#290772 - 25/11/2006 19:40
Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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What if auctions could be ended on a random time. Say anytime +/- 1/2 hour from the nominal close time?
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Glenn
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#290773 - 25/11/2006 19:46
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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The minus time wouldn't work. You might be left with auctions with no bids. Sniping is usually a problem for other buyers. As a seller, if you are selling something in demand, the price will go up regardless or last minute bids. In the end I don't care when the bids come in as long as it sells of a decent price.
As a buyer, I always snipe. Always. However, I always bid my maximum bid amount with the snipe. The same amount I'd have bid if it had been on day 1 or 2.
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#290774 - 26/11/2006 01:29
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14493
Loc: Canada
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Oh, was that you? Sorry!  just kiddingQuote:
As a buyer, I always snipe. Always. However, I always bid my maximum bid amount with the snipe. The same amount I'd have bid if it had been on day 1 or 2.
Ditto here. And if everyone else also does the same, then there's no reason to complain about the system, really.
Cheers
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#290776 - 26/11/2006 13:08
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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I do exactly the same - my one and only bid with 2 seconds to go. I see nothing wrong with it. If I bid with 10 days to go then someone will have 20 bids with £1 increments and go higher than they would bid normally. As a seller thats great but I'm not so happy as a bidder.
People wrongly assume eBay is a 'going going gone' auction whereas its really a 'sealed bid'-style auction.
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#290777 - 26/11/2006 13:15
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: gbeer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Sniping isn't a problem - it's a common sense and legal strategy for buyers to minimise pumping the price in drawn out bidding wars. I snipe every auction, winning about 50% of items I bid for. There's absolutely nothing stopping you sniping as well.
Rob
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#290778 - 26/11/2006 13:18
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: rob]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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What I do object to is automatic sniping tools. I see that as sneaky. Good old fashioned hovering over the mouse button though, thats fun 
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#290779 - 26/11/2006 15:54
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
Sniping isn't a problem - it's a common sense and legal strategy for buyers to minimise pumping the price in drawn out bidding wars. I snipe every auction, winning about 50% of items I bid for. There's absolutely nothing stopping you sniping as well.
Rob
Actualy the proposal was more from the vewpoint of a seller.
As a buyer, I'm not inclined to camp out waiting for the auction to end.
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Glenn
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#290782 - 26/11/2006 17:06
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: gbeer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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Hmmm no... nothing rich about it. The 2 methods are totally different. What exactly is your problem with sniping? Why do you object to me making my one and only bid with a gfew seconds spare? Its a simple enough concept to grasp.
As I already explained, I have no problem with it. If you don't like it, stop using eBay. Simple. Your initial post is quite pointless IMO.
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#290783 - 26/11/2006 20:21
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
People wrongly assume eBay is a 'going going gone' auction whereas its really a 'sealed bid'-style auction.
I don't think it's quite that either. I think it's a combination, actually. In a sealed bid auction, don't you only get to bid once? I thought that a bunch of people enter their bid, and the highest wins. That's not how ebay works. You do essentially see rising bid amounts.
Mark me down as pro-sniping, but with no programs.
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Matt
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#290784 - 26/11/2006 21:21
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: Dignan]
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old hand
Registered: 16/02/2002
Posts: 867
Loc: Oxford, UK
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Quote:
I think it's a combination, actually. In a sealed bid auction, don't you only get to bid once?
I agree in that it's really a combination. It is the sniper's decision to avoid the bidding war and enter what is essentially a sealed bid.
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#290785 - 27/11/2006 01:08
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: AndrewT]
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old hand
Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
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Except the bidding is not sealed. In a sealed-bid auction, one would not know if they are the highest bidder. The fact that you have no information about other bids is what defines the nature of a sealed-bid system. Ebay is a "going, going, gone" style auction with a time limit.
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#290786 - 27/11/2006 03:11
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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addict
Registered: 23/01/2002
Posts: 506
Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
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I have no issues with snipping services. I use them. Not everyone has broadband.  I, unfortunetly, live in an area were broadband is not available. It's available 700 feet from my house but not here! Even satellite internet is not a sure bet for bidding.
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#290787 - 27/11/2006 05:43
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: TigerJimmy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Quote:
Except the bidding is not sealed. In a sealed-bid auction, one would not know if they are the highest bidder. The fact that you have no information about other bids is what defines the nature of a sealed-bid system. Ebay is a "going, going, gone" style auction with a time limit.
I don't think that is entirely the case.
On eBay, you do not know what the high bid is, you only know who made the bid. That is not particularly useful information. And in a bid sniping situation, you don't even get the chance to find out if you are the highest bidder until it is too late to do anything about it if you are not.
Sure, Joe Bidder is sitting there as high man on the totem pole with his $85 bid, but that only means he has out-bid the next highest bidder. His actual bid is most likely higher than that, possibly much higher than that. Thus the dangers of bid sniping. You think you're safe bidding $100 with 15 seconds to go, only to find out (too late) that Joe's bid was higher than you expected.
tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#290788 - 27/11/2006 07:30
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
And in a bid sniping situation, you don't even get the chance to find out if you are the highest bidder until it is too late to do anything about it if you are not.
That's a feature, not a bug. If you always snipe with the amount you're actually willing to pay, you win the item in all cases where you can afford it, and lose it in all cases where you can't. That's surely perfect for the buyer -- how could any other strategy, on Ebay's part or yours, do better?
Quote:
Sure, Joe Bidder is sitting there as high man on the totem pole with his $85 bid, but that only means he has out-bid the next highest bidder. His actual bid is most likely higher than that, possibly much higher than that. Thus the dangers of bid sniping. You think you're safe bidding $100 with 15 seconds to go, only to find out (too late) that Joe's bid was higher than you expected.
Why did you bid $100? If it's because that's all you're willing to pay, you don't want to win if Joe's bid is higher. If it's less than you're willing to pay, you aren't genuinely attempting to buy the item.
Even if you're talking about the emotional, as opposed to purely financial, cost of buying on Ebay, by sniping you're on tenterhooks for maybe a minute, rather than for several days -- much less emotionally wearing.
Sniping, even automatic sniping, is not a problem and should not be "dealt with". I'd never bid for anything on Ebay if I couldn't snipe.
Peter
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#290789 - 28/11/2006 00:08
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5549
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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That's a feature, not a bug.
Oh, absolutely. I am not faulting eBay's procedures in any way.
I was just pointing out to TigerJimmy that it really is closer to being a blind auction than a "going going gone" type of auction.
I agree completely with everything you said, and only offer my "anti-sniping" suggestion as the simplest method to implement it should anybody at eBay be so inclined to do it. I would not be in favor of their doing so.
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#290790 - 29/11/2006 14:56
Re: Possible Ebay solution to deal with snipers?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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The problem with the eBay model is the weird combination of transparency and opacity added to idiot users.
Basically, the problem comes when you bid your maximum amount early in the auction, then, later, some idiot comes by and submits a bid, sees he's not winning, submits another, still not winning, submits another, ad nauseum. This drives up the selling price. But you say "this is no different than if he'd just bid that maximum amount to begin with", but you're forgetting the fact that he's an idiot who will bid more than he wants to pay just to win. If there was no feedback until the auction was over, or if you could see everyone's max bid, this problem wouldn't happen. (The latter would cause other problems, though, which would be similar and worse.)
This is the reason that people snipe. If you submit your bid at the last second, no one has the opportunity to creep up on you. Which turns eBay's system into a sealed-bid auction. Which makes you wonder why they don't just make it sealed bid anyway. Other than the fact that their system plus those idiot users (combined with the non-idiots who haven't figured all this out yet) raises selling prices.
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Bitt Faulk
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