I know this has been discussed before, but people have had a chance to play with the Karma a bit longer now, so maybe their views will have changed one way or the other. For those of you who have owned both, what have you found to be the pros/cons of each? Just looking to compile a "definitive" list before taking the plunge for either one. Thanks.,

I own both along with a couple of other hard disk based players.Here's what I think.

Sound - The Karma sounds better. Even with the included earbuds, I think the Karma sounds slightly better than the iPod.

User Interface - The iPod is pretty basic here. The Karma far outshines it. The question is, though, how much do you really need? While the Karma does more, the iPod is easier to navigate.

Construction - I have to give the iPod the nod here. I do believe it's more solid than the Karma. The Karma just feels, well, cheap.

Software - RMM is pretty darn good for the Karma. It has a ton of features and for the most part does them all well. The iPod comes with Music Match, which is a POS. However, if you switch to something like Anapod or iTunes, that pretty much puts them on even playing fields.

Accessories - For the Karma, what accessories? No cases, remotes, etc for the Karma. For the iPod, you can get about anything you want. For some people that might not be a deal breaker but I personally like having a lot of gear to go with my player so it can be used in the manner I want to use it.

Data Portability - Again, the iPod gets the nod here. The Karma will do it but you need special software AND you have to have the dock. The iPod, you just plug it in and go. Also, because of lack of accessories, you cant buy extra docks (Although supposedly that is/was coming).

Stability - Im sure Ill get some flack over this but the iPod is more stable than the Karma. The Karma is much, much better than it was in the beginning but it still is not as stable as the iPod.

Warranty - Karma, 90 days. iPod, 1 year

I guess it all comes down to what's important to you. I dont think you can go wrong with either one, it's just a matter of getting whichever one suits your needs. I have a Karma, an IRiver IH-120 and an iPod. I probably use the iPod more than any of them mainly because I have a lot of cases for it and can carry it with me in about any situation I want.

Data Portability - Again, the iPod gets the nod here. The Karma will do it but you need special software AND you have to have the dock.

You only have to have the dock if you use a non-windows computer without an internet connection. If you have a Windows computer and the software CD (or an internet connection to grab the software), then you can do it with the USB cable.

The only thing the dock gains you is the ability to grab RMMlite directly off the player via ethernet. Not sure if the software CD has a loose copy of RMMlite or not.

Question: If I had a Macintosh version of the ipod and plugged its firewire cable into the PC, would it automatically appear as an external disk drive on the PC? If so, cool, kudos to Apple for that. If not, then it's really not any different than the converse situation with the Karma.

The Mac iPod should appear as a (mac) filesystem drive under Linux, but I don't know about under windows.

The Win-iPod should work under all three system types.

-ml

I dont think with the newer iPods there is a difference between the Mac and Windows versions anymore. When I bought mine, the guy told me they were all the same now.

The new Ipods reformat themselves automatically to the FAT32 format during their first installtion on a windows computer. Apple therefor now only has to deliver one type, instead of a separate FAT32 and HPFS version.

I dont think with the newer iPods there is a difference between the Mac and Windows versions anymore. When I bought mine, the guy told me they were all the same now..

Jelle

Stability - Im sure Ill get some flack over this but the iPod is more stable than the Karma. The Karma is much, much better than it was in the beginning but it still is not as stable as the iPod.

The Karma just provided music for my role playing session tonight, with quite a bit of use on the now and next screen, and in and out of the music selection area. Worked fine.

Same situation on an iPod usually has it locking up once during such use, even though the iPod had less features being used to play music. The ability to reorder the music coming up on the Karma was very useful, something the iPod couldn't do.

And while not stability related, in the 6 hours I used it, the Karma looks to have about 65% of the battery left. The iPod, well, the owner keeps his power brick with him for these sessions. True, his iPod is a year old now, but even if the Karma drops 50%, I will get about 8 hours of use out of it.

I'll post my review of my Karma in a few days. Was hoping to test it on the motorcycle, but we have snow on the ground again. Yesterdays 60 degree weather was an isolated event it seems for now.

instead of a separate FAT32 and HPFS version

Minor nitpick:

You mean HFS+. HPFS is OS/2's native filesystem.

Thats true that the Karma's battery is better than the iPod.. far as stability, my iPod has NEVER locked up. NEVER.. its never even choked on a song and I use it at least 2 hours a day.

The Karma is much improved with the new firmware and lockups are few and far between. I've only had a few on my replacement unit.