#164709 - 09/06/2003 06:06
Matrix Question
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12344
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Preface: these questions may be stupid. these questions may be answered in the 3rd film. *edit* and don't read this if you haven't seen the movie yet
I have a question about time in the Matrix. I fully understand the movies, and the meaning of the meeting with the architect. The one thing I don't understand is the passage of time in the Matrix its self.
Neo claims that they've been fighting the machines for over 100 years (I want to say 120 years or something close to that). Regardless, how did these years get passed in the virtual reality of the Matrix?
When Neo is pulled out, it's 1999 ("the peak of [our] civilization"). One possibility is that it is always 1999. How does this work and still allow for a life cycle?
I don't know, it's just something that's been bugging me. If the answer is that it is continuously 1999, then please explain that possibility. I'd like to hear it.
ps - the way I understand it, Morpheus was wrong in the first film, and it isn't anywhere near 2199 at the time they release Neo. If there have been 6 versions of the Matrix (7, including the utopian one), then it is probably closer to 2799. Am I thinking correctly here?
Edited by DiGNAN17 (09/06/2003 06:08)
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Matt
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#164710 - 09/06/2003 06:26
Re: Matrix Question
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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the way I understand it, Morpheus was wrong in the first film, and it isn't anywhere near 2199 at the time they release Neo. Assuming the Architect is correct or isn't lying, Morpheus is wrong about more than just a date. He's got the whole purpose of Zion wrong and probably the history of humanity too.
I think the whole idea here again is "question what you know", only in a little different vein from the first movie. This one didn't offer any answers, but hopefully the third one will.
What really bugs me is that this whole thing is built on the totally weak premise of using humans as batteries (if they have to use a living creature for power, why not use something more docile, like a cow?). If they could figure out a way to reveal the battery thing as a big lie I think that’d be cool. This is unlikely though, as Morpheous saw it all with “his own eyes”.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#164711 - 09/06/2003 06:32
Re: Matrix Question
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
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I don't know if this is the way Watchowsky Brothers intended it to be, but, simply thinking in theorethical terms, if Matrix can emulate an entire reality, it can emulate the sense of memory itself, the perceptioon of time passing by; So the matrix can make everybody belive "next year" is 2000, "last year" is 1998, "current year" is 1999, and keep people in this stage forever.
Alternatively, they may have needed two or three human generations time span to make the matrix look and feel realistic to its "guests", in which case it would be more than 2799, I guess (since the Matrix has been reloaded six times).
I think the first hypothesis is more fascinating, but probably harder to make it fit properly in the plot. 
My 5 cents.
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#164712 - 09/06/2003 06:35
Re: Matrix Question
[Re: Taym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/06/2001
Posts: 2504
Loc: Roma, Italy
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By the way, look here, if anyone is interested in analyzing the problem word by word
http://www.zionmainframe.net/main/reloaded/archive/transcript.txt
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= Taym =
MK2a #040103216 * 100Gb *All/Colors* Radio * 3.0a11 * Hijack = taympeg
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#164713 - 09/06/2003 06:38
Re: Matrix Question
[Re: Dignan]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 1765
Loc: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
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I have a question about time in the Matrix. I fully understand the movies, and the meaning of the meeting with the architect. The one thing I don't understand is the passage of time in the Matrix its self.
Time is an illusion, see below.
claims that they've been fighting the machines for over 100 years (I want to say 120 years or something close to that). Regardless, how did these years get passed in the virtual reality of the Matrix?
What's to say that time in the matrix is equivalent to time in the 'real world'?
When Neo is pulled out, it's 1999 ("the peak of [our] civilization"). One possibility is that it is always 1999. How does this work and still allow for a life cycle?
If the Matrix can be rebooted, then it's possible to concieve that it's only *ever* 1999. The more live bodies at that time may have been conducive to the harvesting systems employed by the machines. Although that raises an interesting issue of why there couldn't be specific areas doing one thing separately to the others. Like a research lab, to fine tune the matrix elements to enhance crop output.
If the matrix can be re-arranged, then it would be possible to re-insert people into older instantiations in the matrix. Same sh1t different buck3t.
ps - the way I understand it, Morpheus was wrong in the first film, and it isn't anywhere near 2199 at the time they release Neo. If there have been 6 versions of the Matrix (7, including the utopian one), then it is probably closer to 2799. Am I thinking correctly here?
"No-one really knows for sure". if the matrix has been continually re-booting, then humans have actually lost track of the outside world.
I don't understand how the 'real world' people would get into Zion and not pass down any existing folk lore about the previous people in the matrix. Unless there is no 'real world' that we know of.
Why didn't they use cows?
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--
Murray
I What part of 'no' don't you understand?
Is it the 'N', or the 'Zero'?
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#164714 - 09/06/2003 07:10
Re: Matrix Question
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12344
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Assuming the Architect is correct or isn't lying, Morpheus is wrong about more than just a date. He's got the whole purpose of Zion wrong and probably the history of humanity too. This is true, but that wasn't my question. I did say that I understood the Architect scene. I thought it was a great twist
"No-one really knows for sure". if the matrix has been continually re-booting, then humans have actually lost track of the outside world. Yes, I realize that. I know that Morpheus would have no way of knowing this, due to the continuous reconstruction of Zion. I was just trying to estimate what the year actually is. If each itteration of the Matrix is about 100-120 years, then 6 itterations would mean that the machines have been in control for at least 700 years, possibly even 1000.
My thought about the possibility that it is always 1999 is this: I can believe that the Matrix could construct memory as well, but how long is the time frame? Is it the same day every day? Does the year 1999 keep repeating? Well, I can believe that, but I would think that would go against what the Architect said. Wouldn't that be a sort of "reboot"? If people age every year, they would have to have some sort of new identity at the beginning of each year, which would have to make their memories change.
I don't know, perhaps there isn't an answer to this question. I thought there might be, but I'll take it on a leap of faith. I don't care about the whole battery thing, because that's nit-picking in my view.
Edited by DiGNAN17 (09/06/2003 07:11)
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Matt
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#164715 - 09/06/2003 07:24
Re: Matrix Question
[Re: Dignan]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/03/2001
Posts: 202
Loc: Denver, CO
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It may not always be "1999" and time passes normally. As previous people stated the matrix has "rebooted" six times. The Architect noted on multiple occasions that "Neo" was faster than the others. This can also mean that the 100 years since the last matrix reboot could have been "faster" to happen. So you can assume that it has been at least 600 years, if not closer to 1000 or even more, since the matrix began. And who even knows when that happened.
Concerning the "time issue" of it always being 1999. It would interesting to see how that happens. When the Matrix reboots, we can assume that it goes on for at least 100 years. So would they start the matrix off near 1900, where the compuers have a recordable history of the humans, so they can easily keep track of events without having to deal with new things coming along. And what happens if it takes a long time for "the One" to come around? Goes well beyond 1999. Assuming that the Matrix prolly started around 2050 or beyond, this would give the machines 150 or so years of workable time. Also, I'm sure the machines could speed up or slow down the simulation on will to allow things to happen much easier.
But needless to say, this may all be answered in the next movie. Lots of questions really get opened up by things like this.
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- Mk2a 24G Blue SN: 120001043
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#164716 - 09/06/2003 07:26
Re: Matrix Question
[Re: xanatos]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12344
Loc: Sterling, VA
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That's what I'm thinking at this point. Wait and see. The second had more revelation than I ever expected, and we have a whole other movie to learn more, in addition to whatever happened to Neo at the end.
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Matt
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#164718 - 10/06/2003 23:46
Re: Matrix Question
[Re: Dignan]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
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But of course you do seem to forget the women in tight rubber suits factor which far out wieghs the lets try and figure out is going on here factor.
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