#266989 - 11/10/2005 18:58
Schematics for Mk2?
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new poster
Registered: 11/10/2005
Posts: 3
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Does anyone have schematics for the Mk2? I released some magic smoke!
Thanks!
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#266990 - 11/10/2005 19:30
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: G_fresh]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Nope. The only people that have it are either the designers or under NDA.
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#266991 - 11/10/2005 20:01
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: G_fresh]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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More specific inormation about your procedure you used to release the magic smoke might help. Many owners have been able to fix their own players, even without a schematic, thanks to the help of the Empeg gang and people here on the BBS. Have you looked at the troubleshooting section?
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#266992 - 12/10/2005 08:24
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: tman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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Hugo did say this though a while back. Nothing any further happened - possibly the higher ups wouldn't approve it. Would be nice eventually though.
_________________________
Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)
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#266993 - 13/10/2005 02:47
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: Shonky]
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new poster
Registered: 11/10/2005
Posts: 3
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OK, so previously I tied the ignition pin to +12V directly to help me troubleshoot some alternator whine. It seemed to help. When I went to reproduce this experiment, I put the empeg back into the sled, touched the ignition terminal to +12V, it started to boot and then smoke came out of the right, back side. It also blew the +12V in-line fuse.
When I took it apart, I found that a via just below and to the right of the four pin power header was burnt out (some of the FR4 was charred!). There is a silver-looking, two terminal part (heatsinked power or'ing diode?) to its left. If it is a diode, it's toast because it measures as a short...
So any ideas? The schematics are not public domain even though this is an old product from a defunct company? Anyway, thanks in advance for any help you all are willing to offer!
Ryan
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#266994 - 13/10/2005 08:59
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: G_fresh]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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You are in deep poo. I have seen exactly this failure in a player I have here for repair. It is reparable but requires surgery depeinding on the extent of the damage. You probably had a loose screw in the case that dropped into the back corner of the PCB when you previously picked it up to carry it.
It's unlikely the schematics will go public. I have not got permission to release them, I'm fraid.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#266995 - 13/10/2005 09:51
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: G_fresh]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
The schematics are not public domain even though this is an old product from a defunct company?
Thats normal. It is highly unusual for the schematics to be released even in cases like this. It's not defunct anyway. It has been merged/bought out a few times and I'm sure the IP has been transferred along with it.
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#266996 - 14/10/2005 19:52
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: tman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
Thats normal. It is highly unusual for the schematics to be released...
That's not true for everything. My pinball machine for example came with a complete set of drawings for almost every part on the machine, let alone the PCB's.
What exactly is the harm in releasing them anyway? I'm guessing if a car mp3 player were to be manufactured again it would never take the form of the empeg due to the expense and the move forward in technology. If it helps out a few long term users, what's the problem?
Cheers
Cris.
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#266997 - 14/10/2005 22:15
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: Cris]
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old hand
Registered: 16/02/2002
Posts: 867
Loc: Oxford, UK
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Quote:
[That's not true for everything. My pinball machine for example came with a complete set of drawings for almost every part on the machine, let alone the PCB's.
Schematics for brown goods (TV's and VCR's) are widely available too. Of course, this is largely borne out of necessity - for one; the logistics of return-to-base repairs on these products is prohibitive to say the least. Not so with the empeg.
Quote:
What exactly is the harm in releasing them anyway? I'm guessing if a car mp3 player were to be manufactured again it would never take the form of the empeg due to the expense and the move forward in technology. If it helps out a few long term users, what's the problem?
I can't see any harm in releasing them either. The hardware technology is a good few years old and any company looking to steal hardware design secrets from the empeg would surely have done so by now, just by buzzing-out a sample player? Presumably releasing the schematics for hobbyist/repair use doesn't necessarily put the designs into the public domain (if that's the correct term here)?
That said, what's in it for DNNA to do this? The product's defunct and presumably isn't contributing to the balance sheet in any way. I bet we'd be lucky if a discussion between one of the Cambridge guys and a DNNA suit about releasing this material lasted for more than 30 seconds! 
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#266998 - 15/10/2005 18:56
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: AndrewT]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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I would like to have the schematics as well.
BUT.. it is NOT a case of "why shouldn't they release them", but rather, "what incentive do they have TO release them?"
I don't see an incentive.
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#266999 - 16/10/2005 09:38
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31597
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I thought it was more a case of "they don't own the rights to release the schematics any more".
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#267000 - 16/10/2005 13:52
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: mlord]
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addict
Registered: 04/09/2004
Posts: 525
Loc: Oklahoma
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Quote:
I would like to have the schematics as well.
BUT.. it is NOT a case of "why shouldn't they release them", but rather, "what incentive do they have TO release them?"
I don't see an incentive.
That's the trouble, Mark...some people, (I am sure not you, of course) always are looking for an 'incentive' factor. Sometimes we do things that is just right...like all the stuff I have given to people on this board alone...like fast ethernet switches, cards, wireless routers and quite a bit more. Sometimes, you just have to say, 'I'll do what is right today'....as novel of a concept that that seems...
_________________________
The only easy day...was yesterday!
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#267001 - 17/10/2005 08:08
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: Ladmo]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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I really applaud the sentiment, and for individuals it is often workable...many techies do give stuff to those who may need it more, it is one of those karma things....people give a little to support others
Corporates very rarely do this sort of thing...and even when they appear altruistic, there is usually a reason (even if it is only getting good publicity for charity work)
Sad and cynical, but pretty true, I'm afraid
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#267002 - 17/10/2005 10:04
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: Ladmo]
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addict
Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 559
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
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Quote:
That's the trouble, Mark...some people, (I am sure not you, of course) always are looking for an 'incentive' factor. Sometimes we do things that is just right...like all the stuff I have given to people on this board alone...like fast ethernet switches, cards, wireless routers and quite a bit more. Sometimes, you just have to say, 'I'll do what is right today'....as novel of a concept that that seems...
Unfortunately things are different when it is not a person giving away something. Here at work I have old junk that I am not allowed to give away. No one in their right mind would buy t, but due to "policies" I can't give it away. Sucks, but that is how it is.
Rene
_________________________
12 gig empeg Mark II, SN: 080000101 30 gig RioCar SN: 30103114 My blog
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#267004 - 18/10/2005 01:46
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Yes, but what if... you asked to be released from the NDA. 
_________________________
Glenn
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#267005 - 18/10/2005 13:50
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: ShadowMan]
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member
Registered: 19/03/2002
Posts: 144
Loc: Florida, USA
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Ive got a fridge-sized AS/400 and a stack of Kronos timeclocks, a pile of (old) money relatively speaking. And it just sits there for that same reason
_________________________
::: shadow45
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#267006 - 18/10/2005 14:25
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: shadow45]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Ive got a fridge-sized AS/400 and a stack of Kronos timeclocks, a pile of (old) money relatively speaking. And it just sits there for that same reason
Gravity, most likely.
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#267007 - 18/10/2005 17:35
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Well, I am already. SONIC Blue doesn't exist any more, does it?
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#267008 - 18/10/2005 17:38
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Well, Patrick and Hugo have the rights, I believe. I was not allowed to disclose while employed by Sonic Blue (NDA) and I have simply stuck with that out of loyalty in the meantime. I will stay that way unless I hear otherwise, 'cos it's not my call.
Hugo?
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#267009 - 20/10/2005 04:18
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Doesn't Sigmatel own the rights to it now, or does that only cover the software?
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#267010 - 20/10/2005 12:43
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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No idea. It's pointless asking me, the IP issues over the software or hardware are beyond me. Mike Crowe was working on this at SigmaTel, so either he or Hugo should be able to answer definitively.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#267012 - 24/10/2005 02:27
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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So Is there some point where it becomes abandoned property and the squatters start moving in.
_________________________
Glenn
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#267013 - 24/10/2005 08:26
Re: Schematics for Mk2?
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
So Is there some point where it becomes abandoned property and the squatters start moving in.
Nope. Even if you base it on when the copyright expires, that isn't going to be for a loooooooooooooong time.
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