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#253650 - 07/04/2005 14:54 Americans and diesel
thinfourth2
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
Over here in europe we are getting more and more cars with diesel engines. Some of which are getting very impressive like BMW 535d a twin turbo diesel which can be tuned up to over 300bhp easily

Is this happening in america because of the allegedly high prices you guy think you are paying for fuel.
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#253651 - 07/04/2005 15:02 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: thinfourth2]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
I think we tried diesel in the 1970's and hated how dirty it was. Diesel is actually making a slow come back, but cars like the new Jeep Liberty are going to at least offer it. VW has had luck selling diesels here and is one of the few companies that has always sold them.

Of course, pickup trucks with diesel powerplants have always done well here (I have one) because of the longevity of the engines, high torque and good mileage. They are getting much quieter (at least my Isuzu designed Chevrolet Duramax engine is) and can start in the cold without an engine warmer.

I forget when , but I think in 2007, new "clean" diesel (similar to what you get) will finally be sold here and will make it more practicle. Basically, our diesel doesn't burn very clean, and that has turned people away. But that is changing soon. I really like diesel and can't wait for it to be a good option here.
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#253652 - 07/04/2005 15:35 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: thinfourth2]
pim
addict

Registered: 14/11/2000
Posts: 474
Loc: The Hague, the Netherlands
I wonder what diesel fuel costs in the US, related to gasoline. In most European countries, diesel is cheaper because of lower taxes. This is mainly because of the transport sector lobbying.

By contrast, in Switzerland, diesel is more expensive than gasoline. That's because the transport sector has no influence there. They hate the foreign trucks that use Switzerland to cross the Alps.

Pim

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#253653 - 07/04/2005 15:39 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: thinfourth2]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Diesel fuel isn't any cheaper than gasoline, though. Oh, but they do get better mileage. Hmm, didn't realize.

Edit: To be more specific, my experience is that diesel costs about the same amount as premium (92 or so octane) gasoline. FWIW, here's the US Average Price Index. Pretty handy.


Edited by wfaulk (07/04/2005 15:49)
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#253654 - 07/04/2005 15:43 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: wfaulk]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
It depends on where you go. It should be cheaper, because it's cheaper to make (less refinery costs), but that may be offset by lower volumes. Places that sell tons of diesel may get a cheaper rate through the wholesaler.

What's nice and cheap is the "off road" diesel made for constuction equipment. No highway taxes added. It has a pigment added to it so they can catch you putting it in your "on road" vehicle. I think there is "marine" diesel too that has a different color, but all three are the same stuff.


Edited by SE_Sport_Driver (07/04/2005 15:43)
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#253655 - 07/04/2005 15:56 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Around here (NY/NJ) it's usually slightly more expensive than 93 octane premium gasoline.
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#253656 - 07/04/2005 15:58 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Quote:
What's nice and cheap is the "off road" diesel made for constuction equipment. No highway taxes added. It has a pigment added to it so they can catch you putting it in your "on road" vehicle. I think there is "marine" diesel too that has a different color, but all three are the same stuff.

We have a similar thing here for farm vehicles. I think it's dyed red.

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#253657 - 07/04/2005 16:00 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: tman]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Yeah. It's red/pink here, too.
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#253658 - 07/04/2005 16:33 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: wfaulk]
boxer
pooh-bah

Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
Rudolph Diesel, the inventor, committed suicide by drowning from a cross channel ferry: He must have known something?
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#253659 - 07/04/2005 18:31 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: thinfourth2]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
The US has had a harder time in forcing the oil industry into supplying the low-sulphur refined deisel fuel needed for the newer common rail diesel engines. Currently the sulphur content in US Diesel is 500ppm. In 2006 15ppm Diesel will be available. There was a good Scientific American article about it (unfortunately they charge $8 for a back issue .pdf) a few years ago. A somewhat informative link is here.

I believe that Europe already has the better fuel, hence the greater prevalence of diesel engines. ISTR reading that the newer, low soot diesels required the better fuel.

-Zeke
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#253660 - 07/04/2005 19:07 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: boxer]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Quote:
Rudolph Diesel, the inventor, committed suicide by drowning from a cross channel ferry: He must have known something?


A brief bio from an interesting site:
http://world.std.com/~jlr/doom/diesel.htm
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#253661 - 08/04/2005 04:52 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: Ezekiel]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
Quote:
The US has had a harder time in forcing the oil industry into supplying the low-sulphur refined deisel fuel needed for the newer common rail diesel engines. Currently the sulphur content in US Diesel is 500ppm. In 2006 15ppm Diesel will be available. There was a good Scientific American article about it (unfortunately they charge $8 for a back issue .pdf) a few years ago. A somewhat informative link is here.

I believe that Europe already has the better fuel, hence the greater prevalence of diesel engines. ISTR reading that the newer, low soot diesels required the better fuel.

-Zeke


Yeah, your trucking lobby dollars at work again. A few states have managed to passed clean diesel laws of their own, but the Federal laws aren't in effect yet. I thought they were due to be in effect in 2006, but they could have been pushed back again.

It's because of this sad state that VW didn't bring over the PDI version of their diesel engines in the MkIV Golf/Jetta/Passat lines. There was a lot of interest in it on vwvortex, but the PDI needs the clean diesel.
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#253662 - 09/04/2005 00:21 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: pim]
AndrewT
old hand

Registered: 16/02/2002
Posts: 867
Loc: Oxford, UK
Quote:
In most European countries, diesel is cheaper because of lower taxes. This is mainly because of the transport sector lobbying.

I know that the UK isn't a European country but in any case our diesel prices are now higher than petrol too. Looks like our governments were quick to realise that diesels return higher MPG and less fuel tax.

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#253663 - 09/04/2005 02:46 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: thinfourth2]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
A couple years ago when I had the TDI Golf diesel was cheaper than even the regular gas now it is more expensive for some reason.

The problem with the diesel golf here is it's self destructive due to the egr and crappy fuel causing the intake to get plugged.

Is bio-diesel common in Europe. In the USA there are a few places that sell it.
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#253664 - 09/04/2005 05:23 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: thinfourth2]
TigerJimmy
old hand

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
I don't know anything about "fashion" when it comes to cars. I can't figure out why the Hummer 2 is selling at all, for instance. But here is my $.02 as a mechanical engineer.

Diesel has some advantages, but as others have said the reason for the price difference in Europe is due to taxes. In the US, diesel is about the same cost as gasoline.

Diesel's have quite a few disadvantages:

- Much more expensive to build (29 or 30:1 compression ratio means a stronger and heavier engine is required).
- Much less power than an equivalent gasoline engine
- Extremely difficult to start in very low temperatures
- Fuel non-volitile at very, very low temperatures
- Requires a very large oil sump due to combustion contaminants
- Noiser than gasoline engines
- "Dirtier" than gasoline engines (not only in particulate pollution, they just get physically very dirty)

They have a couple of nice advantages:

- Much more efficient than gasoline engines (due to the higher comresson ratio. There is an upper limit on Rc for gas engines because the fuel detonates. The compression ratio determines a displacement engine's efficiency.)
- Tend to last much longer than gasoline engines because they are more heavily built and run at lower RPMS and lower temperatures
- The energy density of the fuel, per unit volume, is higher for diesel (more range on your fuel tank)
- Generally huge torque at low engine speed, which is great for pulling vehicles

Diesel doesn't solve any ecological, political or financial issues for the world. It's just another way of refining oil. Hydrogen is probably the near-term "answer", but you need to make electricity to make hydrogen, which, at least in North America, is over 90% coal generated. If we can ever figure out how to make non-hydrocarbon electricity on a large scale (hyrdo doesn't do this), then hydrogen represents a great way of transporting the engergy.

Airplanes are a bigger issue. The energy density of hydrogen is quite low, so what do the airplanes run when the oil is gone?

Jim

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#253665 - 09/04/2005 08:39 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: TigerJimmy]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Quote:
Diesel doesn't solve any ecological, political or financial issues for the world. It's just another way of refining oil.

Well, higher efficiency does mean a bit lower CO2 emissions and marginally less reliance on oil imported from volatile parts of the world. Also, as diesel engines can run on 'bio-diesel', that might come handy for countries with excess agricultural production potential (and the fuel is renewable). Of course, contribution to solving the world's energy problems is marginal at best (not even on par with wind, 'direct' solar, geothermal and similar sources).

Quote:
Hydrogen is probably the near-term "answer", but you need to make electricity to make hydrogen, which, at least in North America, is over 90% coal generated. If we can ever figure out how to make non-hydrocarbon electricity on a large scale (hyrdo doesn't do this), then hydrogen represents a great way of transporting the engergy.

Why do you think that hydro is not the answer (not everywhere, of course, but, say, in Canada and Norway)? I don't see anything but nuclear energy (hopefully fusion relatively soon, but fission for now) as the only long-term solution.

Quote:
Airplanes are a bigger issue. The energy density of hydrogen is quite low, so what do the airplanes run when the oil is gone?

Hydrogen transport and storage is difficult enough for ground vehicles... Saving fuel for airplanes is good reason to try to preserve oil, but its value as raw material for fertilizers and plastics is much more critical. It would also make sense to conserve coal as petrochemical raw material. (Hm, I have a vague feeling of deja vu; we must have discussed this before )
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#253666 - 09/04/2005 17:30 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: bonzi]
TigerJimmy
old hand

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
I think we have discussed this before!

Hydro just doesn't have a high enough energy density. Hoover Dam, one of the largest in the world, only produces about 1500MW of power, and it can't do that all the time (because there isn't enough water). Hyrdo power is great for "peaking" generation -- generation when you need peak bursts of power like on really hot days. It isn't good at steady-state production. Hyrdo gets the energy from the altitude drop of water (density x height x gravity = potential energy). To get power from this drop, they store up huge amounts of water behind the dam and release the water in bursts when they need the power.

If you run a hydro plant all the time, you are limited by the river's mass flow rate times the altitude drop, which probably isn't going to be anywhere near the 1500MW. The reservoir is the battery that allows you to store up potential energy and dump it quickly (power is work per unit time).

Where I live there is one major metroplex (Minneapolis) of about 2.5 million people and a surrounding area (mostly rural and a couple small cities) of another million. These 3.3 million or so people are served by an electric company with quite a few power plants:

15 Coal Plants 8,119 Mw
17 Natural Gas Plants 4,535 Mw
2 Nuclear Plants 1,665 Mw
27 Hydro Plants 495 Mw
7 Oil Plants 167 Mw
3 Refuse-derived (RDF) Plants 67 MW

You can see how small a contribution the Hydro is, even though they have way more hydro plants than anything else. Look at those numbers, you just can't compete with the energy density in fossil fuels (except with nucelar).

I was with a friend of mine (a former Apollo engineer) and we were watching a train go by. It was a coal train and we both started counted the number of cars. We had both done this since we were kids. The train had 115 cars. We laughed about it and then my friend told me an interesting thing.

He asked me if I knew that trains in the US had to be 1 mile long or less to fit between switches. That means that a train full of coal won't have more than 117 cars, *each* of which generally carries 240,000 lbs. of coal. My friend let this staggering amount of coal sink in and asked me how long I thought the entire train load would "keep the lights on in Minneapolis?" Think about it for a second, he was talking about the 3.3 million people served by (at that time) Northern States Power.

We went and looked up the energy density of soft coal (all of the hard anthracite coal is gone) and figured it out.

2.1 hours.

Imagine that much coal coming out of a coal mine every 2 hours, then multiply that by all of the cities in the world. This number isn't even for a city like LA or Houston, NYC, Chicago, Las Vegas, etc. Just a medium sized midwestern city.

I agree. We need nuclear. As troublesome as fission is, we need it until we can get fusion working. Most people just don't seem to understand how urgent this issue is. If there are 300 million people in the US alone, that means we need 100 train loads of coal every two hours! About 1 entire train load of coal per minute, just for the US.

Jim

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#253667 - 10/04/2005 20:05 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: TigerJimmy]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Quote:
27 Hydro Plants 495 MW

Hm, you must be using every creek, then.

A relatively tiny river Cetina (less that 100 km of above the ground flow, plus a bit underground through limestone caves) has several power plants on it (including one reversible), the largest having installed power approximatively as all those 27 together (486 MW, nominal flow 220m3/s, hight 250m; actual production is about 1650 GWh/year, that is, about one third of installed capacity). We have power plants with elevation difference of over 400m. I think that that one even uses Pelton turbine, instead of usual Francis. It is interesting that several canyons Cetina flows through are alive and well (ecosystem, rafters and kayakers and all ), as is agriculture and turism on its shores.

On the other side of the spectrum if Djerdap system of power stations on Danube between Serbia and Romania (all of ex-Yugoslavia (especially relatively richer Slovenia and Croatia) used to pay a special excise to finance its construction): 12 Kaplan turbines (almost 200MW each), nominal elevation difference only 27m (34,5m max), but nominal flow of 8700m3/s. Average annual production is over 11TWh, more than half of theoretical maximum. Again, ecological damage is minimal (thanks to terrain and small elevation) and as a side benefit navigability of the Kazan (Cauldron) gorge was greatly improved.

But we have mostly run out of suitable locations like these. So, the future is nuclear, it would seem...
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#253668 - 11/04/2005 12:56 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: bonzi]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I suppose that might have something to do with the relative flatness of MInnesota and the failry mountainous Balkans.
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#253669 - 11/04/2005 14:46 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: wfaulk]
RobotCaleb
pooh-bah

Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
Quote:
I suppose that might have something to do with the relative flatness of MInnesota and the failry mountainous Balkans.

precilesy

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#253670 - 11/04/2005 18:18 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: pim]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
I just heard on the radio that fuel in the UK costs about $5.70+ a gallon compared to under $3 here. Yet, if you remove the taxes from the cost of fuel, we are paying $2.15 here in the States where most European nations, including the UK, pay $1.72 before taxes. $4 in taxes? Ouch.
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#253671 - 11/04/2005 18:33 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: AndrewT]
pim
addict

Registered: 14/11/2000
Posts: 474
Loc: The Hague, the Netherlands
Quote:
I know that the UK isn't a European country


Well, the UK is very much part of the European Union, just
not of the European Monetary Union. Also, geographically
it belongs to Europe.

But there is a difference in how the British and continental
Europeans perceive the word "Europe". In the UK, it is
perceived as "continental Europe", while on the continent,
it is perceived as "Europe", including all its isles.

Pim

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#253672 - 11/04/2005 19:10 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: TigerJimmy]
SuperQ
addict

Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
- Much more expensive to build (29 or 30:1 compression ratio means a stronger and heavier engine is required).

You're a bit off.. the VW TDI is about 18.5-19.5:1.

- Much less power than an equivalent gasoline engine

Deceptive.. the 1.9L TDI has only 100hp, but it has 177 lb-ft of torque, which makes up for the lack of RPM. Compare this to the 2.0L gas engine which has 115hp, but only 122 lb-ft of torque

- Extremely difficult to start in very low temperatures

Not at all, the fuel system in the VW TDI is heated to prevent problems with gelling. Also, Winterized fuel is used in all of the northern states.

- Fuel non-volitile at very, very low temperatures

again, pre-heating of fuel is done to eliminate this problem.

- Requires a very large oil sump due to combustion contaminants

I guess I have no idea about this one.

- Noiser than gasoline engines

I havn't taken a SPL meter to it, but my friend's TDI is signifigantly quieter than my 2.0L gas. When I hear a TDI drive by, the only thing I can hear is the turbo spooling.

- "Dirtier" than gasoline engines (not only in particulate pollution, they just get physically very dirty)

Yep.. this is the main reason why Diesel cars don't exist here, because of the sulfur content, some emission control devices must be left off (damaged by sulfur). The emissions numbers for Diesel are really bad per same ammount of gas.. After ULSD is out, I'm really looking forward to seeing the better emissions control devices.

They have a couple of nice advantages:

- Much more efficient than gasoline engines (due to the higher comresson ratio. There is an upper limit on Rc for gas engines because the fuel detonates. The compression ratio determines a displacement engine's efficiency.)

Yep.. that and y ou don't have to feed a signifigant portion of your energy back into producing sparc.

- Tend to last much longer than gasoline engines because they are more heavily built and run at lower RPMS and lower temperatures
- The energy density of the fuel, per unit volume, is higher for diesel (more range on your fuel tank)

ULSD and BioDiesel addatives will make this even better. (Bio is a better lubricant, and a solovent)

- Generally huge torque at low engine speed, which is great for pulling vehicles

The 1.9L VW TDI has a tow rating of 2000 pounds.
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#253673 - 11/04/2005 19:12 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: TigerJimmy]
SuperQ
addict

Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
Hey Hey, Minneapolis

I am thinking about starting up a BioDiesel club in the cities.. would you be interested?
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#253674 - 11/04/2005 19:20 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: wfaulk]
SuperQ
addict

Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
hah! you're right about that.. the entire elevation change of the Mississippi river between Itaska and the Gulf of Mexico is 446m

I think we have a 10m drop in metro area, which is signifigant for the river as a whole.
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#253675 - 12/04/2005 13:47 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: SuperQ]
jarob10
enthusiast

Registered: 07/01/2002
Posts: 274
Loc: Stockport, UK
Quote:
- Much more expensive to build (29 or 30:1 compression ratio means a stronger and heavier engine is required).

You're a bit off.. the VW TDI is about 18.5-19.5:1.

- Much less power than an equivalent gasoline engine

Deceptive.. the 1.9L TDI has only 100hp, but it has 177 lb-ft of torque, which makes up for the lack of RPM. Compare this to the 2.0L gas engine which has 115hp, but only 122 lb-ft of torque

- Extremely difficult to start in very low temperatures

Not at all, the fuel system in the VW TDI is heated to prevent problems with gelling. Also, Winterized fuel is used in all of the northern states.

- Fuel non-volitile at very, very low temperatures

again, pre-heating of fuel is done to eliminate this problem.

- Requires a very large oil sump due to combustion contaminants

I guess I have no idea about this one.

- Noiser than gasoline engines

I havn't taken a SPL meter to it, but my friend's TDI is signifigantly quieter than my 2.0L gas. When I hear a TDI drive by, the only thing I can hear is the turbo spooling.

- "Dirtier" than gasoline engines (not only in particulate pollution, they just get physically very dirty)

Yep.. this is the main reason why Diesel cars don't exist here, because of the sulfur content, some emission control devices must be left off (damaged by sulfur). The emissions numbers for Diesel are really bad per same ammount of gas.. After ULSD is out, I'm really looking forward to seeing the better emissions control devices.

They have a couple of nice advantages:

- Much more efficient than gasoline engines (due to the higher comresson ratio. There is an upper limit on Rc for gas engines because the fuel detonates. The compression ratio determines a displacement engine's efficiency.)

Yep.. that and y ou don't have to feed a signifigant portion of your energy back into producing sparc.

- Tend to last much longer than gasoline engines because they are more heavily built and run at lower RPMS and lower temperatures
- The energy density of the fuel, per unit volume, is higher for diesel (more range on your fuel tank)

ULSD and BioDiesel addatives will make this even better. (Bio is a better lubricant, and a solovent)

- Generally huge torque at low engine speed, which is great for pulling vehicles

The 1.9L VW TDI has a tow rating of 2000 pounds.


I think tigerjimmys comments relate in the main to naturally aspirated (unturbocharged) diesels.

Bolt a modern, variable geometry turbo combined with clever FIE strategy and the whole petrol vs diesel argument needs to be reconsidered.
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#253676 - 12/04/2005 17:23 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: jarob10]
SuperQ
addict

Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
I guess I don't see many NA diesels these days. Every bus and truck I've seen has a turbo.

But then again, we're talking about personal transportation here.. and not everyone needs an F350 diesel pickup to go a few km down the street to the grocery store. But that's a whole other argument
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#253677 - 12/04/2005 20:54 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: SuperQ]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Quote:
I guess I don't see many NA diesels these days. Every bus and truck I've seen has a turbo.

But then again, we're talking about personal transportation here.. and not everyone needs an F350 diesel pickup to go a few km down the street to the grocery store. But that's a whole other argument


I drive a Duramax 2500 Silverado for work everyday and yes, it's WAY over kill for the average driver, but there is no replacing it's power for the type of work I do (commercial construction). Maybe it's just the circles I run into, but nearly everyone else who has a big truck like I do needs one for work of some sort even if you can't tell by looking at it (snow removal, etc).

But anyway, it is a turbo as are the huge Internations we use to move our equipment from job to job. Even our bulldozers, lifts, front end loaders, backhoes, etc all have turbos. Is that just the way all turbos are made now or is there some application I'm not exposed to?
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#253678 - 15/04/2005 10:44 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: thinfourth2]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1424
Loc: MA but Irish born
I drive one of the little VW Golfs with a TDI engine which is rated at 90hp & 155lbs torque, though it has been blessed and puts out about 25% more

It is not a slow car, my commute is 90% highway where even the slow/right hand lane is going faster then the posted limit. The car has a top speed of ~115mph and it can get there quick enough, all the torque is great for over taking - no need to down shift.

The diesels of today are not your father's diesels. Unfortunely the poor quality of US diesel (high suplher) makes it near impossible for many of the new engines to meet EPA or CARB emmissions and survive. A bane in the side of the 90hp VW engine is the EGR cooler which causes the intake to clog from the high suplher - roll on 2006/7 and the arrival of ultra low sulpher diesel.

Noise: Yes it is noiser at idle then a gas engine, though I did have a recent take of very good fuel and it was much quiter at idle then previous. But it is not a clatter that you hear across the parking lot like a DuraMax diesel in those working pickup. However, on the highway it is a quiet / noisey as any other car, in fact some people feel quieter due to the lower RPMs - 65mph crusing is done at about 2000rpm, 80mph at 2900rpm.

Smoke: None, in the two years I've driven my car the only time I see smoke is on start up on cold days, and that is not some black cloud, just light gray cloud.

Cold starting: I live in MA just south of the NH border, my car start first time every time, no changes from the factory config, no fuel/oil/engine/battery heater just the standard glow plugs which heat the air in the cylinders.

Large oil sump: ~4 quarts, same as my wifes Corolla, plus the factory recommend interval is 10k miles and it has been shown as safe to go further.

Fuel price: Currently it is costing $2.50/gallon for diesel and $2.20/gallon for regular, and there have been times when diesel has been 25cents cheaper. But no matter what the price I get over 700 miles out of a tank with aggressive driving, and if I'm feeling cheap I can push that to over 800 miles. However as previously pointed out regular & diesel have averaged out to be pretty much the same over time.

I enjoy driving my Golf TDI, I love the heated seats - okay so their not diesel releated the car club connected with it is full of great poeple including a few empegers, and I do look forward to putting 25k miles on it per year for many years to come.

Putt, putt, clatter, clatter, vroom!

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#253679 - 15/04/2005 14:51 Re: Americans and diesel [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
SuperQ
addict

Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
yep, trucks are great for doing real work. But I know way too many people in Minnesota that don't need the size of vehicles they buy.

Take this example: I'm helping a friend move out of the in-laws basement into his new townhouse. We had a rented 14' uhaul, my Jetta, his wife's saturn, and his dad's civic packed full to the top.

His mother in-law puts a bag of cloths in the front-seat of the saturn, gets in a Chevy 1500, and drives to their new place without moving a single item. "there wasn't room in the car"

After that run, we made a second run with the uhaul.. most of that could have been avoided if we had put a couple things in thte pickup.

BTW, they also have a bedliner to protect the truck from the nothing they put in it.

it makes me want to hit people for being stupid sometimes.
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80gig red mk2 -- 080000125
(No, I don't actually hate Alan Cox)

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