Greetings!

Well, my install occurred today. Wow!

Let me just start off by stating that this is my first, non-factory
car audio installation. I figured, if I was going to do something
different...

I wanted to keep my factory head unit - a CD / Tape / Tuner. Even
the people at the installer said that the factory unit had a pretty
decent sound. Relatively speaking.

My head unit was routed through a speaker to line level adapter.
This is now in use as the aux in on the empeg. Works fine.

The empeg itself then runs to a brand new Alpine MRV F357, a 4
channel amplifier with built in crossover and subwoofer support. This
is to become important later on.

The amp connects to my original factory speakers. I was specifically
warned not to go too high on the amp power (or at least to watch the
volume) lest I blow out the speakers. Not a problem - usually I listen
at fairly low volume.

The install took about 5 hours. My decision to keep the factory head
was a complication, but not a major one. As it turned out, my car (a
1998 Buick Riviera) has an ash tray and a built-in CD holder below it.
Since I don't smoke and the empeg would handle most of my bulk music
needs, both items were expendable.

The empeg was mounted in the area where the CD holder was. The trim
from the factory, including some after market wood grain, was kept.
The empeg sits slightly _below_ the level of the original CD holder.
The trim fits quite nicely over the empeg, and the space from the ash
tray. The opening left from the CD holder is big enough so that the
entire fascia is visible, but it covers the handle and the outer edge of
the player. This means that I must remove the trim cover plate to slide
the empeg out of the sleeve. I don't foresee this as a problem - with
the removal of the ash tray, the trim piece is very easy to remove and
to refit.

The result is a very clean look (I will get photos eventually...). In
fact, it is almost totally stealth - unless you know it is there, or look
very closely, you do not know the empeg is there unless you are in the car.
Even then, the edges are hidden by the wooden trim. The amp and subwoofer
are in the trunk.

Oh, yes... The subwoofer... After showing off the unit to the team that
was working on my car (two sales and three installers - all of whom were
extremely impressed by the empeg, by the way...), they decided to wire the
amp and trunk for the subwoofer, even though I was not going to buy one.
During the sound check, I sat in the car, played around, and then they
turned on / connected the subwoofer...

I know that it was said in another thread that if you really want to
improve the sound of a stock factory install, get a sub. Well, this
convinced me! I drove out with the subwoofer (Kicker SE-S12L7) in car.

All in all, I am extremely happy with the install. The look cannot be
matched!!! I have, unfortunately, some alternator whine. The installers
are not at all happy about that. We verified and tried most of the tricks
(power and audio on opposite sides of car, etc.). They have some line and
power filters on order. I hope that will improve the situation. Both the
installers and I can hear it, although my first passenger did not notice it
until it was pointed out.

My install was performed by Zippo's Car Stereo, located in Central New Jersey.
They were recommended to me by my car dealership, and are known in the area
for high end car audio and video installs. They really did a great job, and
I am very impressed by what they have done - I just hope to get rid of that
whine next week when the filters come in. If anyone needs work done in the
area, I would certainly recommend them.


Paul G.
Q# 15189
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Greetings!

For those interested, installation photos are now available at this site.

Paul G.
Q# 15189
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Beautiful, beautiful car. If I lived in the States, I would ride in such a car. Your install looks very stock too. I assume that you're not gonna take the empeg out of the car too often, am I right?
Anyway, your car is as beautiful as american cars get. I wish they sold Buicks down here :-(

Greetings!

It is a really nice car. The problem is that they never sold well (this can be read as "in quantity"). They discontinued the Riviera in 1999 - only a few were made that model year, making the '99 a collectors edition. The '98 is identical, not a collectors edition, but really nice anyway. The wood on the dash was after market done by the dealership. The original had too much of a plastic look in the dash. The wood gives a warmer appearance.

To be honest, I take the empeg out fairly often - updating playlists mainly, or if I want to bring the empeg into the office. The trim plate over it is easy to remove, and yet fits in snugly enough to stay locked in place. It is really the best of both worlds - a clean stock install, and yet very easy access.

I am going back to the installer tomorrow (he has my line filters in), and I might let myself be talked into new speakers... Still thinking about that one...

Paul G.
Q# 15189
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Ah, the never-ending story of system enhancings. I would recommend you to change your speakers for JL audio factory replacements. Never ever let your installer drill some new holes in your car! you'll never be able to take your speakers with you, and it will lower your car's resale price. There are very good factory replacement speakers too from Pioneer and well, many other makers.
As for the Riviera having been discontinued... regrettable. How are the prices for a 98' model? maybe I could make an import, never mind I'm full of debts (If my wife ever reads this it'll be hell back home)

Greetings!

Well, I went to the installer today, and my alternator whine
is mostly fixed.

Basically, they removed the unit from the dash, verified all
of the wiring and placed line filters on all of the outputs.
After reinstall, there was a trace of whine, but not enough to
worry about. It can be heard if the unit is paused or muted,
but even then, you have to know its there, you have to be at
a complete stop (no road noise), etc. Very nice!

And, I took the plunge and replaced my factory speakers with
MB Quart speakers front and rear. They fit perfectly in the
factory speaker locations without any modification at all. In
fact, I was happily surprised to find that my _factory_ install
was based on component speakers! Not the greatest, of course,
but that let me install component replacements without any kind
of modification at all!!! Now, everything sounds great, and
there is no "un-self-inflicted" noise.

I say "un-self-inflicted" because driving around today, I
opened the cupholder, and (meeting resistance) I pushed a bit
harder. Too late - I must have loosened one of the RCA lines
in the install (I didn't realize the wiring was back there),
and introduced a small amount of buzz in the front passenger
speaker. Something I will deal with in my spare time, or I
might just go to the installer and admit my actions.

All in all, a great product, a great install!



Paul G.
Q# 15189
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Greetings!

Everything went very well. I went for the MB Quart because they had been recommended by a number of people I know at work who do this as a hobby. As I mentioned in the other post, my factory speakers had been component, so I swapped an identical sized set in place. No modification needed. If anything, the install looks stock. But it is not even close...

I have not priced the 98 Riv recently, but I don't know how easy / hard they would be to get. Probably some of the auto shops on line might know, but I see very few of them around. Pity...

Paul G.
Q# 15189
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Congratulations, a very good choice indeed. MB Quart speakers are second to none.

...a very good choice indeed. MB Quart speakers are second to none.

I concur -- for the most part, that is.

MB Quart speakers dominate IASCA competition, particularly at the national level. I use almost all MB Quart in my competition car, but I do not use MB Quart subwoofers. They are great quality speakers, but produce a darker, heavier, "boomier" sound than I care for. I hear they're great for SPL, though.

HighWayDrifter has good things to say about Diamond brand speakers (they're even pricier than MB Quart!) and my stereo installer says they are great for sound quality, but... (and here's a little aside that HWD will find interesting) they're not so good in Alaska. My installer said that their construction was not suitable for extreme cold, something about leads being glued to the speaker cones (must be for co-axial speakers?) and the glue failed in subzero temperatures. A stereo shop in Anchorage had 100% failure rate and had to stop selling them. This would only happen in extraordinary (by normal standards) weather conditions.

pgrzelak (did I remember how to spell that?) -- what differences have you noticed in your sound now that you have upgraded to the MB Quart speakers? I think you said you put in a 12" subwoofer (was it a Kicker?) -- are you happy with that? Would you perhaps prefer the "tighter" sound of a 10"?

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Greetings!

I have noticed a lot of subtle things about the music improving with the new speakers. It is hard for me to categoriz(s)e (I still have that buzz in one of them), but...

1) I find I hear a lot more than I did previously. A lot of detail and subtle things in the music are now very clear, even at modest volumes. This is really good for picking up items in the music (i.e., voices, instruments) that were masked by the other lines being played.

2) It seems much easier to separate lines of music / instruments. There is a clarity that was not there before. It is as if muddy-ness I had never noticed before has been removed.

3) There is a greater spacial feel. Instead of all of the sound appearing to come from one point with only modest separation (as with my factory install), I get a much wider feeling to the sound, with greater separation. This may be because the components used were aimed differently by the installer, but I believe that the speakers themselves improved this as well.

Originally, I planned on two way coaxials, but that went out the window when I found that I already had factory space / drilling for component. I decided (as a first step) to get the DSD213 component set in the doors and a DKC169 coaxial set in the rear deck. Are components "better" than coaxial?

I never tried the subs in the MB Quart. This was actually from my first week. The installer recommended the Kicker Solo-Baric 12" L7. They did not have (that I saw on the floor) the 10" on hand, so I did not test one. The 12" gives a really nice sound, and I am very happy with it. It seems fairly tight to me, and has a lot of punch. It doesn't seem muddy or anything - it feels very precise. When playing with it in the shop, I tested it with a Phish track - "Down With Disease". It has a nice bass into, with crisp individual notes and quick stops that I thought would be good for testing it out. The sub handled it very cleanly without blurring anything. I am very happy with it.

OK, I have to ask. What is SPL? And you did spell it correctly!!!



Paul G.
Q# 15189
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Greetings!

I think I fixed the buzz.

I finally overcame my paranoia and removed the sled. I tested the connections for all of the wires and moved them futher back (so I shouldn't have any more problems with the cup holder). Started it up and no (or very little) buzz! Clean sound from all speakers. I feel better now...

Paul G.
Q# 15189
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

P.S. - Well, I got rid of most of it. There is still a little left, but that can wait until the next time I go to the shop. Nothing major or annoying...

Edited by pgrzelak on 15/10/00 06:07 PM.

Are components "better" than coaxial?

No and yes. In the MB Quart line, the coaxials are made of the same components and have the same sound characteristics as the component speakers. From that point of view, they're no better. However, with component speakers, you have more options for speaker placement, so from that point of view they are better.

OK, I have to ask. What is SPL? And you did spell it correctly!!!

Of cuorse I spellt it corrictly. Donch yu think I cin spell gud or somethin?

SPL refers to one of the four aspects of IASCA stereo competitions.

There is installation in which your system judged on the quality of the installation work -- were the proper sized cables used to carry the load, is everything neat, wires hidden from view, is it a custom install (neon-lit motorized amplifier racks and gold plated everything on display) or a stock install with everything hidden, etc.

Next there is Sound Quality. Does your system reproduce the tracks on the official IASCA competition disk the way it is supposed to in terms of imaging, staging, linearity, tonal accuracy, spectral balance, etc.

Next there is RTA, or Real Time Analysis in which a pink noise track is played into a microphone located where the driver's head would normally be positioned and the system is evaluated in 1/3 octave intervals from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz to make sure that no two adjacent 1/3 octave samples differ by more than three decibels.

Finally, there's the crowd pleaser: SPL, or Sound Pressure Level in which contestants try and blow up their stuff by getting the maximum possible decibels or sound pressure, using one of the designated IASCA tracks. My installer has gone off the deep end in this aspect, having built up his own truck to the point where he has reached in excess of 169 decibels (enough to be fatal to anybody unfortunate enough to be inside the truck at maximum volume) by running 40,000 watts into sixteen 15" subwoofers.

I am the current Alaska SPL champion for two years running now, and it is hilarious, because I am the only one who competes in my cone area class (160 square inches maximum) and my single 10" subwoofer only puts out about 112 decibels maximum. I knock 'em dead in sound quality, however...

So, are you all fired up now, ready to go enter an IASCA contest?

tanstaafl.



"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

No man, it's not paranoia, it's just the normal concern every normal male shows when something's wrong with their toys, heheh. We guys are impossible sometimes. I can imagine how much time I will spend with my empeg when I'll buy it... enough sure to make my (very)significant other mostly angry.

Greetings!

No, I don't think I or my install is really competition class. I actually shuddered when I read those pressure levels!!! I like my hearing in-tact. 169db... Even your 112db sounds pretty scary... I would guess you don't normally listen to it at full volume. I might do OK in the installation category, but I have never calibrated for any of the others.

My main goal with the new speakers, etc., was to get clarity, and I have definately (vastly) improved there! It is nice going to the car, randomizing the entire empeg and hearing everything (from classical to folk to prog to rock) clearly with sharper definition than I have ever matched before (even on home systems with headphones). I now find myself smiling, even while driving to work!!! I strongly recommend to the people who were using stock speaker installs - DON'T. I was going to, but the difference is worth it!!!


Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)

Greetings!

Indeed! But things have worked out quite well with the install.

As to spending time with the empeg, you may want to really go through your MP3 tags now, and give some thought as to how you would break out your menu structure. I did all of this in advance, and it made the import into the player, and my getting used to working it on the road, much easier. Do you think your significant other will "get it" with the empeg?

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (40GB Green)