Does anyone have any experience of sound recording?

I need to record speeches etc... at weddings and other events, in large rooms and even churches. It needs to be a solution that I can set going and have wide enough pickup for me not having to worry about moving it all the time, use AA batteries and record upto 2 hours in one go without me thinking about it.

I have been looking at units like this but that seems to be a very expensive solution for what to me seems to be quite a simple problem.

Any hints or tips on getting a cheaper/better solution going. I already have a Rode VideoMic which I have found is quite good for directional stuff.

Cheers

Cris.

The Zoom H4 is very popular these days.

You're not clear on some important points...

Are you simply sitting in the audience and trying to record the sound in the room? Are you going to place a mic directly in front of or directly upon the person doing the speaking? Will the person be speaking through an amplified system, and if so, will you have access to the sound feed from that system?

The Zoom unit can handle most of those situations through its input plug, too.

Of course, these days, an iPhone with an audio recorder app, or an iPod with a TuneTalk plugged in will do that stuff as well. I can personally attest that both of those solutions work surprisingly well and provide surprisingly high quality for what they are.

Or even a laptop with a mic plugged into its input jack. There, you've got the option of using a pretty high quality microphone if you want.

I am trying to differentiate my product from every other photographer in my area, by adding sound bytes and video clips captured during the day in my presentation to my client (ie the now traditional DVD slideshow). As I will be using my DSLR to capture the video clips and don't plan to carry any more gear than I need, audio captured along with the video will be useless to me.

I want to capture specific audio in the room, there maybe an amplified system but I will not have access to it. I will be moving around the room myself so can't pay much attention, but I could set it up in advance in a static position close to the source, on a table close by or even hanging off a lighting stand I may have set up in the room.

Hmmm Zoom's unit seems much better than what I was looking at before, better price too, but still very pricey for what it does ???

Cheers

Cris.

Re-reading your original post, the ipod/iphone solution won't work because you'll run out of battery before the two hours are up. A Laptop doesn't fit your size and AA battery requirements. So yeah, portable MP3 recorders like that Zoom unit are what you're after.

I did look at this, but decided early on I wouldn't be happy leaving it unattended. If a standalone device got nicked is one thing, but a whole chink of my life would get very difficult if my iPhone walked.

Cheers

Cris.

The Zoom unit is one of the more feature-laden devices in its class, so continuing to look around for other similar portable MP3 recorders should produce a variety of choices in a fairly wide price range.

Very good point.

I have found the Zoom H4n for £330 but that still feels very expensive. There has to be a cheaper way of doing it.

Why is it always the simplest ideas you have always turn out to be the most expensive

Recording time is important as I want to set it off recording and just leave it until the end and then collect as I leave, it has to be a no brain solution as I will have lots of other stuff going on at the time. At most events I am guessing there will be little moving around of the audio source I want to capture during the event, at least I hope not

Cheers

Cris.

lol
jk

I have an M-Audio Microtrack II that I've been using for a while. It doesn't use AA batteries, but it can be powered via USB, so you can use one of those add-on USB adapter batteries, or just plug it in. The audio quality from the little stereo mike it came with is very good. I can set it in a room somewhere and it picks up everything clearly, and as long as I have the levels set right, I don't get any clipping. Even better results can be had by buying a better microphone, but I haven't done that yet.

Thanks

I have a couple more options to look at now.

The M-Audio looks much cheaper, and looking at it I think I have used a previous version myself, that didn't have it's own microphone.

This video makes me want to by the Zoom. Hardware budget is near £0 at the moment, so I guess getting that will selling something else to get it.

How do you set your levels? Is it just finger in the air stuff or is there a quick method?

Cheers

Cris.

Yeah, I got mine for $199 when it was on sale a while back. I think they're around that price now at a lot of online retailers.

I usually set the levels by setting the microphone where it's going to stay, and then making the loudest noise I think will be made in the room at the closest I think it might be made, and adjust from there. It's not perfect, but I've become fairly good at picking the right levels and not getting clipping. :P I'm sure there's a better way to do it, I'm just too lazy to go through the trouble of looking it up.

Of course if you're recording a single source (actor, etc), it's a lot easier to set the levels; especially if you are using it with a lavalier mike.


EDIT: Oh, and I'm by no means any kind of expert, so you should probably ignore everything I've said. :P

I would take that video with the hugest pinch of salt if I were you. You have no idea what they might've done to the video in post. You need to try it out yourself 'in anger' before you spend a single penny.

If, for example, someone is giving a speech then you should mike them up with a decent lavalier mic. It will sound 'infinitely' better than something stuck to the recorder itself. Unless you want to them to hold it like a handheld mic (which is how products like the Nagra Ares-M are supposed to work). You should be able to get something like the M-Audio MicrotrackII and a half-decent lav like a Sennheiser ME-4 for less than £250 if you shop around.

You look at the signal on a decent meter and put a compressor in circuit. But you're probably not going to have the option, so either set the levels before you start recording to make sure you getting a non-distorted signal and hope they don't start shouting. Or, just leave it on auto and pray it doesn't 'pump' too much.

I really want to avoid getting into this situation, I want my client to be a little surprised I went to the trouble to do this, but at the same time I don't want to carry too much gear and spend too much time. I think having a little atmosphere of the room may even help the effect I am try to achieve.

The Zoom looks like I really good starting point, it even comes with a nice case so I can just throw it in my camera bag. I haven't been able to find anything to beat it at the price point, I just need to decide if it's worth the punt or not.

Cheers

Cris.

How are you going to stop all the young boys at the weddings wanting to play with something like the Zoom? As soon as you turn your back you'll have sticky cake covered hands all over it.

Valid point, but I think this would be true for any solution, luckily I am covered by a very good insurance policy when doing professional work.

Cheers

Cris.

What happens if you pick up someone making inappropriate suggestions involving the bride? (or groom, or bridesmaids for that matter!)

I guess that could come in handy if someone "forgets" to pay my bill

Cheers

Cris.

I'm sorry that'll just sound shit. You'll have no control over how much background noise (not atmos) makes it into the recording. Seriously, if that solution yielded satisfactory results don't you think everyone would do it that way? The likes of Sony and Sennheiser wouldn't sell any microphones!

Ummm clearly I don't know the answer to that, that's what I was asking for advice here.

I am after capturing very short sound bites just a few seconds long. I'm not doing video production and my style doesn't lend itself to altering the event in anyway so radio mics are just a no go to start with. If you watch a few slideshows over at stillmotion.ca you will get the idea (they are a video production outfit so their solution is way beyond my means).

Cheers

Cris.

Close micing 'is' the way to do it, hence my original post, I'm offering you my 'professional' opinion on the matter.

The length of the clips is inconsequential, in fact, short clips full of background noise are probably going to be more apparent. The only other option I could give you that might prove satisfactory is to take a feed from the PA, which can actually be quite simple and cheap to accomplish.

I would also say that recording the audio separate to the video is not normally recommended these days. It can be a time-consuming process to make sure that everything starts off in sync and, just as importantly, stays in sync during the whole recording. Unless you're going to clapper board at the beginning and end of scenes.

This won't be possible in most venues, and I won't have the time or gear space to mic people up myself. I suppose I am looking for best possible solution without needing to do these two things, I realise that no solution will be perfect in this set up.

Luckily I don't have to worry about video audio sync as the clips will be set to still images not video. There may be a little video thrown in, but the audio from that could be taken with my Rode Videomic which seems to do a pretty good job.

I could get the H4n pretty close to source, ie on the table or near the bride and groom at the front of the church. I guess I will have to experiment to see how that comes out.

Cheers

Cris.

Can't beat "audiophile" ears. The H4 totally sucks whilst also being better than an H4...

Could a shotgun mic placed (perhaps several feet away and concealed) be employed here, pointing it in the general direction of the activity to be recorded? It would at least to some extent filter out the room sound. I've seen them employed for interviews on talk shows several feet from the subject in place of a lavlier when the subject's clothes did not lend itself to miking up the subject directly and the resulting audio seemed almost as good as close mike techniques.

Stu

Just thought I would report back on progress I have made on this topic.

I used the zoom H4n for the first time at a wedding this last weekend, with the microphones set to 120 degrees and the mic volume to 85 I was able to place the unit down the front of the church and get a pretty good recording of the whole ceremony without anyone even knowing I was doing it.

It is a fantastic little device and will now become part of my wedding kit. So thanks Tony for the suggestion, it was bang on the money!

I am editing the whole thing to together at the moment, when it's done I'll post a link here so you can all see what I was trying to do.

Cheers

Cris.

Glad it worked so well for you!

I came to know the Zoom units through Filk; lots of people use them to record filk concerts and filk circles.