Hi all.

I know many of you are keen photographers, and I am seeking advice from such. I find myself in need of a new digital camera, and have decided I want to launch myself headlong into the universe of joy that is DSLR, rather than the integrated type of camera I have had until now.

My previous decent camera (a Fuji S9500) has suddenly had a mild stroke, and the mode select wheel no longer functions. While I can probably fix it, I've never been completely satisfied with the results from the thing, and am now thinking of either a Canon 400D or a Nikon D80. Obviously I would like to go for a much higher end camera, but I'm not made of money, dammit!

My question is the obvious one, which is better? I have read all the reviews I can find, and have no strong feelings one way or the other. Both seem very similar in most respects, both are good cameras, and as I have no investment in lenses yet there is no particular reason to go down one path or the other. I am leaning slightly more towards the Nikon than the Canon, despite the slightly higher cost, mainly because of fairly small things like greater battery life.

They're only 10 megapixel, but for the type of use they will get that should be more than enough for the time being. If I need higher res pictures I always have my 1952 Graphlex Crown Graphic 4x5 inch press camera. I can scan the negatives to get 200+ megapixels, which really IS enough for almost any purposes. Plus it's so solid you can beat off muggers with it, then photograph the remains!

Any thoughts, comments, or advice welcome. It may even be acted upon

pca

I think a concise summary of the differences between the D80 and 400D would be:

- the Nikon has more and better thought out features
- the Canon still just about has the edge on image quality, but only just

That is my impression from reading all the reviews, owner comments etc

I don't own either camera (I've still got my Canon 10D).

Well, I have a 400D. I have recently upgraded to a 40D, purely for the bigger grip, the images they both produce are very similar.

The 400D is a great camera, it has some really nice features like sensor cleaning and it feels well made. If you can get a kit with the new 18-55mm IS lens it is a great improvement over the standard kit lens (18-55 no IS), one came with my 40D and I had planned to sell it, but I think I'm going to keep it as it seems sharper than other lenses I have that cover that range.

I have to make the same decision as you a few years ago, Nikon or Canon? In the end I went down to Jessops and held each camera in my hand and went with the one that felt better. Maybe not the best way to make a choice but the cameras are so close these days it was the only way I could stop my self buying both

Cheers

Cris.

My advice is to do just that -- go down to the store and play with the cameras for a while. If you have a good camera shop around that will let you rent the cameras for a weekend, and apply the rental price towards a purchase, even better.

When I bought my first SLR, the choice between Canon and Nikon was made that way. Nikon won out because I felt their controls were more intuitive.

Yep. Another Canon (D60/20D/40D) user here, and definitely go Nikon if you don't already have any Canon lenses. Nikon simply tries harder (like Avis!).

"only 10 megapixel" is a *good thing*.

Cheers

I wandered around a few camera shops yesterday and played with both the 400D and the D80. This resulted in me coming down on the Nikon side of things. It just feels better in my hand. Everything fits naturally under one finger or another, and it gives the impression of being rather more solidly build.

If I was going to put one in a model aircraft I'd go for the Canon, because it's both lighter and cheaper, but for handheld use the Nikon is the winner. Accordingly I have ordered one, which hopefully may get here tomorrow.

Oddly enough, the cheapest place I could find it was Dixons, which for UK people would come as a surprise. They're not normally noted for their competitive pricing structure With an online discount code that gave £20 off, plus the current Nikon cashback rebate of £50, the camera with an 18-135mm lens came to £588. Not too bad, all things considered.

Thanks to all for the advice.

pca

Well.

The good news: The D80 is a very nice camera indeed. Feels nice, take great photos, and makes a very satisfying noise when the shutter fires

The bad news: Dixons are a bunch of scum.

Now, I can hear you saying, "Big surprise THERE!", but I didn't realise quite how bad they were. I was sucked in for the good price, but stayed for the bad service

Here's what happened:

Wednesday 2/1/08 Order D80 from dixons online @ £658 with a £20 discount code. Total £638. Nikon have a £50 cashback offer expiring on 7/1/08, so I'll get the thing for £588 all in. Wonderful.

Friday 4/1/08 Receive tracking number for parcel, told it will be with me in 5 days or so.

Wednesday 9/1/08 Courier turns up, hands me a parcel. Obviously not camera as it's much too small. I get quite a lot of parcels, and assume it's just one I had forgotten about. I sign for it.

The label has my name and address on it along with a bar code. Nothing else. No sign of the source. I open it, and find one (1) Philips GoGear MP3 player, a fairly basic piece of crap I certainly wasn't expecting. There is absolutely nothing else, no indication of who its from or why.

After a couple of minutes of going "What the hell is this in aid of", I finally think to check the tracking code. Sure enough, it's the same as the one that Dixons gave me for the camera.

Now, while it's possible that it could be an innocent error, it's unlikely as the camera is both blatantly different from this vac-packed toy I'm holding, and quite expensive. So the likelyhood is someone deliberately substituted one for the other. Again, while it's possible that this could have been due to the courier, it seems unlikely. It's another item that Dixons stocked, it came in a bag which certainly couldn't have held the camera and therefore most likely came from the warehouse, and the substitution would have been easier there in any case.

So, I called Dixons, explained I was rather perturbed, and politely enquired if they could help ease my perturbation. I was told that they were sorry, it was probably a warehouse error, and they couldn't replace it as they had no more D80s in stock. Not only that, they couldn't tell me when they WOULD have any more. A refund could be arranged, but there were forms that needed to be filled in, and they would send them immediately. When the forms arrived, I could deal with them, send them back, they would arrange to retrieve the wrong item, and eventually I would get a refund. Not really what I wanted to hear.

So, here I am, stuck with an expensive absence of camera. If I wanted an absence of camera I could have arranged one for a lot less money, considerably faster

I checked around and found that the next best price was at Currys. Not too surprising, as essentially they're the same company. None in stock on the web page, but I found that there were a few in shops around the country. As it happened, one of these was, somewhat remarkably, only about 8 miles away. After some hard thought, I decided that the only choices were to continue with an absence of camera, or go and buy this one.

So, I drove over and talked to the guy in the shop. He was sympathetic, seemed unsurprised when I explained what had happened (not very complimentary about his brothers in retail) and happily sold me the D80 kit he had for a mere £679.99, which as the clever amongst you will quickly work out was £91.99 more than the price I SHOULD have ended up paying. £41.99 difference in base price, no discount, and no Nikon cashback as I'd missed the cutoff date. He said he was unable to lower the price or match the Dixons one. Damn.

Anyway, at least I had the bloody thing. It works very well, and as I have said I'm so far very pleased with it.

When I got back I wrote a long email to Dixons customer disservices, explaining the situation, expressing my dissatisfaction with the whole affair, and asking for three things: An apology, a refund, and the difference between the price I had originally paid and the price I ACTUALLY had to pay to get a camera.

Late last night, the 11th, I received a response which essentially told me politely to get bent. They did apologise, but said that they couldn't refund me until the forms were dealt with. These had been dispatched, apparently by being stapled to a snail going in roughly the correct direction, and should be with me in 5 to 7 days. The missing camera was blamed on "unpredictable problems in delivery", and in future transactions they would "suggest that you refuse delivery to ensure more immediate action is taken". No compensation for the difference in price would be offered, and they were forwarding a copy of the letter to the courier so they could look into offering me a refund on the shipping.

The end result is that they seem to be blaming the courier. I doubt I'll get a refund on shipping as the shipping was free. I don't know if I can do anything else at this point but tell everyone I meet "Don't buy from Dixons", so that's what I'm doing. I certainly won't in future.

Nice camera, though.

pca

Hey Patrick, did you pay by credit card?

If yes, you're sorted. One call and a chargeback later its no longer a problem.

If no... I guess thats lesson number two.

Call your credit card company and demand they issue a chargeback for a fraudulent order. It's clear you were not shipped what you ordered and the feedback you're getting from the retailer is anything but helpful. In fact they seem to be making you jump through hoops.

One of those things usually happens in this case. You either get the money back from the credit card company quite quickly, and/or the credit card company's inquiry makes the retailer jump to attention very quickly and issue a refund themselves.

You may have to sign an affidavit for the CC company swearing to your claim.

Seems pretty clear someone in their warehouse has a shiny new D80 and their inventory system is missing a lowly MP3 player. I'm surprised they didn't just stick a brick in the box.

[edit: don't let spellcheckers automatically correct everything. ]

I bought my ixus from a dixons store. While we were having lunch in town i thought i'd have a look. Glad i did as when i fired it up there was someone else's splash screen asking to ring a number if the camera was found! I took it back and explained what had happened, and the store manager just shrugged his shoulders and said someone must have brought it back as faulty and they just put it back into stock. He replaced it, offered me 50 quid off and a free bag.

What about the new Olympus models? I'm looking at either a Nikon D40X or Olympus E510. Haven't really got the time to go shopping, particularly as my nearest store is likely to be Dixons or another of their cruddy group (PCW, or Currys).

I know the Nikon is supposed to be the best in it's range but I've always had soft spot for Olympus (still got 2 x OM4Ti & loads of lenses)

Nikon may be announcing a successor, thought perhaps not replacement, to/for the D40x at PMA in February.

If you're in the market now and don't need something immediately for professional reasons, you should definitely wait at least until the announcements.

Olympus vs. Nikon...

Nikon and Canon jointly have most of the market share. That has several real effects. You're more likely to have a friend with one whose equipment you can borrow. You're more likely to find used gear. Olympus, on the other hand, tosses in a variety of features that Nikon doesn't have (anti-shake for any lens, LiveView, etc.).

Keep in mind that your older Olympus lenses and whatnot are incompatible with the new Olympus bodies. The name on the camera is "Olympus", but it really should be "4/3 system", since that's the set of compatible lenses that you can buy. That notably includes several clever and pricey Leica-branded lenses.

Ultimately, you should go hold the cameras in your hands and play with them in person. Like Patrick, you may decide that the feel of the thing as you hold it makes a difference.

You're right, that's how I settled on my EOS 600 & RT as my AF SLRs. They were both great, I'd have probably done better selling the OMs and keeping the EOSs