I have an Empeg Installation dilemna on my hands and I'm hoping to get some advice. The vehicle is a 2001 BMW X5. The dash is VERY slanted back, such that no aftermarket head unit will look good in the dash without doing some very extensive custom building to inset units back. This would cost in the thousands for labor alone. I would really like to find a way to use the factory head unit with the Empeg, but there seem to be two issues:

1 - I'm not sure if the BMW head unit can support and AUX input device other than a cd changer. I'm pretty sure it can not. I suppose I can use the factory unit as the slave, and use the Empeg as the master (running factory through the Empeg as an AUX). one question I have is whether the AUX device will be converted A/D -D/A in the process of doing this and whether people notice any degradation in sound using it that way? I also do not know for sure that the interface between the BMW head unit and BMW amp is not proprietary, but I can always replace the factory amp anyway. Probably not a bad idea in any case.

2 - Where to mount the Empeg? Anybody know anything about these vehicles? There is no room in the dash. The only possible location MIGHT be where the ashtray is, but its angled down at 45 degrees (is that a problem?) and I don't even know if its deep enough to house it.

I'm starting to wonder whether the Empeg will even be able to go into my car at all. With installation labor estimating in the thousands, its not really worth it anymore. I'd rather just keep it in the house for an MP3 player. But it sure would be nice if I could figure out a way to use it with my stock factory head unit and mount the Empeg in there somehow...

???

-steve

I don't see the dilemna. From the pictures at the BMW site, it looks like the Empeg would have no problem going in the dash to replace the existing radio. The radio is the one in front of the gear shift, right?



Sure, it would need an adapter plate, but such a thing must exist. Locate a good installer shop and have them remove the factory radio and put the empeg in its place. You will need an amplifier, of course...

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Tony Fabris

Nope, unfortunately not. I wish that was the case. I got the NON-Nav version of the X5. There is no navigation system as in the photo you posted. In the photo you posted, the area where the arrow points has the stereo and climate controls all sitting in that location. If I had gotten the Navigation system, this may have been an option to mount one DIN unit, but then where would I put the head unit? You need two slots, one for head unit and one for Empeg. (at least until the Empeg tuner is out, then I could go without a head unit).

IN any case, I don't have the Nav option, so in my car that area where you pointed with the arrow only has climate controls. The stock stereo is actually comprised of two units that are up on the slanted part of the dash where the nav screen is in your picture. There is a radio tuner on the lower half and a CD player on the upper half with a little door that will close over the CD player. The door is so that when its closed, the wood grain has a consistent line that goes all the way across the dash (hopefully you can picture that).

It just occurred to me that it might be possible to somehow move the climate controls somewhere else, or perhaps try to find smaller aftermarket climate controsl (they include a display and its all wired into the car's computer so I sorta doubt this is a possibility).

The ashtray is at the very bottom of the dash, behind the stick shift. You can see the little door there. If you open the door, there is a long ashtray and lighter. The ashtray itself is probably long enough to match the width of a DIN sized unit. The thing is, I can't seem to find anyone that knows how far back the empty space goes? Will I be able to mount an Empeg there or not, I do not know...and I don't know whether it will be a problem to mount the Empeg at 45 degree angle or not.

Any other ideas?

I will try to snap some photos of my vehicle console and put them up here

The ashtray spot sounds like a good location. Your installer might be able to help you do that, and for less than you might think.

The trick is to find an installer who knows what they're doing in one of these vehicles. I'm sure it can be done, the question is finding someone who's done it before.

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Tony Fabris

Exactly. ONly I haven't been able to find one that has done anything like this before. There is Magnolia HiFi, which comes reccomended (even though they are expensive). But they will only do the install if I buy stuff from them, and their only experience is with putting aftermarket head units into the slanted dash, and they tell me it costs $600 just for the labor to mount a single aftermarket head unit. That does not include any additional labor for other components such as amps, speakers, etc.. That's just to custom mount something like the Empeg into the slanted dash. Yikes.

I'm still asking around of course... I was hoping I could find an Empeg user with the same problem to solve.

Here is a photo from another X5 owner of an installation he did in the ashtray. Note that its just barely side enough to house a head unit, but it may or may not be wide enough for the Empeg tray. The thing is, I'm pretty sure this guy just mounted the faceplate here, and the actual head unit body is somewhere else behind the dash. I seem to recall that when I spoke with him before, but I'm still awaiting another response.

Also note that the location where you had originall suggested for the stereo is actually all entirely climate controls on the Nav version also (you can see better from this angle).

...and I don't know whether it will be a problem to mount the Empeg at 45 degree angle or not.

Ummm, yes, it will be a problem. Take a look at Tony's excellent FAQ right here for some more information about this.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Hmm, reading that post its still not clear to me that mounting at an angle is going to be a problem in reality. And also, what is the official acceptable angle that is tolerable. 10 degrees? 20 degrees? Or only horizantel? Maybe I'll just make sure to only drive downhills...

My personal opinion is that there shouldn't be any trouble. But it is outside of the spec. Moot point if there's not enough room behind that ashtray, though.

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Tony Fabris

One further suggestion made to me was to try to find a way to slant the empeg within the ashtray so that its a little more level. This would A - make it a little more level and B - point the rear of the empg towards the front of the car instead of down. This might prove to allow enough room. But its just a purely speculative option. I am supposing at this point the only way I'm gonna find out for sure is to go outside, take off the center console myself and start measuring.

Now about the AUX input on the Empeg. Does it go through A/D-D/A or does it pass the signal through purely in the analog domain?

Does it go through A/D-D/A or does it pass the signal through purely in the analog domain?

Since the DSP handles it all, and since the EQ is digital, and since the EQ will work on the Aux input, I'm pretty sure it does the A/D-D/A thing.

But I also know that it's very high quality and you shouldn't worry about generational loss at that level.

Also keep in mind that if you went the other way around (going from the empeg into the Aux In of an aftermarket CD player), it'd probably be the same thing. The DSP in the empeg is the same kind of device that they use in car CD players. The specs of the DSP are available in PDF format from the web. I think it's an SAA7705H.

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Tony Fabris

Does it go through A/D-D/A or does it pass the signal through purely in the analog domain?

It gets converted back to digital inside the empeg. However, the empeg has exceptionally high quality components inside (a Burr-Brown DAC and a 105dB signal to noise ratio). You will also gain the advantage of being able to use the empeg's built-in 20-band parametric equalizer on any songs that go in through the aux-in port.

If you are an absolute die-hard about wanting to keep both head units and not have to do the A/D--D/A conversion, then investigate the Sony XA-39II switch (available at Crutchfield for $49.95 - look here) that will allow you to use two different head units with a common amp.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

well, being able to use the built in EQ might be a good thing for certain...so. But its also good to know about the Sony AMP sharing device. That might come in handy too since i may have to mount the Empeg in a hidden place, it will be easier to access the switch to decide between CD/Tuner/Empeg.

Thanks all for all your comments...it is really helping. I wish I could get this kind of response from the BMW user group!!!

you said magnolia hi fi ? if you're in the seattle area, try car toys in bellevue. ask for donovan.

16 degrees off horizontal, max.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

16 degrees off horizontal, max.

Ummmm... sort of.

The actual allowable tolerance is 8 degrees off horizontal, if I remember correctly, but the drives are already internally tilted at 8 degrees when the unit sits horizontally. If you angle it so the face points eight degrees upwards, then the drives will be at 0 degrees, and similarly you can angle the face upwards at a 16 degree angle, and the drives will be at their maximum permitted angle.

However, if you angle the the unit so the face points down, even a one degree angle would put you outside the proper range.

In other words, you can angle the face 16 degrees upwards, but no degrees down.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"