I don't have my Empeg yet (#7445 on waitlist) but I wanted to start preparing for installation.

I have a MY '00 Porsche Boxster with a Becker CDR-220 head unit (Amp, single CD and RDS radio) and the hi-fi factory option (6 speakers, all front, with an external amp). The Becker has 4 line outs, 2 front and 2 rear. It also has a proprietary interface for a Porsche CD changer or a Sony MD changer, which lets the head unit control the changer.

So my question is: what is the best way to connect the Empeg into this system? Please bear in mind I know very little about the details (but am keen to learn - so please elucidate me!)

It seems that there are three options:

Option 1: Replace the CDR220 completely with the Empeg. Presumably the Empeg audio out will then connect directly into the external amp? Downside: although there is an RDS radio on the Empeg, I lose the CD player.

Option 2: Connect the Empeg to the external amp, and the CDR220 as an input to the Empeg. This seems to be straightforward, though I'd like validation that the inputs / outputs will be the right signal strength / voltage.

Option 3: Connect the Empeg as an external input to the CDR220 (i.e. as if it were a minidisc player or CD changer etc.). Problem is, I'm not sure how the CDR220 accepts aux inputs, the connector is labelled only as C-pins 7-20 = Special Connector for Porsche CD changer / Sony MD changer.

Seems that option 2 might be the simplest, option 1 is the worst, but advice, please? Any advantages to option 3? Any problems you can see with any of these? Any other options?

Can the antenna input be split to both the MP3 and the CDR220, or must I use one radio only? Which is likely to be best - probably the CDR220 because of its programmable station buttons.

I'd appreciate any advice, either by e-mail or posting to this board - thanks!

You'll probably have to use just one radio source - and much as I'd like to say otherwise, I'd be lying if I said the Empeg is ever likely to compete with the Becker on radio reception - Becker make some of the best tuners out there. That being the case, either 2 or 3 seem the best options.

If it's 2, then all ought to work OK. If the worst comes to the worst, you could always add a line driver between Empeg and Becker (I've fitted an Empeg with aux inputs before now, and it seems quite happy running a reasonably low input level on the aux inputs)

3 ought to be possible - Sony do an auxilliary input adaptor that connects to a Unilink input on any of their units to give an Aux in. Assuming the Porsche Sony MD player isn't a special proprietary unit, then this might work with the Becker as well. If you're interested in this route, drop me a mail at work ([email protected]) and I'll see if I can dig out any more info on the Porsche changer.

Dominic

Cambridge Car Audio
http://www.cambscaraudio.co.uk

Thank you for the detailed post!

I'd be interested if you had the details of the CDR-220 input. Specifically, there are five sockets on the back, A, B, C1, C2, and C3, with (from the CDR-220 consumer manual):

A: a variety of control and signal pins (all described)
B: 8 loundspeaker outputs (4x +ve, 4x -ve) (all described)
C1: pins 1-6: Line out (all described)
C2: pins 7-12: Special connection for Porsche CD changer / Sony MD changer
C3: pin 13: AF telephone input
pin 14: Earth - telephone input
pins 15-20: Special connection for Porsche CD changer / Sony MD changer

Apparently, Becker sells a aux cable (1319.116-276) that allows the CDR-220 to take aux inputs with a pair of RCA cables? Do you think this is all that is required (and hence I don't need the pin-outs after all)? However, any info you have on the Porsche CD changer or the Sony MD changer (I believe that the MDX-60 and MDX-61 are supposed to work, but not the MDX-62) and their interfaces would be greatly appreciated.

On Option 2, I've found out that the CDR-220 has a 'low power' or 'low level' output of 2.5V. Is this ok as an input to the Empeg (which is marked as 1V) or do I need to reduce the voltage somehow?

Using the Becker radio seems like the best plan all round, thanks.

Finally, which of option 2 (CDR220->Empeg->Amp) or option 3 (Empeg->CDR220->Amp) sounds better to you? Is there any reason to prefer one over the other?

Thanks again,
David.

From your description of the pin-outs on the Becker, you'll definitely need an addition adaptor to utilise Sony's auxilliary input interface. That said, if Becker offer an optional lead, then there's no real need to go down the Sony route anyway.

Having had a chance to think this all over a bit though, I'd definitely say that method 2 is the one to go for. At the end of the day, you're only really going to be using the Becker as a backup, and a means by which to listen to the radio. Running the Empeg direct to the amps means you'll get a higher signal level at the amp's input, and should mean a better end result in terms of sound quality. I'd expect you to be able to run the Becker into the Empeg's aux input without any problems, and if you do encounter any, then Hugo should be able to tell you about a quick fix.

The only slight downpoint is that you won't have music in the car without the Empeg. Go for running the Empeg into the Becker, and you'd be able to use the Becker regardless of whether the Empeg's with you or not. The only time I can see this being a real benefit is when you're not going to be able to lug the Empeg around with you, and you'd have to leave it locked somewhere in the car. But then do you ever park the Boxster anywhere where theft's likely to be a risk anyway?

Dominic

Cambridge Car Audio
http://www.cambscaraudio.co.uk

Thanks again, Dominic. Your reasoning makes a lot of sense. I think option 2 is the one to go for. Also that way, I can presumably use the Empeg to display the funky graphics for the CD/radio on its aux input, too.

I don't believe your last presumption is correct with the current firmware.

The only slight downpoint is that you won't have music in the car without the Empeg.

This is the same prob I have with my installation; with only one empeg available between two cars, my wife still wants to be able to listen to the original head unit (radio/CD) when the empeg is not installed (presumably in my car).

I'm working on a relay-switched switchover network that will re-route (by default) the audio path from the outputs of the head unit to the amp when the empeg is not present; otherwise, with the empeg inserted, the audio path is switched to the inputs of the empeg, and there out to the amp.

Any recommended audio path switching mechanisms, Dominic?

Sony makes an auto switcher that can be signaled from the AUX power lead from the Empeg. I wish I knew the product #, but maybe Dominic has it handy?
Jason

_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."

To answer two questions in one, Sony make an RCA switching unit (XA-39 IIRC, but don't quote me on that) that allows you to use two RCA level outputs into one amplification unit. It's not cheap though, at around 80ukp last time I looked. A better idea might be a DIY unit as I've suggested in the past for utilising existing RCA CD-changer inputs on head units. Something like this. For 'head-unit rca inputs' read 'amp inputs', and for 'CD rca outputs' read 'existing radio outputs'. I've not actually tested this, but can only assume it'll work. The resistor values will probably need to be dropped a bit, and might need a bit of fine tuning to get a decent balance between the volume levels for each unit. If you're running a 4 channel set-up, utilising both RCAs on the Empeg, then you'll obviously need to duplicate this circuit for each RCA pair, tying the signal grounds to each other across each circuit, and splitting the orange Empeg to each relay.

If it's a 4-channel setup, then diode D1 *definitely* needs to be in place on each circuit to kill any back EMF floating around. You might still get switching noise - if anyone does actually try this and that is the case, give me a shout and I'll suggest a few add-ons that should get rid of it.

That's assuming the existing head unit has 4 RCA outs. If not, then I'd definitely recommend a Kenwood KVD-840 speaker to phono adaptor. They're a little bit more expensive than most other spkr>phono adaptors, but work an infinite mount better, and give you 4 RCA outs, where most other units just handle 2.

Dominic

Cambridge Car Audio
http://www.cambscaraudio.co.uk

Has anyone confirmed the Sony part#XA-39IIRC for the switching unit Dominic has spoken of?

Nope, Mark Miller kindly put up a description of the switch that he had used, and later seen on Crutchfield's site; after a dig there, I could only find a household 4-way, 4 channel Audio/video switch which was manually actuated. It did not recognise the part number when I tried a search; I have had a guy here who deals Sony Car Audio components scratching his head trying to locate anything like it in the European parts catalogue. I am convinced it is a mythical beast, so I went ahead and bought a 4-way relay with gold contacts for about 3 pounds. With a couple of diodes, I will be building this in to perform path switching for me.

Let us know how you fare.

I've got one of these for sale.. the actual model number is xa-39mk2. Make me an offer.. (for a picture of the connectors/etc take a look at this post)


...proud to have one of the first Mark I units

I have a carrera 4 and was faced with this same problem. I went with option number 2 (connect the empeg to the external amp, and the CDR220 to the empeg's aux in) and it works great. I did not do the install myself; I managed to find a car audio shop in town (Santa Barbara, CA) that was willing to do it, much to my surprise. At first they weren't sure if it would work but they had no problems at all doing the install.

(I know this is an old thread but thought I'd reply anyway in case anyone else is doing a search for porsche info...)

To just add some more info for Boxster installations (actually for CDR-220 installations):
Check out the Becker web page, they make the CDR-220. go to http://www.beckerautosound.com and
follow the links to the Becker Board. Some of the best posts are gone, however. Bottom line is that
you can use the CDR-220 CD changer input as an auxiliary input. This lets you keep the head unit
as the primary control point for your Empeg.

You can call (in the US) 888-423-3537,
ask for Burl x209, and ask for the audio cable for phone and aux input, and also ask for the radio removal
tools. The CDR-220 connector pinout is at http://www.beckerautosound.com/porscheconn.html .
The CD or Aux audio inputs are in connector box C3 (not shown in the diagram, but retrieved from
board messages):
pin 18 Ground
pin 19 Left channel audio
pin 20 Right channel Audio
pin 8 12V
pin 9 ground
and you will need to turn on Auxiliary mode in the user menu.

Please note that I am still waiting in the queue, and I havn't installed
anything yet, but I have gathered this info in preparation, so am posting
for others.

-gbeck

Still waiting #145xx.....

Hey guys, nice to reactivate this old thread as it suddenly becomes more relevant!

I finally got my empeg (#7445 in queue, 18gb, amber - looks like good color match for Boxster) Friday and aim to get it installed this week. I ordered the aux cable from Burl Thursday so that's the only delay (UPS ground shipping), apart from finding somewhere in the Bay Area that can install it well. Any suggestions?

The CD tray has already been removed and I have a hole there now waiting for the empeg, which now has all my music on it :-) [10gb, 2200 tracks so far, mostly 192kbit/s]. Have also turned on AUX on the CDR-220 by holding down 'TP' for a while to get to the user menu, from which it is obvious.

I can confirm pins 18,19,20 as gb14772 says, didn't know about 8 and 9. However this should be taken care of with the aux cable. Do we know where the remaining connections to the empeg should go? (lights on, tel mute, ignition sense, earth, amp remote, memory)

Also, the empeg has 4v outputs, front and rear. I have the hi-fi package in the Boxster but no rear speakers, so will use front outputs as input to the CDR-220. Do we know if the Becker unit will accept 4v inputs, or is there a good way of taking them down to 1v?

btw, the Empeg is amazing, everything I'd hoped for and more, especially the user interface on the device. Emplode, the management software, is not so good, especially speed of sync including long pauses, lack of the ability to easily sync with a directory structure after creation on the empeg, and misreading old ID3 tags that required re-cleaning all my MP3s (all other MP3 software I have saw only the new correct tags).

The power from pins 8 and 9 is switched; it is available only when
the CDR220 is turned on. Pin A4 is labelled "Constant 12V". I would
assume that this is always on, use a volt meter to check. Pin A5
ls Antenna trigger, on when the CDR220 is on, and A7 is labelled
"Ignition", probably what turns the CDR220 on. Other than the
pins for C connector I previously listed, I don't know what the
other C pins are in the range 7 - 20. For some of the other connections:

lights on Pin A6 to the CDR220 is called "illumination".
I don't have the specs for this, but suspect that
it directly drives the display brightness level.
You may want to look at this with a voltmeter
and play with instrument brightness to see what
what it does.

tel mute Pin A3 is phone mute, ground to activate.
Note that an external phone would also use
the same inputs you are using for the EMPEG
into the head unit, so you would need some
sort of external switch anyway (discussed
separately somewhere on this board.)
Also, the phone mute probably won't mute
the Aux input, since that is where the phone
would come in.

Earth You can get chassis ground from pin C3.

amp remote You shouldn't need this, since the CDR220
will control the external amp. However,
C6 is "Control output for amplifier", although
I don't know the specs for this. I assume the
CDR220 drives this, so you wouldn't want the
EMPEG to drive it.

memory I have no idea what this is even for!

-gbeck

Still waiting #145xx.....

memory I have no idea what this is even for!

..trickle charge feed to on-board backup batteries. Be warned, it is usually unfused.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

Ok, I got the empeg installed in my Boxster. It worked great (until I broke the display a few hours later - see post in bug reports under 'rotary button problem' :-( So, I now have a working car dock but no empeg for a week or two. But, I thought I'd share my experiences, as I know there's a few people who want to install it in the Boxster (or a 911-996 which is effectively identical).

Anyhow, details are as follows:

Audio:

As previously posted, you need the Becker aux/phone cable 1319.116-276. This connects into connector C3 on the back of the Becker CDR-220, and gives three RCA female inputs - aux input stereo (2), and a mono phone input (1). I only used the aux stereo inputs (no hard-wired phone in the car). Note you actually need to assemble this yourself by pushing the cable connectors into the right holes on the Becker plug. The holes are marked with pin numbers with a tiny indentation on the back of the plug, but get it right, as it's next to impossible to take them out later!

Note that as the empeg also has female RCA connectors for front output, you need a stereo RCA male-to-male cable (3 foot is the smallest I could find and is easily enough, $1.69 at Fry's Electronics) as well. Since I only have the hi-fi (joke) package in the Boxster, though it has six speakers they're all front channel, so I didn't use the Empeg rear outputs.

An alternate option would be to wire the empeg directly to the amp, and use the becker as the aux in to the empeg. However, this means you can't play CDs/listen to the radio without the empeg installed, and I think on short trips (e.g groceries) I'll leave it out, as I'm not going to leave the empeg in in a public place, esp. not with the top open.

However this would work better if you have rear speakers or a custom system, as you can then really use the empeg's 4-way equalizer to its potential. The solution I used is just to add the empeg to the factory stock system.

Power/other connectors:

The Boxster only has one ISO car audio connector that is currently being used for the Becker unit. So, you need to tap into the wires on this connector to get a parallel connection to the empeg. The empeg supplied ISO plug with bare wire ends is very useful here as it can be wired straight in, meaning that you can in future disconnect/remove the dock without any re-wiring. My installer used crimp connectors on the existing wires into the Becker ISO connector, which worked very well and was very fast. He didn't even have to disconnect the Becker from the power supply, so I didn't have to re-enter the radio code as it was live all the time.

Mounting:

I put the empeg slide dock into the bay below the CDR-220, above the oddments tray, where the CD trays used to be. It's at a shaper angle than the CDR-220, haven't measured it, but going to be pretty near the 16 degrees max. This actually works out well as with the front bezel it's easier to see the top left of the display in particular, which would be otherwise hidden by the swoop if the unit was mounted so low down and horizontally (always assuming of course you haven't already killed the display through ineptitude).

The driver-side small piece of carpeting behind the plastic console side just pulls off and makes it easy to route the wires from the CDR-220 to the empeg below. Note you will need the Becker keys to pull out the CDR-220 to insert the audio connector and crimp/connect the power wires.

Impressions:

Very cool! The car features came on automatically (dimmer, 4-way equalizer). The empeg switches off immediately with the ignition, wheras the becker (on aux input - hold down TP to get to the Becker menu to enable aux inputs) waits 2-3 seconds before switching off. This is a little strange when you're used to music continuing for a few seconds on switch off but causes no problems.

The sound is great (or at least what you can get out of the Boxster stero), no whines, hisses, or background noise. The front panel is also a nice match for the rest of the Boxster interior, all black and curvy. It looks like it belongs.

The amber display is as near as I can see a perfect match for the amber Boxster/Porsche display. However, it is effectively invisible in normal daylight, even with the roof up, as it has no anti-glare. Compares very badly to the Becker unit which has a completely black background and is visible even in direct sunlight. At night though it's cool. We really do need an anti-glare coating, but empeg are working on it.

Installer:

I got mine installed by Monney Car Audio, Redwood City (www.monney.com, 2001 Middlefield Road, 650-299-9991), cost $60, and it took 30 minutes by their specialist, Juan (sp?). I trusted them because:

1) The owner, Leo Monney, is based there, and he knew about the empeg already. He'd seen it in San Jose, and is trying to become an authorized dealer for the Bay Area.

2) They'd already fitted a blue one (Mk 2, I think)

3) Their website shows lots of cool custom installations for very nice cars (911 Turbo, Ferrari, etc.) as well as plenty of Boxsters

4) They let me watch and guide the whole installation in their workshop

and, as it turned out, 5) The car being worked on next to mine was a Mazda RX-7 owned by Shawn Fanning (founder of Napster). It was having a complete custom system being put in, including an Alpine DVD player in the console - no kidding! I assume he chooses only the best :-)

Anyhow, hope people find this useful. Will post pics when I get my empeg back with a working display again. Remember - don't glue the rotary knob to the shaft - wait for empeg to come out with a proper solution to the slipping knob!

Cheers,
David.

Fantastic report, thanks!

When you get the Empeg back, will you post some pictures?

___________
Tony Fabris

Sure thing. Right now I can post some pictures of an empty car dock but that'll just depress me further...

We'll get your unit turned around quickly - any hardware gets my personal attention :)

Hugo

As promised, Hugo did turn my unit round quickly. Got it this morning, sent it off just over a week ago. New display (yay!)

So, here's a pic of my install. Pretty natty I think...even if I do say so myself :-)

That's what mine will look like when I get to order!

Looks like you have the sport interior too, it goes
nicely with Arctic Silver...

-gbeck

Still waiting #145xx.....

Actually, that's the standard '00 interior on the 2.7, with Graphite Gray interior, Arctic Silver exterior, and Black convertible top. It was significantly improved from the '97-'99 models.

pic of my install

Very nice indeed. However, just to ruin your day... that's a pretty good angle away from horizontal that it is mounted. Makes the screen easy to read, but also it might be outside the allowable specifications for the hard drives. Probably not, but it's a thought.

I've searched the board and the owners manual but can't find the actual specification. Has it been posted anywhere?

Can you measure what the actual mounting angle is? Then Hugo could advise you, not that there's much you could do about it in any case. Perhaps in this instance ignorance would be bliss!

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

The manual says 8 degrees is optimal, though 0 to 16 degrees is allowable (page 6). I'd hope that I'll still get most of the protection, it's pretty near to 16 degrees (the picture is a little deceptive as to the exact angle).

As you say, I don't have a lot of choice here. Also, with the swoop in the top left, the angle makes the top left of the display visible this low down.

Changing the topic a bit... How did you solve the voltage difference problem? From what I understand from reading the empeg webpage/manual and from looking at the becker wwwboard the empeg's outs are 3.2v and the becker's ins are 1.0v. The reverse also seems to be a problem as the becker's outs are 2.5v and the empeg's ins are 1.0v. Finally there's the amp to deal with. Does it expect 2.5v in or can it handle the empeg's 3.2v?

I have a boxster on order and am considering getting an empeg. Thanks,

Actually, it just worked with the current voltages. We plugged the outputs of the empeg straight into the inputs of the Becker. Can't say I'm sure why, but it sounds fine, and seems like the right volume.

Actually, it just worked with the current voltages. We plugged the outputs of the empeg straight into the inputs of the Becker. Can't say I'm sure why, but it sounds fine, and seems like the right volume.

I think that the reason for this is that you connected the female RCA outputs on the back of your empeg to the Becker, correct? In a previous post you mentioned using a male-to-male RCA cable to make that happen. If this is correct, then those output levels are perfect for the aux in.

But my question is, how does that affect your docking capability? Do you have to manually connect the RCA cables before you slide the unit into the docking cage, or did you somehow affix them to the docking cage in just the right position?

Incidentally, I stopped by Monney Car Audio myself, and I think I'm going to use them to install the empeg too. I've got a Subaru Outback though, so the install will be different :-)

Michael Grant
12GB Green
080000266

But my question is, how does that affect your docking capability? Do you have to manually connect the RCA cables before you slide the unit into the docking cage, or did you somehow affix them to the docking cage in just the right position?

You seem to think they were talking about using the in-home connectors for the interconnections. They weren't. They were using the in-car connectors supplied as part of the docking cage. Even though the voltage specs were not the same, they worked fine because those exact voltage numbers aren't critical to making the system work. Everything is line level so everything is OK.

___________
Tony Fabris

You seem to think they were talking about using the in-home connectors for the interconnections. They weren't. They were using the in-car connectors supplied as part of the docking cage. Even though the voltage specs were not the same, they worked fine because those exact voltage numbers aren't critical to making the system work. Everything is line level so everything is OK.

You're right, that's exactly what I thought he meant. Still, I'm surprised that the voltage levels worked out OK. Maybe he just set the volume level at -6dB or something.


Michael Grant
12GB Green
080000266

As Tony said, I used the docking cage connectors, which are also female (hence the need for the male-male connector). These are supposed to be 4v. I used the front pair (no rear speakers in the Boxster by default). Hence no need to do anything special to remove or replace.

Volume is set permanently at 0db, I use the Becker volume control [hence- would be great to use the empeg rotary control for something else than volume without needing to press it]. Sounds fine, not too loud or distorted (though going over 0db into overdrive definitely does sound distorted). Sounds same volume as the radio or CD when switching to that, maybe the Becker compensates somehow?

Anyhow, sounds great to me :-)

I just did the install in my MY2000 996 which uses the same CDR220 head unit, and I unfortunately didn't have as carefree of an experience.

I got a noticeable amount of alternator whine at first, but after putting in a noise filter most of that went away.

Secondly, if you turn up the volume on the CDR220 (I have the empeg hooked up as an AUX device) to around 18 - 20, and pause playback on the empeg you can hear qutie a bit of noise. Not sure what's causing the actual noise itself.

Finally, I have to turn the volume on the CDR220 much louder with the empeg than I have to if I'm just playing a CD or listening to the radio. Any clues?

When you did your install did you notice that the wires empeg provided were way too short to reach from the bottom bay where you installed the unit to the top where you tap into the CDR220's power? I had to extend the wires to do my install.

I just completed my installation in my Boxster S with CDR-220 and DSP unit. Installation was relatively smooth. Results are great, no alternator whine or volume issues. I ended up adding about 18" extension to the ISO plug in order to have enough to feed down from the head unit and to have sufficient service loop to run both units outside their normal mounting position.

Only problem I had was the Empeg sleeve didn't want to go in, it was hanging up on some plastic nubs inside the mounting location. A little friendly persuasion didn't get it to go in, so I filed down the nubs just a little and then it went in. After the first time, it now goes in smoothly.

-gbeck

#080000480
18GB Red, Waiting for Amber screen...

re: gbeck's installation notes, I also had to get the installer to file down some small plastic mounts on the inside of the hole vacated by the cd shelf, to get the slide bay in. Sorry, I forgot that they had to do that during the install.

re: techman's notes, I noticed a slight alternator whine the last day or so. I've been on vacation for the past 10 days so haven't had chance to test this again. On the wire length, the installer used extra wires to do the tap into the wires from the CDR-220 plug to the empeg supplied DIN plug. They definitely weren't long enough to reach otherwise.

How did you handle the depth of the Empeg cage? If I slide it all the way in, the Empeg is inset too far. I need to pull it out 1/4" or so, but over time the cage will slide back in. I can probably bend some of the tabs to keep it from coming out, but it looks like the tabs are too deep to keep it from going all the way in. Do you remember what your installer did?

-gbeck

#080000480
18GB Red, Waiting for Amber screen...

The amount that it went in feels like the right amount - it doesn't feel in too far as yours does. The installer did bend the tabs to hold it in place, which seems to work well. Sorry - not much help :-(