Can't believe that no one is talking about this...

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011031/tc/media_sonicblue_dc_1.html

Man, I hope that SONICblue can pull this off. I want to see this kind of technology in my house!

- Jon

You beat me too it!

Here's the NYtimes article, and here's another [gleaned from /.]. Yeesh. Let's hope they come out of this one unscathed... but it doesn't look too good.

that is pathetic I wish the rotten broadcast networks would just die already. (go cable and sattelite) I don't know what grounds they could have for a lawsuit over the commercial advance feature and the program sharing feature why do they even care are too many people going to see their shows.

too many lawyers !

If sonic blue "stands" behind Replay TV like it "stood" behind the riocar...... well you get my point.

Good point. I haven't heard that TiVo is working on this technology, but I hope they are...

- Jon

If sonic blue "stands" behind Replay TV like it "stood" behind the riocar...... well you get my point.

Very well put. Y'all better buy those Replay 4000's toute de suite. They won't last long.

It was interesting to see that the Replay has a (empeg like)queue taking pre-orders. Hopefully there will be something left after the layers are done with them.

This just pisses me off... I remember reading about TiVo and RePlay when they were just at the Consumer Electronic show... TiVo was trying to get in bed with the networks by not only NOT have a "commercial skip" but also by allowing the sale of ad space on your screne and "program suggestions". The whole concept just pissed me off... (nearly as bad as whatever idiot decided to put audio commercials on gas pump nozels). RePlay was the only recorder that had any merit... sigh...

buy your RioCars while you can ... before the next generatoin made by Sony forces record company ads on it.... or just outlaws them altogether.

I think you've got it backwards. It's true that TiVo didn't include a 30 second skip as a concession to the broadcasters. But it's Replay that always had the potential and now does show advertisments on the screen (when paused). The original story was that Replay's basic guide was "free" (not really) and in the future they might choose to show adverts on it but would offer an enhanced guide that cost money and had no adverts. TiVo has always charged an additional fee for their service and I've never heard about any possibility of them showing forced adverts. They do have areas in their UI where broadcasters can buy space but you never have to visit these areas if you don't choose to.

I'm sorry, but I don't think the networks are such bad guys here. How else do you propose they make money?

-Dylan

I just hate that they are getting sued over something that isn't illegal how does that work can I just make up stuff to sue people over. can I sue nbc because their shows suck

maybe the idea that you can make enough money on advertising alone to exist is outdated

BTW, here's how you can get your TiVo to do the 30 second skip...

Best hidden feature ever!

select-play-select-3-0-select

Same sequence will change it back. Once toggled, your -> button will skip 30 seconds.

Thank me with cash please...

- Jon

The new beta for Tivo (2.51?) also supports index advances.. (pressing the index advance key gets you to the next index point)
-mark

which button is -> referring to ?

thanks

I like the 30 second skip better than the index mark thing... personal preference...

The -> refers to the button labelled "advance".

- Jon

cool thanks

is there anyway to get rid of the "feature" where is jumps back after fast forwarding ?

It's a toggle. So if you enter the sequence again, it goes back to it's original state.

- Jon

It's a toggle.

I think he was referring to how when you fast forward, in the middle-speed and highest-speed modes when you go back to play, the player backs up about two minutes from where you left off the fast forwarding. This is (as you know) because at 60x fast forward speed nobody has reflexes fast enough to actually stop the player right where they want to start watching.

The index advance only seems to work in Fast Forward mode. In play mode advance works as it always did before -- toggles you either to the end of the recording or back to the beginning.

I *love* the idea of the :30 advance, though. So with that toggled on, I can still go into FF mode and then index-advance to the end of the recording? Or in REW mode index back to the beginning? Too cool!

Have you noticed the new addition they have put in the "To Do List" functionality? There is now a Recording History selection that lets you see why things you thought were going to record didn't record, and better yet, why things you think are going to record in the future aren't going to record.

I think TiVo has its user interface together better than just about any consumer electronic device I have ever seen.

tanstaafl.

select-play-select-3-0-select

Does that mean I could key in: select-play-select-6-0-select and skip 60 seconds?

Where did you find out about this neat little trick?

tanstaafl.

I don't think it would work to do 60, but give it a shot and let us know...

I found this trick on the TiVo forum...

http://www.avsforum.com/ubbcgitivo/Ultimate.cgi

- Jon

I don't know what grounds they could have for a lawsuit over the commercial advance feature and the program sharing feature

I think I am going to put myself in an unpopular minority position here... but so be it.

I have to come down on the side of the Networks in this instance. Now whether thay have a legal or moral right to insist that people who watch their programs also watch their commercials... I don't want to get into that. But from a purely selfish point of view, I want to see the networks continue, and the only way they can do that is through the sale of advertising. If there were no networks, there would be much less programming to watch, and that program would be expensive. (You think the cable companies wouldn't raise their rates through the roof it they were the only game in town?) A great deal of network programming is not particularly good... but there is enough that is good that I cannot even begin to watch all of it that my TiVo records for me, and I do not subscribe to any cable service or have a satellite dish--the only television I watch comes in through the antenna on my roof.

The production costs of the programming I watch is paid for by the people who advertise in the programs. And the fewer people who watch their advertisements, the less money the network can charge, thus the less available for production of entertainment.

So who cares if the networks go away? There's always cable... but I for one would miss shows like "West Wing"; "Ally McBeal"; "Boston Public"; "Jag"; "Dark Angel"; even the syndicated re-runs of "Grace Under Fire".

So, yes, the networks are concerned, and I share those concerns.Any limitation on the variety and diversity of programming available to me is a Bad Thing, and having to sit through the occasional commercial is a small sacrifice to make.

That said, and to absolutely prove my total hypocrisy, I have probably not watched 50 commercials in total since last January when I got my TiVo. That 60x fast forward speed makes it pretty easy to skip by the commercial breaks.

tanstaafl.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the TV advertising industry hadn't decided it was necessary to perform audio compression on all the commercials, supposedly to make us notice, but, really, to make us all deaf. In fact, before I had a TiVo, I just muted the TV as soon as the commercials came on so that I could listen to the actual show at a reasonable volume. I wonder if the networks could sue me over that. Or sue the advertisers for making me inclined to do that.

On a tangential note, I've noticed how poor my wife is at controlling the FF and REW on the TiVo and missing the resumption of the program by a long shot. While watching her, it occurred to me that TV stations/networks should start charging premiums for the spots abutting the actual content.

it occurred to me that TV stations/networks should start charging premiums for the spots abutting the actual content.

And what makes you think they don't?

I don't think it would work to do 60, but give it a shot and let us know...

I gave it a shot... and you're right, it didn't change anything, just left it at the :30 setting. I didn't try it by toggling back to the "normal" operation and then trying the :60 setting.

However, there is a problem with setting your advance button to be a :30 advance. I was unable to find any method of advancing the program by more than 30 seconds after that -- no index advance, no advance to the end of the program, either in play or in fast forward mode. Not surprisingly, the advance button could not be fooled into backing up by 30 seconds.

Without the index-advance or end-of-program advance, the :30 advance is not too useful to me, although YMMV.

Neat hack, though!

tanstaafl.

Yeah, I just love the ability to hit the advance button 5 times and be back to my show... usually Curb Your Enthusiasm or Dark Angell... ;-)

- Jon

Where are you watching Curb Your Enthusiasm where it has commercials?

Good point. Ok, Dark Angel and Politically Incorrect...

- Jon

Another news story...

http://money.cnn.com/2001/11/09/saving/wastler_column/

- Jon

Is there a Forum for Replay TV? Can you add hard drives like in TIVO. The main reason for me buying Tivo.

Say all you want about SonicBlue and the RioCar, you have to remember that this is the same company that took the RIAA to the mat over the original Rio, creating the MP3 analog to the Betamax decision.

I don't think there's a soul at SonicBlue that didn't expect this suit, and wasn't prepared to defend it to the death from day one. Besides, the networks are wimps compared to RIAA and MPAA.

The networks don't have a leg to stand on regarding the 30-second skip, and I've always been disappointed with TiVo for caving on that one, workaround or not. Same for streaming recorded shows around your house (I have a modulator that puts whatever is coming out of my AV receiver on channel 88 for the rest of the TVs in the house...how is doing that over ethernet any different?).

But being able to send programs to your friends was clearly bear-baiting. They knew what they were doing, and I think this will be very interesting to watch over the coming months.

And yes, I'm in the queue for a Replay 4000. I have no problem paying the lawyers who are fighting the content cartels.

There is a forum here and you can add drives to the ReplayTV.

Thanks, and BTW I signed up for a ReplayTV 4000. It looks like the TIVO hackers are headed this way with all their add-ons. But to do it right out of the box is great.

If Sonic|Blue actually sells some of these units, how can they come after the consumer and shut it down? They can't make Sonic|Blue buy them all back if they were to loose could they. I wouldn't sell it back anyway. Just kinda curious. If nothing else those that get to buy one will have that functionality reguardless of the lawsuit outcome.

My favorite part about all of this is today my "backup" MkIIa showed up, and inside were three brochures for the ReplayTV 4000.

"High speed Internet connectivity... Commercial-free playback... Store and View Digital photos... Send TV shows over the Internet.."

That brochure SCREAMS copyright violation. Not that I'm on the networks' side, on the contrary, I'd love to own a RTV 4000. But they're just asking for it.

SonicBlue vs. Big Media. Easy call there.

mrmph gurg wanrugh... Excuse me. I was removing my foot from my mouth.

TiVo is now displaying a Lexus ad prominantly on the main screen. *sigh* This is a very disturbing development.

http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/Forum1/HTML/009517.html

-Dylan

They're also recording late night ads to show you if you want. As to why you'd want to watch them, I don't know. Look in your ``Showcases'' for items that have a little clapboard icon next to them. And there's no way to delete them!

TiVo is now displaying a Lexus ad prominantly on the main screen. *sigh* This is a very disturbing development.

I actually have no problem with this. I suppose the initial message (which pops up when you visit the menu after it's downloaded) is annoying, but the addition to the bottom of the main menu is no big deal because it in no way interferes with my use of the device. And, if it helps TiVo stay in business, more power to them.

Now, if they start doing something like integrating ads in-between menus or managing to insert them into programs, then I'll have a problem with it.

In reply to:

---

it in no way interferes with my use of the device

---

It affects mine, in a piddling manner. I used ``TiVo, PageDown, Up, Select'' all the time to get to the record menu. Now I have to throw an extra `Up' at it. Just annoying. And even if you watch all of the content in that menu, it stays there, with the annoying star.

I guess it would be really annoying for people with macros setup too. I'd hate to have to reprogram those every time they decided to advertise something.

But, TiVo is still tons better than my VCR. And honestly, do you think the ReplayTV will be any different? I'm sure they'll find ways to get ads to the users too. I think they do this with the current ReplayTVs.

As I said, just annoying. Nothing more, until they force me to watch ads. I might have to start recording the music channnels or something late at night on a real low priority to keep it from recording the promos and ads, though.