Just thought I'd share a few stories prompted by a visit yesterday to a Micro Center near my house. There are times when it's just best not to say anything at all when overhearing a discussion nearby.

A few people were talking about portable MP3 players at a display stand in the Micro Center Apple section. They were looking at the iPods, and commenting on how 30gigs was just way too much space to have on a portable device. "The batteries would run out before you could listen to all the music". Another person nearby overheard their conversation, and inserted his opinion where it really didn't belong. "That's why I have a flash player. Besides, Apple is the only one to make a hard-drive based player, and it only works with a Mac. My flash player works with PC's".

I found out a long time ago that it's best just not to say anything. At family reunions, one relative would give another absurdly bad advice about (external hard drives/photo editing software/digital cameras). I used to try to set the record straight, but now I just let them go at it, and only give my opinion when it is asked for.

On a climbing trip to the Red River Gorge a few years ago, I was sitting on the porch of Miguel's, a popular hangout for climbers. A couple approached the porch where 6 or so people were sitting, and asked if anyone knew of places where they could set up a toprope (a way of climbing that beginners often use, requiring access to the top of a climb to set up a rope for protection). A few people (including myself) volunteered information about climbs that were topropeable, until they began to ask for details on how to set up a toprope. At this point my only comment was: "There is a guiding service on KY 15, you might want to hire a guide for tomorrow". Another climber at the table showed them how to set up a toprope and how to tie the suitable knots in tubular webbing to support your weight at the top of the climb. Clearly they were beginners, and I had no desire giving them information that they could use to hurt themselves.

On the other hand, there are times when it is okay for you to speak up.

While climbing at Seneca Rocks, there are many times when a group of 2 or 3 climbers wanders by the base of a climb where I am waiting or belaying, looking at the guidebook intently. If they look like they are lost, I'll say something to the effect of, "What climb are you looking for?" Sometimes I'll even start up a conversation with people who are just passing by, talking about what climb they just did, where they are from, etc. For the most part that is the culture of Seneca, fellow climbers are friendly to each other.

One day I was getting ready to climb up the Stairmaster (the hiking trail to the base of the climbs, which is a rock staircase with 2 foot steps and about 800' long) when I saw a group of 3 with noticably light gear. They obviously planned to toprope a climb, since they had no lead climbing gear with them. I asked them what climb they were planning on doing, and the leader replied "The Burn". I asked if they were going to toprope it, and he replied that they were. They had been told that The Burn could be toproped by a person they were camping next to, and were encouraged by that person to try it the next day. Problem was, they had a 50m rope (165') for a climb that was 100' long. If they would have set up their toprope and tried to rappel down, they would have been in for a pretty nasty surprise, since they would have been 15' short of the base.

Where have you encountered people who spew off at the mouth?

Where have you encountered people who spew off at the mouth?


Myself... until about 15 years ago.

I was in a small office with a friend (Dann) whose knowledge and intellect I respected enormously, eavesdropping as he listened to a guy trying to impress him with how much he knew about computers. Now, Dann really did know computers, and I couldn't understand why he just sat their, looking interested and nodding his head as this... poseur... spouted nonsense so ridiculously far off base that even I (who knew virtually nothing) realized he was making a fool of himself.

Dann thanked him for the "information" and let him go, and I realized at that moment how much easier it was for all concerned to just leave him with his misconceptions, and not try to educate or embarass him.

Up until that little episode, I always felt obligated to try and correct others' misstatements, probably because in my arrogance I wanted to demonstrate how smart I was. No longer.

I might have been smart... but Dann showed me wisdom.

tanstaafl.

I've occasionally helped people out in a store such as Best Buy, not to correct them (I guess I've out grown that like the rest of us have) but just to help. I remember once where a Mom and daughter were spending birthday loot on an MP3 player, and knew nothing about them. I explained flash vs hard drive, and MB vs GB, etc. and they were happy.

I guess - sometimes it has it's need.

I'm trying to remember who it was who told the story of being in a Fry's in Silicon Valley, spouting off about how much the Apple sucked and it couldn't multitask, and it would make an awful web server. A voice from behind says something to the effect of "I've heard there's a new web server for the Mac that multitasks well (etc.)" and the person turned around and was face-to-face with Jobs himself.

I can't remember if that story was on this BBS or if it was elsewhere... Anyone?

Heh. I used to work with a guy that we nicknamed "the AC" -- short for the Anti-Clue. He was (and still is) the network administrator at the company. One quick story about opening your mouth when one shouldn't, then to bed for me... I'll give a few more later...

Office admin staff had their email archived with some MS product. (Despite our best effort to persuade him otherwise, he had standardized them on MS Outlook -- we were clobbered regularly by virii.) A couple of the cuter gals there started to get the idea that he was reading their email. One day, when one had taken a day off, she sent some email to the other about how sick she was. Cold, headache, sinuses, blah, blah, blah. Of course, she was in perfectly good health, just taking a bit of a vacation. (The girl that was the recipient of the email knew all about it, of course, and didn't say a word to anyone.) Next day she was back at work, the AC asked about her health, and made some comment about sorry to hear you've been sick. The smarmy bastard. Her only response was "I haven't been sick, who told you that?"

Oops. Guess you shouldn't talk about things you've snooped in private email with the person that sent it.

Ta,

Where have you encountered people who spew off at the mouth?

Me. I admit it, I do that. Of course, I only butt in when I have knowledge about something, but I haven't yet learned to stay out where my nose doesn't belong. For some reason I still have the "I can't let you go through life with such a horrible misunderstanding of the way things are" attitude, when really it isn't going to make much of a difference and they aren't going to appreciate the input anyway. My wife gets on to me constantly about this too. Oh well, no one's perfect.

As I said, though, at least when I butt in I do it with knowledge. I know how to keep my mouth shut when I'm ignorant of something. The worst is sales people though, and I'm never sure what to do with them. Like the Comp USA guy who was bragging to me about his dual processor windows 98 machine while trying to sell my wife a laptop.

The worst is sales people though, and I'm never sure what to do with them. Like the Comp USA guy who was bragging to me about his dual processor windows 98 machine while trying to sell my wife a laptop.

Buy online !

Like the Comp USA guy

Oh boy, I can't stand the folks at the local Circuit City. Sometimes I just like walking around to look at things and listen to the salespeople selling computers to parents of college-bound children. Sometimes it upsets me because they'll tell them anything to get them to buy anything.

I hate Circuit City because the people there work on commision. I had friends who worked there and frequently got screwed over by the people who were hired through nepotism (one of them stole the sale of a plasma screen TV right at checkout, costing the salesperson a giant commision on the $35000).

As dumb as the people at Best Buy and CompUSA are, I take comfort in the fact that they have no hidden motives for their misinformation.

As dumb as the people at Best Buy and CompUSA are, I take comfort in the fact that they have no hidden motives for their misinformation.

Yeah right except for spifs and managers telling them to push items.

I suppose you're right. Plus, the people at Best Buy now seem to be required to inform you that they aren't working on commission. I'm not sure why anyone would think that anonymous floor person would get commission on an item that's bought in a completely different area of the store, but I guess those are the same people who are asking for help from said salespeople.

I have both received and offered advice at Fry's Electronics. It happens all the time there and I would not hesitate for an instant to do it again. Certainly the employees there don't know a thing about the products in their departments. I probably would have stepped in on that mp3 player discussion, why not?

I try to only give advice based on personal experience. But in general, I think it's better to stay out of conversations unless both parties are floundering, OR, it directly concerns you.
If people are happy being sold a line, let them be. particularly if they do nothing to educate themselves about a subject.

I was in an electronic department store and a customer asked and assistant about wireless computing. The assistant clearly didn't know anything about it except price and was pushing the expensive (802.11g) model. I was right there and just asked the lady customer what she wanted to do with wireless. All she wanted to do was surf the net from her laptop. I explained the difference other than price in the two products being offered and justified why she could get the cheaper one, if that was all she wanted it for. I left the decision up to her.
I don't know what choice she made but at least she was informed.

As a general rule, I try to keep my nose out of other people's business. It can actually be a lot of fun. I was once visiting a friend at Harvard, and I crossed paths with a tour group, with a guide explaining the history of the statue (of John Adams?) and the student tradition of rubbing his foot for good luck. I quietly listened in. After the guide finished and started leading the group off to their next destiantion. She threw an aside at me, "So, did I get it right?" She had assumed I was a Harvard student, I guess. All I said was, "sounds good to me."

Probably my favorite example of keeping my mouth shut happened ~12 years ago when my dad and I were test driving new cars. We were driving a Nissan, I think, and the salescritter was talking about how aerodynamic the car was, tested by NASA windtunnels, etc. At the time, I was a summer intern at NASA Ames, working in the same building as all the high-performance numerical fluid flow people. My dad is a computer architect, and those NASA people are big customers of his work. Dad and I just looked at each other and looked right back at the road without saying a word. (NASA does airplanes, not cars. And, if they did do a car, for whatever reason, it would be an American car, not a Japanese one.) Sure, it would have been fun to nuke the salescritter, but it was more fun to see what else he was making up.

Of course, if somebody asks you for advice, then it's another matter entirely...

Sure, it would have been fun to nuke the salescritter, but it was more fun to see what else he was making up.

Once you know you are hearing fiction, it is always fun to see just how good a storyteller you are dealing with.

True! Sometimes it's even fun to play dumb, and see how far into a hole they can dig themselves.

Sometimes it's even fun to play dumb, and see how far into a hole they can dig themselves.

Agreed. As in this classic PCA example.