Check out the best digital audio product in this month's PC World magazine (US version).

Rob

So how much do you have to pay to get something like that?

(Not saying the product in question is bad -- just pointing out the venality of the technology press.)

You don't pay anything to get that. You have to have a product that the journalist considers to be superior to the competing products - in this case the reviewer felt moved to specifically justify why he felt Karma took top place and not iPod.

We were quite pleased about it actually. Not everything is a cynical marketing ploy - we don't even advertise with them as far as I know. Sorry you feel it so unlikely we might get genuine recognition in a major publication!

Rob

I already disclaimed!!! It's right up there!! I didn't edit it or anything!

!!!!

I just meant to say that I'm surprised another company didn't buy it out from underneath you.

And, in general, kidding. Honestly.

Link


It's not as pretty as Apple's much-adored IPod (which finished a hotly debated second in our polling), but what the Rio Karma lacks in sex appeal, it makes up for in clever, usable features. It supports numerous audio formats (including Ogg Vorbis and FLAC), ships with a slick docking station that includes ethernet capabilities, and offers the pleasantly addictive Rio DJ, an on-board feature that generates playlists based upon your own listening habits. Add to that a long-lasting rechargeable battery and a reasonable price, and you have what Peter Rojas--editor of Engadget.com--calls the best player currently available for the power user. $300


Congrats and all for 250 USD. Not a pretty as the ipod I disagree !

Sorry you feel it so unlikely we might get genuine recognition in a major publication!

I think it comes as more of a suprise, since the tech review field has almost always given the nod to the iPod over the Karma, if the Karma was even reviewed. It seems this reviewer actually used the device for more then a matter of minutes.

It's similar to some of the reviews the empeg got. Some reviewers looked at it for a short time, and didn't have one long enough to enjoy having all their music at a touch of a button. So many people rated MP3 CD players above the empeg, because they could not see the value in the money spent on an empeg to avoid disc swapping altogther.

Congrats on the good review, and hopefully it is a much needed turning point with the public image of Rio vs Apple.

totally agree

if given a few minute sat at a desk then the ipod is better then the karma but use it for a few days and the karma whips ipods ass especially with the jemplode hierachical playlists

same as you can't get an empeg in ten minutes

Didn't mean to snap at you Bitt - bloody jet lag! It was a nice surprise to beat the iPod, and we even have an award flag for the office

Rob

Hey, no problem. I saw what time you posted (like 4AM your time?) and figured it might be something like that.

I'm proud of you, too.

Still, serves me right for being an all-around wise acre.

4 things that sold me on the Karma over the iPod; and keep me happy with my decision

- Battery, battery, battery. With all the bad press the iPod gets for it's battery, much less the fact that the Karma has better life to begin with....this is a big one

- Gapless! I bought an iRiver for about a week before I changed my mind and went with the Rio. With someone like me it's so annoying to hit next and have to wait a second for the track to queue up and find out it's not even a track you wanted to listen to....The iPod is even worse with that.

- Formats. Oh how I love my Ogg. 'nuff said.

- it isn't some trademark white box that everybody and their dog owns. Again, 'nuff said.

PC pro uk version also give you a reccomended

Said that MP3 handling was second to none which i have always thought was the secret to making an MP3 player

Now if there was just a compelling way to hook it up in car....

First recommendation is definitely to alter the formfactor of the next Karma. That's not to say make it the same as the iPod, but refine what was started with the first version. Toss the scroll wheel. These things are too promlematic on every device they're used in. Let's try to lessen the number of intricate mechanical UI components.

Keep the shape dock-friendly. In fact, make it more 3rd-party accessory friendly by losing the irregular contour. Definitely keep a docking connector on the bottom. Make sure it supports the following if it doesn't already: power, remote-control (duplicating all device buttons and more if possible), USB, ethernet, audio output - and that through the USB lines (likely) information that is relevant to the playlist(s) and playing tracks can easily be communicated. Third-party friendliness goes a long way to mass-market adoption.

Offer more than one storage size option. Choice is good. Having only a single size is more of a deterent than you might think. And enough reason to go shopping for a competing product.

Ramp production to be able to meet demand. Having items sell faster than you can get them on the shelves does not necessarily mean you have a hit on your hands, but it does mean you definitely have a production or supply problem.

An obvious one is not to over nor under-price the product. If it's as good as the iPod (as an example), then people will expct to pay a similar price. Too sharp a discount and it brings up questions of quality.

Don't validate the competition in your retail marketing materials or advertisements. Everyone knows the iPod. You don't have to ever mention Apple or their product in any media materials for public consumption. That's only a sure-fire way to stay in second place. Let the product stand on its own merits.

Do make bold statements about the performance, quality and versatility of the product. Make them in places the average consumer (note: NOT the average techy) will notice. Do make sure the product is available where a large percentage of normal people shop (Best Buy alone won't cut it).

And those are just simple recommendations. I would not be surprised if we saw a color iPod soon - whether it does any kind of video is anyone's guess though.

Bruno

Choice is good.

I remember reading an article about "buying psychology" related to choices. I wish I could remember where I saw it. Basically, given the choice between two products in a line priced at $50 and $75, most people would buy the $50 model unless they really required the additional features of the $75 model. Add a third model at $85 and suddenly the vast majority of people start buying the $75 model, ie most people generally choose to spend one model down from the top. It is all about justification apparently - the same people who would previously not justified the extra 50%, now cannot justify spending $50 to buy the model which must obviously be really lacking because there are two models better.

Strange but allegedly true.

First recommendation is definitely to alter the formfactor of the next Karma. That's not to say make it the same as the iPod, but refine what was started with the first version. Toss the scroll wheel. These things are too promlematic on every device they're used in. Let's try to lessen the number of intricate mechanical UI components.

I don't agree with that I like the square form factor better. It fits in my pocket and my hand better.

Keep the shape dock-friendly. In fact, make it more 3rd-party accessory friendly by losing the irregular contour. Definitely keep a docking connector on the bottom. Make sure it supports the following if it doesn't already: power, remote-control (duplicating all device buttons and more if possible), USB, ethernet, audio output - and that through the USB lines (likely) information that is relevant to the playlist(s) and playing tracks can easily be communicated. Third-party friendliness goes a long way to mass-market adoption.

I don't think the form factor has anything to do with 3rd party support. You get 3rd party accessories by selling more units. It doesn't matter how easy or hard it is if the companies will figure out how to make the accessories if the demand is there. The only mp3 player I have seen 3rd party stuff for is the ipod.

An obvious one is not to over nor under-price the product. If it's as good as the iPod (as an example), then people will expct to pay a similar price. Too sharp a discount and it brings up questions of quality.

Not necessarily, Apple products are over priced so I don't think people will think your product is crap just because it is cheaper than something from Apple.

The iPod was a struggling niche-market luxury when the accessory flood started. Take a look a the PDA market as well. Many accessories offer but a standard fit, not a custom one. Having a simple shape helps to get the ball rolling.

On the subject of form factor above, I didn't suggest a radical change to shape or function. Dropping the scroll wheel in favor of a non-mechanical way to achieve the same goal would have numerous benefits. Take a look at the touch-sensitive scrolly-thing on the new Creative Zen. Further, the Karma is not square. Well, it is, but it has a bulging tumor to hold the scroll wheel. I suggest making it a symmetrical rectangle. One that is close to the current overall dimensions sans tumor. Practically square.

There's only one product to gun after in this market segment (higher-end MP3 player) - and that's the iPod. I'm not even suggesting they can be beat until the application changes drastically. That's why I gave only simple suggestions, which I believe are quite solid. The next step is definitely bringing color and additional media into the mix (primarily video, but likely also still photographs).

Bruno

Well, in terms of shape, it could (should?) be ambidexterous. The shape was the first thing my left-handed GF commented on (negatively).

I thought the Karma was specifically designed for lefties, Hugo being one himself. Or am I remembering this wrong?

No but if I remember right there is some mode to make it easier to use left handed.

Here's my source.

The left handed mode rotates through 180 degrees, and remaps all of the controls correspondingly. This feature might have something to do with a certain empeg founder being left handed

Did that not make it to the final product?

That's what I was thinking of too. I didn't notice it wasn't on the Karma since I am right handed.

It is on the Karma, under Settings / Orientation.

It is on the Karma, under Settings / Orientation

I'm a southpaw, but I found it easier to work the Karma just as it is, the inverted stuff was harder to get my head round.

But then I play a guitar right handed and used to drive my mother mad swapping knives, forks and spoons and doing the whole thing both ways round, which I still do in my late 50's.

I best not let my south paw wife read this or she'll want one!

I'm left handed although the only thing I do with my left hand is write. Controlling mice, catching things, using utensils, etc. are all done with my right hand. As far as guitar playing is concerned, I can only play 'Michael Row The Boat Ashore' and that is right handed too.

Take yourself over to the Riovolution boards and check out the 40GB threads... Upgrading is possible these days... Maybe not advised, but possible.

Matthew