#16844 - 05/09/2000 21:25
Net-Enabler tar file/script
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Hi,
I'm in the process of writing an easy way (as in, easy as running a script, or extracting a tar file..)to enable some of the network services on Empeg.. The problem that I was running into is that I have no clue how the licenses for these things work. I would like to send a package with 1, possibly two files; it'd be a tar file containing the libraries/binaries/etc necessary to get ftp and telnet working on Empeg... The entire file, gunzipped is only 650k.
Can I just post this file as-is, or are there legality issues? How does the GNU license work?
A workaround would be to use the entire debian archive, and extract the proper files... BUT this is a 28mb download, which isn't too fun to do over (most people's) 56k modem... Can I legally post the condenced, pre-configured version? Do you guys even wanna see something like this?
-mark
MK2: 36gb
Tivo: 90gb
CPU: 120gb
...I think drive manufacturers love me!
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#16845 - 05/09/2000 23:09
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: dionysus]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
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In reply to:
Can I just post this file as-is, or are there legality issues? How does the GNU license work?
Shouldn't be a problem as long as you provide source too (not necessarily in the same package).
AFAI understand the GPL it says that you can do whatever
you want with the code, as long as you do not distribute
your changed code under a less free license. Ie you need to
distribute your changed stuff under GPL too...
/Michael
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/Michael
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#16846 - 06/09/2000 07:45
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: mtempsch]
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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...Can I just have pointers to the original debian root? My goal is to make the download as small as possible, and putting the source in there is definately not going to help that...
-mark
MK2: 36gb
Tivo: 90gb
CPU: 120gb
...I think drive manufacturers love me!
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#16847 - 06/09/2000 09:01
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: dionysus]
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enthusiast
Registered: 21/08/1999
Posts: 381
Loc: Northern Ireland
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In reply to:
...Can I just have pointers to the original debian root?
I'm not 100% certain, but I would guess that isn't good enough. There was a thread earlier this year about empeg and the GPL which Bruce Perens appeared in to discuss the GPL and empeg's responsibilities under it. If I remember correctly (I should really go and find the thread, but I think I'm right in saying this) the empeg guys thought they would be covered by pointing to the original root, but since the debian distribution had moved on, the actual source for the code used on the empeg was no longer available there, so they had to put it all up on the empeg site.
(I found the thread in question, and it got quite heated - by the standards of the time )
Geoff
---- -------
Got one of the first Mark 2 empegs...
_________________________
Geoff
---- -------
Mk1 Blue - was 4GB, now 16GB
Mk2 Red - was 12GB, now 60GB
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#16848 - 06/09/2000 09:25
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: Geoff]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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...Can I just have pointers to the original debian root?I'm not 100% certain, but I would guess that isn't good enough.This doesn't mean your "simple" tarball/script has to contain the entire Debian archive. It just means that you must offer the full sources from the same location from which you offer your modified (cut-down) version. In a different tarball. So although it'll still take up space on your server, you at least wouldn't be forcing anyone to do a huge download. At least this is how I understand it. I'm not a GPL expert by any stretch of the imagination. ___________
Tony Fabris
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#16849 - 06/09/2000 11:11
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
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In reply to:
It just means that you must offer the full sources
from the same location from which you offer your modified
(cut-down) version. In a different tarball. So although
it'll still take up space on your server, you at least
wouldn't be forcing anyone to do a huge download.
At least this is how I understand it. I'm not a GPL expert by any stretch of the imagination.
Right on. Take the binaries, libraries etc. that is needed
to use the package and pack that into the binary
tar-ball. This is what most users will want, unless they
don't trust you and want to inspect/compile it themselves,
or if they want to modify it further.
To comply with the GPL you also need to make the source code
available - including your changes. Pointing to the original
.deb package isn't enough as your changes aren't included
there. So essentially, tar up an archive of your project
directory and stick that on the server along with the binary
tar-ball. Stuff from the original .deb that you don't use does not need to be included.
You can not distribute it under any lesser free license than
the GPL. Not even the BSD (essentially: do what ever you
want as long as you credit the earlier developers) license,
as it (BSD license) allows the next developer to distribute without source.
The point of the GPL is to make sure the source stays available - always.
Chicken clause: At least that's the way I understand it...
/Michael
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/Michael
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#16850 - 06/09/2000 11:14
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: tfabris]
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enthusiast
Registered: 21/08/1999
Posts: 381
Loc: Northern Ireland
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In reply to:
I'm not a GPL expert by any stretch of the imagination.
Neither am I, but that thread I mentioned taught a lot of us here a thing or two
What I meant was that, as I understand it, if you are providing any pre-compiled binaries from the debian root, you are obliged to provide source code for the particular versions of the utilities you include, as there is no guarantee that the source code to match the specific versions you are using will always be available from the debian site. It seems a fairly minor point in the grand scheme of things, but.... well, better safe than sorry I guess.
Geoff
---- -------
Got one of the first Mark 2 empegs...
_________________________
Geoff
---- -------
Mk1 Blue - was 4GB, now 16GB
Mk2 Red - was 12GB, now 60GB
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#16851 - 06/09/2000 11:14
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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In reply to:
This doesn't mean your "simple" tarball/script has to contain the entire Debian archive. It just means that you must offer the full sources from the same location from which you offer your modified (cut-down) version. In a different tarball. So although it'll still take up space on your server, you at least wouldn't be forcing anyone to do a huge download.
The problem is that I'm not sure if I have the source available or not in the first place.. Does anyone know if the debian dist. that's been recommded even comes w/ the source? If so, then I would think offering IT directly, then a slimmed down version of it (side by side, I can host both files if necessary) would cover the legalities; right?
-mark
MK2: 36gb
Tivo: 90gb
CPU: 120gb
...I think drive manufacturers love me!
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#16852 - 06/09/2000 11:18
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: dionysus]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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The problem is that I'm not sure if I have the source available or not in the first place.Heh. "I have to provide the Debian source to comply with the GPL. I wonder if they complied with the GPL, too?" ___________
Tony Fabris
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#16853 - 06/09/2000 12:09
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Well, Debian is probably the one distro that is most concerned about the GPL, so I tend to think that they publish the code :-) Try this link for the source archive. You might want to point out to users that you've made no source changes, but only repackaged binary stuff for easier installation on the empeg.
_________________________
/Michael
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#16854 - 06/09/2000 16:24
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: mtempsch]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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The problem comes from a literal reading of the GPL. If you provide binaries (in any fashion), you have to provide source, or offer to provide source for (IIRC) up to 3 years.
This is a bit of a faff, basically.
It doesn't matter that someone else is providing the source for the items in question. You are obliged to provide them with (or in addition to) the binaries.
If you can't find the source for the binaries that you are distributing, then you'll find yourself up a creak if you do provide those binaries.
Roger - not necessarily speaking for empeg
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-- roger
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#16855 - 28/09/2000 14:14
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: dionysus]
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journeyman
Registered: 13/08/2000
Posts: 82
Loc: Near Arnhem, Netherlands
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Just wondering if you're still planning to release this script (you could release a howto without scripts/binaries for the time being)
Walter
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Reg:1934/Mk1:158-6Blue/Mk2:380-12Blue
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[email protected]
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Reg:1934/Mk1:158-Blue(sold)/Mk2:380-Amber(sold)/Mk2a:3273-Blue
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#16856 - 28/09/2000 20:23
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: wvloon]
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Hey; sorry my work situation has made it so I've had 0 time lately; but the basic steps are on this bbs - just search for "enabling ftp"; there's a thorough discussion on the subject..
Also, I'm having problems with something; actually, is anyone else experiencing this? my ftp/telnet daemons work randomly.. Sometimes when the empeg boots up, they work fine and everything is fine.. Other times, they crash and burn; using the serial prompt and trying to ping another host consistantly gives an error message when ftpd and telnetd aren't working... I don't understand why it'd be random; is anyone else experinecing this? Once it starts working, it keeps working, but it takes 2-3 reboots to get it to work...
-mark
MK2: 36gb
Tivo: 90gb
CPU: 120gb
...I think drive manufacturers love me!
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#16857 - 29/09/2000 03:10
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: dionysus]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Are you running the player at the same time? Sounds like the kernel might be killing your processes (as discussed in another thread)
Hugo
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#16858 - 01/10/2000 13:42
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: altman]
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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No I'm not; I'm quitting to a shell first, and I've even tried quitting when Empeg first boots up.. It seems to be completely random... the actual message is
"neighbour table overflow", and it happens if I try to
a) ftp to empeg
b) telnet to empeg
and sometimes even
c) ping from empeg...
(note that the message is displayed on the serial port...)
Here's what happens w/ ftp:
eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:02:D7:10:00:9F
inet addr:192.168.0.8 Bcast:192.168.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:12 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:2 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:100
Interrupt:7 Base address:0x8000
empeg:/empeg/bin# ftp 192.168.0.8
neighbour table overflow
ftp: connect: No buffer space available
...here's ping:
empeg:/empeg/bin# ping 192.168.0.8
PING 192.168.neighbour table overflow
0.8 (192.168.0.8): 56 data bytes
ping: sendto: No buffer space available
ping: wrote 192.168.0.8 64 chars, ret=-1
neighbour table overflow
ping: sendto: No buffer space available
ping: wrote 192.168.0.8 64 chars, ret=-1
neighbour table overflow
ping: sendto: No buffer space available
What's wierd is, it's RANDOM, sometime it works... any ideas?
-mark
MK2: 36gb
Tivo: 90gb
CPU: 120gb
...I think drive manufacturers love me!
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#16859 - 02/10/2000 01:49
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: dionysus]
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old hand
Registered: 12/08/2000
Posts: 702
Loc: Netherlands
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try :
# ifconfig lo 127.0.0.1
It solved the problem for me... Frank van Gestel
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Frank van Gestel
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#16860 - 02/10/2000 19:06
Re: Net-Enabler tar file/script
[Re: dionysus]
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new poster
Registered: 02/10/2000
Posts: 3
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can I get my hands on the net enabling tarball you have so far?
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