#5553 - 20/10/1999 04:46
empeg unit add-on IO board
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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I am considering producing a PCB for an add-on IO system for the empeg, which would plug into the serial port. What I am posting for is to find out what people would like to see in such a product, and get an idea of how many would want to buy one if I did it.
This is not an official empeg Ltd product in any way, incidentally.
The current specification list is as follows:
Processor: PIC16C77, 8k EPROM, 368 bytes ram, 8 off 8-bit ADC ports, uart, I2C, SPI interfaces
4Kbytes non-volatile EEPROM
battery-backed RTC
optional 2-axis accelerometer
a number of 12-volt switch inputs
a number of 12-volt power control outputs
a number of TTL digital IO ports
possibly interface ports for various control stalks
Can anyone think of anything missing from this list?
There are a number of possibilities for producing and selling such a product, ie. circuit diagrams and photoplots for producing PCBs,
bare PCBs, PCBs and parts kits, or fully-built unit. What would people prefer? My preference would be bare PCBs plus programmed PICs, but this obviously depends on the ability of the purchaser to source components and build the board.
What I need to know is: (A) are there enough people interested in such a thing to make it worth doing, and (B) how much would they be prepared to pay.
Thoughts?
Patrick.
Opinions expressed in this email may contain up to 42% water by weight, and are mine. All mine.
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#5554 - 20/10/1999 06:37
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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RTC: Damn good idea, so long as the empeg can pick it up and display the time.
This would mean associated discovery and clock management software on the empeg.
One of the input channels of the ADC could do with an electret mike and a suitable pre-amp to be used for speed/ambient noise detection (to allow the playback volume to be jacked up).
Fused outputs would be a good idea, in spite of the semis being more likely to die before the fuses. Alternatively, relay-based outputs would be fine.
The digital I/O should (if at all possible) be opto-isolated.
If the control stalk interface was jumperable to select type, this might be useful. If you include the Renault control stalk i/f, you have at least one customer ;^)
A couple of properly isolated RS232 ports might be fun (scrolling rear window LED displays, etc.). Mind you though, this would need a bit of extra RAM to be much use; any chance of a bit more RAM?
A board design laid out to match a commonly available casing (Farnell? RS?) that could be used for a build-in would help.
Some control software on the empeg might be needed for basic functions, but I suspect you are looking for a hardware only package here - most of the smart cookies should be able to figure out nice things to do with it anyway ;^)
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#5555 - 20/10/1999 07:56
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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The idea is that the onboard peripherals would be driven by a VERY simple OS, which would basically just be a simple request/response type system. IE. send a command, read the result back, or send a command, then receive a data stream until further notice. The RTC could be set to send a time update every second, for instance.
At least one of the ADCs will have a preamp on, yes.
The 12V IO would be done in a robost manner. Outputs would be via the same sort of solid-state switch that the auxilary output on the empeg already uses, which is pretty bomb-proof anyway. Resettable fuses are a possibility, but they're a bit expensive. Relays are much too expensive.
Opto-isolated TTL I/O is, again, possible but adds to the price. A cheaper solution is a socketed, sacrificial buffer, and common sense.
The control stalk interface is subject to variation, since I'd need to get several different ones and try them. They're likely to be either a simple serial protocol, variable resistors, or switches, so the standard interfaces on the proposed board would handle them anyway.
The main serial port to the empeg would be normal RS232 line levels. There is only one hardware UART on the 16C77, but software ones could easily be implemented as long as the baud rate wasn't excessive. The processor would be run at around 20MHz, so it would handle up to, say 4800 baud for GPS systems, without much trouble.
Ram is more of a problem. The internal RAM of the 16C77 is limited, and for cost/simplicity reasons I'd like to stay with a single-chip solution. It would be possible to add an external static ram chip, but this would eat up about 20 of the 33 available IO lines.
I'm planning on using a standard eurocard (160mm x 100mm) board size, which would fit dozens of standard boxes, some of which are very nice even though quite cheap.
Patrick.
Opinions expressed in this email may contain up to 42% water by weight, and are mine. All mine.
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#5556 - 20/10/1999 08:55
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Excellent. Put me down for one, please, with a possible second to follow.
UPDATE: I neglected to answer regarding pricing; if I was going to buy, I think I would have a preference for a bare board, supplied with a pre-programmed PIC, for which I could source the components and build myself. This would let me choose which parts of the board's functionality I would actually use by only building in what I needed, giving slightly better control over the cost.
I have no idea what price a Euro card size board costs to produce these days - but a board plus a PIC? I'd happily pay up to about say, 20 quid ($30?). Have you any idea of what sort of price range you are pitching at?
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5557 - 20/10/1999 10:54
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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addict
Registered: 22/07/1999
Posts: 453
Loc: Florida
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Any possibility of making it a USB Master?
I know you'd need more than a PIC/Microcontroller, but It might be worth the extra cost if we could add on USB devices through the IO Board. Plenty of cheap microprocessors offer built-in USB support (ie. MPC823). It might not be feasible, but it's an idea...
Jason
_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."
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_~= Dearing =~_
Gettin' back into it thanks to slimrio!
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#5558 - 20/10/1999 11:29
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: Dearing]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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Unlikely in the extreme. USB mastering circuitry is very non-trivial, and the software is worse. There aren't, to my knowledge, any 'cheap' microcontrollers that implement USB master services. The MPC823 is a PPC chip, and requires quite a lot of support hardware. Most of the other such chips are similarly complex/expensive. A 16C77 is only a few dollars, and includes pretty much everything that is needed bar power-switching and preamps, etc, for the thing I have in mind. If I start looking into producing a PPC based system with USB mastering, etc, I'll end up redesigning the empegCAR main board again, which would take even longer and cost as much. Not really useful. Sorry.
Patrick.
Opinions expressed in this email may contain up to 42% water by weight, and are mine. All mine.
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#5559 - 20/10/1999 21:28
Exactly!
[Re: pca]
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journeyman
Registered: 18/08/1999
Posts: 90
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ USA
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What I told the empeg folks we needed. That single serial port just doesn't cut it for flexibility.
One thing I'd like to see added to your list (and you may be thinking along these lines already) is a pass-through serial port or the ability to have your bo act as a mux which would break out a data stream from the empeg into multiple serial ports.
Thanks! It's people like you that will make this empeg platform like no other.
=-Clarke
_______________________________
List 351, empeg 00045, 10gb, Amber
_________________________
______________________________________
Queue 351,
Mk I, 30GB
Mk II #60000022 80gb, Blue - docked
Mk2a, 80GB, Bruface, lighted buttons and dial
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#5560 - 21/10/1999 00:22
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board (+ethernet?)
[Re: pca]
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new poster
Registered: 06/07/1999
Posts: 10
Loc: UK
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Oddball thought; is there enough room for a simm socket on a Eurocard?
If so you could add a ucLinux simm (http://uclinux.org/simm/), this is a simm
with a processor running Linux, with 8MB ram, RS232 serial port, and 10BaseT ethernet.
Hence hook the RS232 up to the pic (or direct to the empeg), connect the
ucLinux simmm up to a network, and who needs usb :-)
It sounds rather too simple, so I'm sure I haven't thought of something!
Jim
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#5561 - 21/10/1999 02:08
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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journeyman
Registered: 19/09/1999
Posts: 97
Loc: Denmark, Kbh Ø
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What about getting empeg in on it and design an ver II of the radio with the strong*ARM 1100 + 1101 chip (maybe 1110 + 1111)
as the 11*1 chip has bild in USB host, two ps2, 2 serial, 1 parallel and a VGA (640,800,1024 in 8bit color)
the ver II coudt be using remote display and be placed in the back and there by ileminate the space problem (more space for the motherboad, HD and connections)
this model coudt be the fuctor in car system (WAP,GPS,GSM,SMS,VIDEO)
Mark
emaks rouls #10677
_________________________
Mark
wait for mk III with a USB Host/slave
(USB->GPS)(USB->Bluetooth)(USB->You name it)
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#5562 - 21/10/1999 05:10
Re: Exactly!
[Re: Clarke]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Err, seeing as it was Patrick & myself who designed the hardware in the first place, we're aware of the lack of "hacker-style" io on the empeg - but we couldn't put *everything* on there as it just jacks up the price for the vast majority of people who would never use the extra bits - hence the docking serial port.
Hugo
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#5563 - 24/11/1999 08:24
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Hi there Patrick, did you get anywhere with this? I am still interested...
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5564 - 25/11/1999 06:30
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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I have been so busy recently with the MkII PCB, plus some other OEM designs we've been working on, that I haven't
really had a chance to do much work on this board. I have pretty much decided to use the PIC16F877 microcontroller
instead, which has the same facilities as the 16C77, but is both noticeably cheaper and flash upgradeable. I'll finish
the design as soon as I have a chance.
Patrick
Opinions expressed in this email may contain up to 42% water by weight, and are mine. All mine.
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#5565 - 25/11/1999 06:56
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Excellent! Look forward to seeing the results of your work (when you have the time, of course).
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5566 - 18/12/1999 07:34
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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...any chance of adding a 12V--> 18V power convertor (to increase the empeg's base voltate), as well as a 18V --> 12V power convertor (for the amp's remote line)?
...proud to have one of the first Mark I units
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#5567 - 09/06/2000 07:44
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1525
Loc: Arizona
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I would kill for a data acquisition card that I could run cabling all through the car. Infinite possibilities with this one...
Any idea on the price range yet?
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#5568 - 09/06/2000 17:07
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: Tim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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You'll have to drag Patrick away from his kit car before getting this out of him :-)
Rob
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#5569 - 10/06/2000 11:46
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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I am trying to gently coax him away at this very moment 
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5570 - 12/06/2000 05:27
Re: Exactly!
[Re: altman]
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addict
Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
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Hugo writes: In reply to:
... but we couldn't put *everything* on there as it just jacks up the price for the vast majority of people who would never use the extra bits - hence the docking serial port.
My brother and I have been considering the possibility of a chain of devices for specific purposes that would chain along the serial connection. Each box would basically recognise commands sent to it, and would pass data back to the empeg in its own packaged format, and would pass along any data that wasn't meant for it (i.e. not interfering with any other box).
Now, to me this means communications protocol. We know that there are various ASCII characters already used - F for forward, B for back, or something like that, yeah? Well, let's say my GPS box always precedes its commands with "/G", and commands sent to it are always prefixed by "\G". The software running on the empeg can recognise these characters and send the appropriate command to the relevant daemon; likewise, the daemon can send a message to the box easily enough.
The beauty of this system, IM(NSH)O, is that you can have a virtually unlimited number of boxes (as long as there's a modicum of control on the protocol side) and they don't interfere. Nor does the empeg need a separate interface for each box that someone might plug in. This, to my mind, means that the radio controller could even be one of these boxes, just plugged in through a standardised interface (and with aerial in and audio out to the correct inputs on the empeg).
Or has someone already thought of this?
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550
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#5571 - 12/06/2000 07:35
Re: Exactly!
[Re: PaulWay]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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For this you do need special serial hardware so you can use it in multidrop mode - this is what a lot of car changer busses do.
I did come up with an actual protocol to run over the serial port when docked - the single character commands were just a debug thing which people started to use. The protocol is much more extensible and rather more useful :)
Hugo
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#5572 - 16/06/2000 21:42
Re: Exactly!
[Re: altman]
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addict
Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
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In reply to:
For this you do need special serial hardware so you can use it in multidrop mode - this is what a lot of car changer busses do.
Is that because you're running the one set of wires all the way along? I would have thought it would be better to have each unit with separate in and out ports so that each unit is acting like a local relay.
In reply to:
I did come up with an actual protocol to run over the serial port when docked - the single character commands were just a debug thing which people started to use. The protocol is much more extensible and rather more useful :)
I have to say that the enormous usefullness of this is enough to make me think all third party projects should put themselves on hold and sort out the specs of this. Yeah, we end up with a bus similar to all the other busses around (I wonder if we could have fiber... :-). But it's open API, open protocol, and that means it's much more flexible and much more usable than all the other proprietary car bus standards out there.
Think, people, think!
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550
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#5573 - 02/08/2000 20:38
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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new poster
Registered: 02/08/2000
Posts: 16
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Totally cool. I'd happily pay $60 for a PCB with a programmed PIC!
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#5574 - 09/08/2000 06:23
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: UncleSocks]
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journeyman
Registered: 06/07/2000
Posts: 91
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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Ok, you got me interested but could someone please enlighten me what it is that you are talking about..? :) I think I have a picture about it but I just wanted to be sure before I start thinking of the possibilities..
Antti 'Amarth' Luostarinen
#14229
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#5575 - 13/09/2000 16:46
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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journeyman
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 50
Loc: CALI
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*bump*
sort of intrested in seeing how far this idea got, ould be awesome if we could add on other componets such as gps and what not to directly interface with teh empeg. naybe even work out a cell based web like tracking system (ie im at work hop on the web issue a command to my empeg to have it fireup and start palying by the time i get to it.. or even sms message to my phone to do the same.. just kidna intrested in seeing the possiblitiys of an add on brain or so (i am not a guru..yet.. so i cant and wont recite off micro controller and chip #'s)
Im as confused as a babby in a topless bar...
_________________________
Im as confused as a baby in a topless bar...
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#5576 - 04/10/2000 07:14
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Given that Patrick seems to be mooching the boards again , does this mean that he is reading this and may now have time to try his hand at this I/O board?  One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5577 - 04/10/2000 18:30
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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Given that Patrick seems to be mooching the boards again , does this mean that he is reading this and may now have time to try his hand at this I/O board? I've been very busy over the last few months, what with empeg related work and various medical problems (I won't go into details. Thank me for this  ), so I haven't had a lot of free time to spend on the IO board. However, I have been thinking about it, and the design is getting more universal. This is tech speak for insanely complicated. At some point in the relatively near future, when the current round of empeg designs dies down a little, I hope to come up with a firm set of specs for the thing, and I'll post them here for comment. patrick Opinions expressed in this email may contain up to 42% water by weight, and are mine. All mine.
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#5578 - 04/05/2001 16:49
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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PATRICK! One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5579 - 04/05/2001 17:26
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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ROB!!
Opinions expressed in this email may contain up to 42% water by weight, and are mine. All mine.
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#5580 - 04/05/2001 19:50
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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enthusiast
Registered: 21/08/1999
Posts: 381
Loc: Northern Ireland
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MOTHER!!!!
(oh, hang on, this ain't the Freud BBS!! sorry!)
Geoff
---- -------
Got one of the first Mark 2 empegs...
_________________________
Geoff
---- -------
Mk1 Blue - was 4GB, now 16GB
Mk2 Red - was 12GB, now 60GB
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#5581 - 05/05/2001 05:16
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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enthusiast
Registered: 10/10/2000
Posts: 350
Loc: Copenhagen SW, Denmark
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(In order of importance)
- GPS-interface
- Keyboard interface
- Serial Out to a "dumb" display
- Cabriolet up/down detector
- CD-changer in
- CD-changer out
- Mobile phone serial port interface (or even Bluetooth interface! ((Yes, I have a bluetooth enabled phone))
- HAM radio TNC-interface, APRS?
- An interface that will produce a "beep" on the empeg-audio
- Ambient noice detector with volume or equalizer change
I'd pay at least 100$ for all this functionality :-)
I'd prefer a kit with all parts, but I could do the soldiering myself.
Marius (Escort Cab + Mark II)
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#5582 - 05/05/2001 05:27
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: jane]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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I'd prefer a kit with all parts, but I could do the soldiering myself.
Ah, the military is interested!
Patrick.
Opinions expressed in this email may contain up to 42% water by weight, and are mine. All mine.
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#5583 - 05/05/2001 05:37
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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enthusiast
Registered: 10/10/2000
Posts: 350
Loc: Copenhagen SW, Denmark
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Hm. I seem to be sensing a mocking of non-native-english-speakers on this board... Not the way to sell your product...
Marius
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#5584 - 05/05/2001 07:41
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: jane]
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old hand
Registered: 12/01/2000
Posts: 1079
Loc: Dallas, TX
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I don't think hes mocking you, I think hes trying to tell you that your requests are beyond the scope of what he is willing to do. Im pretty sure what you are looking for would cost a lot more than $100.
Sean
#78
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#5585 - 05/05/2001 09:27
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: Terminator]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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No, he was mocking him. Good-naturedly. I don't think he meant any offense, he just wanted to call attention to the funny typo.
(In case you didn't catch it, Marius typed "Soldiering" instead of "Soldering".)
Personally, I think there's a lot in common between the two... ___________
Tony Fabris
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#5586 - 05/05/2001 10:05
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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(In case you didn't catch it, Marius typed "Soldiering" instead of "Soldering".)
As somebody already said, Dyslexics of all countries, untie! (or something)
Cheers! Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#5587 - 05/05/2001 14:32
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: jane]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Chill it, out it was a joke. I've taken MUCH worse from Patrick.
Rob
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#5588 - 05/05/2001 19:50
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: rob]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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Chill it, out it was a joke. I've taken MUCH worse from Patrick.
And given it out! Although I think I'm ahead on points and style.
I don't deliberately set out to offend people, but sometimes my sense of humour
is somewhat quicker than the eye can follow.
Patrick Opinions expressed in this email may contain up to 42% water by weight, and are mine. All mine.
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#5589 - 06/05/2001 02:14
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: Terminator]
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enthusiast
Registered: 10/10/2000
Posts: 350
Loc: Copenhagen SW, Denmark
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OK, I get the point :-) I had forgotte nabout it already ;-)
If you look closely, most of my suggestions may be summed up as "Serial port multiplexer".
Marius
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#5590 - 06/05/2001 19:10
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: Geoff]
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addict
Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
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Dr. Scott! (sorry.. i had to)
12gig red mk2 -- 080000125
_________________________
80gig red mk2 -- 080000125
(No, I don't actually hate Alan Cox)
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#5591 - 15/06/2001 04:19
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: jane]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/09/2000
Posts: 313
Loc: Belgium/Holland
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Add a Universal radar detector to this and you could probably sell 10 times as many empegs in Holland. My god the Dutch really love their speed traps don't they ? Thank god my beamer has 4 disc brakes with some aggressive speed reduction properties. I must have dodged about 12 of them in the last month.
Sorry just thinking out loud.
Hans
Mk2 - Blue - 080000431
Attachments
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#5592 - 15/06/2001 04:45
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: EngelenH]
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enthusiast
Registered: 10/10/2000
Posts: 350
Loc: Copenhagen SW, Denmark
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I wish for some kind of software that will interface with my
GPS. I can do the work of entering all the speed-traps in a
database, and then the Empeg will make some sound when I
approach one of the pre-programmed locations.
Marius (Escort Cab + Mark II)
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#5593 - 15/06/2001 04:58
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: EngelenH]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Tell me about it - just been hit again for being 3 km over the limit 
If only Patrick would get started on the box! I am thinking about using an off the shelf PC104 CPU to do this with a piggy back multi-port serial. Expensive and over the top for what is needed, but I have no schematic capure software to even get a design started. One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5594 - 15/06/2001 06:44
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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addict
Registered: 22/07/1999
Posts: 453
Loc: Florida
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I did design one (Using I2C for multi-drop serial), but never built it because I knew I wouldn't be able to rewrite the linux serial driver to send a one-byte address before each serial communication session. I'm alright at coding C/C++, but not that good any more.
Jason
_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."
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_~= Dearing =~_
Gettin' back into it thanks to slimrio!
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#5595 - 15/06/2001 06:56
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/09/2000
Posts: 313
Loc: Belgium/Holland
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Odd things is they have snapped me like 20 times and so far I only ever got one ticket. For 60 guilders, cost them more to make it up and send it to Belgium ..
Better keep my fingers crossed I guess.
Anyways radar detector or not. I am obviously interested in one of these boards too.
Hans
Mk2 - Blue - 080000431
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Mk2
This message will selfdestruct in 5 seconds to prevent reproduction.
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#5596 - 15/06/2001 08:37
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: EngelenH]
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old hand
Registered: 12/08/2000
Posts: 702
Loc: Netherlands
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90% of the detectors are dummys. I admit I am a regular speed-offender, but I wouldn't want a detector in my car. I hate people braking for no apparent reason; it's not nice at 150 km/h. My experience with traffic police is the same. I once passed a motorcycle-agent while speeding 15 km/h on the A2. I didn't lower speed and he tailed me for about 20 km. After that a beamer (was that you, Hans?)  passed by and I lost him. Policemen aren't out to bugger you, they just want safe and coordinated traffic-infrastructure... Frank van Gestel
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Frank van Gestel
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#5597 - 15/06/2001 09:03
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: fvgestel]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/09/2000
Posts: 313
Loc: Belgium/Holland
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If it was a black one with belgian plates .. yep. I drive over the A2 daily.
Obviously you have met other cops then me. I must say they are much more polite in Holland. I once had a cop tell me he was going to handcuff me and throw me in the river. Unless I told him what he wanted. I told he obviously saw too much television in his spare time. Anyways, I really hate those speed traps. I really believe there are better things they could do then this. Solve some traffic jams is one of them. I can not believe how silly and bad they are in Holland. And often totally without any good reason whatsoever.
Oh well
Hans
Mk2 - Blue - 080000431
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Mk2
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#5598 - 15/06/2001 09:24
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: EngelenH]
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old hand
Registered: 12/08/2000
Posts: 702
Loc: Netherlands
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Solve some traffic jams is one of them. I can not believe how silly and bad they are in Holland. And often totally without any good reason whatsoever.
Yeah, they had the stupid idea to raise taxes on cars and gas to reduce the use of cars and traffic-jams. Instead, the inflation rates have gone higher than ever before and traffic-jams got even longer.
They've come up with a new policy since the beginning of this year: Every piece of highway where the average speed is below 70km/h will be added an extra lane. So I guess that within a few years Holland will look like LA, with 8-lane highways...
BTW, traffic-jams can be just as bad in Belgium. Try to drive to Sun Brussels a few time and you'll see what I mean...
Frank van Gestel
_________________________
Frank van Gestel
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#5599 - 15/06/2001 18:55
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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I have in fact done quite a bit of design on this thing, as it was in some ways an outgrowth of a turbine ECU I've been playing with for quite some time. However, at the moment I'm up to my armpits in a horribly complex although very cute board that I'm being paid quite well for, and obviously filthy lucre takes priority over cool (Oi! That lucre is filthy! Take it away and bring me some clean lucre, immediately!)
That said, the current project is in fact very cool indeed, and if I didn't have the NDA I'm under, you lot would probably all want one.
pca Opinions expressed in this email may contain up to 42% water by weight, and are mine. All mine.
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#5600 - 16/06/2001 00:42
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: fvgestel]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/09/2000
Posts: 313
Loc: Belgium/Holland
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Well yeah Brussels can be bad, I could not get past 220 km/h on the ring last night. Not sure if it was the traffic or the RPM-limiter that was kicking on in the 5th gear that was causing it.
Seriously though, brussels is often a mess. But the rest of Belgium is usually pretty ok. Bar any road works which are often far far worse then in Holland.
Still if the Dutch could just learn to shift back in the right lane a tad sooner then some (most?) of them do now that would really make all the difference.
Hans
Mk2 - Blue - 080000431
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Mk2
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#5601 - 16/06/2001 00:43
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 1765
Loc: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
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Let me guess!
It's an MP3 player based on the empeg hardware that can also operate your turbine?
Murray 06000047
I don't think, therefore I am not.
_________________________
--
Murray
I What part of 'no' don't you understand?
Is it the 'N', or the 'Zero'?
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#5602 - 16/06/2001 01:20
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/09/2000
Posts: 313
Loc: Belgium/Holland
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Oh, are we hooking empegs up to the inboard car electronics now ?
Hans
Mk2 - Blue - 080000431
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Mk2
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#5603 - 16/06/2001 05:40
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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at the moment I'm up to my armpits in a horribly complex although very cute board
Hmm, you should have mentioned how busy you were before we killed an afternoon torturing jelly babies with jet engines, H2SO4, NO3Na and various toolshop equipment. (Don't ask).
Anyway, when did an NDA ever stop you?
Rob
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#5604 - 16/06/2001 06:16
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: rob]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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Hmm, you should have mentioned how busy you were before we killed an afternoon torturing jelly babies with jet engines, H2SO4, NO3Na and various toolshop equipment. (Don't ask).
I was on a break.
Anyway, when did an NDA ever stop you?
Wrong way around. Other people's NDA's don't stop me finding things out that I'm not supposed to know.
pca Opinions expressed in this email may contain up to 42% water by weight, and are mine. All mine.
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#5605 - 16/06/2001 06:20
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: rob]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/09/2000
Posts: 313
Loc: Belgium/Holland
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Hmm, you should have mentioned how busy you were before we killed an afternoon torturing jelly babies with jet engines, H2SO4, NO3Na and various toolshop equipment. (Don't ask).
Why do I suddenly get this urge to apply for a job with you guys, any job .. even janitor .. I never get to do that here.
Anyway, when did an NDA ever stop you?
And if that is not a clear eufimisme for 'go ahead, don't keep people in suspense and tell them what you are tinkering with' I dunno.
Hans
Mk2 - Blue - 080000431
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Mk2
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#5606 - 16/06/2001 16:57
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: EngelenH]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/03/2001
Posts: 202
Loc: Denver, CO
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Oh, are we hooking empegs up to the inboard car electronics now ?
I remember reading a post a while back about someone attempting to hook up the empeg to the in car computer. Then getting all sorts of nifty read outs from the car. I think it would be awesome myself. However, I don't have the knowledge or know how to do such a thing Damien Heiser
RioCar 12GB Blue SN: 120001043
_________________________
- Damien
- Mk2a 24G Blue SN: 120001043
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#5607 - 17/06/2001 01:50
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: EngelenH]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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We don't tend to do that kind of thing at empeg either - if anything gets blown up it's usually just our music server (it's cursed).
Patrick isn't employed by empeg (and never has been) - he's one of those free spirit working from home types. That means he can poor acid over unsuspecting confectionary whenever he feels like it.
Oh, and the NDA is with another company so I can't really influence it!
Rob
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#5608 - 17/06/2001 01:52
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: xanatos]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Hmmmmmmm, now there's an idea
Should be pretty easy with the Supra - an in-dash digital readout for the ECU was actually a factory option.
Rob
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#5609 - 18/06/2001 00:42
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: rob]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/09/2000
Posts: 313
Loc: Belgium/Holland
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Well, can't be that hard really. Okay maybe it can but not with the talent you people have over there. Anyone who has ever seen his BMW hooked up to the computer over at the dealer/workshop will know what neat things you can get from the inboard electronics on some cars. And hooking it up is often a no-brainer with most of them having a clean and ready connector for just that sort of thing already. The only problem would be catering for the different brands and possebilities. I doubt (though am not sure) that there is a standard for this stuff as far as data retrieval and formatting goes. Why can't these people just use snmp and distribute a mib for it ? Hans Mk2 - Blue - 080000431
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Mk2
This message will selfdestruct in 5 seconds to prevent reproduction.
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#5610 - 18/06/2001 00:56
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: EngelenH]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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... because I doubt you could build a client application that could handle dynamically conneced SNMP traps. Not for a garage environment.
There is a standard for ECU data set by the SAE (US) called OBD II. This defines the exchange protocols, data types, and content messages for the data connector. Normally the data is sent "Read Only" and is diagnostic and performance related. However, there is also a "Read/Write" category which is supported by some car ECUs (similar to non-volatile "Mode Page" parameters used in SCSI devices) which allows a monitoring client computer to set permanent parameter values. Depending on how the individual ECU is designed, this could be (for example) used for tuning data, or ignition maps, or fuelling maps.
I think you may have read this post from me as I was waiting for Patrick's board here (unsubtle hint) before I did anything further. I am currently working on my own ECU for my Mini which a scratch CPU design based on a Motorola processor. Most of the peripheral bits are going to be BOSCH (ironic given what happened to the MIni brand ). My idea was to try and write my dataport to comply to OBD II and feed it into the serial port of the empeg while docked so that I could run a display terminal on the screen of the empeg without having to carry a portable computer around with me. One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5611 - 18/06/2001 01:19
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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old hand
Registered: 12/08/2000
Posts: 702
Loc: Netherlands
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here is another thread on the subject
Frank van Gestel
_________________________
Frank van Gestel
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#5612 - 18/06/2001 10:34
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: EngelenH]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 356
Loc: NORWAY
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Well there is a standard on many cars called OBDII.
Have a look at http://www.obd-2.com/ they sell very cheap OBDII->RS232
converters which gives you the possibility to send byte commands to your
vehicle and it will respond.
They also have some software if you don't want to write your own.
TommyE
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#5613 - 18/06/2001 14:59
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: fvgestel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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90% of the detectors are dummys ... I wouldn't want a detector in my car.
I have one of the 10% that are pretty smart, the best radar detector on the market IMHO: The Valentine One.
It can track up to eight different signals simultaneously, X Band, K Band, KA Band, Laser, or any combination thereof, and tell me which type of signal, how many of them there are, what direction each one coming from, and how far away each one is.
I routinely pick up radar signals that are around the corner, over the hill, and more than a mile away. My detecter is so good that when it signals, I don't slow down -- I evaluate the situation to decide whether I even need to be concerned.
The only risk I have from radar is the "Instant On" variety in which the policeman hides and only turns the unit on when the potential offender is within range. Where I live, most police cruise the highway with their radar units turned on all the time, so I know where they are while they are still a mile or more away.
Policemen aren't out to bugger you, they just want safe and coordinated traffic-infrastructure...
[Soapbox] Maybe where you live... in the U.S., speeding fines are a significant source of municipal revenue. The insurance companies love it because it is an easily quantifiable violation that allows them to justify rate increases. The American public has been brainwashed with the concept that "Speed Kills" for so long that few people even question the idea, even though a more apt motto might be "Speed Differentials Kill". If our police wanted a "safe and coordinated traffic-infrastructure" they would start writing tickets to people who drive in the left lane when not passing, and take serious measures to get the drunks off the road. (Last year a drunk driver killed a pedestrian in Anchorage -- the driver had had SIX previous DWI convictions.) [/Soapbox]
tanstaafl.
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#5614 - 18/06/2001 15:11
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Regarding your soapbox, Doug:
I think that excessive speed can be a problem if the drivers aren't attentive. There are some speeders who are poor drivers and don't pay close attention to what they're doing. In those instances, the speed contributes to the amount of damage they do in an accident.
On the other hand, a fast driver who is attentive enough to avoid cops (i.e., he is constantly scanning the vehicles around him and paying close attention to onramps) is also a safer driver than many of the slow ones.
I like the idea that drivers should be afraid of cops catching them for speeding. Keeps a nice system whereby most folks drive a little more safely, but a few attentive speeders still get away with speeding. Those that aren't attentive get caught.
If only people in this country would keep right, then everything would be perfect... ___________
Tony Fabris
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#5615 - 18/06/2001 15:21
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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I don't like police enough that I drive the speed limit to avoid contact with then it makes everone else mad but I don't care I always have someone driving too close behind me
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Matt
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#5617 - 18/06/2001 16:50
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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old hand
Registered: 12/08/2000
Posts: 702
Loc: Netherlands
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90% of the detectors are dummys ... I wouldn't want a detector in my car.
I have one of the 10% that are pretty smart, the best radar detector on the market IMHO: The Valentine One.
Oops, my fault, I ment :
90% of the camera's are dummys ... I wouldn't want a detector in my car.
They rotate the camera's constantly... The flashes work though...
I am not someone who is racing through the neighbourhood; within city limits, I mostly obey the rules. When I speed, it is rarely because I am in a hurry. I just think a higher speed makes my ride more enjoyable. That's the main reason why I don't have one. Using a detector feels like sticking your middlefinger to your highschool teacher when he's standing with his back to you, though you know it would have felt much better if you did it in his face...
I don't hope I start a flame-war now
My experience with the police is that you can go 135 where you are allowed 120, and no attempt is made to pull you over. Worst case is a policeman waving to slow down. People getting pulled over are excessive speeders ( 150+ ), emergency-lane drivers, bumper-glue-ons, slow traffic ( 70- ), ghostdrivers, drunks, bikers without helmets, trucks with cattle, overloaded caravans, etc, etc...
I'm leaving for vacation in a few weeks, so I'll have the chance to have a few hours of allowed speeding in the south of germany if the weather is good. Last year,when it was raining, we were passed by a mercedes which was going 160+.
A few kilometers ahead his car crashed in a concrete pillar. Not a pretty sight...
Well, all I wanted to say is that I'm glad I'm living in this small, liberal country called the netherlands. There aren't many places in the world where you can ask a policeman for directions while smokin a reefer
Frank van Gestel
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Frank van Gestel
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#5618 - 18/06/2001 17:27
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I have a V1 and that thing is great!
Calvin
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#5619 - 18/06/2001 20:48
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: fvgestel]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Well, all I wanted to say is that I'm glad I'm living in this small, liberal country called the netherlands. There aren't many places in the world where you can ask a policeman for directions while smokin a reefer
I agree, as long as you do that on foot Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#5620 - 18/06/2001 23:23
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: bonzi]
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old hand
Registered: 12/08/2000
Posts: 702
Loc: Netherlands
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Of course; he won't be so tolerant otherwise...
Frank van Gestel
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Frank van Gestel
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#5621 - 19/06/2001 00:09
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: fvgestel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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FRANK! I am soooooo SHOCKED!
You would ask a policeman for directions? What did your parents teach you? One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5622 - 19/06/2001 00:12
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Shouldn't that be correct lane, Tony? On this side of the Atlantic that means you are advocating exactly what you just proselytised! One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5623 - 19/06/2001 04:04
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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member
Registered: 26/09/2000
Posts: 194
Loc: Druten, The Netherlands
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Ok, enough said about speeding, let's get back to the topic.
Edwin de Vaan
mk2 rev.7 Trillian # 080000263 6Gb blue/red
_________________________
[white]______________[/white]
Edwin de Vaan aka FLaSHmAStER
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#5624 - 19/06/2001 08:17
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/09/2000
Posts: 313
Loc: Belgium/Holland
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In reply to:
I think you may have read this post from me as I was waiting for Patrick's board here (unsubtle hint) before I did anything further. I am currently working on my own ECU for my Mini which a scratch CPU design based on a Motorola processor. Most of the peripheral bits are going to be BOSCH (ironic given what happened to the MIni brand ). My idea was to try and write my dataport to comply to OBD II and feed it into the serial port of the empeg while docked so that I could run a display terminal on the screen of the empeg without having to carry a portable computer around with me.
Okay, now you are starting to scare me ... You're not kidding are you ? Hans Mk2 - Blue - 080000431
_________________________
Mk2
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#5625 - 19/06/2001 14:16
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: edwin]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Well we have to keep a thread dating from October 1999 alive somehow!
(Patrick, how long you gonna keep everyone waiting for this toy??)
Rob
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#5626 - 20/06/2001 01:19
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: EngelenH]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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No, I'm not joking at all. I have just tested the CPU core section of the ECU and I am starting on the Input sensor circuitry. I intend to put it in the car and just read air mass, ignition, throttle position, etc. to see that it can interrogate sensors OK, then it's going to be rigged to actually control the ignition, but not the carburetion. I don't know enough about fuelling strategies and even less about the fuel demands of this car, so injection management will be a while coming. I have, however, got a 4-coil ignition pack wired and tested, and I am getting a special injector fuel rail started based on Weber manifolds (the only ones small enough to go onto the Mini intake side).
When it all comes together (no hurry, I'm patient) I have no way of tuning the fuelling other than by tweaking tables of injector openings for different RPM; normally, this would be automated and done on a rolling road, but I have neither the money nor facilities to do this, so I am going to have to spend a long time doing it manually across all engine speeds and loads. The best way to do it is get the fuelling roughly right, then drive the car and record what the lambda sensor in the exhaust pipe says about the mixture. Recording means some sort of data dump, and the board has a number of I/O ports available. Instead of carrying a portable around to capture it and having to deal with batteries and all that rubbish, I thought that the empeg would be a good alternative. Hence, a small background daemon process that runs and just sniffs OBDII data, and dumps it to disk. There is the obvious problem of the disks being mounted read-only during normal operation which I have yet to deal with. Additionally, if I did want to use the empeg as a control/monitoring/tuning device, then I would have to have control of the display (for gauges, counters, so forth) something I haven't investigated too deeply. I have been tracking what people have been doing here on the board, and when the time comes, I'm sure there will be help available.
One other early experiment which is waiting for an I/O board is a set of accelerometers and suspension extension potentiometers which I want to use to look at how the car is cornering and tracking, etc. This was going to be via the A/D on Patrick's board. However, since I have a fair bit of extra capacity for unsupervised A/D on my ECU, I may just connect them up to the ECU and feed the data back through OBDII as well. Think about that - your empeg being able to display your acceleration in g, show a graph of your suspension movement (selectable by wheel of course) alongside your average fuel consumption....
Whatever floats your boat, dudes.
Really scared yet? You should be - it will be on Dutch roads sometime
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5627 - 20/06/2001 01:32
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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 Yeah, Patrick, how long you gonna keep everyone waiting for this toy? One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5628 - 20/06/2001 06:23
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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Yeah, Patrick, how long you gonna keep everyone waiting for this toy?
It's NOT a toy!
Hopefully, once I've got the current set of PCBs off to have some prototypes made for the xxxxx Project, (which allows xxxxxxx to xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx, which is pretty cool), I'll have some spare time and can finish off the empeg expansion board/turbine ECU board/general purpose microcontroller board.
And it will have accelerometers on as well, since it needs them for the autonomous flying robot function subset anyway.
Patrick.
Opinions expressed in this email may contain up to 42% water by weight, and are mine. All mine.
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#5629 - 20/06/2001 08:50
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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And will this system also monitor how hard you're pedaling the Mini? ___________
Tony Fabris
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#5630 - 20/06/2001 09:18
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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If you look closely at this picture, you can just see the little feet sticking out under the driver's side floor. In the background, Rob V. is holding his nose in disgust after someone farted. In the foreground, the Grim Reaper (TM) is about to harvest two innocent souls as they root in the boot of the Laguna for sausage rolls that have rolled under the back seat.
It were a good day out, it were. One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#5631 - 21/06/2001 01:54
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: schofiel]
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enthusiast
Registered: 29/09/2000
Posts: 313
Loc: Belgium/Holland
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I think I suddenly start to understand why so often cars are burning by the side of the road in Holland. On the 50 kilometers alone I drive every day to work I see l like 8 scorch marks as remaining evidence of such an event. JUST KIDDING !! (Not about the scorch marks though) To be honest, it sounds like an awesome project. I hope I get to see it firsthand someday. I am not much of a mechanic (not for cars that is, though I used to do some mean motor cycle mods in my teens) but never the less this defenitly peaks my interest. Keep me (us?) posted I say. Cheers, Hans Mk2 - Blue - 080000431
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Mk2
This message will selfdestruct in 5 seconds to prevent reproduction.
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#5632 - 07/02/2002 20:22
Re: Exactly!
[Re: PaulWay]
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enthusiast
Registered: 14/09/2000
Posts: 363
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Here's a new twist on an old thread.
Rather than require that each piece of hardware be customized to some new protocol, how about using something like this: http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/x356.html
With a supported piece of hardware, this would let you connect up many unmodified serial devices (GPS reciever, OBD-II adapter, laptop, etc) while still leaving the built-in serial port free for connection to a Sony (or other brand) stalk.
I guess the real question is: can we convince mlord to add module support to hijack?
(the other modules I'd like to load are IrCOMM and IrOBEX drivers)
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#5633 - 08/02/2002 06:10
Re: Exactly!
[Re: TheAmigo]
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old hand
Registered: 30/07/2000
Posts: 879
Loc: Germany (Ruhrgebiet)
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This is about the top misunderstanding about the empeg:
THE EMPEG OR RIOCAR DOES NOT, REPEAT: DOES NOT, SUPPORT USB MASTER.
You can only connect the riocar/empeg to USB master devices, like a PC or MAC. You can not connect USB slave devices, like additional serial ports, network adaptors or printers to it.
cu,
sven
_________________________
proud owner of MkII 40GB & MkIIa 60GB both lit by God and HiJacked by Lord
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#5634 - 08/02/2002 09:32
Re: Exactly!
[Re: smu]
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enthusiast
Registered: 14/09/2000
Posts: 363
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Well, that's unfortunate.
There's still other alternatives. Some terminal servers come with device drivers that give you a /dev entry that maps to a serial port on the termserv via ethernet. I think this is getting more expensive, but still could be an option.
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#5635 - 11/02/2002 01:11
Re: Exactly!
[Re: TheAmigo]
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stranger
Registered: 31/01/2002
Posts: 33
Loc: Sunny Isles Beach, FL
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TINI could be a good option for additional I/O. It's an embedded platform that is the size of a SIMM and runs Java. Fairly inexpensive, provides ethernet, IP, serial, and some other goodies.
http://www.ibutton.com/TINI/
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#5636 - 11/02/2002 17:02
Re: Exactly!
[Re: Bryce]
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enthusiast
Registered: 14/09/2000
Posts: 363
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Sounds like an interesting idea. With features such as "Wide operating temperature range, -20°C to +70°C" it sounds well suited to staying in the car too. I was thinking $50 was a bit expensive but considering all the IO it's got, you wouldn't need very many:
- 10 Base-T Ethernet for networking
- Dual serial ports
- Dual 1-Wire® net interfaces
- Dual CAN (Controller Area Network) controllers
- 2-wire synchronous serial bus
- General-purpose digital I/O
The dual serial ports could be used one for GPS and one for OBD-II. You'd have to write a some code to transfer the data via the network... maybe via HTTP. I'm not sure what type of approach to take on this. This would have the advantage of not needing custom drivers like what I was thinking about.
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#5637 - 11/02/2002 22:48
Re: Exactly!
[Re: Bryce]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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TINI could be a good option for additional I/O
One downside to these is that they seem to only be producing small batches as development systems. I ordered one about three months ago and still have not received it. But, since I already have one coming (in theory) and don't really have a use planned for it yet, integration with the empeg could be cool.
-Mike
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#5638 - 13/02/2002 18:10
Re: Exactly!
[Re: mcomb]
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member
Registered: 29/01/2002
Posts: 109
Loc: United Kingdom
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hmmmm,
this board thingie sounds interesting!
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#5639 - 13/02/2002 22:46
Re: Exactly!
[Re: mcomb]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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I ordered one about three months ago and still have not received it.
Well it just showed up yesterday. I like it, it is cool. I haven't had much time to play with it yet, but it does seem like it would make a neat expansion board to the empeg.
-Mike
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#5640 - 18/04/2002 04:08
Re: Exactly!
[Re: mcomb]
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enthusiast
Registered: 07/01/2002
Posts: 339
Loc: Squamish, BC
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Any news on Patrick's version of this? Is anything likely to appear now that the empeg car is no longer in production/being sold?
Cheers,
A.
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#5641 - 20/04/2002 00:58
Re: Exactly!
[Re: snoopstah]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Any news on Patrick's version of this? Is anything likely to appear now that the empeg car is no longer in production/being sold?
If you read Patricks announcement of trying to get some tuner modules made, he talked about changing the tuner design so that it provided analog and digital outputs within the tuner itself.
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#5642 - 20/04/2002 04:00
Re: Exactly!
[Re: andy]
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enthusiast
Registered: 07/01/2002
Posts: 339
Loc: Squamish, BC
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Ahh, nice... I have no desperate desire for a tuner, so I kinda skipped over that thread... but if it did (some of) the features of this, I would definately buy one.
Cheers,
A.
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#5643 - 08/05/2002 18:22
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: pca]
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addict
Registered: 03/03/2002
Posts: 687
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
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I saw these noted, and add my vote to them:
1. Dumb serial display (RS232, etc..)
2. Auto ambient noise to adjust loudness of music.. (Of course, the tricky part is trying to make it NOT listen to itself to try and raise the volumn over itself..)
Me.
_________________________
Mike 'Fox' Morrey
128BPM@124MPH. Love it!
2002 BRG Mini Cooper
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#5644 - 10/05/2002 08:50
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: foxtrot_xray]
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member
Registered: 22/12/2001
Posts: 189
Loc: UK
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If Im right in thinking what you mean by RS232 display, was there not an LCD option on the empeg main board? So you could have LCD (character) and VFD?
Does the CPU have proper LCD TFT style interfacing ability outta the box?
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#5645 - 11/05/2002 05:04
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: thenominous]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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The CPU has some LCD interfacing out of the box; however, full 16-bit TFT isn't possible because LCD data lines 8-15 are multiplexed onto other GPIO lines (which we use on the empeg as GPIOs).
There is a pad-out next to the CPU which will take a 0.5mm pitch connector that can be bought from farnell - this contains all the LCD signals available, namely - Pixel clock, line clock, frame clock, AC bias (valid signal for TFT I think), and LCD D0-D7.
The VFD uses D0 only, and we run in a 4bpp mode. In theory you could add 3 slave displays to the empeg by using D1, D2 and D3 - all the other signals would be common
Hugo
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#5646 - 12/05/2002 10:08
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: altman]
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enthusiast
Registered: 04/02/2002
Posts: 277
Loc: Massachussetts
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So what you'resaying isss....
.... we could have 4 separate displays on 1 empeg ?
or we could connect some other (bigger / wider) display to it ?
Not sure what all you said means...
_________________________
__________
davecosta
Hijacked 60GB MKIIa 2.0b13
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#5647 - 12/05/2002 15:10
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: dcosta]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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With an extra PSU and software work you could have 4 displays on a single empeg, yes.
Bigger/wider is more hassle, but still possible. The player wouldn't drive a higher res display though, not as-is.
Hugo
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#5648 - 14/05/2002 00:52
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: altman]
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stranger
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 26
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So, we can connect a remote LCD display to the Empeg by installing a connector to the motherboard inside the unit? What type of display do I look for? Do you have a specific one that you could recommend? Is the hardware connection all that is necessary, or does it also need to be enabled through software? Would this be the same resolution as the VFD? And could a backlit display be used? I am highly interested in this feature, and would appreciate any details. Thanks
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#5649 - 14/05/2002 02:03
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: CrashLander]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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I didn't say remote; the lines are 3.3v logic, run pretty fast, and come directly from the CPU. One slip and you could toast the CPU. There's also no software support for it.
However, you could in theory put something like a 320x240 16 greyscale passive matrix display on this connector.
We've never tried it. However, the Rio Central uses the same(ish) CPU and a 480x320 16 greyscale LCD and that works just fine.
Hugo
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#5650 - 15/05/2002 01:59
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: altman]
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stranger
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 26
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oh, yeah. I forgot the lines run directly from the CPU. One wrong move and you're porked - uh... I mean your CPU is toast. Wasn't there a way to buffer the lines? Is this done with transistors or something?
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#5651 - 15/05/2002 02:10
Re: empeg unit add-on IO board
[Re: CrashLander]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 356
Loc: NORWAY
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There are plenty of linedriver/buffer chips around that will do the trick. They are integrated circuits, guess they all build on transistors in the end.
TommyE
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