Looks like I am definitely on for coming to Vegas for Blackhat/Defcon at the end of July and should be there for a week.

Obviously I'll be pretty busy at the con, but if I can get some time away does anyone have any recommendations for things to do/see.

So far -

• Planning to take the heli trip to the Grand Canyon for a look see
• Drop 50 bucks at the Bellagio:-)

*walk the strip
*Bellagio fountains
*Bellagio buffet
*Fremont Street Experience (take a bus/taxi there)
*Ghost Bar ('patio' out the side of the tower has a plexiglass floor panel to look down some 30 floors to the hotel entrance)

I was just there last weekend, but didn't get to do/see any of that this time around- too busy with my car club.
Have fun- and remember, the only table you can win at is the buffet table!

Go see the Blue Man Group at the Venetian - expensive but astonishingly good, even if you've seen the BMG elsewhere (including at the Luxor).

Rob

Penn & Teller!

The chandelier by the check-in at the Bellagio is amazing. It's all hand-made glass flowers.

The Bellagio isn't the fanciest hotel anymore. That's the Wynn, which is way down at the end of the strip. If you go visit the Wynn, check out the Lamborghini dealership inside. Then, when you're done, walk across the street to the Stratosphere. It's a shithole, but you can go to the top of the Stratosphere Tower for $6. If you go after dark, the view of the Strip is fantastic. Definitely go to the top of the tower.

The Bellagio has an amazing buffet, and you should definitely eat there. Mirage buffet is almost as good, and quite different. The lines can be quite long for both. Paris has the 3rd best buffet. If you're on an expense account, there is a 5 diamond restaurant (the only one in Nevada) in the Mandalay Bay called Aureole. This is really extraordinary and extraordinarily expensive food.

IMHO, the best show in Vegas is the Cirque du Soleil show "Mystere". There are 3 or 4 Cirque shows in Vegas now, but this one is by far the best.

If you have any interest in poker or serious gambling, the Gambler's Book Store is near downtown and has an incredible collection of books on everything related to gambling, card magic, cheating, casino management, game protection, etc.

The Rio is the "sexiest" casino by far. No attempt to be "family oriented" by them. The bar at the top of the Rio, the "Voodoo Lounge" is outrageous and worth a visit. There is a dress code. Penn & Teller show at the Rio is good, but see Mystere if you're only going to see one show.

Lance Burton's magic show is supposedly awesome, but I haven't seen it.

One of my favorite restaurants anywhere is called Olives, at the Bellagio.

There is an In & Out Burger across the freeway near Excalibur.

If you must gamble, the best deals are found in the old downtown. In fact, the 4 Queens used to have a couple of slot machines that were actually +EV, like 101% payout. But really, don't spend that $50 on gambling, spend it on a great meal or put it towards your Mystere ticket.

Boulder Dam (also known as Hoover Dam) is only about 40 minutes away by rental car. It's quite an amazing thing. Since the "homeland security" nonsense, the tour no longer takes you through the generating floor or down to the intake tunnel. It's still pretty cool, but the only place they take you is to a mezzanine overlooking the generating turbines.

Ummm, I'll post more if I think of it. Definitely go to the top of the Stratosphere at night though.

Jim

CIRQUE DU SOLEIL!

I had no idea they played Vegas until this post, but having seen their touring show recently, I can't think of any better way to spend money and time (on a service; on a product, there are a few things better).

Those acrobats/actors/muscians are simply inhuman. Choose a seat as close as you can afford, then buy a seat in the section closer.

I agree -- Cirque du Soleil is worth whatever you have to pay for it. I'm a huge fan, and I've seen 6 or 7 of their shows (some several times). The travelling shows are amazing, but what they do with a permanent stage is just outrageous. No comparison, really.

Did anone else mention the show "O"? Also by the Cirque guys. Amazing. Worth every penny of the $99.00 or so.

- Jon

Brilliant ideas guys - thanks. Cirque de Soleil played one of our corporate dos once (trapeze stuff during dinner, and mental fire and stilt things at random times) so I'll probably go for things I am unlikely to see again, like the Grand Canyon etc

(again this is assuming I get some free time - fingers crossed)

yep - definitely confirmed. Flying out on the 1st, back on the 8th. Getting to stay at Caesars Palace - sounds cool. Should get some time towards the tail end of the week to follow some of your suggestions.

Many thanks

Missed this thread, but my friends always go to Vegas to climb. There is a guide service out there that would haul/assist you up something in Red Rocks, maybe Frogland.

My buddy did that climb last time he was out there, he said it was excellent, definately a classic.

If you're into gambling more seriously than wasting $50 at Bellagio, I think I have to suggest Circus Circus. My game is blackjack and they're the largest casino with the lowest minium, normal rules, and most tables deal out of a shoe still. $5 miniumums on a straight game of blackjack is tough to beat.

The clientele at Circus is mostly white trash, but they're fun to play with. There are tables with sucker bets, but they're all optional (unlike some places downtown).

Last time I was at Slots-o-Fun, they actually had $1 tables. I don't think I really saw much more. Anyway, their rules were out of control. No doubling down on 9, 10 , or 11. The site linked doesn't seem to take that into account unless they've changed in the last couple years.

By the way, I haven't stepped foot into a casino since the US $1,200 beating I took in Casino de Montreal last year during the Canada Grand Prix. Previous to that, I used to go to indian casinos bi-monthly and Vegas once or twice yearly. Using basic strategy alone (Mohegan Sun uses continuous shuffle machines), I was able to stay ahead of the casinos over time. The Montreal experience put me off gambling almost completely. I don't know if I will ever go back to a $25 table. Unfortunately, Vegas is the only place I've been able to find fair games of sub-$25 blackjack.

You may remember my GF and I played pro blackjack before switching to poker...

I've watched at least 2 Circus Circus dealers break the deck when it went positive and continue to deal out of a negative deck. That's illegal, but its not rare to find a counting dealer who does it. For a player playing basic strategy, the CC game might be fine, but their penetration is quite bad.

For low-limit gambling, downtown is the place to be. 4 Queens had $5 double-deck the last time I was there.

This may be obvious to you now, but as a warning to others here: you can not beat blackjack without counting. You can not do better than basic strategy, which has been proven to be the optimal non-counting strategy. In today's games, however, basic strategy gurantees that you WILL lose in the long run. The statistical variance of blackjack is extremely high and provides intermittent reinforcement. Don't fall for this! You can't win if you don't count cards. If you do, you can only play for a short time and they will bar you. Please don't play casino table games. At least, please don't play thinking you can beat them.

Actually, according to the Wizard of Odds page I linked to above, the Vegas Hilton has 2-deck surrender blackjack which is literally scratch odds assuming you use the perfect basic strategy for those rules. Factoring in free drinks, you'll come out ahead in the very long run. Of course it's probably one table that's open a half hour a day or something.

But your rule holds for 99.9% of the tables, and the casinos know only a small minority of people will play *perfect* basic strategy given the many different rule variations.

The good tables are also usually at least $25 minimum, but usually $50+.

I'm assuming you are referring to shuffle tracking, but my understanding is this has not been reliably demonstrated to be effective (capable of producing +EV). Is there some other method you had in mind? You've got me curious...

Edit: the other well-known method is called "hole carding", which means looking for a "front loading" dealer (dealer places the hole card under the top card from the front) who lifts the card too high. Even if you are only able to determine if the hole card is pipped or painted you can get an edge. In practice, casino procedures have pretty much eliminated front loading. In a game that is dealt hand-held (as opposed to shoe), the hole card is supposed to be loaded from the side. In a shoe game, of course, the hole card is never lifted above the felt. So, I guess this is also theoretically a way to get an edge in blackjack, but my understanding is that front-loading has gone the way of the dinosaurs.

Other methods that involve marking or modifying the cards, using dyes or by bending or crimping are all illegal. Nevada is not nice to cheaters.

so - now have a reasonable idea of what to do - stuff I won't get to do in this country:

The Gunstore
Frys
Stratosphere and Speed rollercoaster
CoyoteUgly or Pussycat dolls review bar
Outdoor stuff at REI's
Grand Canyon flyover

...If we get time