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#230692 - 14/08/2004 15:35 Rumors about the Karma
mwest
old hand

Registered: 01/05/2003
Posts: 768
Loc: Ada, Oklahoma
I posted on my blog the other day about my new Karma. An old acquaintence commented.
Quote:
The problem I have with it involves the compression techniques and how it screws with the files before actually putting them on the player.

I can't stand propriety in a product.




I can think of no basis for his statement or even a fact that could be misunderstood that would lead to this conclusion... Comments?


Edited by mwest (14/08/2004 15:37)

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#230693 - 14/08/2004 15:38 Re: Rumors about the Karma [Re: mwest]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Maybe he thought you said "Minidisk" or "ATRAC". lol
_________________________
Brad B.

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#230694 - 14/08/2004 15:41 Re: Rumors about the Karma [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
mwest
old hand

Registered: 01/05/2003
Posts: 768
Loc: Ada, Oklahoma
Although he doesn't say it, I'm pretty sure that he's an Ipod fan... I thought that's sort of like a sony fan complaining about something being proprietary.
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-Michael West

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#230695 - 14/08/2004 16:30 Re: Rumors about the Karma [Re: mwest]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
The only thing I can think of is that it uses RMM software to upload instead of the Karma being seen as a Windows drive. The files themselves are all standard formats.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#230696 - 14/08/2004 18:13 Re: Rumors about the Karma [Re: pgrzelak]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
He may also misunderstand the meaning of proprietary. Maybe he thinks the files are being "molested" on their way to the player by having normalization or something?

Good point on the iPod using AAC.
_________________________
Brad B.

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#230697 - 14/08/2004 19:04 Re: Rumors about the Karma [Re: mwest]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
I can see a few possible reasons he'd say that, and all of them involve misunderstanding the Karma...

1. He thinks it's an iPod which plays the proprietary AAC format. But even that would be a misunderstanding since the iPod also plays non-proprietary MP3s.

2. He is complaining about data compression in general, and doesn't totally understand it. If so, he's missing the point of all portable MP3 players. If that's what he's complaining about, then he's probably an audiophile who's very adamant about playing non-lossy music. If that's the case, point out that the Karma will also play FLAC if desired (a non-lossy format). It just takes up about five times more disk space, spins up the hard disk more, and uses up the battery faster.

3. He somehow thinks that the Rio Music Manager software modifies the files, which it doesn't. It leaves the files intact and is merely a front-end to player's internal database. If that's the case, explain to him that the files aren't "messed with", they're just organized into the player's internal database. Explain that the player is lightning-quick with all of its searches and lists, it plays gapless, it caches aggressively and can keep the hard disk spun down, and it can crossfade. The only way to do this efficiently is if it handles its songs in its own database format and doesn't let you put the files on the player's hard disk willy-nilly.

You could also point him over here so he can ask technical questions and get technical answers.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#230698 - 14/08/2004 20:45 Re: Rumors about the Karma [Re: tfabris]
daPyr0x
stranger

Registered: 14/03/2004
Posts: 43
Quote:
The only way to do this efficiently is if it handles its songs in its own database format and doesn't let you put the files on the player's hard disk willy-nilly.

Seeing as the player can build the database on it's own (I assumed that was what it does when it asks to hit the riostick after transfer...but I'm guessing not); wouldn't it be possible to allow you to put the files on the Karma 'willy-nilly' and it builds the database itself? Granted, it would eat more battery power...but most people who'd be transferring files would (one would hope) have it plugged in as well...

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#230699 - 15/08/2004 03:08 Re: Rumors about the Karma [Re: daPyr0x]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Quote:
Seeing as the player can build the database on it's own; wouldn't it be possible to allow you to put the files on the Karma 'willy-nilly' and it builds the database itself?

Yes. The newly released Carbon does this, and based on posts over on "that other board" by Rio employees, this is likely to make it to the Karma at a future date.

Quote:
proprietary AAC format

Standard AAC format you mean, right?

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#230700 - 15/08/2004 04:28 Re: Rumors about the Karma [Re: drakino]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Maybe they mean Apple's proprietary encryption of AAC files.
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Bitt Faulk

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#230701 - 15/08/2004 09:27 Re: Rumors about the Karma [Re: mwest]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
I can think of no basis for his statement or even a fact that could be misunderstood that would lead to this conclusion... Comments?

All Sony "MP3" players, even hard-disk ones, work in the way which your friend disparages: the PC software transcodes to ATRAC. He's right that such players suck; he's just wrong about all MP3 players working that way.

Peter

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#230702 - 16/08/2004 13:00 Re: Rumors about the Karma [Re: wfaulk]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
Quote:
Maybe they mean Apple's proprietary encryption of AAC files.


The DRM doesn't encrypt them does it? At least it doesn't seem like it when I use hymn to remove the DRM. It appears to be a standard AAC file at that point (with the .m4a extentsion). I could be wrong though.
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~ John

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#230703 - 16/08/2004 13:53 Re: Rumors about the Karma [Re: JBjorgen]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
DRM wouldn't be very useful if it didn't encrypt. Hymn decrypts it so you get the AAC data back.

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#230704 - 16/08/2004 16:30 Re: Rumors about the Karma [Re: tman]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
es muy rapido...

I just didn't realize it was decrypting that fast. Seems to do its thing in less than a second.
_________________________
~ John

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