http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/06/02/HNappletoshdrive_1.html

And the Karma is still stuck at a measly 20gig.

Well, not that anybody really knows it exists anyway. I'm curious, does Rio even have an advertising budget? It is really amazing and really sad how badly Rio is getting completely smoked by Apple in every possible way. The vaporware 4gb Nitrus comes to mind. Please don't take personal offence Rob and the rest of the team, because you make good products, but the company you work for is clueless.

does Rio even have an advertising budget?

In a post somewhere on this BBS, Rob mentioned that they don't need one: they're selling the Karma as fast as they can make them.

Trust me. I know what it is like to work for a clueless company... (Couldn't resist, sorry - now back to our original thread...)

In a post somewhere on this BBS, Rob mentioned that they don't need one: they're selling the Karma as fast as they can make them.

Seems to me that the solution to that is to increase the production capacity, then market it.

Seems to me that the solution to that is to increase the production capacity, then market it.

Yeah, I'm no John Harvey-Jones but it certainly seems to me that this doesn't mean marketing hasn't got a problem, it just means production has a bigger problem.

Peter

Well, there is certainly a problem somewhere. How many Karmas are being sold compared to Ipods? One tenth? One hundreth? This from a company that wasn't even in the mp3 business before the Ipod came out. Rio has gone from the originator of the portable mp3 player to being a marginilized company no-one knows about, and somewhere in there is an interesting tale of how some people seriously screwed up.

"...and somewhere in there is an interesting tale..."

From my experience there, interesting isn't the word that comes to mind on this. I'm thinking "pathetic."

I 'spose I could be accused of still being bitter, unfortunately the evidence speaks for itself... sigh.

With the new Apple Lossless there are two things either one of which would be a Karma killer.

1 - gap-less playback of Apple Lossless files

or

2 - chapter support so you could skip tracks on "Join Tracks" files.

Either one would make me quit waiting for a higher capacity Karma and buy an iPod.

The Karma can do gapless playback. Including flac, I think. (Not certain of that one.)

Correct : FLAC, Ogg, Mp3, Wma and Wav.

I think Paul's question was whether FLAC would be gapless on Karma. Are you saying that it is?

If I remember correctly (important caveat), with the latest firmware, it is - or comes pretty close to it. When I was beta testing, I was concentrating more on MP3 because I have absolutely zero FLAC files in my library.

FLAC is certainly gapless on Karma. The only one in that list which I'm not sure about is WMA.

Having said that, there's reportedly a bug where if you insert tracks into the playlist one-by-one (i.e. you always Insert or Append while the last track in the playlist is playing) then the intervals aren't gapless. I haven't got round to checking this out yet, but even if true it'll be an isolated bug, which doesn't affect other playback situations, such as playing a whole album.

Peter

Yes, FLAC is gapless. I've also tried Ogg and that works great too.
The only format I've never tried is WMA (because I've got no Wma files in my collection), so I can't say anything about it being gapless or not.

FLAC is certainly gapless on Karma.

I know. That's why if the iPod could get this it would have the best of everything (for me.) It would have:

Lossless
Large Capacity
Great Styling
Robust Construction
Gap-less Playback

On second thought, there is still the battery life issue.

Now if a higher capacity Karma would come out I'd buy go to the store immediately. Capacity is all that is holding me back. I don't care about a color LCD (which is rumored in the next gen Karma.) In fact I hope that if a color LCD would decrease the battery life, Rio would stay away from it. The construction issue is a little doubt-inducing, but easily correctable with an extended service plan.

Just my 0.5 cents!

Rio has gone from the originator of the portable mp3 player to being a marginilized company no-one knows about, and somewhere in there is an interesting tale of how some people seriously screwed up.

In fact we have gone from being the largest digital audio brand to the second largest. That means we sell more players than Creative, Dell, iRiver, Philips, Nike, Sony, Archos, Panasonic and so on. Of course we would like to regain the top spot and that is certainly our long term goal.

With Apple spending almost as much as our entire gross income on marketing for the iPod alone, however, it will take a while. Nonetheless I would not consider taking the brand from a bankrupt company (with all the associated supplier, retailer, financial etc issues that go along with that) and putting it almost immediately into #2 sales ranking would be considered as seriously screwing up. Most of our competitors would love to be doing as "badly" as Rio.

Rob

New avatar???

GIR!

You too

I'm sure with a company like DNNA behind Rio they'll do very nicely thank you, at least they've got financial stability and I'd assume good reseller relationships and with Denon a rep for high quality

..and finally I've found the DVD! I'll destroy you all!

Rob

I think the big issue is that it's just...annoying. It's annoying to see a company like Apple pimping their product like a $20 hooker on sale for $2 and having it work so damned well. I mean if you really think about it, it's pretty rare that you see a whole lot of advertising for most mp3 players. Rio doesn't need more advertising; the product sells itself because it's that damn good. They do, however, need a better production/supply and they need better distribution contracts. Right now you can find an iPod damn near anywhere; Creative's are really easy to find too. Rio's, specifically Karma's, are a lot more difficult to find (unless this is purely an issue in Canada and I'm blowing steam out my ass) because in every store I've looked I've only ever found them in Best Buy. I can find a Nomad Junkbox in any one of 20 stores; but a Karma I have to go to one specific store, settle for their price on it, and live with it. Makes it a bit harder to bite down on. They do, also, need to get some in-store advertising going. TV and print ads are all well and good, but if it's sitting out there on a display that people can touch and try they're going to be more inclined to not only look harder at it but to end up buying it too...

Rio has one thing right, damn good products (with the exception of some very shoddy workmanship on my godforsaken dock). They just have a couple of things not so right :-p

They do, however, need a better production/supply and they need better distribution contracts.

I'd argue that distribution is ok, in the US anyway. I haven't seen any iPods in RatShack.

I'd argue that distribution is ok, in the US anyway. I haven't seen any iPods in RatShack.

It's almost non existent in the UK

It's almost non existent in the UK

It has been online until now. Check out a certain well known high street chain in a few weeks.

Rob

I'd agree with him on US distribution. I took one of my buddies into Best Buy to show him one as he was thinking of getting a MP3 player, and after asking where the MP3 portables were we found a single facing in the bottom corner of their players. Ipods were much more prominent in the store. I've had trouble locating them in stores other than Best Buy as well.

I've seen iPods and iRivers in RatShack.
I've also seen them, alongside Lyras and MD players in Future Shop (which is now a canadian subsidiary of Best Buy; which does sell the Karma while FS does not)

In Canada yeah. But then, Radioshack.ca think that they can still sell the RioRiot for C$500. But in the US you'll find Rio, a couple of RCA and a Nike. No iPods or iPod Minis.

Ratshack's pricing; Karma $300, Nitrus $170, Cali 256MB $150.

LOL that's just funny
I have yet to see a Rio product in any Radioshack store, including the RioRiot. I'm surprised it's even on their web site. I've brought my Karma into 3 different Rat Shacks; wanting to get a DC-DC car adapter for it. 2 people asked me wha tthe hell it was, 1 person said such a thing did not exist because of a "proprietary" connector on the bottom, 1 person told me he had no such thing but I could find one from Rio (which doesn't exist, thank you Rio...it'd be nice to get branded, factory accessories instead of buying Rat Shack crap and modding it...), and 1 person tried to sell me a 12v supply. I'm amused with them.

I'd like to see the Karma with the same distribution that the iPod has. Not only can I get it in damn near any large electronics store; but it's easy as hell to find it for a better price at some little store. I've tried looking for a karma in small shops...doesn't work.