#200741 - 27/01/2004 13:41
Shuffle Mode
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new poster
Registered: 15/11/2003
Posts: 18
Loc: Texas
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Is there any way to control the way Karma arranges tracks in shuffle mode? Lately I've been getting big blocks of the same artist. I think what I would really like is a random mix, not just least recently played to most recently played.
I haven't used RioDJ because it looks like it selects from all tracks on the player, I would like to have other options for whatever subset of tracks I want to hear.
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#200742 - 27/01/2004 14:23
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: mldarm]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Lately I've been getting big blocks of the same artist. I think what I would really like is a random mix Uh oh, here we go again! 
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#200743 - 27/01/2004 14:24
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: mldarm]
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old hand
Registered: 27/02/2003
Posts: 777
Loc: Washington, DC metro
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Is there any way to control the way Karma arranges tracks in shuffle mode? Lately I've been getting big blocks of the same artist. I think what I would really like is a random mix, not just least recently played to most recently played. Randomness has been discussed before. Ad nauseum, but with a sound conclusion (and in a direction only likely to be found on this bbs ) on grouping.
edit: Argh! Too late!
-jk
Edited by jmwking (27/01/2004 14:25)
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#200744 - 27/01/2004 14:27
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: mldarm]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Lately I've been getting big blocks of the same artist. Define, as precisely as possible, "big blocks"?
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#200745 - 27/01/2004 15:42
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: tfabris]
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new poster
Registered: 15/11/2003
Posts: 18
Loc: Texas
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Sorry to bring up something that's been done, didn't realize. As far as what it looks like, I'll get something like 4 songs in a row, then some other artist, then tree more by the first artist and then a couple more within the next 5 tracks. I notice this particularly if I've just listened to one album, then if I play a playlist including that and many other albums, the tracks from that album are at the end of the list. Or if I rip a new disc its tracks are at the start of the list.
I guess I just wish there were a setting that was to the effect of "no more than x songs in a row by the same artist". Or maybe be able to force a uniform distribution rather than random.
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#200746 - 27/01/2004 15:56
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: mldarm]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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As far as what it looks like, I'll get something like 4 songs in a row, then some other artist, then tree more by the first artist and then a couple more within the next 5 tracks. If this isn't an exaggeration, then this could potentially be a bug, depending on the mix of tunes existing on the player and the exact steps you used to create this situation in the first place.
What version of the firmware is the player running? How many tunes by how many different artists are on the player?
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#200747 - 27/01/2004 16:00
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: mldarm]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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I guess I just wish there were a setting that was to the effect of "no more than x songs in a row by the same artist". Or maybe be able to force a uniform distribution rather than random. Yes, this would be very cool, and something I asked for in my very first post on this BBS. Hopefully it's on a list somewhere . . .
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#200748 - 27/01/2004 16:04
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: mldarm]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Or maybe be able to force a uniform distribution rather than random. Remember that this would have a side-effect. Artists who are the majority would get the bulk of their songs piled up at the end of the shuffle. Artists who are the minority would have always have their one or two songs showing up near the beginning of the shuffle.
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#200749 - 27/01/2004 16:09
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Artists who are the majority would get the bulk of their songs piled up at the end of the shuffle. Artists who are the minority would have always have their one or two songs showing up near the beginning of the shuffle. In other words: If I make it through an entire shuffle of my player (not likely) I'll be treated to a Rush-a-thon at the end. I can live with that!
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#200750 - 27/01/2004 16:16
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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In other words: If I make it through an entire shuffle of my player (not likely) I'll be treated to a Rush-a-thon at the end. I can live with that! Me too. But what I couldn't live with is hearing the single lone Blue Oyster Cult song each time I started up a fresh shuffle.
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#200751 - 27/01/2004 16:18
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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#200753 - 27/01/2004 16:32
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Me too. But what I couldn't live with is hearing the single lone Blue Oyster Cult song each time I started up a fresh shuffle. Well I'd think you wouldn't have the same song show up at the beginning in a "smoothed out" shuffle, it just wouldn't show up in the Rush glut at the very end. With the number of tracks we're talking about, the BOC song will still be buried somwhere in the first 2,500 tracks (for my player), which doesn't really mean it'll come up at the "beginning".
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#200754 - 27/01/2004 16:35
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Actually, I think I understand what you're saying as I think about it. But what I'm seeing is not a "uniform distribution" algorithm but a "play x songs by other artists before another song by this artist again". Setting this at even as low a number as 20 would get rid of the "combing" effect while not removing the "perceived randomness" of the shuffle.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#200755 - 27/01/2004 16:37
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: tfabris]
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new poster
Registered: 15/11/2003
Posts: 18
Loc: Texas
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In reply to:
If this isn't an exaggeration, then this could potentially be a bug, depending on the mix of tunes existing on the player and the exact steps you used to create this situation in the first place.
What version of the firmware is the player running? How many tunes by how many different artists are on the player?
I usually listen to a playlist of about 1000 songs by about 40 artists, or a genre with about 150 tracks by 5 artists, and I definitely see at least to most recently played ordering, although not strictly so.
Real example: I was just listening to that genre, then did menu-play music-playlist-playlist1-play all tracks and I got:
4 tracks I re-ripped the other day and haven't listened to yet, three random tracks, 6 tracks by an artist I have two discs of, two random tracks, 7 more by the same artist of the previous run, then it looks somewhat random. After re-shuffling it still looks similar.
I have firmware 1.41.
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#200756 - 27/01/2004 16:58
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: mldarm]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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If you mess with this program, you can see that the 150-song case is always going to look funny in a shuffle even if it's completely random. That's just too few songs to get a decent distribution. 1000 songs is better, assuming the artists in question are evenly distributed.
However, if the player is genuinely doing a least-recently-played rather than a random, then I would think that would be a bug.
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#200757 - 27/01/2004 17:03
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: tfabris]
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new poster
Registered: 15/11/2003
Posts: 18
Loc: Texas
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I was just thinking- is it possible that there is some relation to whatever replacement method is chosen in the synchroniztion profile? I don't know offhand what mine is set to, but it's probably the default. However, that sounds like a bug to me too.
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#200758 - 27/01/2004 17:06
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: mldarm]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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The synchronization profile shouldn't be related to the shuffle mode.
On the other hand, if you've set your synch profile to cycle different tunes and artists into your player each time you dock it, then you might be seeing a side-effect of that. For instance, if you have told it to delete artists you've recently listened to and insert artists from the PC that you haven't heard in a while, then it might have fewer tunes on the player than you think.
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#200759 - 27/01/2004 17:08
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Well, it was one or the other. I should get both.
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#200760 - 27/01/2004 17:39
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Sorry to digress, but I still need more cowbell...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#200762 - 28/01/2004 12:59
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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However, if the player is genuinely doing a least-recently-played rather than a random, then I would think that would be a bug. Aha. I've confirmed from the inside that the player is doing a least-recently-played there, so it explains the behavior you're seeing. There's discussions going on about how best to prevent the undesired results you were seeing.
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#200763 - 14/02/2004 15:43
Re: Shuffle Mode
[Re: Daria]
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enthusiast
Registered: 09/06/2003
Posts: 297
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It makes me sad that all the mp3s are missing from: http://www.geekspeakweekly.com/cowbell/
-brendan
PS - I'm a big fan of Brendan Canty's use of a ship's bell, actually.
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