II in a WRX
Detroit, MI USA
www.PfeifferBeer.com

Since the Emplode code has been open-sourced, is it possible to use that codebase to write utilities that pull files back out through the USB connection?

I would be very inclined to take a stab at it, but I would love to know if there are any obvious technical obstacles to doing this.

Thanks,
Corby
MK I, SN#320 Blue/Green

The Emplode code hasn't been opensourced. I think you mean the Emtool code - emtool is the Linux command like utility for loading music onto the empeg. There are definitely some parts of that code base that could be used to write a file transfer utility, and some of the comments in the source code are very helpful in this respect. As I understand this should also be no problem over USB. There have been some discussions here on the BBS about it, but as yet no one has produced anything. From the comments I have seen it should actually be reasonably straight forward to do this - download the souce, have a look through and tell us what you think :-)

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 26GB blue)

The link to download the emptool source from http://empeg.com/downloads is broken. (The link from the geek site) I hope that SonicBlue has not re-licensed their IP.

In the meantime, I am going through the jempeg code to make progress, but if someone can point me to a mirror (or if the Empeg guys can re-publish the source), that would be awesome.

Thanks,
Corby
SN#320, MK I Blue

go to www.empeg.com and click on support. empeg car source code is on the list, and the link seems to work fine to me!!

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 26GB blue)

Yeah, we erase old releases after a while, and the geek site hasn't been updated in ages.

Rob

this thread has an exe attachment that will download a fid for you. write a perl wrapper to pull fids from the CSV export of emplode and you can back up all your files.

http://empeg.comms.net/php/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=hackers_prog&Number=34490&page=&view=&sb=&o=

As to why there is no source, I stopped making the source or even the tool available when i read another thread about being careful about posting software that allows people to pull out and potentially share music from the empeg.

I don't need the FBI breaking my door down. my apartment manager would be pissed.

of course, if someone at sonicblue wants to give me a written ok to distribute such code ;-)

(and don't tell me emptool's all GPLed so it should be o.k. I don't want to be Bruno's bitch at Leavenworth, even if the chance is remote)

Call be paranoid, but I don't trust the music mafia.

OK, I see this ground has been covered by people smarter than myself. The very first obstacle I ran into was not being able to compile usb_discovery_win32.cpp. This is an important piece of code to me, because I am only interested in pulling files over USB. I already know how to pull them over the serial port, and match the file names with the FIDs, and ethernet is useless to me as a Mark I owner.

So I came back to Empeg BBS, where I should have started, and found reference to the missing libraries here.

So, is there any chance of the win32_usb library being moved to lib/protocol as Roger suggested? I realize that this really isn't on the list of Empeg's ten most pressing concerns right now, but I can't imagine that releasing this library would hurt Empeg's competitiveness in the high-end consumer audio arena.

Thanks,
Corby
SN#320, MK I Blue

Actually, there is not much USB code missing. nothing that's important anyway. disregard the locks, you can do without them.
There is enough there to get USB download working. I've done it. for my mk2 on win2k anyway.

It is moved to lib/protocol in v2.0. In the interim, here's the relevant files.


Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg

I just want to say that I have absolutley no idea what you guys are talking about.... so if anyone can create a little ap that will pull MY mp3's to MY computer, I would be very greatful and would even pay up to $50 for it. I need to swap one of my harddrives soon, and would like to have a backup..... :(

Maybe with the empeg being droppedfrom the product line, getting tracked down by the FBI would be less of a concern? Besides, I think they have bigger fish to be chasing now..... :|

32GB Mk. II in a WRX
Detroit, MI USA
www.PfeifferBeer.com

i'll post something this evening.

I think with the product being discontinued, it doesn't matter. plus, they can always turn off the hooks to download in the player in a future release of the software.

Thank you, Roger! I do not have Amol's experience in low-level communications programming, so this is a big help for me!

I am going to try to build this using the CYGWIN tools since I do not own a licensed copy of Visual Studio. Amol, if there is a toolset that has been working better for you, please let me know.

Thanks,
Corby
MKI SN#320, 6-Gig Blue

afraid I used visual c++. however, I think emptool should compile with cygnus gcc. as long as it comes with the STL (std. template library for C++)

Hi.

I would really suggest that you set up the ftp server on the empeg, a prebuilt package for this task is available on my homepage at http://www.incase.de/framed/empeg.
I really would like to see the source to amold's download-tool though.

cu,
sven

proud MkII owner (12GB blue/green/smoked, was #080000113 is #090001010)

sorry, couldn't upload the source and app like i promised yesterday. I will try to get it done tonight, but it might be a day or two more.

ftp.blarg.net:users/amol/empeg

exe and source included.

it's a really rough 1st cut, so don't blame me if it doesn't work 100% :)

Aren't the files supposed to be saved with a .mp3 extension, or is that by design?

Thx for the nice utility.

Sean

I did warn you about bugs :). try the current binary on my site.

It works! Thanks!

Sean

Works great Amold! I'm running it now pulling all the files off my Mk1. I have been having problems with empeg clone moving the stuff to my new Mk2a and this solved the problem for me of getting my tracks from one player to another. I'm using USB on the Mark1 and it's running great at about 300Kbps.

Thanks very much!

If your looking for enhancement suggestions can I offer a few?
1) If there is no track number in the tag, don't write one to the filename. Same for other blank fields.
2) write the MP3's to a directory structure like the playlist organization - if it's possible to read the structure.
3) if the playlist db info for a track is different than the MP3 tag, write the filename with the db info.
3) with more than one empeg on the USB bus the program bailed with an error. You might want to give an option for selecting which empeg it connects to with USB. The easy solve for me was to unplug the other empeg until the software was downloading and then reconnect it.

In any case the software works great and is over 3GB through my 4GB mk1 in only a couple of hours. Great work and thanks again!

=-Clarke

______________________________________
Queue 351, Now Mk II #60000022 18gb, Blue

I agree, seems to work well here on my 40GB MkII, though I didn't transfer more than a few files just yet. Re: your suggestion #2... The problem with writing files in the playlist hierarchy is Empeg's symbolic link setup... You can have the same MP3 in many playlists, and the same playlist under many different branches... Causes issues for a program to figure out which one you want to get... I wouldn't want a backup utility to write six copies of the same MP3 just because I have it in six playlists... That'd fill up all my desktop HDD's right quick.

I guess a way to fix that would be to put a GUI over this type of program and let the user select which playlists or specific MP3's they want to save. I agree it should prefer the database's info over the ID3 tag info. Or open up the option of user-specified formats using format strings or whatever. But without those luxuries, it's still the backup utility everyone's been dying for. Ethernet for me is about 20% faster which I expected since USB speed is known to be sub-optimal.

Great job, amold.

-Tony
MkII #554

I am sorry if I skipped some relevant part of the thread, but how do you restore all the files in case you need to?
Thanks


Taym
_________________________
MK II BLUE/RED 12GB #923

Also, first bug: if the song title contains a question mark, it is skipped since filenames cannot have question marks on dos/win file systems. For the rest, it seems to be working great!

Taym
_________________________
MK II BLUE/RED 12GB #923

Sorry guys for not posting everything in one message.
I have a question, before I proceed to my 12Gb backup. Does Empegmirror also back up/restore the database?

Suggestions for next releases:
1) Copy the mp3s on disk as you prefer, and than add a gui that reproduces empeg playlists etc, making the hdd backup playable on the pc
2) Make the backup differential: just delete or add what was deted or added on the empeg everytime the backup starts
3) Separate the backup and restore modes, so that it is easy to decide whether to restore hdd dbase and mp3s onto the empeg or to backup empeg dbase and mp3s on pc's hdd.

Quite obvious, I know, but I just wanted to suggest how I see the perfect empeg backup sw.

Thank you anyway for what you've already done, Arnold!

Taym
_________________________
MK II BLUE/RED 12GB #923

there is no way to restore the files or tags yet. Like I said, this is just a first-cut at a backup utility. more as a proof-of-concept than anything else.

As far as the bugs go, i will be working on a better-featured version, so hopefully any bugs you tell me about here will be fixed in a later revision.
I don't have an ETA for the next version, in case you're curious :)

err, hate to be picky, what's the point of a backup utility that doesn't restore?

sounds like a do-nothing-machine

Murray
Go-Wit-Da-Fro

He said it was a first cut.... Give the guy a break..

Until something more elegant appears, Emplode is a fine and dandy "restore utility..." This backup util takes the MP3 files and puts them on your HD. Emplode transfers MP3 files from your HD to your Empeg... Yes, playlists, DB, etc would be lost but hey...

-Tony
MkII #554

OK I sort of understand now. I certainly wasn't trying to be offensive.

Murray
Go-Wit-Da-Fro

Even if it could create directories based on artist/album from the id3 tags, that would be awesome.

The files are easily grouped by artist/album just drop them back into emplode.

this was bugging me anyway, so:

I added option noflat, to create directories of playlists and download tunes to those.Links across playlists are not handled yet. Tracks which are in 2 playlists will be copied twice.

As far as tunes without track numbers go, that's still not handled.
Also not handled is keeping playlist tags over track tags.

As usual, watch out for bugs. consider this a pre-alpha tool. keeping a copy of the last good binary may be wise :)

Amold, this is awesome that you are working on this. Once you have a full release, I want to pay for being able to download the software from you. I've been dying for something like this buy don't have the skills to create anything like this - so I have no problems with making it more worth somebody's time. I know you aren't asking for money for this, but consider it shareware and let me pay to register it ;).

Also, I'd like to put in a vote for this utility creating multiple copies of a track if it appears multiple times. Hard-drive space is so cheap now, I will be able to buy a monster drive that will dwarf my total empeg capacity. I spent so much time linking songs in emplode to multiple playlists, that I'd hate to have to re-do that. And there is rumor that emplode 2.0 will be able to "find duplicate" so that I can tidy up after.

Is the database stored as an actual file on the empeg?

32GB Mk. II in a WRX
Detroit, MI USA
www.PfeifferBeer.com

If your immediate need is a tool that pulls tracks from the empeg, for backup, then you should be fine using the current version.
the availalbility of a full version depends on how much free time i have, so it could be a while.

there will never be a charge for it (not least because that would obligate some sort of technical support :), but I do mention a couple of charities in the README that you can send donations to.

call it guiltware.

Let's call it a "donation" instead of calling the software "shareware." I think the distinction is important.. This backup util is good work, but the idea of anything on the empeg being shareware sounds kinda shady to me.

I think the user should be given flexibility of they want to duplicate their files or not... Ideally the backup util would be able to restore the database later on, so re-linking in Emplode wouldn't be necessary. I realize that's no small task just yet....

Wouldn't the better approach be to just physically copy every disk sector the way Norton Ghost does? That way you'd be guaranteed an exact backup.. Is there a problem with this approach?

The database is a file, IIRC it's /empeg/var/database or something like that.


-Tony
MkII #554

Well, the problem I see with the single backup file is that iit would probably be hard or anyway more difficult to play the backup on the pc. A very very cool thing would be being able to treat the backup as playable directly from the pc. Ideally, it would be great if one could make changes to the backup in the pc hdd, modifying also the dbase file backed up on the pc hdd, and than restore it to the empeg importing all the changes in it.


Taym
_________________________
MK II BLUE/RED 12GB #923

What you've said is true, Taym. The single file is less flexible. But it'd also be a TRUE backup rather than just a "copy of all your mp3's." I don't care about playing the MP3's on my computer necessarily. I think both backup methods have their advantages.

Actually (brainstorming mode on) the best solution would probably be one where the database and MP3's are copied off and easily restored exactly as they were... Amold's utility as I've seen it doesn't preserve the original FID number or corresponding *1 ASCII fid files. It just saves the MP3's.

I guess the best way to implement this would be:

1) Transfer the database as it is on the empeg. Also, optoinally transfer the config.ini, kernel, scratch partition, etc.
2) Transfer the MP3's, with each one, saving a local database with the FID numbers and the ASCII FID files.

The restore utility could then (probably) copy the MP3's over, rename them to the correct FID number, copy the ASCII fids over, copy the database over, and things SHOULD work... Any Empeg folks care to comment on this strategy?

But as it is now, we all have a way to back up our MP3's, and that's a very good thing.

-Tony
MkII #554

Wouldn't the better approach be to just physically copy every disk sector the way Norton Ghost does? That way you'd be guaranteed an exact backup.. Is there a problem with this approach?

If you have a 96GB empeg with only 10GB full then you'll need 96GB of space to back it up rather than 10GB. Trying to decide which sectors are unused is not worth the trouble, IMHO.

Regards,
Borislav

If you have a 96GB empeg with only 10GB full then you'll need 96GB of space to back it up rather than 10GB.

Ghost images can be compressed, and also set to not copy empty space. I use Ghost on my PCTV machine, so that I can quickly get back to an OS load to watch TV if the current one breaks. The image ended up compressing pretty well, and with a single dos boot disk, I can pull it back over the network.

There is a opensourced program that does what Ghost does, it may be worth a look for those wanting to dump a non-playable backup to their computers. It's called Partition Image.

There is a opensourced program that does what Ghost does, it may be worth a look for those wanting to dump a non-playable backup to their computers. It's called Partition Image.

I take my words back then, Partition Image looks like a viable option.

Borislav

This is exactly what I am doing, only using ftp. In the case of restore the things would probably work immediately. In the worst case, one would drop the database file to force the player to rebuild it from *1 files and playlists.

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

1) Transfer the database as it is on the empeg. Also, optoinally transfer the config.ini, kernel, scratch partition, etc.
2) Transfer the MP3's, with each one, saving a local database with the FID numbers and the ASCII FID files.


1. I think it's much simpler to just rebuild the database after songs have been uploaded. The backup of config.ini is a smart move. maybe also eq-settings?

2. This should be sufficient to completely restore all songs/playlists

I'm currently testing the new backup-functionality of displayserver; it copies all fid-files from /drive0/fids /drive1/fids to a local directory.
I'm going to test a restore tonight

Frank van Gestel

Mmm... Yes, I agree that the disk image would be a total and specular backup. But I think all we really need is:
1) Backup of mp3 files
2) Backup of dbase/playlists
3) Backup of empeg settings.

Now, all those things are already in form of simple files on the hdd of the empeg, so maybe the best and easiest thing to do is simply create an utility that copies those to the pc hdd (and empegmirror is starting to do exactly that), and rerstores the files back to the empeg hdd when needed. Just being able to do that covers completely what a backup sw is supposed to do.

Than, IF you leave the files as they are instead of transfroming them into a huge file, as a second step a GUI could be created to manage what you have on the pc hdd. And obviously one may think of all sorts of different things, that may be implemented little by little: playing, modifying the dbase and playlists locally, change empeg setitngs, renaming according to the empeg dbase, completing the dbase itself, and so on; so that the all changes would be imported back to the empeg if one wishes.

Anyway this is obviously just a secondary nice aspect of the whole project.

Taym
_________________________
MK II BLUE/RED 12GB #923

I think the most useful thing to me would be the ability to backup and restore my playlists. Frankly, I can keep a backup of my MP3 files somewhere else besides on the Empeg (and I do). And... I have the ID3 information all filled out on those original MP3 files long before they ever go to the Empeg.

However, one thing that i have to do manually in Emplode is setup my playlists. If I had a crash and I had to copy all my MP3's back onto a fresh Empeg from my other backup location...I would then have to go in and manual resetup all my playlists all over again. There is no way that I can think of to backup and restore them.

The only thing I have figured is that I must create some kind of utility for the PC that is able to configure playlists... So that I always create the playlists in this other place...and then I can always rerun it to regenerate the new playlist. But how do you reference the MP3 files...since after a restore the Fid's would be different...wouldn't they?