#281192 - 07/05/2006 08:04
UK ISPs
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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I'm looking into having a cable broadband connection as a back up to our ClaraNet connection (at work) as the connection has been ceased in error by them twice in the last 6 months. We could get by on 1Mb but need static IPs, anybody got experience of business cable and do NTL have resellers, they want £80 p.m. for 1Mb with static IPs.
I'm thinking cable so that it'll be a fallback even if ADSL at our local BT exchange goes down (happened last year), are there other options that I haven't thought of?
We're based in London E1
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#281193 - 07/05/2006 14:49
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: tahir]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I don't know anything about ISPs over there, but I have to wonder about your requirement for static IPs. Static IPs implies that you want people from the internet at large to be able to open a communications channel to your computer. But if this is a backup connection, how will they know about those IP addresses when your primary connection goes down?
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#281194 - 07/05/2006 19:32
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Static IPs could also just be because they need to access firewalled servers/restricted VPN end points and the like.
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#281195 - 07/05/2006 19:37
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: tahir]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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I don't have a recommendation on the cable front (apart from the fact that I coded some of ntl's call centre software). If you are thinking of moving your ADSL from Claranet then I would recommend A&AThey are the most technically clued up ISP that I know.
Edited by andy (07/05/2006 19:37)
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#281196 - 07/05/2006 20:24
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: tahir]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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This probably isn't all that helpful, but when I had cable broadband from NTL at university in Nottingham back in 2003 it was massively unreliable. It would go down on average every week. When it goes down, it could be for an hour, or it could be 24 hours.
When it did work, it did have fantastic throughput though.
For a backup connection, it is probably ok. Just don't rely on it.
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#281197 - 08/05/2006 08:55
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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Quote:
Static IPs implies that you want people from the internet at large to be able to open a communications channel to your computer. But if this is a backup connection, how will they know about those IP addresses when your primary connection goes down?
We have support people and even me that VPN in, obviously if connection A is down then the necessary people would be aware of connection B, but it's more just to keep mail functioning.
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#281198 - 08/05/2006 09:12
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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Quote:
If you are thinking of moving your ADSL from Claranet then I would recommend A&A
Look very interesting
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#281199 - 08/05/2006 09:13
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: sein]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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Quote:
For a backup connection, it is probably ok. Just don't rely on it.
£80 p.m. is a lot of money though.
Any other backup options that anyone can think of?
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#281200 - 08/05/2006 09:34
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: tahir]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Any other backup options that anyone can think of?
At work, we've got DSL and ISDN. When the DSL goes down, it automatically dials out on the ISDN. AFAIK, the ISP automatically updates the routing to cope, until the DSL comes back up again.
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#281201 - 08/05/2006 09:46
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
At work, we've got DSL and ISDN. When the DSL goes down, it automatically dials out on the ISDN. AFAIK, the ISP automatically updates the routing to cope, until the DSL comes back up again.
Yeah, A&A can do this. Of course, by the time you have paid the 250 quid install, the 40 quid a month rental and added the new hardware to support ISDN fallback then the first year may well end up costing more than 80 quid a month...
The second year will be cheaper though.
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#281202 - 09/05/2006 12:18
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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My cheap ADSL has got fallback routing built-in, why pay an external service? On loss of service, it redirects to a secondary ISDN router.
Or it used to.
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#281203 - 09/05/2006 12:25
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
My cheap ADSL has got fallback routing built-in, why pay an external service? On loss of service, it redirects to a secondary ISDN router.
Because unless your ISP has explicit support for things like that you will end up with a different IP address and routing. If you want seemless ISDN fallback then your ISP has to support routing your ADSL IP address to your ISDN connection when you dial in.
Only a subset of the more clued up ISPs do this (and most of them only on their more expensive business oriented accounts). Very few cheap routers nowadays have builtin fallback.
By the way, what external service were you talking about ? When I said "250 quid install, the 40 quid a month rental" that was purely for the ISDN line, not for anything else.
Edited by andy (09/05/2006 12:28)
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#281205 - 10/05/2006 09:47
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: tahir]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Just found out that we have a spare ISDN2 line in the server room, so the ADSL/ISDN option looks good
Just to reiterate: Remember that if you want transparent fail-over for externally-facing services, you'll need to have an ISP that supports that.
If it's just mail, then you can define a secondary MX record for the alternate address, and have it go to the same machine. If it's web, then you need the dynamic routing updates at the ISP.
If, while failed-over, you can live with outbound only, and if your engineers know the alternate IP addresses, so that they can still connect from outside, then you're fine.
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-- roger
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#281206 - 10/05/2006 09:53
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: Roger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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Quote:
Just to reiterate: Remember that if you want transparent fail-over for externally-facing services, you'll need to have an ISP that supports that.
Yup, we're looking at A&A or http://www.mistral.net/ , both do ADSL with ISDN failover
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#281207 - 10/05/2006 10:09
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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I have a single fixed IP, associated with my login name. If I connect with either analogue, iSDN or ADSL, that connect gets assigned that IP. I run NAT behind the IP. At one point I was running 12 non-routable addresses behind it. I've not tried seeing what happens when I try more than one connect at once: I suspect it will be rejected. This is not a business account, it's a standard private account with XS4ALL.
The Zyxel ADSL router (a P314) had fallback from ADSL in it as far back as 2003 when I bought it, and it was already a year old model then. Likewise, my more recent ASUS W500g wireless ADSL also has it, with extra features. It just means I can run one ADSL and one fallback iSDN router on my LAN with one fallback path through the iSDN.
I pay an extra E5 per month for the fixed IP, but otherwise no other charges above the ADSL over iSDN account fee. The account fee is E32 (ADSL) and the equipment hire fee to KPN is E35 (iSDN).
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#281208 - 10/05/2006 10:13
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: tahir]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Unless Mistral's tech support and reliability have improved significantly over the last four years, I would not recommend that you use them. As well as having been told to "P*** off" by one of their "technicians" (who confused IP address with port number), their reliability over iSDN was poor. Additionally, they cut us off (a business account) when I inadvertently admitted that we were using a NAT router on the connection (same type as the one they recommended, one third the price, configured by myself instead of by them at 60 quid an hour).
Good luck if you do use them, but don't say I didn't warn you.
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#281209 - 10/05/2006 10:16
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: schofiel]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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Thanks for the warning. I'll probably go with A&A then
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#281210 - 15/06/2006 15:26
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: tahir]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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Sorry to bring this up again, do I actually need a seperate firewall considering that most routers now have inbuilt firewalls? If I can do without a seperate firewall then 2x routers + ADSL/ISDN will give me the security of service I'm after at very little cost.
Or should I not be so tight and pay for a proper firewall (looked at Fireguard and Firebrick)?
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#281211 - 15/06/2006 16:56
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: tahir]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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In my opinion, unless you need to open lots of incoming ports or need a DMZ then just a router with a decent built in firewall is fine.
And if you went for one of the Vigor routers with built in ISDN then you would only need one router.
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#281212 - 18/06/2006 05:39
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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Excellent, thanks Andy. I'll be getting 2 just in case one dies.
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#281213 - 21/09/2006 10:32
Re: UK ISPs
[Re: tahir]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1914
Loc: London
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Just had our first major ADSL outage, the ISDN backup worked a treat  And Vigor have a pretty good (paid) support line too.
Edited by tahir (21/09/2006 10:32)
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