There's got to be a better way to do this. Is it possible to create a standard script to install backup software and then have a standard script in the root with a few easy to change variables that can be run and have the backup just work? It would be could if something like this could be run thru hijack with 2 Empegs connected via a crossover.

What I am really saying is that there are many of us with multiple Empegs/Riocars, and the current backup process is tedious, complicated for most, potentially dangerous, and time consuming. Can someone genious programmer help out the community? In my opinion this is more important than any of the current programming projects in process.

/me keeps an eye out for Doug...

Indeed! Any minute now...

Do you use rsync to perform your backups between the different players over the crossover? That is what I do.

I use rsync, but not with crossovers. I'm not great with the linux CLI so i find it very challenging to do backups everytime i have trouble and it doesn't come out perfectly.

/me keeps an eye out for Doug...

Rather than repeat myself, just look

here
or
here
or
here
or
here
or
here
or
here
or
here
or
here

Hey, I just had an idea. Wouldn't it be nice if we had some sort of utility that could backup and restore our empegs with an exact mirror image? Even if the backup file were totally unusable other than to restore to the same empeg that created it?

I'd pay money for a utility like that...



tanstaafl. (Who is NOT turning blue holding his breath waiting for it to happen!

Actually imaging the drive is kind of along the lines of what i was thinking. I'm more interested in backing up my rio than i am keeping it in sync with another. Thanks for stating my purposes more lucidly.

I tried using the Beta 13 clone wizard in Win2k but it can only find one empeg. Will it work right in Win98? Does it work well?

Edit: I tried in 98 and I have the same problem. Good news is that it doesn't work any worse in WinXP! Just as good.

Hey, I just had an idea. Wouldn't it be nice if we had some sort of utility that could backup and restore our empegs with an exact mirror image? Even if the backup file were totally unusable other than to restore to the same empeg that created it?

Too easy.. just use FTP to grab /dev/hda and /dev/hdc from the player and save them under the system of your choice. I accept paypal

Of course, this is very slow.. and cannot handle incremental backups, but it does capture EVERYTHING.

Cheers

Of course, this is very slow.. and cannot handle incremental backups, but it does capture EVERYTHING.

Install rsync and use it to sync the dev entry as Mark suggested. Slightly more complicated but much faster as it would just get the changes after the first sync and it would also capture every last bit. Honestly I think the real reason nobody has made the "holy grail backup utility" that some of you want is because there are at least a dozen different ways to accomplish backups with existing utilities if you are willing to put five minutes of effort into getting it setup.

-Mike

I have put plenty of time into trying to set it up, but everytime I try to use it i run into some kind of problem. There was a guide posted here a while ago, i followed it to the letter and it wound up syncing to the wrong directory even though i never told it to sync to the right directory. There are people who own empegs who are even less linux literate than me and there really is a need for a more simplified method to accomplish this process. Maybe a scripts that install and run rsync for you.

Too easy.. just use FTP to grab /dev/hda and /dev/hdc from the player and save them under the system of your choice. I accept paypal

Of course, this is very slow.. and cannot handle incremental backups, but it does capture EVERYTHING.

Please excuse my ignorance abut things *nix. Or does that even enter into it?

Would I just set up an ethernet connection between my empeg and my PC, determine what IP address the empeg was using, and then at my PC do something like:

CD C:\
mkdir empegftp
cd empegftp
ftp
open <empeg IP address>
mget /dev/hd*

and then would the restore operation work pretty much the same way except use "mput" instead of "mget"?

You say "...this would be very slow..." How slow is that? I have about 15 GB on my player. Are we talking hours, here? Days? Weeks? Even if it took a couple of days, I wouldn't mind.

Am I on the right track here, or am I just displaying my indomitable ignorance?

tanstaafl.

I haven't read this entire thread yet so if this is redundant, I'm sorry.

In regards to you trying to use the Empeg clone tool with beta 13 and xp, 200, '98 etc... it doesn't work. I have tried all the same stuff, you have to go back and put the 1.03 version on BOTH players for the Empeg clone to find them. The clone works flawlessly for me when using 1.03. When you're done you'll have to go back to whatever beta version you want. There is a previous thread I started regarding this issue, it won't help to look for it 'cause the solution is 1.03.

Yeah, that's basically it.

Except don't mget /dev/hd* (it'll transfer everything twice!),
but rather: mget /dev/hda /dev/hdc

It will be slow, about 0.5Mbytes/sec up to maybe 0.7Mbytes/sec, and it will transfer the entire hard disk(s), not just the parts that actually have files on them.

So for a single 30GB drive, this will take around 60000 seconds, or 1000 minutes, or 16-17 hours, to complete. Each time.

Cheers

Yeah, that's basically it.

Omigod! If it was always that easy, why didn't somebody bang me over the head and tell me?

No doubt there have been posts on the bbs about this in the past, but I only recently began exploring the mysteries of ftp, so those posts wouldn't have registered with me.

If I do this, will I really, truly, end up with a mirrored structure that I can just ftp back into my empeg with a new hard drive installed and there will be no way to tell that I changed out the drive?

[run] Heads for the computer shop to buy a network card for his PC [/run]

tanstaafl.

But.. it only works for drives of identical capacities,
and most likely only for identical models as well.

-ml

But.. it only works for drives of identical capacities,
and most likely only for identical models as well.

Oh.

Then I'm right back where I started, then...

I have an 18GB drive in my player that is dying.

I have a new 40 GB Travelstar ready to replace it.

In words of one syllable or less, what do I do?

tanstaafl.

If FTP is okay, you might be able to use one of the GUI ftp programs like WS_FTP or FTP Voyager, drag and drop the root directory of the empeg onto your local hard drive.

If FTP is okay, you might be able to use one of the GUI ftp programs like WS_FTP or FTP Voyager, drag and drop the root directory of the empeg onto your local hard drive.

And that would give me what I want? A mirror copy including directory structure, database, metadata, etc. that could be copied transparently back into my empeg after a hard drive swap?

tanstaafl.

Using FTP to grab all the files doesn't strike me as a good idea... all symlinks will become normal files, /dev and /proc will be a mess.

How about tar or cpio? Mount both drives in the empeg and copy all the files:

cd /
tar cf - /dir1 /dir2 /dir3 | (cd /newdrive; tar xvf -)

My empeg's in the car right now and I don't recall all the directories in root that would need to be copied. Would be easier if tar had a -xdev option like find does, but AFAIK, it doesn't.

In words of one syllable or less, what do I do?

Assuming that you can put both of the disks in the empeg at once:

1. Unplug the 18
2. Install the 40 (as master)
3. Run the disk builder (to format the 40). This is why the 18 is unplugged.
4. Install a player developer .upgrade file (to replace the builder)
5. Plug the 18 back in. You'll need to jumper it as slave at this point.
6. Open a shell prompt using Hyperterminal or similar.
7. Issue these commands:

# rw ; rwm

This will remount the disks read-write.

# cp -a /drive1 /drive0

This will copy your music and configuration from drive1 (the old 18) onto drive0 (the new 40). It'll take a while.

# dd if=/dev/hdc3 of=/dev/hda3

This will copy your dynamic data from the partition on drive1 to drive0.

# ro ; rom

This will remount the disks read-only

8. Unplug the 18

I'm not sure how well this plays if you've installed any other applications, but it'll work with a stock player. No need for hijack.

I thought there was already an essentially-equivalent set of instructions like this as part of the drive upgrade guide? Or is this describing something different?

Tony,

the FAQ just mentions copying the FIDS directory (songs and tags only), Rogers modified copy steps look like they should copy EVERYTHING.

Now if only we knew who the FAQ maintainer was so he could update the drive upgrade guide

Rogers modified copy steps look like they should copy EVERYTHING.

Generally, you don't want it to copy everything. You *want* Emplode to be forced to rebuild the database because what if you were playing musical-drives with different master/slave configurations (as I had to do in my recent drive upgrade) and different file sets ended up on the player than what you started with.

Although it might be proper to add an instruction to copy config.ini.

Generally, you don't want it to copy everything. You *want* Emplode to be forced to rebuild the database because what if you were playing musical-drives with different master/slave configurations (as I had to do in my recent drive upgrade) and different file sets ended up on the player than what you started with.

Agreed, but there may be people who just want an exact mirror, and I would have thought updating the drive upgrade guide to also include the new info from Roger is the right to keep track of it?

Outside of the scope of the drive upgrade guide. I have added instructions for copying config.ini. This means that it currently has instructions for:

- Copying the songs and playlists from the old drive to the new drive, and making emplode rebiuild the database after this is done.
- Copying the dynamic data partition from the old drive to the new drive.
- Copying the configuration file from the old drive to the new drive.

I think that's an appropriate amount of coverage for the drive upgrade guide, and it covers essentially everything a drive upgrader needs, including what Doug needs to do to upgrade to his 40.

I use the WS_FTP synchronization utility to sync the Empeg drive0 and drive1 directories to a PC. After the initial sync (which takes a while) only changes are copied on subsequent syncs, so it doesn't take long at all. When I want to sync my second empeg, I use to the same utility to sync, but reverse the sync rules (rules can be saved and reloaded). So I have copies in 3 places: Empeg1, Empeg2, and the PC.

I even wrote a mp3 player to load the Empeg database on the PC and play the FIDs, so I have all the playlists etc.

-Chuck

Chuck,

Could you explain the steps you use to do this and what software is necessary? I have multiple Empegs (5) that I am attempting to keep sync'd by using Empeg Clone. My music database on the Empeg's is nearly 40gb, so using the Clone takes forever. Your way sounds fairly easy and quick (at least after the first sync). Thank you in advance for your time.

The only software you'll need is the Hijack kernal (for it's FTP server) and a FTP Sync utility. I use WS_FTP Pro personally and it comes with a sync utility. If you need any other help, feel free to ask away.

-Chuck

Just chipping in to say thanks for the drive upgrade guide, all those who contributed to it(1).

I've just upgraded my secondary drive, copying all the files across, and it went like a dream. And since I used my spare player for the upgrade, no need to re-install Hijack etc.

Took about 2 hours to copy 10GB of music from drive to drive (these were both 4200rpm Travelstars if it matters).


(1) even to myself, as I have more confidence in something I wrote back when it didn't matter so urgently - for example, which direction we're doing the copy...

Chuck,

Do you sync the drives separately or together when you sync with WS_FTP? What are your syncronization settings? I tried to sync today, and it will only let me do one drive at a time (ie: drive0 or drive1). I'm pretty carefull, but it seems like there's a bit of "room for error" doing individaul syncs on the drives, I'd like to do them as a pair or sync the entire player directory. Please let me know how you're going about it so I can get my routine down to a minimum. Thanks in advance for your help.

You have to do each drive seperately, so I have a rule for each drive. Here are the ones I use for the Drive0 folder, just change the Drive0 to Drive1 to do the other drive on a dual drive Empeg.

The rules for the source Empeg have these options (This syncs the PC to the source Empeg):

Location1: E:\Empeg Backup\Drive0  (This is the PC)

Location2: 192.168.0.100/drive0    (This is the Source Empeg)

Only on Loc1  -- Delete from Loc1

Newer on Loc1 -- No Transfer

Same on Both  -- No Transfer

Newer on Loc2 <- Loc1

Only on Loc2  <- Loc1

The rules for the destination Empeg have these options (This syncs the the destination Empeg to the PC):

Location1: E:\Empeg Backup\Drive0  (This is the PC)

Location2: 192.168.0.200/drive0    (This is the Backup Empeg)

Only on Loc1  -> Loc2

Newer on Loc1 -> Loc2

Same on Both  -- No Transfer

Newer on Loc2 -- No Transfer

Only on Loc2  -- Delete from Loc2

When copying files to the Empeg, you'll have to issue a 'RW' command in order to write to the drives. You can do that through hyperterminal, with the WS_FTP client, or with CharcoalGray's web interface. You will not be able to write to the drives until that is done, so you could do a test run if you want to make sure things are correct before making any real changes. After you're done writing to the drives, issue a 'RO' command to put them back to read only mode.

If you want the destination Empeg to have any different configuration options (the name, IP address etc) then edit the 'config.ini' file on the PC located in 'E:\Empeg Backup\Drive0\var' with something that will save the config.ini in the proper Unix file format. Don't use NotePad, use something like TextPad or UltraEdit32.

Chuck,

Where are you putting those "rules" or "options". My version of WS_FTP has some options in the Synchronise dialog box, but they aren't the same as the ones you've mentioned. Am I supposed to code those in somewhere? If so, where? I already sync'd drive0 and drive1 onto my PC using no rules, but I assume that is Ok considering it was the first time and it was actually just making a copy. Now I'm trying to sync another player with the files if got on the PC so I want to make sure things don't go sour! Also, where do I issue the RW command in WS_FTP? Thanks for your help to this point, I'm sure I'll have this figured out shortly.

I use the WS_FTP Synchronize Utility (It came with WS_FTP 7.62 Pro). Attached is a pic of it so you can see the rules.

If the RW command is not sent to the player your going write to (or test) then no actual changes will be made because the drives are in Read-Only mode. To send the RW command with WS_FTP:

1. Right Click on the remote system pane
2. Chose Operations for the pop-up menu
3. Chose FTP Commands
4. Chose SITE
5. Enter RW in the pop-up window
6 Click OK

Remember to put the drives back in Read-Only mode after writing to them by doing the same steps as above, but use RO instead of RW in step 5.

Ahhhh.... My version is 7.04 and the window looks completely different. I'll see if I can get an upgrade to 7.62 and set it up like you have it. Thanks a bunch for your time.

Steve

Up and Running! Got WS_FTP 7.6 and as I type, I'm sync'ing one of my "Slave" players.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

No problem at all. Remember that all the settings in the config.ini are copied if you didn't change them.

-Chuck.

Oh [censored].. I forgot that part. Can't be much of a mess right? Do EQ settings change with the config.ini? That's all I'm really concerned with. The other stuff should be easy to put back with Emplode.

Do EQ settings change with the config.ini?

No, they are stored on the scratch partition. Instructions for backing up the scratch partition are in the FAQ here. Personally, I find it easier just to keep my EQ settings written down on a scrap of paper...

Eww...paper is SOOO last millenium. At least put them in your palm pilot.

Paper doesn't require batteries.

I wasn't going to mention the dynamic data partition until he got a handle on the FTP sync.

-Chuck

Nah, you didn't do any damage. Just don't plug both of them in via ethernet at the same time, as they'll have the same name and address.

-Chuck

Paper doesn't require batteries.

And bits don't fade and fall apart, even after the hardware they were originally stored on is long dead.

They did on my Palm, when the batteries died. Of course, I seldom sync'ed it, so that could have saved me, but it didn't.

And bits don't fade and fall apart, even after the hardware they were originally stored on is long dead.

I guess you've never stored your data on tape...

tanstaafl.