#244586 - 23/12/2004 09:50
Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
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new poster
Registered: 02/11/2004
Posts: 15
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The other day, I was testing on a sprint/slalom course in my Lotus Elise with the Empeg mounted in the dash (powered off of course). After a few runs, on the next start the car flew off the line but the Empeg didn't. It flew from its sled into the cabin instead!
Luckily I had a passenger on board so it just embedded itself into his legs, which are considerably softer than the bare aluminium floor. No damage to the Empeg. Only a minor scream of pain from the passenger (apparently, he was thankful it hadn't landed a few inches further back or it would have been in a very sensitive place).
However, I'd like to be able to stop it happening again. I mean, I don't always have a nice soft passenger for it to land on. Also, this was in the wet - in the dry the car will be making even faster starts and I presume that'll make the Empeg fall out of the sled more easily. Is there anything I can do to make it stay put a bit better, but still be removable every now and then to add new music etc?
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#244587 - 23/12/2004 10:24
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: CMU]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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I don't know why but I found that post hilarious  Sorry I can't think of any way to keep the empeg in place. Electrical tape?
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#244588 - 23/12/2004 11:51
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Perhaps the empeg is not locking into place properly. Do you have an unbent sled?
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#244589 - 23/12/2004 12:14
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: pgrzelak]
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new poster
Registered: 02/11/2004
Posts: 15
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The sled has all four lips bent correctly. The hooks operated by the handles are a little worn and rounded, but they do slot properly through the holes as they should.
I guess that it doesn't help that the Elise's stereo DIN face is totally vertical so the Empeg is entirely horizontal - no slant. Not much I can do about that though.
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#244590 - 23/12/2004 12:52
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: CMU]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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If the force is enough, the "locks" will just lift the handle up the small amount they need to disengage.
You could have new locks made that engage more positively, maybe with a hook instead of just an angle.
Or you could just find a piece of rubber to put inside the sled (or on the empeg, I suppose) that would create much more friction than metal-on-metal.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#244591 - 23/12/2004 13:21
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: wfaulk]
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new poster
Registered: 02/11/2004
Posts: 15
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Hmm, my car will produce just about 1.1G on a good start. It won't do that for long - maybe for half a second or so, but that's equivelent to holding the empeg facing directly downwards in its sled and jiggling it about a bit. I tried that before installing the Empeg, and predictably enough it fell out so I was half-expecting problems!
I'm fairly handy with a dremel, so will have a look at making more positive hooks. Well, modifying the existing hooks at least.
I quite like the rubber sheet idea too, although it would have to be quite a thin sheet to fit. The sled is well made and a nice accurate fit against the Empeg itself. I reckon it wouldn't need much area to increase the friction by quite a lot, given the closeness of fit already. Perhaps a pair of thin strips on the sled running from the front to the back, so they have more resistance to peeling while the unit is being removed/refitted.
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#244592 - 23/12/2004 15:08
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: CMU]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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When I auto-cross my WRX, I pull the empeg and the sub from the car. Are you listening to it while driving ?
_________________________
Brad B.
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#244593 - 23/12/2004 15:12
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: CMU]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Better hooks won't do you any good unless the springs that clamp the handle down are also stronger. You'll have to work on both. Remember when you've got the player dismantled to work on that stuff, use extra caution as described here, especially the part about plugging in the display cable correctly. May I also just take a moment and say that the empeg's mounting system was designed with passenger cars in mind rather than race cars...
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#244594 - 23/12/2004 15:53
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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new poster
Registered: 02/11/2004
Posts: 15
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Quote:
When I auto-cross my WRX, I pull the empeg and the sub from the car. Are you listening to it while driving ?
I do listen to it whilst driving to/fron the event. Now I've seen it happen I'll be removing it for the performance driving part of any events obviously. The car isn't just a competition car though; I use it daily for a 50 mile round trip to work and back and wouldn't want to use any other car for the journey. I still don't want the Empeg flying out with an 'enthusiastic' pull away from traffic lights etc.
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#244595 - 23/12/2004 16:00
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: tfabris]
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new poster
Registered: 02/11/2004
Posts: 15
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Quote:
May I also just take a moment and say that the empeg's mounting system was designed with passenger cars in mind rather than race cars...
That's fair enough, but I bet Hugo has an Empeg in his Noble (I forgot to ask when I saw him at a wedding recently). The M12 GTO is considerably faster accelerating than a standard Elise such as mine!
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#244596 - 23/12/2004 16:03
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Better hooks won't do you any good unless the springs that clamp the handle down are also stronger.
Untrue. Currently, the hooks are just angled to catch the slot in the sled. If they were engineered to be curved on the interior, creating a concave slot for the sled's sheet metal to catch in, they would be much more resistant to sliding out in the manner described.
When the hooks push back, they also move downward. If you can prevent that downward motion, you can prevent the backward motion, too.
Doing this is likely to require some headroom on top of the sled, but that's probably not an issue.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#244598 - 28/12/2004 20:54
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: CMU]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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<sigh>You have a very nice problem. I'd like to have a car that could toss the empeg of its harness...
While this might not be a good solution from an aesthetic point of view, a small catch that rotates 90 degrees to lock the empeg in place would be very functional. With a nice stainless screw holding it to the dash, and a some custom dremel work on a piece of nylon or other black plastic, you could probably get a good organic shape that would look pretty decent. This would have the advantage of not having to mess with the somewhat clockwork lock levers on the precious empeg. Levers like this are often used to keep things from flying about on heeling boats. Just a thought.
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#244599 - 03/01/2005 08:45
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: CMU]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
May I also just take a moment and say that the empeg's mounting system was designed with passenger cars in mind rather than race cars...
That's fair enough, but I bet Hugo has an Empeg in his Noble (I forgot to ask when I saw him at a wedding recently). The M12 GTO is considerably faster accelerating than a standard Elise such as mine!
Not had any problems with my player flying out of my (also horizontal) DIN slot in the Noble. I guess quite a bit of it is down to the strength of your handle springs, as these keep the handle down and hence the player locked in position.
Are the spings on both sides of the handle still there? It's not uncommon for one to get lost...
Hugo
ps And when exactly did you get yourself an empeg? 
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#244600 - 04/01/2005 21:51
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: CMU]
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addict
Registered: 07/03/2002
Posts: 504
Loc: Southern California
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Had same issues in one of my "fast" cars once with an older Kenwood pullout that used the same idea as the Empeg to keep it in-place. For me it was just a matter of finding a way to make sure the handle didn't fly-back during acceleration. The hooks are enough as long as the handle doesn't move. Find a way to secure your Empeg's handle when it's in it's sled and I bet you'll solve the problem.
_________________________
Bodybag - So Cal
Not a Whiner any more!!!
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#244601 - 05/01/2005 00:02
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: CMU]
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member
Registered: 07/10/2000
Posts: 112
Loc: CA, USA
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<< Is there anything I can do to make it stay put a bit better, but still be removable every now and then to add new music etc?>>
Maybe you could remove a few links from the handle's springs? While I always pull my empeg/amp before heading to the track (Willow Springs 2.5 mile "Big Track"), I have never had a problem with my empeg on the street. I drive w. 345 Pilot Cups and 770 HP at the rear, and have never launched my empeg when it was fully seated. My sled is slightly raked facing up, so maybe that has helped. I would modify or replace the springs.
Sean
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#244602 - 05/01/2005 02:25
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: bodybag]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Find a way to secure your Empeg's handle when it's in it's sled and I bet you'll solve the problem.
Tips on tightening the handle springs are here.
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#244603 - 07/01/2005 15:08
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: altman]
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new poster
Registered: 02/11/2004
Posts: 15
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Quote:
Are the spings on both sides of the handle still there? It's not uncommon for one to get lost...
Took it all appart a couple of days ago to check. Both springs present, but both looking old and rusty, and not particularly strong. I've dremel'd a notch like it says in te FAQ to stretch the springs a little more. Seems a lot more positive now, although I'm not sure how long it'll last as the springs are presumably still deteriorating. I'll keep a look out for replacement springs though.
Initial testing seems to show the Empeg stays in place for 'enthusiastic' road driving...
Quote:
ps And when exactly did you get yourself an empeg?
Must have been a couple of weeks before this post:
http://empegbbs.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/242616/an/0/page/0
So not that long ago. I've wanted one ever since the Mk1. In fact, before that even - since when I first saw the original concept device in your MX5 at uni. I couldn't afford one back then, so set about building my own less elegant, cheaper device. It worked well for about 4 years, but developed a motherboard fault recently. The cost of a new motherboard was significantly more than the cost of a typical Empeg from eBay, so it was a no brainer really.
And I'm thoroughly happy with it, of course! I spent a painful couple of months with a basic cassette player in the car, and my driving got slowly worse over that time! The final straw was driving 850 miles to Germany and back with nothing but Belgian radio to keep me awake!
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#244604 - 15/06/2005 22:45
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: bodybag]
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new poster
Registered: 02/11/2004
Posts: 15
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Finally got this problem sorted out and thoroughly tested... Quote:
Find a way to secure your Empeg's handle when it's in it's sled and I bet you'll solve the problem.
That was the trick. A very thin strip of velcro along the back side of the handle totally stops it from moving with force pressed from the hooks. Placing it at the bottom of the handle gives it a fair mechanical advantage as it is a long lever compared to the hooks above the handle. Plus, lifting the handle means you're pulling against hte velcro directly so it comes apart easily.
This solution stood up to a full day of sprint testing recently. Lots of max acceleration standing starts in the dry, and no loss of Empeg.
Not sure why I didn't think of Velcro before. I use it to hold the rest of the car together already. Handy stuff.
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#244605 - 15/06/2005 23:21
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: CMU]
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addict
Registered: 04/09/2004
Posts: 527
Loc: Oklahoma
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Quote:
Is there anything I can do to make it stay put a bit better...
Two words....DUCT TAPE!!!
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#244606 - 16/06/2005 12:05
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: CMU]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
This solution stood up to a full day of sprint testing recently.
Shouldn't you be trying to reduce your weight?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#244607 - 16/06/2005 15:36
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: wfaulk]
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new poster
Registered: 02/11/2004
Posts: 15
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For competition, yes. The other day was just testing though. It's nice to know that no matter how badly I treat it (track or road), it still won't be injuring my passengers.
That said, in a 720kg car with another 70kg of driver, an extra 1kg of Empeg won't make a lot of difference to laptimes. I probably lose that much weight in fuel each run, and I don't go to the bother of running with a nearly empty tank and filling up between runs. At the sort of club competition level I'm entering, the driver makes by far and away the biggest difference.
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#244608 - 22/06/2005 12:09
Re: Is my car too fast for an Empeg?!
[Re: CMU]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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I still reckon the simplest solution to this would have just been a pair of new springs. 
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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