#237969 - 17/10/2004 14:31
New Home Ideas
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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My wife and I are getting ready to build a new home in the Spring and I'm about to meet with our architech. Does anyone here any bits of wisdom to offer? I know I want to network the home and will probably run conduit throughout, even to the garage, but I'm not sure if they should all run to one place? I guess I can look that up. But any tips on anything from doorways to counterspace would be appreciated! 
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Brad B.
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#237970 - 17/10/2004 14:39
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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All one place, where you know you'll have enough space for some wall-mounted equipment, and if you're insane, a rack, is ideal. I wish I'd run conduit and not pulled wire, but so far it's ok. When I *need* cat6 I might be sad, but we pulled dual cat5 everywhere.
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#237971 - 17/10/2004 15:01
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Some random tidbits (we looked at building originally and even had some plans, but stumbled onto a house that we really liked and bought instead): 1) You may think you have enough kitchen cabinets. You always need more kitchen cabinets 2) Not sure what kind of house you're looking at. We have a log home, and one really annoying thing about exposed wood interior walls is that they are rough and hold dust. So it's REALLY hard to keep the inside clean. 3) Not sure if you're into it, but when we were looking at building vs buying, I was going to build in a home-theater room. It's often hard to take an existing room and make it a really good theater if it's not designed for it. 4) In the main room we have one side that is all windows. It's really hard to watch TV during the day because there is a huge glare. If you care about such things, be mindful of window placement 5) Take advantage of the sun -- position your house so you can use the sun to heat in the winter. 6) We have a geothermal heating unit in our house. It has pipes running under the ground where it is a constant 57 degrees so during the summer, air conditioning is close to free. It is more expensive to install, but if you're going to be in the house for a while, it will pay off. Plus it's kind of cool. 7) You can never have too many power outlets. 8) You should prewire network AND cable/satellite jacks. You'll probably want both. 9) Everyone I talked to who built vs bought said be prepared to pay 10% more than whatever you're quoted. 10) Double-check everything. A buddy of mine built a house and paid to have a particular networking package installed. It turns out the one they installed used cheaper cables/jacks than what he actually paid for. 11) Are you already in a house? If not, there's so much crap that you're going to have to buy. Just be prepared ... Lawnmowers, weed wackers, etc. I felt like every time I turned around I was buying something new for the first 6 months or so. It will end, but it feels like it won't. ms
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#237972 - 17/10/2004 15:17
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Thanks guys, those are some great ideas. I'm fortunate that my family owns a constuction business (and that's my job now). This won't make things much cheaper, but I'm hoping to call on a few favours with some of our usual sub-contractors (I've helped them in the past.) The real advantage is that I'll be able to make sure things are done right because I'll be overseeing everything and the people doing the work want to do work with us for years to come.  We've already found floorplans that we like in a book, but we made some changes to lower costs and tailor the house to us better. The house has a basement however, so I'm not sure that it'll work with the in-floor heating? Thanks for the tip on the interior walls. Our main trade is masonry, so I was thinking about having some interior walls have exposed brick, but how do you dust brick? Since we'll have a basement, a few years down I'd like to have a home theater room there because you can control the light best (and prevent waking people up a little) but I'm sure my wife will like having a TV upstairs for the kids to watch.. I'll have to thnk about that glare issue. My rear projection can be really bad in high light situations before glare is even as issue. Satellite is going to be a pain... can run splitters on them like you can cable. But I love my DirecTivo!
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Brad B.
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#237973 - 17/10/2004 15:32
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: mschrag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Some random tidbits (we looked at building originally and even had some plans, but stumbled onto a house that we really liked and bought instead):
5) Take advantage of the sun -- position your house so you can use the sun to heat in the winter.
Better yet, be prepared for solar panels on your roof by having your roof set up right; they'll come down in price soon.
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6) We have a geothermal heating unit in our house. It has pipes running under the ground where it is a constant 57 degrees so during the summer, air conditioning is close to free. It is more expensive to install, but if you're going to be in the house for a while, it will pay off. Plus it's kind of cool.
Very cool. Get it now while it's easy to do. Plus, you can possibly get incentives to do it.
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7) You can never have too many power outlets.
Agree.
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8) You should prewire network AND cable/satellite jacks. You'll probably want both.
Yes. Definitely. Maybe not even bother with phone, and skip to VOIP.
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#237974 - 17/10/2004 16:40
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
I'm fortunate that my family owns a constuction business (and that's my job now).
Good for you! I'm currently in the process of being discouraged by home buying right now, too. I'd love to build.
You say you've found a printed floorplan you like and are making tweaks, but one of my best friends is an architect and he points out that the cost of designing a house is such a small fraction of the final cost of the house, that it's stupid to use one of those pre-designed plans. So I'd suggest that unless you really love that floorplan (or are stuck with it for some reason -- subdivision or whatever) you might consider designing something that's perfect for you.
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Bitt Faulk
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#237975 - 17/10/2004 17:45
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: mschrag]
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member
Registered: 10/09/2004
Posts: 127
Loc: Bay Area, CA/Anchorage, AK
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A great altrnative to more kitchen cabinets is a pantry--"walk-in" if you'll have the space. A note of caution for kitchen planning: both granite for counters and tile are in vogue at the moment, and look beautiful, but: anything that even falls over on a granite counter promptly shatters; ditto tile--although something that falls on the tile may chip it as well. Granite or marble need regular maintenance--just one more thing--and standing for any period of time on tile while you prepare/cook gets very old--especially as we get older(!)--it's hard on the joints and back.
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#237976 - 17/10/2004 17:58
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I'm so jealous!
I'd agree with the conduit, so much easier to upgrade later. I'd run up to four coax, at least 3 or 4 cat 5/6 (i'd probably run the phone over a couple if needs be), some starquad maybe even fiber. Everything running to a central point in the basement next to my SGI Onyx.....mmmm drool...... sorry drifted off for a moment there.
If you're interesting in building dream houses, try and track down a couple of episodes of 'Grand Designs' which is shown on Channel 4. Last week they had a couple who turned an old waterworks into a really cool house.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#237977 - 17/10/2004 18:17
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Some things I'm keeping in mind for the possibility of building my own house:
1) Regular height counters suck. I'm 6'3", and regular counters are at the height of my knuckles when my arms are straight, which makes the counters, not to mention the sinks, uncomfortable to use.
2) Since I'm tall, over-the-counter storage space is far more valuable than under-the-counter storage space. I hate squatting down to get stuff.
3) Get a double sink in the kitchen. If you have the counterspace to spare (such as on a kitchen island), add an additional sink, even if it's just half-size. Very handy for dinner parties. Get a sink style with a spray-hose.
4) Get a gas stove.
5) Get good lighting over all the counters. Traditionally, light in a kitchen comes from a) the window over the sink, and b) the lamp in the middle of the ceiling. Unless you're at the sink, whatever you're doing is in shadow because you're blocking the light from the ceiling. (Maybe this is just because I'm tall.)
6) Unless you're using wireless, put a network jack in the kitchen for easy access to that on-line cookbook.
7) Make sure that *all* cracks between floor, ceiling, moulding, etc. are sealed. Do this before the cabinetry is put into place. Ants suck. Ants coming from a location you can't get to suck even more.
8) Floor to ceiling shelves for your book/dvd/lavalamp collection. Attach them to the wall so they don't tip over when your children/cats climb on them.
9) Not-white paint (as opposed to off-white, or just white). A good yellow can do wonders for a room.
10) Make sure lightswitches are in logical places. You'd be surprised. In my brother's house, the lightswitch by the stairs operates the light in the hall, and the lightswitch in the hall operates the light in the kitchen, and the lightswitch at the top of the stairs operates the light for the bathroom. It makes *no* sense at all.
11) Get a bathtub you can fit into. (You might not have this problem if you're shorter than I am.)
12) If you can, run the hot-water pipes behind the wall where your bathroom mirror is.
13) Don't put carpet in the bathroom (I've seen it done, and it just ends up stinking like piss).
14) Put cabinets in the bathroom, not just shelves. Keep your toothbrush in the cabinet.
15) In-wall/ceiling speakers in all the common-rooms, switched so you can turn them off individually, or use a different source. It's annoying to be doing chores that take you from room-to-room, and have your music disappear on you, because your stereo/tv is in another room. (Okay, I doubt this one will ever make it off the wish list...)
16) Mirrored sliding closet doors rule!
17) If you have pets, go with hardwood floors. Vacuuming pet-hair off the carpets is a huge pain.
18) Be aware that exposed brick on the interior can be problematic for some people, particularly as it ages.
19) Lots of power outlets, and lots of breakers. Put an outlet on every wall. Don't put your power outlets on the same circuits as your overhead lights.
Hmm... that's all I can think of at the present.
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#237978 - 17/10/2004 19:02
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: canuckInOR]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
1) Regular height counters suck. I'm 6'3", and regular counters are at the height of my knuckles when my arms are straight, which makes the counters, not to mention the sinks, uncomfortable to use.
If you do some sort of non standard height cabinets then be aware that if you ever sell the house then this may be seen as a disadvantage.
Quote:
6) Unless you're using wireless, put a network jack in the kitchen for easy access to that on-line cookbook.
Run multiple wires to each socket even if you only install a single jack plate there. It's all good and stuff having conduit so you can add more but it's still a lot easier to have it there in the first place. Wire is cheap.
If you're looking into having a lighting system put in (and I don't mean X10) then you may also want to run Cat5 & mains from a central wiring closet to each switch, light and wall socket. Nearly all the proper lighting systems require a dedicated signal wire as mains transmission is slow and unreliable i.e. X10. Having a standard mains run as well from the wall switch to the light means you can revert it to a standard system easily if you ever leave so you can take all the bits with you.
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#237980 - 18/10/2004 07:27
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: canuckInOR]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Quote:
19) Lots of power outlets, and lots of breakers. Put an outlet on every wall. Don't put your power outlets on the same circuits as your overhead lights.
Use an electrician/electrical engineer to design and install your wiring, unless you really know the codes/regs insude out. Techies tend to think they know how to install wiring but the devil is most definately in the detail (minimum bend radii, safe zones, correct torques) - this is what an over-confident techie is likely to miss (and the unfortionate thing with lecky is that it works even when the design is wrong). Having said that, here are some things to think about before or while talking to the designer...
The advice about lots of socket-outlets is particularly good. Put at least 8 outlets together at each location you might have your main TV or HiFi system (unless you go the home theatre route). The advice about socket-outlets on each wall is also very good - most rooms have 4 walls, so place at least one double outlet on each wall. Always use double outlets unless you physically don't have the space (difference in price is minimal) - even in halls and in the loft/attic.
Make sure that all sockets that could possibly be used to power outside electrical equipment are protected by an RCD. You may find that where you are, even upstairs sockets have to be protected by an RCD.
In the kitchen and utility room, consider putting each socket outlet on a seperate breaker (this increases the cost a little and is typically only done by electricians and knowledgeable home owners for their own houses- not for paying clients). At a minimum, put the fridge, freezer, washing machine, tumble dryer and microwave on seperate circuits.
If you are going to have a pantry cupboard or cupboard to house a combi boiler in the kitchen or utility room, seriously consider locating the electrical consumer unit (fuse box) (and meter if you have meters located inside the house in your area) inside the cupboard in the kitchen. This will shorten the length of the circuits supplying these rooms, which makes installation easier and cheaper (cheaper because there is less labour needed - wire is dead cheap).
Uplighters (wall washers) require absolutely perfect plaster. Perfect plaster is even harder to achieve when you want a rustic look rather than absolutely flat. Downlighters (spots) require fire hoods if they are below a room on the floor above. You can buy downlighters for £2 or $2 each but a hood will cost around $12 or £12.
If you have multiple lights in a room, make sure to provide multiple switches so that you can turn them on and off individually to change the mood. Be careful when specifying luminairres - fluorescents, halogens, extra low voltage lighting and low energy lamps don't like being dimmed using standard dimming equipment and often need special, expensive ballasts to achieve this.
LED lighting is great for accent lighting such as cabinet lights, kitchen plinth lights and to define/draw attention to steps and stairs, but has a very low light output (the newest lamps are equivalent to 20W) so are unsuitable for pretty much anything else.
If you choose not to put your lighting circuits on an RCD (some designers suggest not because a fault on another RCD protected circuit will knock out all the lights) and you have young children, consider specifying safety pendants - these make it impossible to jamb a finger into the fitting and receive an electric shock.
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#237981 - 18/10/2004 10:13
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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I only have one suggestion: cast iron main vertical drains instead of PVC.
There's nothing nice about listening to crap whoosh down the 4" PVC pipe during breakfast, and the differential cost is not that huge.
-Zeke
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WWFSMD?
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#237984 - 18/10/2004 12:07
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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You know that room that everyone has in their house and never uses? Leave it out. Like that formal dining room that gets used only at Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter (or whatever holidays you celebrate.) Don't bother. Save yourself the cost of 150 sq. feet or use it for a room that you will use regularly.
Do 9 ft. ceilings in the rooms you will spend a lot of time in. It will open things up alot and make the house look much roomier.
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~ John
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#237985 - 18/10/2004 12:17
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Or, if you're concerned about resale value, put in those rooms but design them in such a way that they can be used as both their "intended" purpose and something useful for you. Like I want to find a house that has a dining room we can put a lot of bookshelves in and use as a library.
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Bitt Faulk
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#237986 - 18/10/2004 12:22
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Do 9 ft. ceilings in the rooms you will spend a lot of time in. It will open things up alot and make the house look much roomier.
Low ceilings is something I hate about modern houses (and ancient houses -- the Georgians and Victorians lived on a little temporal island of proper ceilings in a sea of oppressive rooms). If you get the option, go for 9ft everywhere, and think about 10ft or more in reception rooms. I've been in Georgian townhouses with 11ft ceilings and it wasn't excessive.
Peter
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#237987 - 18/10/2004 13:01
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: wfaulk]
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/03/2003
Posts: 269
Loc: Wellingborough, UK
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Quote:
Here in the US we use gypsum board, buddy. Take your commie European "plaster" back where you came from!
Actually, (British) Gypsum board is very common in the building trade here, too. Don't know how you guys do it, but here a thin plaster skim is applied to the board once it is up, screwed and taped. Still requires an experienced plasterer to get a perfect finish.
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#237988 - 18/10/2004 13:23
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: mdavey]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quality builders do that, but it's fairly rare, IME. Usually just a coat of paint or two.
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Bitt Faulk
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#237989 - 19/10/2004 02:18
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: mdavey]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Quote:
19) Lots of power outlets, and lots of breakers. Put an outlet on every wall. Don't put your power outlets on the same circuits as your overhead lights.
Use an electrician/electrical engineer to design and install your wiring, unless you really know the codes/regs insude out.
Oh, yes. I wasn't intending to suggest otherwise -- I'd never do my own wiring. All I was thinking about for the last half of that is that I hate it when you have a lightswitch that operates the overhead light, plus the socket, so you can only use the socket if the light's on. Right now, for example, I can't use the socket by the door for charging batteries, even though it's the handiest location, because I'd have to leave the front door light burning all night.
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#237990 - 19/10/2004 02:27
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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I think the way it works is if you just get sheetrock they tape the joints, sand, and paint. If you get a plaster job they use someother kind of wall board and coat the entire surface with plaster. I'm betting Brad knows more about it than all of us
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Matt
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#237991 - 19/10/2004 03:48
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: mdavey]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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Quote:
Use an electrician/electrical engineer to design and install your wiring, unless you really know the codes/regs inside out. Techies tend to think they know how to install wiring but the devil is most definitely in the detail (minimum bend radii, safe zones, correct torques) - this is what an over-confident techie is likely to miss (and the unfortunate thing with lecky is that it works even when the design is wrong). Having said that, here are some things to think about before or while talking to the designer...
It seems like this is problematic in many ways. I've received an AMP certification for cable installation and have seen some troubled installs. One of my friends recently built a house and asked me to help him design the network runs. The builders had their own guy to do the install, and his stuff clashed with the electrical stuff. For example the inspector would not pass the network wiring unless it was all stapled to 2 by 4's. That sounds like pressure you do not want on the cable. Then this guy terminated each pair backwards from the standards (orange - white/orange etc...). Not a big deal, until he needs to re-punch the cable. So the hard part is getting someone who will get both aspects right. I don't know the NEC, and I'm sure most electricians don't know networking standards. You would definitely need to talk with whoever is doing your net install to make sure it's right. I would say run the cable all to one place. All my cable runs to one location to a 24 port patch panel I just got off ebay. It makes my installation much cleaner, and easier to manage with the patch panel than a bunch of wires dangling from the ceiling. Good luck!
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-Michael
#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons
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#237992 - 19/10/2004 03:52
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Quote:
Uplighters (wall washers) require absolutely perfect plaster.
Here in the US we use gypsum board, buddy. Take your commie European "plaster" back where you came from!
I have gypsum wallboard with a skim coat of plaster over it.
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#237993 - 19/10/2004 03:55
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
I only have one suggestion: cast iron main vertical drains instead of PVC.
There's nothing nice about listening to crap whoosh down the 4" PVC pipe during breakfast, and the differential cost is not that huge.
This came up in a discussion I was having with someone recently, but I don't remember why. We came to the same conclusion: a cast iron sewer stack is superior. And unrelated, needing to snake the kitchen sink drain pipe? Nasty.
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#237994 - 19/10/2004 05:09
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: Waterman981]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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I just punched down a house for someone who's electrician was incompetent when it came to network wiring. In rooms with more than one network jack, one cat5 cable was run to the first jack, then onto the seccond jack. Seeing the one jack they'd punched down with wire taps of some sort on each of the 8 wires going off to the other jack was something else. I repunched everything else they'd started on after seeing that one jack.
The moral of the story: Find someone who knows what they're doing. If you're paying good money, they should be certifying the cable runs to a standard. (be it cat5, cat5e, or cat6)
Matthew
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#237995 - 19/10/2004 06:41
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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I liked the idea of the first types of vacuum cleaners - keep a powerful one in the basement and then have an outlet in each room. It looks like you can get them today: http://builtinvacuum.com/index.htmlThe other thing that is nice are bathrooms with tiled floors and a floor drain. Much easier to keep clean. Gareth
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#237996 - 19/10/2004 09:36
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: g_attrill]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
The other thing that is nice are bathrooms with tiled floors and a floor drain. Much easier to keep clean.
Oh yeah, wet rooms look really cool.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#237997 - 19/10/2004 11:18
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: g_attrill]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quote:
I liked the idea of the first types of vacuum cleaners - keep a powerful one in the basement and then have an outlet in each room. It looks like you can get them today:
http://builtinvacuum.com/index.html
A concept of which I have personal experience, going back many years: Fine 'till you've got a blockage, then, only one Company can help you out, the manufacturer/installer: And do they charge. Which isn't to say that things might not have improved over the years.
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#237998 - 19/10/2004 11:27
Re: New Home Ideas
[Re: g_attrill]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Isn't it part of your constitution to have a vacuum cleaner in your basement?
"George says that every American should have a vacuum cleaner in their basement."
Edited by tman (19/10/2004 11:30)
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