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#294652 - 07/03/2007 23:04 Online banks
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Wachovia just sent me a notice that they're going to start charging $5.99 a month to download data directly to Quicken, but not if I log on and download the QIF (or whatever it is) file.

That's the last straw. Wachovia has really gone down the tubes since First Union bought them.

I'm considering going to an online bank for my checking account. I've been researching two (ING Direct and USAA), but I was hoping for some feedback about some others, too. Anyway, I have some reservations about the whole deal.

First, fees for using ATMs. ING Direct partners with some fly-by-night looking ATM company (Allpoint) that has ATMs inside other businesses. I'm not a big fan of going in someone's store just to use an ATM they have there. USAA refunds $15 worth of other banks ATM fees per month, plus doesn't charge a fee themselves for the first ten a month. That should cover me, plus I don't have to worry about which ATM to use.

Second, paper deposits. ING Direct has some sort of thing where you keep open a checking account with a real bank, you deposit your paper check or cash there, and they automatically transfer it out, but I'm having trouble finding details on that. USAA allows you to scan in paper checks and upload them. (How awesome is that?) Not sure about cash.

The things that appeal to me about them are the lack of fees and the interest-bearing checking account. USAA's not terribly up-front with the information on this, but the account itself doesn't carry a fee, and they claim to "say no to fees". ING Direct is more forthcoming: they point out the five times you can be charged money: overdraft (no fee, but they charge interest), overnight delivery of a paper check or a replacement card, stop payments, and foreign currency conversion. USAA's not with the disclosure on the interest, either. They say they pay it, but they don't say how much. ING Direct pays 4-5.3%, depending on your balance.

I don't tend to keep a lot of money in my checking account, so I don't want one with a minimum balance. And, as you can tell, I'm interested in the no-fees and interest-bearingness issues, too.

So, any further suggestions?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#294653 - 07/03/2007 23:34 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Sorry I can't suggest anything, but thanks for posting all that info... specifically about USAA. I use them for car and renters insurance and had been meaning to look into their financial stuff... and had no idea their online accounts were that advanced. I'll definitely be checking it out very soon.
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|| loren ||

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#294654 - 08/03/2007 00:27 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Have you looked into a local credit union?
I have my checking and savings accounts linked- the checking account can be at $0.00 and any check that comes through then gets sucked out of the savings account. No fee for that.
They also give you dividends, but it's not much to write home about.
I have all the online access that I need- billpay, transfers, etc.
ATM use is usually free at other CUs.

I'm afraid I don't see the attraction to web-based banking the way you've described it.
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10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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#294655 - 08/03/2007 00:44 Re: Online banks [Re: Robotic]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I'm a member at two CUs and I don't like either of their checking offerings.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#294656 - 08/03/2007 01:22 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
Quote:
... USAA allows you to scan in paper checks and upload them. (How awesome is that?) Not sure about cash.


If you find out for sure that they let you scan the cash for deposit... I'd say it's a no brainer.
_________________________
Glenn

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#294657 - 08/03/2007 11:03 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
russmeister
enthusiast

Registered: 14/07/2002
Posts: 344
Loc: South Carolina
I also have Wachovia, Bitt, but I haven't gotten that email. I did find this on their website, though:

"Fees For Personal Accounts
Online Banking access through Quicken®, QuickBooks®, or Microsoft® Money: $5.95 per month, following the three (3) month free trial period after your enrollment date for new enrollees as of 2/1/2007. Existing customers using the service will be assessed the $5.95 monthly fee effective 4/1/07.*"

I believe I'm going to begin the process of looking for a new bank as well.

Thanks for the heads up.
_________________________
Russ
---------------------------------------------------------
"The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will." Vince Lombardi

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#294658 - 08/03/2007 11:42 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I think if you can use USAA for anything it's almost a no brainer. I haven't banked with them specifically, but I do use them for insurance and a credit card and have always had great experiences.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#294659 - 08/03/2007 12:10 Re: Online banks [Re: russmeister]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I got an actual paper letter in the mail. And the best part is that they say they'll start charging in April, but they won't start billing until June.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#294660 - 08/03/2007 13:22 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
russmeister
enthusiast

Registered: 14/07/2002
Posts: 344
Loc: South Carolina
How long have you had your account and what type of account do you have? I wonder if there are exceptions to this charge. I can't imagine them taking money out of my account without a notice and I haven't received one yet.
_________________________
Russ
---------------------------------------------------------
"The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will." Vince Lombardi

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#294661 - 08/03/2007 13:32 Re: Online banks [Re: russmeister]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I've had it since I was married, at least. Other than the time they allowed someone to steal my checks, when I had to change accounts. It may be the same one I've had since I was like 16.

They do exempt "Crown" accounts, but I don't qualify for one of those.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#294662 - 08/03/2007 13:43 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
russmeister
enthusiast

Registered: 14/07/2002
Posts: 344
Loc: South Carolina
I'm not in that category either. I'll let you know if I don't get charged. In the meantime, I'll do some homework on new banks.
_________________________
Russ
---------------------------------------------------------
"The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will." Vince Lombardi

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#294663 - 08/03/2007 13:55 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I called up USAA and asked them about their checking account. Turns out that the interest that they pay is 0.15%. But, apparently, they do give you 0.5% cash back on purchases, which probably works out to being about the same for me. You can get overdraft into a USAA savings account (which pays up to about 4% interest, tops) or a USAA credit card. The deposit-by-scan thing requires that you have a USAA credit card. Otherwise, you have to mail it to them. They have no way to accept cash deposits, so you have to convert it to a money order and mail it in. I still didn't get really good information about the fees that they do have. Apparently "regular stuff". I did get a specific example of having a check returned when you don't have overdraft. (I really like ING Direct's "these are the only times we will charge you a fee" statement.)

To me, the ING Direct account sounds better, except for the ATM issue. The ATMs they have look like they're all inside businesses, which means that, in addition to feeling like a jerk for going in a store just to use their ATM, if the store is closed, you're out of luck.

I already opened an ING Direct account (it only cost me $0.51 in an initial deposit, minus whatever they're depositing in my checking account for verification). I'll at least play with it for a while and see how it goes.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#294664 - 08/03/2007 14:01 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12345
Loc: Sterling, VA
Quote:
feeling like a jerk for going in a store just to use their ATM

Why? I always assumed that the store got compensated for having the machine there. Why else would they waste valuable store space on a huge cash machine?
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Matt

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#294665 - 08/03/2007 14:14 Re: Online banks [Re: Dignan]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Yeah, good point.
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Bitt Faulk

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#294666 - 08/03/2007 14:15 Re: Online banks [Re: Robotic]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
I went through this exact dilemma when I was relocating to California for my sabbatical. My normal bank, Chase, has no branches anywhere in CA and charges stupendous fees when using non-Chase ATMs.

I have my retirement investments with Fidelity, and they turned out to be pretty good as a bank as well (although the fees don't entirely disappear until you have a non-trivial amount of money invested). Fidelity gives me checks, an ATM card that forgives fees, and free Quicken downloads. They've got local branches in various places around the country. The only things they don't do are things involving cash. You can't walk up and ask for a roll of quarters.

I ended up joining the SRI Credit Union as well. (I'm splitting my sabbatical between SRI and Stanford.) The credit union has no minimum balances, gave me free checks, and also reimburses ATM fees. Plus, they've got a convenient branch office in the basement of the building where I work. They don't do Quicken downloads in any useful way, though. (They'll generate a QIF file, which Quicken knows how to import as a new account, but they don't generate a WebConnect file, which is what Quicken knows how to merge into an existing account.)

My suggestion is to take a closer look at any banking offerings made by whatever company you use for your investments and/or retirement. You may be pleasantly surprised.

On a deeper level, this whole monthly charge to download data is exceptionally annoying. All of these banks let you do everything from their web pages free, but they charge you for the same thing through Quicken. I think Intuit is part of the problem, trying to get a cut of the action. I suppose some banks might let you download OFX, which you should be able to import into Quicken or whatever else for free.

Has anybody tried Microsoft Money? The last thing I want to do is lock myself closer into Microsoft Windows, but it's certainly a viable alternative to Quicken. Then there's always Moneydance or Gnucash. It's not clear whether either one has all the Quicken features that I know and love.

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#294667 - 08/03/2007 14:21 Re: Online banks [Re: Dignan]
cushman
veteran

Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
Quote:
Quote:
feeling like a jerk for going in a store just to use their ATM

Why? I always assumed that the store got compensated for having the machine there. Why else would they waste valuable store space on a huge cash machine?

Typically there will be a regional company, Fly By Night ATM Service, that will rent space in local stores, convenience shops, etc. They own and service the ATMs in those locations. Then they will strike a deal with different banks to allow you to access their ATMs fee-free. It is a lot like the local public phone companies.
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Mark Cushman

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#294668 - 08/03/2007 14:39 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
Bitt,
I have a USAA Four-Star checking account, I've had it for over a decade. The interest received is a joke, but ATM fee rebates of up to 10 transactions or $15/month is great (used to be $10/month but it went up).

I never make cash deposits, but the mail deposit envelopes are postage pre-paid, which is nice.

The minimum balance of Four-Star is either $500 or $1000, so that may dissuade you. I've been very happy with all of USAA's services - I have their credit card, this checking account, their car and home insurance (at one point renter's insurance) and soon I'll have a mortgage with them.

I can't think of a single bad experience with them in all this time. They answer the phone promptly and have the training to help you, and they don't use foreign call centers.

-Zeke
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#294669 - 08/03/2007 15:18 Re: Online banks [Re: Ezekiel]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
They do the same ATM thing for the free checking. At least I think it's free: "Avoid monthly service fees regardless of your balance."
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Bitt Faulk

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#294670 - 09/03/2007 20:51 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I use Chase. My checking account has 0.5% interest linked to a savings account @ 5.0% interest with overdraft protection. They don't charge me any ATM fees, even when I'm abroad, although they recently started charging a 3% currency conversion fee.

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#294671 - 17/03/2007 21:40 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
So it turns out that ING Direct doesn't offer OFX access (that is, downloads of transaction information directly into your financial application) at all.

...

Crud.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#294672 - 04/07/2007 02:39 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Not that anyone really cares:

I decided to go with a local credit union I'm a member of. The lack of OFX access for ING was kind of a deal-killer for me, especially since charging for it was the straw that made me leave Wachovia.

Anyway, I've been using the credit union for a while now. I thought I'd let you know my experiences (not that it's likely that anyone else here can be a member of the North Carolina State Employees' Credit Union), at least so you might know what to look for.

First off, I closed my accounts with Wachovia, which was a huge pain. They couldn't seem to figure out the final amount I needed to pay to close the account (during the transition, I screwed up, forgot about an automatic payment, and accidentally overdrew the Wachovia account) and I ended up having to go back to the bank several times to get it cleared up. Then my HR department failed to update my direct deposit in time, which I knew they'd due, despite the fact that I gave them nearly two weeks' notice. I figured that the worst case would be that Wachovia would reject the deposit and they'd send me a paper check. As it turned out, Wachovia decided to accept the deposit, despite the account being closed, so I once again had to go to the bank, get a check from them and courier it over to my new bank by hand. (Of course, my HR department also chose this pay period to forget to send my pay stub, so it took me over a day before I realized what had happened, since I was expecting to get an actual check instead of a stub.) So, in summary, Wachovia sucks as much in closing an account as they do in holding an account.

When I opened the new account, I decided to not get any checks, as I figured that I could use BillPay for virtually everything that I would have used checks for, and print checks out myself for anything that that wouldn't work for. Well, as it turns out, it's not as easy to print your own checks as I had hoped, but it largely hasn't been an issue.

NCSECU has OFX access, which is great. The way they update the transactions is a little odd, though. It seems to get updated only once a day, whereas I seem to recally Wachovia updating constantly. Not really a huge deal, but different. In addition, Wachovia allowed you to see pending but not posted transactions, whereas the SECU just shows you a dollar summary. Again, not a huge deal (basically it just means the same thing as above: just wait a day), but not as nice as Wachovia.

I hadn't used Wachovia's BillPay feature very extensively, but the SECU's seems just as nice. ISTR that Wachovia would actually get notifications from some of the payees as to how much was owed, but honestly, it was only for a few, it was easy to get out of sync if you didn't pay through BillPay, and it just cluttered up the screen. I kind of prefer the lack of that feature.

I'd halfway forgotten that I had a Wachovia credit card. Apparently the card's backend was handled by FIA, nee MBNA, which was purchased by Bank of America. At some point soon after I moved banks, Wachovia decided to take over the backend themselves. As part of that takeover, they decided that there would be no online access unless you had a Wachovia deposit account. So now I had no good way to pay my bill except via BillPay, which I'd been using anyway. So I used it again. And it was rejected. So I called both banks to figure out why. I never got a straight answer, but it's probably because the SECU sent the payment to BoA, who no longer dealt with the account. They suggested that I set up a new BillPay payee to send a physical check, which I did, and then didn't think about it for a week or so. Turns out that the SECU decided to convert that transaction to an electronic transaction, which, unsurprisingly, was rejected. I had a stern talking-to with them, but ended up having to once again courier cashier's checks between banks. Fortunately, I was paying the account off, so I don't have to deal with that again. That's really the only issue I've had with the new bank. Everything else, other BillPays included, seems to be working great.

With all of this change, I decided to switch accounting programs, though, and bought Moneydance. It's $30, which is the same price as Quicken Basic (I don't feel like finding out what's different between all 37 versions of Quicken at the moment), and $10 cheaper than MS Money. And it's written for Windows, MacOSX, and Linux. (In reality, it's a Java app, so it ought to run anywhere.) I was far from a Quicken power user, but, so far, I really like Moneydance. It supports OFX (that is, online transactions) and BillPay directly from the application. Both, obviously, require support from your bank. SECU doesn't support BillPay from the application, which is too bad. The reason I bring it up is because someone (Dan, maybe?) expressed a rhetorical question as to its capabilities, which I would be happy to help answer. It does have a free trial, but you can only enter something like 10 transactions, which makes it kind of hard to test. If you have any inclination towards getting it but have been on the fence, I have nothing bad to say about it. (Which is not to say that it's totally bug free, but I've not seen anything bad, other than a consistent crash that had to do with a Java/video-card-driver issue that was fixed via a Java tweak.) If anyone would like me to try anything or give a specific feature review, let me know.

Phew. That was long-winded for something that no one cares about.
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Bitt Faulk

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#294673 - 05/07/2007 02:49 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Quote:
Phew. That was long-winded for something that no one cares about.

But I did find it an interesting read, so thanks. I recently switched banks (consolidating accounts with my fiancee). I've kept my old account open though, in large part because I wanted to make sure that no bills were due on it (though I never do automatic bill payments, anyway), and that direct deposit from work didn't fall through the cracks -- and good thing, too. Like your experience, my direct deposit went to my old bank, when I wasn't expecting it, but since I hadn't closed my account, yet, it was no big deal.

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#294674 - 05/07/2007 14:26 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
bbowman
enthusiast

Registered: 12/05/2002
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia, USA
I've been using the Ameriprise (formerly called the american express) bank. It is online only, there are no branches, but the website is fully functional on linux firefox. In order to make deposits, you mail in the checks (no stamp required) and they are deposited rather quickly. ATM stops have not been costng me anything. They had a contract with the ATMs in the 7-11's so the locations have been pretty convenient for me. No real problems with them except that for a long time, the ATM cards did not work outside of the country. It wasn't a big issue for me since I keep money in multiple banks just out of personal preference.

Anyway, thoguht I'd mentiion it - Ameriprise seems to be overlooked by a lot of people.
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Brent
RioCar MK][a 20GB+80GB
'96 Saab 900s (Not any more)
Still looking for a good way to install in a 2010 BMW 3 series with iDrive/NAV

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#294675 - 11/09/2007 18:38 Re: Online banks [Re: wfaulk]
RobotCaleb
pooh-bah

Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
Jumping on this rather late, but I'm going through the process of setting up an account with USAA and I came across this text, which, although late, still matches your inquiry.

Quote:
USAA FEDERAL SAVINGS BANK

Service Fee Schedule

Effective July 1, 2006

ATM (Automated Teller Machine) Service Fee No fee at USAA Bank ATMs. No charge for the first ten ATM withdrawals from non-USAA ATMs per monthly statement cycle; additional withdrawals are $2 each. The owner of the ATM may charge additional fees known as surcharges. (ATM surcharge rebates are not available for the monthly statement cycle in which an account is closed.) You’ll receive automatic refunds up to $15 for ATM surcharges incurred per account, per statement cycle. Receive .5% rebate of total purchases made with the USAA Debit MasterCard® when you choose the "credit" key at purchase. Account features and pricing are subject to change.

USAA Check and Cash Card Transactions
No charge at merchant locations
Non-Sufficient Funds (NSF) Fee .......................... $ 25.00* The fee applies to overdrafts created by check, in person withdrawal, ATM withdrawal or other electronic means. No fee if you use Overdraft Protection
Excessive Savings Transactions per transaction.......$ 5.00
Collection Fee NSF checks drawn on another institution .............. $ 15.00
Foreign items ....................................................... $ 20.00
Chargeback Fee .................................................. $ 5.00 NSF Item deposited into account
Stop-Pay Fee ...................................................... $ 25.00* ACH & Check
Official Check Fee ............................................... $ 5.00
Money Order Fee ................................................ $1.00
Research Fee per hour ......................................... $ 15.00 One hour minimum
Statement Copy ................................................... $ 10.00
Photocopy Fee per item ........................................ $ 5.00
Traveler’s Check Fee
One Signature .................................. 1% of total purchase
Dual Signature .............................. 1.5% of total purchase
Gift Check ........................................................... $ 2.50
Expedited Mail Fee ............................................ $ 8.00
Outgoing Wire Transfer Fee**
Domestic ............................................................ $ 20.00
International ........................................................ $ 35.00
**No fee for incoming wire transfers.
Copy of Checks Returned with Statements No fee
*These fees increase to $29.00 effective August 1, 2006.

Savings Accounts That Pay You Back

At USAA Federal Savings Bank, you have a choice of savings accounts with no monthly service fees, ten free non-USAA ATM withdrawals per month, and automatic refunds for fees other banks charge for using their ATMs.

USAA Savings

Earn higher rates as your balance increases with the USAA Savings Account or the USAA Performance First Index Account. With both accounts you’ll enjoy unlimited debits:

•USAA loan payments
•ATM withdrawals
•Teller withdrawals (walk-in or drive-through)
•Telephone requests for check payable to member
USAA Federal Savings Bank is required by Regulation D from the Federal Reserve Bank to monitor the number of transactions on a savings account and take action when excessive transactions occur. The bank could be fined if action is not taken. Due to this requirement, there is a limit of six (6) debit transactions per month for the following transactions (three of which can be a combination of checks or debit card purchases):

•Checks (issued by customer) or debit/ATM card purchases
•Telephone transfers
•Internet transfers
•Wire transfers
•Credit card payments
•Investment Management Company transfers
•Property and Casualty Insurance payments
•ACH (Automated Clearing House) debits
•Preauthorized or automatic funds transfer (internal or external)
•Overdraft Advance Transfer Out (OD from savings)

The first time more than 6 transactions per month are reported, the Account Holder will be notified. The second occurrence, of more than 6 transactions per month, in a 12 month period, will result in an additional notice as well as a $5 fee per transaction over the first 6 for that month. After the third occasion in a 12-month period, the Account Holder will be notified, the account will be charged a $5 fee per transaction over the first 6 for that month, and the account will be converted into a checking account.

FDIC INSURED

EQUAL HOUSING LENDER

USAA Federal Savings Bank
1-800-832-3724
(210) 456-8040
usaa.com

80347-0606

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#294676 - 11/09/2007 19:18 Re: Online banks [Re: RobotCaleb]
Tim
veteran

Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1529
Loc: Arizona
Isn't USAA exclusively for the military, retired military, or dependants (if they used it before they became ineligible (age 18 or after graduation from school/25))? I know I am no longer eligible for USAA insurance because I never got it when I had the chance (as a dependant).

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#294677 - 11/09/2007 19:27 Re: Online banks [Re: Tim]
RobotCaleb
pooh-bah

Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
Right.

However
Quote:
For many years, while USAA did not market to anyone outside its niche, they would open bank accounts for qualified customers requesting USAA's services. In July 2006 USAA chose to further focus on its target market and will only extend new banking services to people eligible to purchase P&C insurance from USAA. They continue to make an exception for residents of Bexar County (San Antonio, TX) and those people that already have a banking relationship with USAA.
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USAA )

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#294678 - 11/09/2007 19:42 Re: Online banks [Re: Tim]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
Isn't USAA exclusively for the military, retired military, or dependants (if they used it before they became ineligible (age 18 or after graduation from school/25))? I know I am no longer eligible for USAA insurance because I never got it when I had the chance (as a dependant).

I think you're wrong. While USAA doesn't detail exactly who's eligible, it says "children of USAA members", so if your parents were in the military and they have a USAA account, you should still be eligible, regardless of your age. However, I do notice that veterans do not qualify, unless you "recently" left the service, whatever "recently" means.
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Bitt Faulk

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