I'm thinking about throwing XP on my machine, but am curious if there are any known issues with emplode, kernel updates, etc.

So, anybody having any empeg related trouble with XP?

In theory, XP should behave exactly like 2000 as far as emplode is concerned. It should be fully supported.

I'm pretty sure the Empeg guys have some XP machines and have been doing testing and development on those.

I'm not sure but I have a lot of sync trouble on my XP machine. PIII 750 MHz 756MB RAM. My Win98 PII 450MHz 256MBRam has trouble 1 out of 10 times.

If it is XP or hardware related I don't know....

TommyE

XP.... Yechhhh.

I've been running XP for several weeks and have not had any problems with emplode or the empeg in general.

Any known issues with XP? (EDITORIAL ALERT!)

I want to allow for the fact that you may have already weighed all of the pros and cons, but, in case you are looking for a little more background, allow me to offer this Infoworld article from Brian Livingston and this one as well. They do a decent job of summarizing some of the cons. I'm running 2000 and will not be upgrading under any circumstances for some of the reasons he cites. I'm not 100 percent certain, but I've been led to believe that you can use an XP license to run 2000 (until such time as Microsoft pulls the plug on that); you certainly miss some of the new consumer-oriented, *highly*-integrated features in XP, but I'll live. I can get them elsewhere without chaining myself to XP.

Jim

The reasons listed in that article are pretty lame in my opinion. I've been working with XP for the last year and I feel it's much better than 2k. If you have an S3 / 3DFX / or ATI video card, you'll be running some of my code :) As far as Emplode goes, I've not had any problems. Give it a try...you might like it.

In theory, XP should behave exactly like 2000 as far as emplode is concerned. It should be fully supported.

I'm pretty sure the Empeg guys have some XP machines and have been doing testing and development on those.

Yeah, that would be my guess too. I'm pretty sure there are not going to be any issues with it, but seeing as empeg combatibility is *very* important for me, I thought I'd ask.


And just to give you guys a little background...
I'm a QA guy for a software consulting company, and we have several XP machines setup here that we've been doing testing with for months. (MSDN subscription) So, I've had a pretty good chance to put it through it's paces. And honestly, I'm blown away by it. Rock solid, fast, and it's ran everything I've thrown at it. I can't say that about any other OS that M$ has released. And now we actually have some decent 3DFX drivers for it...

So anyway, yeah, I'm a Win32 guy, but I'm damn happy to have a car stereo that runs Linux!

As a Microsoft employee I have been using XP for over a year now. I have had no problems with Emplode.

Some other notes:
- Win2K keys do not work on WinXP
- The kernal of XP is Win2K with many fixes and enhancements. If your computer is running Win2K and is just a server, there really is no reason to upgrade. If you use your Win2K machine on a daily basis with various productivity software (mainly OfficeXP) I highly recommend you upgrade. It's faster and more stable than Win2K. I have not rebooted my PC in over a month.
- For home users running Win95, Win98 or WinME - there is no question about upgrading. Your talking about the difference between a Ford Model-T and BMW X5. While the Model-T was great in its time, the BMW is a much better ride.
- The new activation feature DOES NOT force you to register your personal information with Microsoft. You don't even have to provide your name. It does however force you to register your WinXP key so that no one else can register it. As it stands now you could make a million copies of Win2K and make them work with the same key. It's just not fair that people can steal copies that easy. I'm sure someone will crack the XP activation feature, but it will still help in cutting down pirating.
- I my own opinion I think Microsoft should have allowed 1 copy of XP to be installed on all computers within a single house hold (however not corporate computers). I was a little bummed at that. I even had to purchase multiple copies for my home computers.

OK.. I'm done.

Livingston [small excerpt]: "What all these new XP "features" have in common is that they make Windows more convenient for Microsoft but less convenient for users."

Ruffles: "The reasons listed in that article are pretty lame in my opinion."

I personally feel that Livingston was pretty calm and judicious in his comments and I agree with them not only as a home consumer but also, to a much larger extent, as a business consumer. If, as appears to be the case, you *work* for Microsoft, I'm not sure I would expect you to identify with my issues as a consumer.

Jim

CruzThs,

Lessee if I can mark this up enough to have your comments stand out from my responses....

As a Microsoft employee I have been using XP for over a year now. I have had no problems with Emplode.

I appreciate your flashing the badge right up front! I have a number of friends at the UW (oh, CruzThs knows, but that's University of Washington), around Seattle and in other parts of the country who have been running XP since betas and the general conclusion is that it is the "best yet" from Microsoft. From all reports, I would not anticipate problems with apps like Emplode. In the end, though, most of the folks I've discussed it with are not going to run XP in production for reasons such as those laid out by Livingston. For business users already running Win2K on vanilla desktops with basic productivity applications, there are many fewer reasons to upgrade and a bigger downside from what I would call the "choice" perspective.
Some other notes:
- Win2K keys do not work on WinXP What I had heard was that an XP key could be used to backward activate -- or at least be counted as a license -- for corporate licensees that are standardized on Win2K. Up to a point (until the plug gets pulled!) this would be consistent with Microsoft past practice. Like I say, I'm hardly certain on this, and anyone contemplating this as an option would do well to read the fine print. I see Dell Dimensions still load Win2K with XP as an option, but for how long?

- The kernal of XP is Win2K with many fixes and enhancements. If your computer is running Win2K and is just a server, there really is no reason to upgrade...

Again, I'd say there are few compelling reasons for businesses to upgrade their desktops as well unless they're having problems with their application mix on Win2K.

If you use your Win2K machine on a daily basis with various productivity software (mainly OfficeXP) I highly recommend you upgrade.

Big if. Staying away from Office XP for the same reasons I'm avoiding Windows XP.

It's faster and more stable than Win2K. I have not rebooted my PC in over a month.

I will follow with interest. I was *soooo* happy with Win2K (compared to 95/98/NT, anyway!) at first, but things got drecky as I added apps. DLL Hell seemed to be alive and well.

- For home users running Win95, Win98 or WinME - there is no question about upgrading. Your talking about the difference between a Ford Model-T and BMW X5.

So you are saying that XP is butt ugly???

(The X5 looks like it has two big pickle barrels stuck to the front!) Nobody I've talked with would dispute that XP is, at least from the standpoint of stability and moment-to-moment operation, absolutely a huge improvment over weak, unstable offerings like 95/98/ME, and something of an improvement over Win2K.

- The new activation feature DOES NOT force you to register your personal information with Microsoft. You don't even have to provide your name. It does however force you to register your WinXP key so that no one else can register it. As it stands now you could make a million copies of Win2K and make them work with the same key. It's just not fair that people can steal copies that easy. I'm sure someone will crack the XP activation feature, but it will still help in cutting down pirating.

There's a 3rd Livingston article that supports your point even more so -- that WPA is easy to circumvent in any event and is more of an annoyance. Given Microsoft's less-than-stellar track record in all things security-oriented, I am more worried about the potential encroachment of service like Passport, and have pretty much foresworn ever being a Passport consumer. If that means I move to Mexico and deal only in cash, so be it.

- I my own opinion I think Microsoft should have allowed 1 copy of XP to be installed on all computers within a single house hold (however not corporate computers). I was a little bummed at that. I even had to purchase multiple copies for my home computers.

In an era of PC saturation and declining sales, Microsoft needs another revenue stream. I wouldn't expect a company with their record to go easy on us at this point. I hope you got the employee discount!

I'll be coming to a bit of a crossroads here. I have a Win2K work laptop that will not change, a Redhat Linux file server, a debian Linux box that is my all-purpose experimental desktop for new stuff, and a Win2K desktop that I use for Colin McRae Rally 2 and MP3 Tag Studio. This Win2K desktop has an ATI AIW radeon, SB Live! platinum and a bunch of other stuff. In truth I have been using it for some other things such as video capture/editing with Videowave 5. It isn't what I would call acceptably stable. Indeed some of those new XP ATI drivers could perhaps fix some of my ills, and I know that if XP achieves market penetration, Microsoft won't exactly be helping ATI fix my Win2K drivers! Be that as it may, though, XP is a case where I think Microsoft has advanced their own interests beyond my interests as a customer to a point that I am no longer willing to play. If Linux video projects don't provide a usable alternative to Win2K as a vid cap/edit platform, I may just buy a Mac. Part of me wonders why I didn't make that leap a long time ago.

OK.. I'm done.

Whoo. Me, too, I think!

Jim

Let's look at some of his reasons...

1. Passport. YOU DON"T NEED ONE! If you don't trust it, don't put your credit card info in it. I opened a hotmail account so I could use messenger. It works great. I use the account for all the stupid sites on the net that require you to register. It didn't require any personal info to set up. You could always use AOL or any other type of messenger service.

2. Spam mail?? To reject an OS because you *may* get spam from MS is rediculus. You get spam from *every* company out there. Heck, you buy a TV and register the warrenty and you get junk mail. I don't get any more spam on my hotmail account that I do on any other. Also, it's easy to delete.

3. The Java download? Big deal. We live in a world where *Lots* of people have broadband and 5 megs only takes a few min. Even with a modem it doesn't take that long and you only do it once.

4. IE plug in's...I've used it for the last year and I've not noticed problems with web pages not working. Do you have examples of pages that I can't get to with IE?

5. The activation thing just pisses people off because they have to keep the license agreement now which is the same as it's always been. You weren't supposed to install win9x on multiple machines either but the technology wasn't around yet to make it easy to enforce.


I don't work FOR Microsoft. I have worked AT Microsoft for the last 3 years with many of their engineers. I'm not quite sure how to respond to your last statement. Just because I work AT MS, you think I'm not a consumer?? I'm sure your needs aren't very different from mine. Working at MS doesn't make you blind to what users want.

I appologize for the tone of my previous post. I've just heard so many people trash MS and their products and 99% of them don't have a real reason. A lot of people spent a lot of hours working on XP. There are plenty of things wrong with it. There are plenty of problems with EVERY OS. Software is never finished. It's an ongoing process. In my opinion, to dismiss XP for the reasons Livingston stated is a mistake.

OK.. Just one more thing after reading Livingston articles (which I think were a waste of time by a known Microsoft basher).

Passport - Ruffles is correct, you don't have to sign-up for passport. The big thing is that Livingston claims Passport continuely sends out your password. THIS IS WRONG WRONG WRONG. Passport uses the authentication scheme called Kerberos which is a distributued network authenication scheme created at MIT.

Here is a little description:
Kerberos
A scheme for establishing an authenticated identity for a user and sharing that identity securely with distributed computing services, the Kerberos protocol is named for a three-headed dog that guarded the entrance to Hades. Kerberos authenticates a user using a combination of their identifier (or principal) and a password known only to them. It can also encrypt communication across networks.
An application is said to be kerberized if it can supply or retrieve authentication information using the kerberos protocol.

Using this scheme the users password is only sent over the network ONCE (when you signup for a Passport account). And when that password is sent it is encrypted using Triple DES.

When a user goes to a passport site, a request is sent to the passport server. The server then creates an encrypted ticket for you and sends it back to your computer. If your password (either stored on your computer or in your brain) can open the ticket, you are then allowed to enter the website you are trying to get into. To add more security, tickets expire within a short timeframe.

Hope that helps clear up Passport security a little.

I would just like to formaly appologize for somehow instigating what apears to be a completely off topic Love/Hate WinXP discussion. That was certainly *not* my intention.

There are some smart people on this forum, and I think you guys have made some good points. However, my origional question was not "What do you think of XP?". So please, lets not let this thread get out of hand.

Now, as far as real issues go...

It looks like TommyE is haveing some synching problems. Anyone else? I realize he is also haveing the same issue with 9x, and that it could be hardware related, but It is good input.

I have a seriously difficult time having emplode/XP recognise that my empeg is connected. I have got it to connect once. That time I sync'ed but had a problem in the final stage of the sync. All the data was correct in the empeg and my songs/settings made it so I haven't looked back since. I only sync about once every 3 weeks so I haven't put too much time into solving the problem. I am using USB and have not tried ethernet. Serial couldn't connect. Odd thing is I had problems with empegTaxi also so this is probably a problem on my end.
Oh, and I like XP, I used 2000 before and some of my games wouldn't play.

2 things

xp ativation was cracked 3 months ago. there is a file, also, which i won't post here, that can be copied and as long as the same amt of ram is installed, you are set (not sure if that works in teh release)

Kerberos - call it by its' real name MICROSOFT KERBEROS, it is not standard, or as secre, but it is a great step.

No one here should run xp home if they are on broadband , period, to my knowledge home is the only version of xp that has full open sockets, i don't believe that is teh case in pro or 64 bit.

My take as i see it.

FWIW i have no probs with XP and emplode, but that wasn't the latest beta.

-rockstar
a lowly MCSE/CCNA

Did you also put Win2K through the same paces? From the reviews I've read, XP doesn't really add speed or stability over and above Win2K. As I speak, I have had my Win2K box running for 18 days, and that includes running a VMWare Linux box, doing video capture/post processing, playing DVD's, etc. And it's on a Duron 800 overclocked to 1000. So I think Windows 2000 has all the stability and speed I need.

From what I've read, all XP is to a 2000 user is a cosmetic upgrade. And given the shady things M$ is doing to it in regards to pricing, licensing, and all of the Big Brother features, I don't think I'm going to upgrade. If I was running 98, NT, or Me, I would certainly do it for the speed/stability advantages. But until the day Microsoft starts writing their apps so they specifically force the user to upgrade, I'm staying with Win2K.

Rockstar is absolutely correct in stating that Microsoft's flavor of Kerberos is NOT the Kerberos standard. I write netcentric security software for a living, and when I went to implement kerberos authentication into our software, it was a cinch to do for our Solaris clients. For Win2K, it required reading a bunch of Microsoft's white papers which detailed their "enhancements" to Kerberos. Enhancements my ass.

Passport has had a LOT of security weaknesses exposed in very recent times. You can say a lot of good things about Microsoft and I won't argue with you, but please please don't try to argue that they have a good track record with implementing security. That statement is so false it's humorous.

XP just another in a long line of Microsoft upgrades that the company must convince everyone to buy in order to keep the company's profits from falling-- there's nothing revolutionary about it. Since the company has already sold Windows to every man, woman, and child are there many new customers even left? All thats left is to sell upgrades to existing customers. What other company gets to sell customers the same non-consumable product over and over and over again at such frequencey? Yes, I realize there's been improvements to Windows over the years. But there has only been real significant improvements every 5 years or so.

Recently at my company, the site manager has started using the phrase "technology bullshit" to describe many IT projects. At first I and many others thought he "just didn't get it" and must be a moron. Now I'm coming to realize he's right to a large extent. In IT we often spend large sums of money upgrading and changing systems and technologies. The cost to the company to make these changes is often not trival, yet it's nearly impossible to accuratly assess the payout after we do the project.

This is in complete contrast to other projects in the company. Other, non-IT, projects absolutely have to justify a payout with-in a fairly short timespan or the project doesn't happen. Why should IT be any different?

One project that often doesn't need to happen is upgrading Windows and Office every year or two. In many cases we are happy with how these work and see no need to change anything. The last time we upgraded Office it was only because Microsoft purposfully made it impractical to keep the old version-- people from other companies were e-mailing us attachments that we couldn't read with our older version of Office. Unforunetly many are naieve enough to believe the claim that if you add new features, the file format has to change. There is no technical reason why MS couldn't develop an extendable format that allows older versions of Office to just ignore the new information in the file, much like most web browsers do.

This forced upgrading is costing American business billions in lost profits being sent to Microsoft and/or wasted on man hours implementing stuff that doesn't really need to be changed. Yet, I saw Bill Gates on Charle Rose two nights ago claiming that Windows XP will introduce new improvements in productivity which will in turn help revive the economy! Is he really that arogant, or does he just think we're all idiots? It was really hard to tell.

In short if your current system meets your needs, I see little need of upgrading. And if you're already running Windows 2000, I see no need to upgrade at all.

Diznario: "I would just like to formaly appologize for somehow instigating..."

Hey, why are *you* apologizing? I'm one of the folks who turned it from On-Topic to Off.

You might actually want to have a thread that deals with whether Empeg bits work under XP!

Since I did want to respond to a few things, and maybe thinking it would help preserve this thread for your original functional discussion, I moved my response here.

Jim

I dont' dusagree with you there, but i would like to offer one opinion.

A lot of people like to argue how much more secure *nix is then windows... i agree, but ONLY if you have an advanced user setting it up. Out of the box , windows wins hands downs, cept maybe 2 versions of *nix i can think of, FreeBSD being one of them. So while they are not security gods, for home users and configuratiopn, the only thing you can get that is more secure and *easier* is the macOS.

Also, please bear in mind that if you actually KNOW what you are doing with a windows setup, hacking is not that easy, with windows 2000 at least, it's the LAN admins that don't know the product but THINK they are gods with it that are dangerous.

If you want a truely secure network, unplug it from the internet.

It's [WinXP] faster and more stable than Win2K. I have not rebooted my PC in over a month.

Let me tease you a bit:

One should not be able to determine whether XP is more stable than 2K. 2K was marketed as enterprise-caliber operating system, much more stable than NT4, which was also marketed as enterprise-caliber OS. Now, one reboots enterprise-caliber operating system:
- when it is installed
- when UPS(es) fail
- when processor is swithed off for hardware upgrade (if we are talking about cheap, non-fault-tolerant hardware)
- when kernel is changed (actually, some argue that an OS is not entrerprise-caliber if you have to restart it even then)

A timeframe of a month can distinguish between a toy and a mockup of a toy .

Sorry for this, but I have been burned by Windows instability all too often (including this weekend when it took me two days to reanimate an ancient Win98), and enjoyed robustness of various Unices (including Linux), VMSes, MVSes etc for too long not to see the difference. The news of Microsoft finally paying serious attention to Windows stability, robustness and suitability for 7x24 work is encouraging, but I am still not recommeding it to my clients (who are mostly in banking and similar industry). Time will tell.

I'm having lots of problems getting XP to see my empeg also. It worked with no problem upgraded the kernel, but emplode doesn't like either my USB or serial connection. I suppose I can try ethernet again.

Rob mentioned that a lot of people were having time-out issues, and not limited to XP, but it has supposedly been fixed and will make it into the next release.

OpenBSD is a lot more secure than FreeBSD. Is that the other one you were thinking of, or was it something else?

I have a seriously difficult time having emplode/XP recognise that my empeg is connected.

I'm having lots of problems getting XP to see my empeg also.

Hmmm... This doesn't sounds very reashuring...

However, It would appear that other people are not haveing trouble, so maybe it is only certain configurations. Were these upgrades from 2K, 9x, or fresh installs? Were you having the same trouble before you switched to XP?

Just a couple of thoughts...

I never tried 1.03 with XP, and haven't tried 2.0b3 with Win2k, so I don't know where the problem happened. Mine is a fresh install though.

Mine is a fresh install. I used to use the older emplode with windows 2000. I am using the new emplode with windows XP so I'm not sure if I am having problems because of windowsXP or emplode.

I should be more specific, emplode sees my empeg on USB sometimes but can't connect to it.

Hey, thanks for the updates! You guys are too good!

So, I have XP on my system now. Fresh install. Here's what I'm seeing with emplode 2.0b3:

Ethernet: Works, but I have to turn off the built in "Internet Connection Firewall" in order for it to see it. I tried synching several times, and so far so good.

USB: It shows up in the list of availible units, but I get an error when I try to connect to it. I'll post a screenshot of the error in the bug reports section.

Serial: I uploaded v15 of MLord's ever so popular Breakout/Voladj kernel via Tony's Logo Editor, and everything went smoothly.

Conclusion: Ethernet is fine with me, but I'm surprised USB doesn't work. Also, I never tried USB on 2.0b3 under Win2K, so I'm not sure when that problem was introduced.

As far as the built in firewall goes, I'd love to leave it enabled, and still be able to synch my unit. Anyone know off hand if this is posible? Perhaps by turning off one section of the firewall?

Hmm. You answered some of the questions here that I asked in the Bug Reports forum. The fact that the Discovery dialog works but the connection does not work is strange. It means USB is at least working somewhat.

You don't suppose XP did something silly like implementing a firewall for the USB port or something?

ICS active causes the TCP/UDP port that emplode uses to be blocked. You should enter it manually in the allowed ports table.

Edwin-

Thanks! I'll try that...

Tony-

I'll check the bug reports section, and answer what I can there.

Wow, check this thread out. :-)

Yes, I've been over in the Bug Reports board with a very patient Tony observing my play-by-play of trying to get USB recognition of my Rio.