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#257303 - 30/05/2005 18:59 Mini-ITX Server
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
Woohoo, time for you guys to tell me how I should spend my money.

I've currently got a linux box in my study doing a variety of tasks like mailstore, webserver, local name server, NAS and most importantly a myth backend. At the moment this is an XP3200 which is really a waste as it spends most of its time sitting doing nothing but heating the room up. I also get the feeling it's probably not doing my electricity bill any favors either. So I'd like to replace it with a mini-itx based box with a laptop drive for / and a software raid array for videos, email and NAS stored in an external box (possibly hidden away, but certainly should be detachable).

I've been looking at boards on www.linitx.com and www.mini-itx.com, is there anywhere else that's worth looking at? In terms of board requirements, an abundance of USB2.0 ports and firewire is a must. I don't think I need a particularly powerful CPU as all my myth recordings are off DVB so there's no compression to be done and the data throughput isn't huge. I've got 2 DVB-T cards which I will need to use with it, I noticed linitx do a 2-PCI riser and some of the boards explicitly state they support 2 PCI devices. Other than that I'll be relying on all the on board devices. I doubt I'll run X on it but I might make use of the audio i/o later on. I suppose gigabit ethernet might a good thing to try and future-proof it a little bit.

So, suggestions?
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#257304 - 30/05/2005 19:11 Re: Mini-ITX Server [Re: andym]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Quote:
I noticed linitx do a 2-PCI riser and some of the boards explicitly state they support 2 PCI devices.

I think the motherboard has to explicitly support this. The one I've got is a passive card and the leaflet that comes with it says that it only works in certain motherboards. The proper portable way to implement one is to use a PCI bridge chip which this one doesn't have.

Can't give you too much help on the other bits but chose your case carefully. Some of them are like jet engines taking off because of the tiny but incredibly high RPM fans inside. I've got a Travla C137 and it is one of the nicer looking ones which supports two PCI slots. The problem is the PSU inside has a very high speed fan which makes it very loud. Temporarily disabling the fan makes the thing nearly silent apart from the quiet hum of the CPU fan. Even turning down the speed doesn't really help.

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#257305 - 30/05/2005 19:36 Re: Mini-ITX Server [Re: tman]
sn00p
addict

Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
I've got a mini-itx system which I boot off a USB memory stick. I hand built a tiny system which contained a kernel, busybox, freeradius and openssl to work as a wifi authenticator. Worked perfectly as that.

Previously I had tried to make the system work as a video playback machine, but the epia 6000 wasn't up to the task.

I also tried using it as a DVB-S machine but it cooked (and smelled! Probably the DVB-S card, it's an early revision and they run hot) so decided that I'd rather it didn't burn the house down!

The travla is quite a nice case, but there's not a whole lot of space in it as it contains the dc-dc convertor in the front left corner.

I removed the fan from the case, as tman said, it's pretty noisy!

I didn't try a dual PCI, but providing it's supported by the motherboard I can't really see there being a problem.

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#257306 - 30/05/2005 19:53 Re: Mini-ITX Server [Re: tman]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
Thanks guys, the riser I looked at did have logic on the board so I assume it's doing some reasonably intelligent control line switching.

As for the case, I'm getting quite handy with the dremel and I was planning on building my own case with some big slow running 120mm fans.
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#257307 - 30/05/2005 20:04 Re: Mini-ITX Server [Re: andym]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Quote:
Thanks guys, the riser I looked at did have logic on the board so I assume it's doing some reasonably intelligent control line switching.

The guys at linitx.com are pretty good at answering technical queries so asking them beforehand would be a good idea. Never asked the mini-itx.com people anything so can't say much about them. Bought stuff from both of them with no problems however.

The riser I've got is this one from VIA. The chip on it is some sort of buffer and not a bridge. I was wrong about it being totally passive but it still does say you can only use it with a VIA chipset board. This is either just because VIA make the riser as well or it really does only work with certain boards.

I've never had any problems with it. I ran a PVR350 and a SCSI card on it with no ill effects. The only thing which had me puzzled for a bit was initially when it wouldn't detect cards properly or misconfigure them. I reseated everything and it worked.

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#257308 - 31/05/2005 23:51 Re: Mini-ITX Server [Re: andym]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Hi! A post right up my street!

I run two Mini-ITX machines - one to be my Smoothwall firewall, and the other to be my webserver, backup machine and general dogsbody. (At the moment this is running Azureus to serve my mixes, which chews up a fair bit of memory even with things pared down bit is still doable. When I get the mod_bt code working correctly then I'll run the tracker bit of it as an Apache module, which will probably have a smaller footprint.) I think they're great machines.

I used two Morex cases - a 3677 for the firewall (which has a single laptop drive - the one from my original empeg-car!) and a slightly larger 2688 for the server, as I wanted to put one or two 3.5" drives in there. I found, at least for the first one, that I had to put a 2200uf capacitor across the 12V input from the power brick in order to get it to start - it just didn't have the oomph to deliver the start-up current needed. Finding this out took about a month, sending the case back to the supplier and getting it returned, and a lot of trawling through the bulletin boards.

(EDIT): Stupid idiot, I nearly forgot. I've replaced the CPU fan on the M-10000 with a Zalman Northbridge CPU cooler. It runs a bit hotter, and you wouldn't want to run distributed.net on it all day, and you want to get the attachment and the use of heat grease right. It is definitely better to have it silent - those 40mm fans are usually bearingless fans that choke up after a while. You could probably use thermal setting resin - you're not going to be taking it off again, and you want better thermal conductivity after all. Mmmm - I should buy some.

My only observation is that even the M-10000 is not fast enough for screen work. Running Fedora Core 2, the screen draw time is very slow - windows will take seconds to redraw and drag. I think this is probably because I haven't got any video smarts plugged in and it's treating the video card as just a simple display buffer. If anyone has worked out how to get reasonable video in FC then let me know.

Running as a general network device is fine, however. It can SCP a file from one machine to another at 3MB/sec and the SSH daemon is not dragging the chain using up all the CPU time. Adding USB or Firewire drives is an excellent way to expand the thing, too.

How did you get on with this, eventually?

Paul


Edited by PaulWay (01/06/2005 02:12)
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Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#257309 - 01/06/2005 01:17 Re: Mini-ITX Server [Re: PaulWay]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
Quote:
If anyone has worked out how to get reasonable video in FC then let me know.


Install the VIA chipset video driver? I'm using Debian-Sarge on my mini-ITX server, and the via_drv.o video driver was part of the standard install I think.

Cheers

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#257310 - 01/06/2005 07:16 Re: Mini-ITX Server [Re: mlord]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
Install the VIA chipset video driver?


I'm using Debian/unstable on my M10000, and it was pretty quick in X, using the via_drv.o. You just need to make sure that you've got a Driver "via" line in XF86Config somewhere (or does FC use Xorg these days). You might also need the via_agp, etc., kernel modules.

OTOH, I'm now using the framebuffer on the PVR-350's TV-out (Driver "ivtvdev"), which is no slouch, either.
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-- roger

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